188 réponses à ce sujet

[Talogrungi]

Personal opinion only, here:

I'm a fan of both RPGs and shooters. A well-made game that incorporates the best elements of both comes close to my vision of an absolutely ideal single-player game.

With that in mind; I consider ME2 a significant improvement over ME1. The gameplay and shooter elements were much better and I didn't lament the loss of a couple of dull RPG elements that were always more hassle than fun.

I have high hopes for ME3. In my view, Bioware is going in a fantastic direction; stripping the tedium out of their RPGs while still maintaining the spirit of the genre.

[SpiderFan1217]

shepard_lives wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Um... OP, when did they announce a ME shooter?

They didn't, but they did release a trailer featuring two seconds of a space marine holding a gun. For many forumites, this is more than enough.

Oh, I know about the trailer. I was just wondering if I missed the announcement. So... I wonder what the OP will say if the trailer has nothing to do with ME?

[Arbiter156]

pesemist! that is how you spell it right?. anyway how do we know that this new game will be a generic shooter anyway? it hasnt even been announced yet!

[Onyx Jaguar]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Um... OP, when did they announce a ME shooter?

They didn't, but they did release a trailer featuring two seconds of a space marine holding a gun. For many forumites, this is more than enough.

Oh, I know about the trailer. I was just wondering if I missed the announcement. So... I wonder what the OP will say if the trailer has nothing to do with ME?

Usually that it will influence Bioware's other properties regardless if its successful

[SpiderFan1217]

I actually really want to see what Bioware could do with a FPS. I'm curious.

[Alienmorph]

Honestly I think that the force points of ME are the history, the characters and the range of choices that you can have ingame, and not the RPG elements of the game structure itself. Also... it's been a lot of time that BW said that the basic structure of ME3 will be very close to the ME2's with just a few improvements, like the mineral scan system cut off or made less boring.



Also... same universe doesn't mean same gameplay. Think about any other franchise who had more than just one main line of games.

[upsettingshorts]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Have you ever fired a gun, I am not expert yet I can hit a target easier in real life than I can at times in Mass Effect 1

Same.  It's not that hard, especially at the range most combat in Mass Effect is fought at.  What makes it difficult is the adrenaline and emotion of combat that simply can't be replicated.  Something even a biotic specialist with N7 credentials up for the job of Spectre would be extremely used to.  If Shepard doesn't already have nerves of steel by Eden Prime then both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council Spectres are idiots for considering him or her in the first place.

I'm a rank amateur and I'm capable of 65-75% success rates hitting clay pidgeons the size of DVDs flying 30 yards away at 40 MPH with a shotgun.  That's part of what made Shepard's inaccuracy so unbelievable to me.

But that's only part of the shooter dumbing down that took place in ME1-2.  How about some bullet physics?  More cover that isn't indestructible?  The list goes on...

I don't actually think one set of features is "dumber" than the other, I just enjoy co-opting the language of traditional RPG apologists who think shooters are for stupid people and twelve year olds.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:34 .

[Talogrungi]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Actually he can aim his gun properly but to become an expert in it he needs to invest time and experience, hence skill allocation. 

Shepard went through N7 training but having so many different expertise like Biotics who is to say every N7 soldier is a gun expert.

I always thought it interestingly odd that in ME1 a Shepard without the "Sniper Rifles" skill was completely unable to sight down the scope.

JUST PUT IT AGAINST YOUR FACE.

[SpiderFan1217]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Have you ever fired a gun, I am not expert yet I can hit a target easier in real life than I can at times in Mass Effect 1

Same.  It's not that hard, especially at the range most combat in Mass Effect is fought at.  What makes it difficult is the adrenaline and emotion of combat that simply can't be replicated.  Something even a biotic specialist with N7 credentials up for the job of Spectre would be extremely used to.  If Shepard doesn't already have nerves of steel by Eden Prime then both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council Spectres are idiots for considering him or her in the first place.

I'm a rank amateur and I'm capable of 65-75% success rates hitting clay pidgeons the size of DVDs flying 30 yards away at 40 MPH with a shotgun.  That's part of what made Shepard's inaccuracy so unbelievable to me.

But that's only part of the shooter dumbing down that took place in ME1-2.  How about some bullet physics?  Cover that isn't indestructible?  The list goes on...

I don't actually think one set of features is "dumber" than the other, I just enjoy co-opting the language of traditional RPG apologists who think shooters are for stupid people and twelve year olds.

You guys must not have leveled up the weapon abilities cause I had no problem with hitt targets.

[upsettingshorts]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
You guys must not have leveled up the weapon abilities cause I had no problem with hitt targets.

I didn't have a "problem" either, but the idea that I had to put the target in some big circle (at first) and hope to hit something within it was silly.  By the end of the game, of course, it worked fine - but the idea that Shepard would somehow discover how to shoot straight over the course of ME1 was absurd.   He should already know.

But like I said, that's just one of the issues - the most obvious one.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:36 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Plus it takes a bit of time to level that up and the game becomes easier to play rather than the difficulty being easier which makes the difficulty curve of the game look like a rusted X

[CRISIS1717]

Arbiter156 wrote...

pesemist! that is how you spell it right?. anyway how do we know that this new game will be a generic shooter anyway? it hasnt even been announced yet!

Yeah let's start making a shooter game which is new IP which could make a huge loss and instead of using the massively successful IP we currently have which will probably shift a lot of copies. 

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

LiamN7 wrote...

So its gonna turn into another me1 vs me2 thing. Great .
Let me sum up my feelings on this.
me1 pick up AR, aim at bad guy, pull trigger, bad guy dies.
me2 pick up AR, aim at bad guy, pull trigger , bad guy dies.

me3 pick up AR, aim at bad guy, burst into song, begin Bollywood dance number, everyone lives forever

[CRISIS1717]

LiamN7 wrote...

So its gonna turn into another me1 vs me2 thing. Great .
Let me sum up my feelings on this.
me1 pick up AR, aim at bad guy, pull trigger, bad guy dies.
me2 pick up AR, aim at bad guy, pull trigger , bad guy dies.

The difference is that's the entire game in ME2, you just summed it up in one sentence. That's what ME3 will be but simplified. 

[upsettingshorts]

LiamN7 wrote...
Let me sum up my feelings on this.
me1 pick up AR, aim at bad guy, pull trigger, bad guy dies.
me2 pick up AR, aim at bad guy, pull trigger , bad guy dies.

ME2 you got more damage out of a headshot.  In ME1 shooting a bad guy in the foot was just as deadly.  There was no subtlety to combat in ME1, you literally aimed and held down the trigger until your gun overheated.  There was no reward for precision.   Just aim at center mass - well, put the target within the big circle - then hold down the full auto trigger until it died.  Yeah... I'm gonna go with "dumbed down" there.

[SpiderFan1217]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
You guys must not have leveled up the weapon abilities cause I had no problem with hitt targets.

I didn't have a "problem" either, but the idea that I had to put the target in some big circle (at first) and hope to hit something within it was silly.  By the end of the game, of course, it worked fine - but the idea that Shepard would somehow discover how to shoot straight over the course of ME1 was absurd.   He should already know.

But like I said, that's just one of the issues - the most obvious one.

Funny... I don't think it's an issue. I say it's leveling up. Getting better over time. You know, RPG stuff.

[upsettingshorts]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
Funny... I don't think it's an issue. I say it's leveling up. Getting better over time. You know, RPG stuff.

It's a twitch game in which the protagonist is a decorated space marine.  It doesn't make sense and the "RPG stuff" doesn't work.  But in order to clumsily fit it in to appeal to the RPG crowd, they used dumb shooter mechanics.  Hence my original post in the thread.

There are plenty of ways to "level up" that don't make the shooter parts childishly simple or fail to make sense within the context of the story.  Those are the things that they kept in Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:45 .

[SpiderFan1217]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
Funny... I don't think it's an issue. I say it's leveling up. Getting better over time. You know, RPG stuff.

It's a twitch game in which the protagonist is a decorated space marine.  It doesn't make sense and the "RPG stuff" doesn't work.  But in order to clumsily fit it in to appeal to the RPG crowd, they used dumb shooter mechanics.  Hence my original post in the thread.

There are plenty of ways to "level up" that don't make the shooter parts childishly simple or fail to make sense within the context of the story.  Those are the things that they kept in Mass Effect 2.

Shepard has to start out bad or there's no point in leveling. If he can already hit the wings off a fly at a hundred yards why bother gettng better? And the shooting mechanics in ME were fine.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Its different when the base game plays the same as well GRAW except here you have to put quite a lot of time to feel comfortable IMO, when in something like GRAW you start out that way right away. Just because its an RPG element doesn't make it better it almost comes off as a substitute.

[Ghost_360]

Bioware makes great games.

They could turn Mass Effect into a virtual pet simulator and it would be an amazing game.

But they won't because Mass Effect is a shooter RPG and has been since day one.

If you honestly think that ME3 will just be another CoD style shooter with no depth then I suggest you leave now because your just going to make a fool of yourself.

I listened to the same s*** before ME2 came out about how Mass Effect was going to be ruined and you know what? ME2 was, with the possible expection of the story, better than ME1 in every single way. 

Modifié par Ghost_360, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[SpiderFan1217]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Its different when the base game plays the same as well GRAW except here you have to put quite a lot of time to feel comfortable IMO, when in something like GRAW you start out that way right away. Just because its an RPG element doesn't make it better it almost comes off as a substitute.

Is this towards me?
What's GRAW?

[Onyx Jaguar]

GRAW = Ghost Recon Advance Warfighter. Released in 2006 by Ubisoft

It plays exactly like Mass Effect except without the requisite RPG elements and Superpowers\\

EDIT:  The shooting portion anyway.  The game progression is extremely linear, so no exploration or talking or any of that.  Just what you would do on a mission. 

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:55 .

[Shenordak]

Experience points, leveling and skills don't make an RPG, the role-playing does. You could have the dialogue, choices and story of ME, while still having the gameplay of a shooter.

[SpiderFan1217]

Ghost_360 wrote...

Bioware makes great games.

They could turn Mass Effect into a virtual pet simulator and it would be an amazing game.

But they won't because Mass Effect is a shooter RPG and has been since day one.

If you honestly think that ME3 will just be another CoD style shooter with no depth then I suggest you leave now because your just going to make a fool of yourself.

CoD has depth. ME and DA have more, but to say games like Cod, GoW, and Halo have non is foolish IMO.