70 réponses à ce sujet

[NamiraWilhelm]

Lol, a started reading the second bit and realized it was the same

Sounds like he was originally very Zaeed. Glad they went the other way

@Addai. What i said was hardly offensive

Modifié par NamiraWilhelm, 18 novembre 2010 - 04:11 .

[Apollo Starflare]

shepard_lives wrote...

Loghain is an exceptional character, one of the best I have ever seen in a videogame.

This. The problem for some is I think it's quite possible for someone to play the game through and not quite realise how much of an interesting character he is; you have to dig a bit to truly appreciate the subtleties of his character I find. For instance, a certain decision late on in the game.

Perhaps the most surprising thing about Loghain is discovering that some of his dialogue is really funny. I loved it.

Having played Mass Effect again recently I can't help but feel Saren (who shares some vague similarities in terms of role mostly) could have been as good as Loghain, but sadly isn't.

[Addai]

@Maria, I'm sure the writers have an affection for a lot of their characters. How could you not, when you put heart and soul into them? I know that he has said his favored ending is a Loghain redeemer one.

Gaider didn't actually write Loghain for the game, BTW. That was mostly Mary Kirby.

@Namira, ok, no offense taken and none meant!

Modifié par Addai67, 18 novembre 2010 - 04:18 .

[Persephone]

leonia42 wrote...

I'm not sure the word "villain" really suits him, honestly, but can't think of a better adjective. Well, maybe tragic hero works.

The word you are looking for is anti-hero. My favorite kind, as goody goody knights in shining armor have always bored me to tears.

[Maria13]

Persephone wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'm not sure the word "villain" really suits him, honestly, but can't think of a better adjective. Well, maybe tragic hero works.

The word you are looking for is anti-hero. My favorite kind, as goody goody knights in shining armor have always bored me to tears.

Alistair is not a goody, goody knight, especially when he's demanding Loggy's head.  He has his subtleties as well...

[Persephone]

Maria13 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'm not sure the word "villain" really suits him, honestly, but can't think of a better adjective. Well, maybe tragic hero works.

The word you are looking for is anti-hero. My favorite kind, as goody goody knights in shining armor have always bored me to tears.

Alistair is not a goody, goody knight, especially when he's demanding Loggy's head.  He has his subtleties as well...

I do not recall ever mentioning Alistair's name in that context. And him demanding Loghain's head is neither subtle nor one of his best moments or that mulri-faceted; it's good old revenge. IMO, anyway. Much as I adore Alistair, he's not all that complex or subtle. Tis one of his sweetest qualities that he always wears his heart on his sleeve.

[Addai]

Alistair turns the knight-in-shining-armor stereotype on its head in some ways, such as in his deference to the Warden and general self-deprecation. In terms of character appreciation, I don't see this as a contest at all. Both are Gaider characters (Loghain being heavily Gaider-influenced), both are compelling. GI obviously saw something in Loghain they wanted to recognize, probably the idea of making games less about black and white and more about character-driven conflicts.

In terms of the game interaction, I just see a lot of tragedy in the fact that Alistair is so much like his dad but Loghain never gets a chance to see it or vice versa, Alistair is not able to see past a certain POV about Ostagar and the road Loghain takes afterward.

Modifié par Addai67, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:37 .

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Alistair turns the knight-in-shining-armor stereotype on its head in some ways, such as in his deference to the Warden and general self-deprecation. In terms of character appreciation, I don't see this as a contest at all. Both are Gaider characters (Loghain being heavily Gaider-influenced), both are compelling. GI obviously saw something in Loghain they wanted to recognize, probably the idea of making games less about black and white and more about character-driven conflicts.

In terms of the game interaction, I just see a lot of tragedy in the fact that Alistair is so much like his dad but Loghain never gets a chance to see it or vice versa, Alistair is not able to see past a certain POV.

This. I actually rely on Alistair reminding ;Loghain of young Maric in my fic. Heavily. And wasn't this a GI Readers poll? My brain is all confuzzled from work. :innocent:

[Maria13]

Persephone wrote...

I do not recall ever mentioning Alistair's name in that context. And him demanding Loghain's head is neither subtle nor one of his best moments or that mulri-faceted; it's good old revenge. IMO, anyway. Much as I adore Alistair, he's not all that complex or subtle. Tis one of his sweetest qualities that he always wears his heart on his sleeve.

You are quite right, I inferred it from what you were saying and obviously drew the wrong conclusion, sorry about that.

I agree he wears his heart on his sleeve but my view is that it is quite a complex one, where love vies with a sense of duty, reasonableness with a yen for revenge and a desire for glory with not a little self-destructiveness, among other things. 

But of course, we're coming at this from different angles. Personally I find Loggy pretty flat and uninteresting, and yes, I have read the novels, but then I write Alistair FF while you write Loghain FF and I appreciate we are seeing different shadings and subtleties in their characters.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I am glad to see Loghain being recognized as an interesting and deep character that doesn't quite fit the norm in games, movies and other mediums in general.

I of course prefer Morrigan as a character, but in terms of impact on gaming in general, I think Loghain did that more than Morrigan, whose impact is, to me, more personal (at least for the moment, Morrigan is not yet finished and might hopefully have a larger impact).

I agree with Persephone, he is an anti-hero. But most anti-heroes are portrayed in a macho badass fashion, for the most part. Loghain, albeit badass in his own right, is more of a tragic anti-hero which is not that common.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:44 .

[Persephone]

Maria13 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I do not recall ever mentioning Alistair's name in that context. And him demanding Loghain's head is neither subtle nor one of his best moments or that mulri-faceted; it's good old revenge. IMO, anyway. Much as I adore Alistair, he's not all that complex or subtle. Tis one of his sweetest qualities that he always wears his heart on his sleeve.

You are quite right, I inferred it from what you were saying and obviously drew the wrong conclusion, sorry about that.

I agree he wears his heart on his sleeve but my view is that it is quite a complex one, where love vies with a sense of duty, reasonableness with a yen for revenge and a desire for glory with not a little self-destructiveness, among other things. 

But of course, we're coming at this from different angles. Personally I find Loggy pretty flat and uninteresting, and yes, I have read the novels, but then I write Alistair FF while you write Loghain FF and I appreciate we are seeing different shadings and subtleties in their characters.

No need to be sorry, Maria, it was a reasonable conclusion.

Very good points about how he views love. He surely surprised me when he tragically broke up with my CE. Didn't see that coming at all.

I'll have to read your Alistair FF. Personally, I must admit that I cannot write Alistair very well. Most would say that I cannot write Loghain all that well either, but he fascinates me to no end, my muse keeps pushing me. :happy:

[Maria13]

Thanks Persephone.



A lot of people whom I respect hold Loghain in high regard so I might just come round to him yet. I haven't even tried to write him... I admit.

[Addai]

Maria13 wrote...

But of course, we're coming at this from different angles. Personally I find Loggy pretty flat and uninteresting, and yes, I have read the novels, but then I write Alistair FF while you write Loghain FF and I appreciate we are seeing different shadings and subtleties in their characters.

I write both and consider it a win-win.    If nothing else, Loghain helps make the story of Ferelden what it is.  As Cauthrien says, without him there would be no Ferelden.  The fact that his path takes a different turn in Origins is all sauce for the goose in terms of drama.  Our strengths become our weaknesses in certain circumstances, and vice versa.

@Persephone, no it is a GI writers' choice, not reader poll.

BTW I was surprised to see that Geralt of Rivia was not in this list.  Maybe that is because he's not original to the game?

[Persephone]

Maria13 wrote...

Thanks Persephone.

A lot of people whom I respect hold Loghain in high regard so I might just come round to him yet. I haven't even tried to write him... I admit.

Just left a review for one of your stories. Oh Maker, how sad that was! 

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

But of course, we're coming at this from different angles. Personally I find Loggy pretty flat and uninteresting, and yes, I have read the novels, but then I write Alistair FF while you write Loghain FF and I appreciate we are seeing different shadings and subtleties in their characters.

I write both and consider it a win-win.    If nothing else, Loghain helps make the story of Ferelden what it is.  As Cauthrien says, without him there would be no Ferelden.  The fact that his path takes a different turn in Origins is all sauce for the goose in terms of drama.  Our strengths become our weaknesses in certain circumstances, and vice versa.

@Persephone, no it is a GI writers' choice, not reader poll.

BTW I was surprised to see that Geralt of Rivia was not in this list.  Maybe that is because he's not original to the game?

Ah, gotcha. And true, not seeing Geralt Of Rivia there surprised me too.

[Maria13]

Agreed on Geralt's absence. He is an awesome character, just shows that depth in a game character can come from some good background writing.

[inclemency]

The Reader's Choice Poll is still available to vote on in the GameInformer site, with both Loghein, Sheppard, and Geralt on it, among others. You can write in a name, as well.

  gameinformer: vote-for-your-favorite-characters-in-the-top-30-readers-choice-poll

Modifié par inclemency, 18 novembre 2010 - 06:26 .

[Shepard Lives]

Okay, why the hell is Kreia not on the list? Quite possibly the best-written female NPC of all time.

[Maria13]

shepard_lives wrote...

Okay, why the hell is Kreia not on the list? Quite possibly the best-written female NPC of all time.

Oh yes, I so agree, the sinister old lady entirely redeemed an otherwise pretty disappointing sequel...

@Inclemency, thanks for the heads up, I have cast my vote...

Modifié par Maria13, 20 novembre 2010 - 08:56 .

[alschemid]

Yay! Congratulations to Bioware and everyone who worked on Loghain, he turned out an amazing character, his dialogue very refreshing and voice over excellent. It is a pity we don't have more of him in game.... and just because I'm a fangirl: *Squeeeeeeeeeee*

[Beaner28]

If there's any flaw in DA:O's plot it's that they made it a little too easy to wanna kill Loghain. I can't really see any reason why anyone would want to spare his life other than just using a throw away play through to see what happens.

[casedawgz]

Nobody else found Geralt to be a wholly unlikeable character? Maybe it was just the games portrayal of women as a whole, but I found him to be highly sleazy.

[Addai]

Beaner28 wrote...

If there's any flaw in DA:O's plot it's that they made it a little too easy to wanna kill Loghain. I can't really see any reason why anyone would want to spare his life other than just using a throw away play through to see what happens.

It would have been nice to hear more about the Orlesian occupation from someone besides him.  Fereldans seem remarkably unconcerned about Orlais less than a generation after ending 70 years of a brutal occupation.

[Maeves_Child]

I'm happy to see this. But I suppose no one is surprised that I'm happy to see Loghain get some recognition. I just wish he could have it, instead of this turning into a "squee at Alistair" thread. Sorry Ali fan-girls, but can't Loghain get a break?

[Addai]

casedawgz wrote...

Nobody else found Geralt to be a wholly unlikeable character? Maybe it was just the games portrayal of women as a whole, but I found him to be highly sleazy.

Geralt is only a lecher if the player makes him one.  The only "card" that's more or less mandatory is either Shani or Triss and those are more developed characters with which he has an actual relationship, rather than the other silly encounters.  So, he can be a dog, but doesn't have to be.