108 réponses à ce sujet

[Soahfreako]

kylecouch wrote...

Every comic and book that comes out has Udina the "Councilor"....why exactly??? these are things you should avoid saying because it makes our choices seem pointless...you can't just say Anderson or Udina without a title? I mean what the frick man?

^This guy knows what's up.

[Soahfreako]

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

They got lazy with the books/comic. Lets hope they don't get lazy with ME3.

Not related to your post, but I can't believe someone's still using one of my signatures. lol

[TheGreyGhost119]

Soahfreako wrote...

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

They got lazy with the books/comic. Lets hope they don't get lazy with ME3.

Not related to your post, but I can't believe someone's still using one of my signatures. lol

It's a great signature.  I can't believe people gave it up so soon.

[Soahfreako]

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

They got lazy with the books/comic. Lets hope they don't get lazy with ME3.

Not related to your post, but I can't believe someone's still using one of my signatures. lol

It's a great signature.  I can't believe people gave it up so soon.

It's cuz of those two spammers that ruined my thread of awesomeness. They ruined the whole damn 'but the priiize...' joke to be honest. /minirant

[Stazro]

Moiaussi wrote...

Isn't 'default' effectively 'cannon?' I mean, if they do make movies, they will have to decide on an 'official' set of decisions.

This. If Bioware wants to use the franchise in the future they can't remain ambiguous about the fundamentals. You can call it "default" all you want, it is a canon. Perhaps less defined than in other franchises, but the more books or comics or games set in the ME-verse will be produced, the more facts need to be set.

[Bebbe777]

Udina bribed Bioware

[Dave of Canada]

Alocormin wrote...

It never made a lot of sense for Anderson to be councilor. I chose him, but he's a soldier.

And you're going to war where he has years of experience, that's probably the only reason that I choose him over Udina.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 18 novembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[Burningwolf]

Fire up a new game of Mass effect 2.

Do NOT import.....

Base decisions made as follow for a male shepard.

Council ...Dead

Wrex.......Dead

Ashley.....Alive

Udina.......Council

Anderson..Admiral



There is the basis for Udina being council..being Canon.Next question?

[GodWood]

Burningwolf wrote...
There is the basis for Udina being council..being Canon.Next question?

Wrong.
Those are the default choices chosen by Bioware for new players to the ME universe who have not played ME1.
Not canon.

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...

Isn't 'default' effectively 'cannon?' I mean, if they do make movies, they will have to decide on an 'official' set of decisions.

ME2 even treats the plot essentially as if the council was killed even if they weren't (by way of the Council's denial).

No.

Canon is 'it happened this way in the real story, you choices are wrong.' Default is 'if you had no involvement, this is how default Shepard would have handled things, but we make no claim that it supercedes your actions.'

Bioware and its writers have repeatedly denied there being a canon. Nothing has changed that.

[Dean_the_Young]

Elite Midget wrote...

Udina is either Counciler, if you picked him, or Andersan steps down and than Udina becomes Counciler.

The Comic/Novel doesn't contradict anything.

This was a fan theory made to supply an answer, but has yet to have any basis in the story. We've since heard (from people who have written to the writers asking this) that Retribution was written from the assumption that Udina was chosen, as if Anderson were chosen he would not have quit and been able to do Retribution.

Retribution, and by extension the comic, aren't retcons.

[Stazro]

In the Star Wars Universe it is assumed that Revan was a male lightside character, but that doesn't make playing anything other "wrong" or "pointless". In KotoR 2 you even can retroactively change Revan's personality, although there is only one official version, which forms the base of all future references to the events surrounding Revan.



In the ME-Universe there is a default without a claim that it supercedes any of my actions. Fine, it doesn't change the fact that none of my actions has any impact on the fundamentals of any further spinoff, while the "default" is and will always be the basis of all assumptions the writers make about the trilogy's story. Retribution was written from the assumption that Udina was chosen and so will any future products, as long as they don't allow an import. What you did in the game doesn't change anything in books, comics, movies. What exactly is the difference to Star Wars?

Call it canon or not, denying it's existence doesn't change the fact that there is one and it is growing with every product that isn't bound into the game import system.

They say it is no canon to make the players feel more special about their choices, make them think their choices have a real impact on the franchise and that's it.

It should become more clear if you imagine the trilogy as a unit. You as a player can only change what's inside that unit. Everything before, after or around it is based on the "default". Get over it, Udina as councilor is canon.

[Dean_the_Young]

So if Bioware says there isn't a canon, and the writers who wrote the material say it's not canon or a retcon...

Well, **** them. What do they know?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 18 novembre 2010 - 10:42 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Bioware says many things in the past which usually turned out as nothing more than plain PR stuff without any backup.

In this case it's easy to say now (especially after "Inquisition") that Udina IS canon choice for human councilor because Bioware decided to show all players who chosen Anderson middle finger with words "We known better what choices should be made"... hell entire ME 2 was one huge middle finger directed to ME 1 veterans who saved council so why they should care now if they will retcon players choices or not,

In matter of fact Drew Karpyshyn is now support writer for ME so he can say many things but he is not the one who pull main strings and if Bioware heads with Walters in front will decide to finally **** up every single paragon choices from ME 2 in ME 3 THEY WILL DO and all we players can do is sit and watch...

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 18 novembre 2010 - 11:18 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Bioware says many things in the past which usually turned out as nothing more than plain PR stuff without any backup.

I'd really like to hear any support that most things Bioware says are completely wrong.

In this case it's easy to say now (especially after "Inquisition") that Udina IS canon choice for human councilor because Bioware decided to show all players who chosen Anderson middle finger with words "We known better what choices should be made"...

Name one instance in the franchise where they've retconned your choice for the next game?

hell entire ME 2 was one huge middle finger directed to ME 1 veterans who saved council so why they should care now if they will retcon players choices or not,

The Council was a bunch of unhelpful, critical, non-supportive, disbelieving, self-interested aliens eager to downplay threats and not be involved in ME1, and that's exactly what they remained.

In matter of fact Drew Karpyshyn is now support writer for ME so he can say many things but he is not the one who pull main strings and if Bioware heads with Walters in front will decide to finally **** up every single paragon choices from ME 2 in ME 3 THEY WILL DO and all we players can do is sit and watch...

Oh, the i-ro-ny.

[Stazro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

So if Bioware says there isn't a canon, and the writers who wrote the material say it's not canon or a retcon...

Well, **** them. What do they know?

The default is gradually growing into a canon. Most decisions in the games have not been referenced to in any other publications. But some are and in future more will be. These references effect a "fixing", since all following writing will, for the sake of continuity, be consistent with them. These fixed points are canon. There is no fixed Shepard and no fixed council decision at this point (and may never be), so up to some point there is a justification to say: "There is no canon."
But Udina as Councillor has been fixed. It has become canon. Calling it continuing the default or something similar is sugarcoating it in order to emphasize on the "your choices matter"-marketing.

It is not a retcon. A retcon would imply that something which has been established earlier is changed retroactively. Someone's choice to select Anderson isn't retconned by the mention of a councillor Udina, just as a female darkside Revan wasn't retconned, when the canon version of events became known. I don't get why so many people resent the idea of a canon. Your choices in the games don't have less or more point, just because there is an official version of events or not.

Edit: To make my personal position more clear: There is no canon about Shepard's sex, looks, background, class, orientation (yet). But claiming there's no canon at all is absurd.

Modifié par Stazro, 18 novembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[Asheer_Khan]

...There is no canon about Shepard's sex, look, ...

With this part i would very slight argue because looking at all ME related official commercials you will NEVER see femShep but always Sheploo which is generally view as canon ME character (based at my observation of this board) and what sometimes lead to funny situations when someone is totally surprised that there IS actually option too play as female character (i saw on youtube couple such surprised posters).

[Legbiter]

He's a more interesting character than Anderson, warts and all.

[kraidy1117]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

...There is no canon about Shepard's sex, look, ...

With this part i would very slight argue because looking at all ME related official commercials you will NEVER see femShep but always Sheploo which is generally view as canon ME character (based at my observation of this board) and what sometimes lead to funny situations when someone is totally surprised that there IS actually option too play as female character (i saw on youtube couple such surprised posters).

That's advertising, Shepard's gender is never talked about outside the two main games. It's hidden so it does not conflict with peoples games.

[DarthCaine]

kylecouch wrote...

Every comic and book that comes out has Udina the "Councilor"....why exactly???

Because Anderson quit his political job in Retribution.

Drew made one mistake by stating Udina is councilor. It's just one single line

[MrFob]

Yes, it's just one single line in Retribution. However it's not a mistake but it was a deliberate choice by Karpyshyn. In an email, answering a fan (can be found somewhere in the depth of this forum) he explains that, given Andersons character, had he been a council member, there s no way, he would have just left to help Sanders. That's why he chose to base Retribution on the assumption that Udina is councilor.

IMO, I'd rather have had a slightly unbelievable action on Andersons part and kept the councilor issue ambiguous but that is how it was done.

About the cannon crap: who cares, really. We are talking one single line in a book here ... for now. We'll see how it all turns out. As long as the experience is fresh and ME3 is yet to come, I'd like them to keep as unspecific on player choices as possible, not to ruin the immersion. If they want to keep the franchise going on (and certainly hope they will), I wont hold it against them if they decide to base it on a specific plot line of the ME trilogy. I guess the more the universe expands, the harder it is gonna be to avoid it.

And as for "cannon" or "default", seriously, that's semantics, who gives a dam, what you call it .

[Sursion]

Didn't the new book/comic say Anderson stepped down? It would make sense considering how depressed he looked in ME2.

[HamsterExAstris]

mrsph wrote...

Udina rocks.

That's why.

Anderson thinks you don't deserve that volus avatar.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Anderson should be a squad member in Mass Effect 3 and dual wield grenade launchers.

[Sursion]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

Anderson should be a squad member in Mass Effect 3 and dual wield grenade launchers.

One of the Shadow Broker's videos shows Anderson kicking ass. Maybe it's a hint that he will be recruitable