187 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

So... This means we aren't getting Lockbash or a Passive Spell for Mages to Open Locks?



I mean, Howe had a door locked by Magic.



Why can't we open doors 'with' Magic?

[Sylvius the Mad]

ErichHartmann wrote...

The anticipation of finding good loot is a lot more fun than very minor XP gains.   Non - combat XP gains work great when a game offers substantial alternatives.  New Vegas is a good example of rewarding players with using speech rather than violence to diffuse a situation.

People always seem to think that Obsidian/Black Isle/Troika games do this well, but the non-combat XP is almost always dialogue XP.

To be truly inclusive they'd also need significant XP arising from quest solutions that involved applied cunning (like setting traps, or planning an ambush) without relying on a charismatic personality.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Lockpicking and trap disarms are still rogue-only abilities. They're primarily based on cunning this time around (rather than requiring talent points, which I felt was a little unbalanced with the otherwise combat-focused talent tree structure), though certain magical effects from equipment can help.

I really liked that DAO required you to choose between combat effectiveness and non-combat utility.  That's a good balancing mechanism - one I specifically requested during DAO's development - and I was happy to see it used.

It's a shame to lose it.

Will there be any non-combat development paths in DA2 that require combat-related sacrifices (in the way that Lockpicking and Stealth did in DAO)?

[Darkhour]

I typically just brought Leliana back to a dungeon after I completed it to get the experience. 

What I did not like were situations in which you needed a rogue to get quest items which were in locked chests. That just doesn't seem right to me.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
The real prize from picking locks wasn't the loot.  It was the XP.

That's why you always farm a level after you play it. Or so I ended up terming it, when after my warrior + 3 mage behemoth cleared everything out.

[Jarek_Cousland]

Its funny how before Fallout:NV everybody said Obsidian sucked cause of KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol. Then suddenly NV comes out and now every RPG should be like how 'they' make it.



Yea sure the games CAN be fun, but usually the potential is wasted due to bugs, rushing, or just not being fun. Sorry but one game dont change my opinion on a company no matter how good it may be or how much I like it.





Non-combat xp should be divided up between speech, lockpick, and trap disarming. But since warriors and mages possibly wont be able to lockpick or disarm it makes it go to a stand still.



Oh well...

[In Exile]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
In past party-based games, I was okay with the "rogue in party" thing.  (Assuming they EFFING GAVE YOU A ROGUE NPC SOMEWHERE THAT DIDN'T SUCK.  Which I'm assuming won't be a problem here.)  What really got me in DA:O were the sections where you had no possibility of having a rogue party member (Ostagar, Arl Eamon's estate), but there were STILL LOCKED CHESTS.  WTF.  Due to that one love letter being inside Arl Eamon's estate in a locked chest, you could not finish that Correspondus Interruptus quest unless you were playing a rogue.  ARGH.

I'm pretty sure that was the point: rogue PCs should have some bonuses in-game. I liked that in DA:O, even if I never played a rogue PC.

[Elite Midget]

NV is good in the story part but Obsidian can't make a game engine worse crude and even failed when given a game engine by Bethesda. Once the bugs are fixed is when I go back to NV. Untill than I'll wait since the game isn't enjoyable at all right now.

[PsychoBlonde]

STOP JACKING MY THREAD TO TALK ABOUT NV.



On a side note, I kind of liked the "science" puzzles in Fallout 3, because they were actually puzzles and you could take your time to figure it out without it being a reflex test. Plus you could do novel stuff like take control of gun turrets or unlock safes or use robots.

[Boombox]

I'm fine with lockpicking being a rogue only ablilty but do I really have to switch though the party to open the chest with the rogue everytime? It gets kind of annoying. I wish it'll just open if I have a rogue in my current party. Ah well.

[Aermas]

Off Topic-ish -- I would like to see XP given when I talk my way out of fighting people, I hate when I feel like I need to constantly spill blood to gain in power.

[Lurklen]

Aermas wrote...

...snip, I hate when I feel like I need to constantly spill blood to gain in power.

 And in the game?  

 Seriously though I totally agree with you, I want to be rewarded for figureing out how to solve my problems with out planting three feet of steel in someones skull. Also I would love an option to open chests and doors besides lockpicking, with somekind of penelty of course.

[AlanC9]

Boombox wrote...

I'm fine with lockpicking being a rogue only ablilty but do I really have to switch though the party to open the chest with the rogue everytime? It gets kind of annoying. I wish it'll just open if I have a rogue in my current party. Ah well.

That's a damn good point. The rogues already say you should let them handle it if someone without enough skill clicks the locked container. Well, why don't they just go ahead and handle it after saying that?

[Ortaya Alevli]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
In past party-based games, I was okay with the "rogue in party" thing.  (Assuming they EFFING GAVE YOU A ROGUE NPC SOMEWHERE THAT DIDN'T SUCK.  Which I'm assuming won't be a problem here.)  What really got me in DA:O were the sections where you had no possibility of having a rogue party member (Ostagar, Arl Eamon's estate), but there were STILL LOCKED CHESTS.  WTF.  Due to that one love letter being inside Arl Eamon's estate in a locked chest, you could not finish that Correspondus Interruptus quest unless you were playing a rogue.  ARGH.

There are three chests in his estate, two locked and the third unlocked. The love letter is in the unlocked one. Just putting it out there.

[Wulfram]

Lockpicking being rogue only is just annoying.



If rogues need it to justify their presence in the party, then they're a rubbish class. If, like DA:O, pretty much everything in a locked chest is meaningless anyway, it just adds tedium.

[Jarek_Cousland]

Wulfram wrote...

Lockpicking being rogue only is just annoying.

If rogues need it to justify their presence in the party, then they're a rubbish class. If, like DA:O, pretty much everything in a locked chest is meaningless anyway, it just adds tedium.

Wrex...

[Selene Moonsong]

Lockpicking adds XP to the party, so the party does gain something. If bashing were included, it should include loss of XP as well as a chance of destroying contents, or at least a loss of XP based on the value of the destroyed object.



I think of the treasure contained in locked objects as valuable to the original owner and, most often, wil not contain anything that would be of any particular value to the party. Contents should be based on the scenario (location, ownership, etc).

[Wulfram]

Why should lockpicking be an expected part of the adventuring skillset anyway? Rogues nowadays are designed to play an equal part in combat anyway, so the niche protection of lockpicking only serves to limit player choice in companions.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

It kind of was annoying that only Rogues were able to get certain loot in parts of the game which required the main character to be a rogue. It's not so bad that I must have them around to do these things. But when my non-rogue characters can't open them it's kind of annoying.

[FedericoV]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Lockpicking and trap disarms are still rogue-only abilities. They're primarily based on cunning this time around (rather than requiring talent points, which I felt was a little unbalanced with the otherwise combat-focused talent tree structure), though certain magical effects from equipment can help.

Similar to Origins, party-member rogues can disarm traps and pop locks if your main character is not a rogue, and also similar, there are XP rewards for the party for doing so.

Good choice.

[Selene Moonsong]

Why should a character, other than a rogue with the appropriate skills and ablities, be able to safely open a locked object? Each character class has a specific role and skill sets within that role based on their training. The idea of a group of adventureers traveling together allows the party to accomplish all the necessary tasks from combat, to lock-picking, and the ability to cast spells.



Perhaps it would help if there were AI options that would allow the rogue in the party to atomatically step up and to attempt to open locks if you select a locked object, sort of like how it was done in Neverwinter Nights.

[Tinxa]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

In past party-based games, I was okay with the "rogue in party" thing.  (Assuming they EFFING GAVE YOU A ROGUE NPC SOMEWHERE THAT DIDN'T SUCK.  Which I'm assuming won't be a problem here.) 

This. I don't mind that only rogues can lockpick but I want every rogue companion to have decent lockpicking when you get them. In DAO If your PC isn't a rogue you only had Leliana. By the time you got Zevran it took alot to level up his lockpicking and there were chests that he cpildn't open so you were forced to bring Leliana along or go through the whole level again after you killed everything.
If in my second playthrough I want to have different NPCs in my party, it's pretty annoyning to have a rogue who can't lockpick

[Wulfram]

If you want to open a lock quietly and covertly, that should require a rogue, but I don't see why otherwise. In fact, for most of the locked chests you've probably killed the owner - or killed the guy who killed the owner - so you should be able to just use the key.



From a gameplay perspective, I don't see what it adds to the game to punish players for preferring other characters.

[crimzontearz]

Are we gonna get a clear benchmark like "you cannot pen these locks until you reach 30in cunning"?



Or is the attempt chance based and we can fail/succeed without a specific treshold?

[Selene Moonsong]

Tinxa wrote...

If in my second playthrough I want to have different NPCs in my party, it's pretty annoyning to have a rogue who can't lockpick

I can definately agree with this