276 réponses à ce sujet

[Obsidian Gryphon]

* Howe - obviously. weasel

* Loghain - as obsessive and paranoid as Branka (in a way) when it came to Orlesians who chose to ignore how his own men were carrying out his orders. He knew he was wrong but he'd preferred to hide behind a shield of lies, denial and self-righteousness

* Isolde - a pox on her selfish desires. It was all about her and nobody else. Her voice is grating

* Eamon - apparently, he overlooked his wife's transgressions and his desire to elect Alistair to the throne is suspect

* Alistair - whiny idiot. He is what Morrigan calls him. Dim witted. I wished I could kick his butt all the way to the Fade when he threw a tantrum at the Landsmeet. I originally wanted Loghain's death (first playthrough) but rethink when Riordan chose to intervene. There had to be a reason and I was right to hesitate when Riordan revealed how the archdemon could be slained.

* the 2 obviously bad choices for kings in Orzamar

* Branka - obsessive nut case. After seeing and hearing Hespith, what happened to her entire clan, no way I'll support her

* Jarvia - another nut who bit off more than she could chew

* Vaughen (sp?) - I left him to rot. Hoepfully nobody remembered to feed him

* Howe's lackeys in Denerim at the Pearl - smirking weasels. How many had they killed or sent to the torturers?

[mrs_anomaly]

This thread has made me rethink my experience as the Warden lol!
-I absolutely cannot stand Isolde. I remember encountering her in game for the first time and, being a die hard fan of the Mass Effect series, I was burning for an epic Renegade moment with her along the lines of "Look missy I'm about to save your ass and wipe up all of your epically bad mistakes and messes, for free! So STFU, get the broom out of your ass or you can just go down with your bad choices and I'll rescue all of the civilians and you and your noble husband can roll around in demons all night long".  Also- her and her husband really upset me. They treated Alistair like trash and I'm a bona fide Alistair lover. I know everyone thought he was whiny, but he can lean on my shoulder, I'm his gf, so I'm there to listen

-All slaver characters which also mean all and anyone you meet in game involving the Tevinter Imperium. I hate slavery- I hate subjugation- all slavers must die and my Warden is happy to dish it out to them.

-Zatharian- I feel badly for him but come on- you cursed your whole tribe and generations due to your personal grief. Take it like a man and a father don't let everything around you become collateral damage because you can't rein in your mad desire for eternal revenge. You cursed your entire tribe, man, get a grip.

-The Chantry- in general. LOL- yeah it's an institution but like a lot of RL institutions it just rankles my sensibilities. Dispenser of intolerance, rigid thinking, and restricting of love more like it.

-Marjolaine- I never romanced Leliana, I always play a fem Warden but I'm not into my own bi romance, but I adore Leliana. Marjo just deserves a little taste of murder from my Warden for doing that to one of my best friends!

-Branka- Dear Branka: you left your genius behind back in your saner days now you need to die kthx. Just what the- she sacraficed everyone in her House to the Darkspawn and their perversions and ditched her husband in the process. She's just .  I definitely enjoy giving her what she needs every single time I finish running her sick gauntlet. Hell yes.

-Your two choices for Orzammer king. Almost all of the Dwarven Nobles disgust me and I also hate that when I go with a choice I'd prefer, Harrowmont, you get a less happy ending for Orzammer . Such is life I guess.

ETA: Anora: I don't think I'll ever allow her to be Queen. I like Alistair as King..although I'd prefer if we could just scrap Ferelden after our service and go elsewhere in anonymity together.

- Goldanna- Dear Goldanna, your brother is trying to reach out to you and is happy to have discovered he might have family. You are a jackass. I understand you have a hard life, lets help you out with that, but you were definitely named aptly you goldigging short sighted fool. We may be Wardens but your blood is kind of tainted with bitterness. Fortunately I'm there to help Alistair out when you ream him. Fortunately you have kids otherwise I'd make you disappear while Alistair wasn't looking  .

Modifié par mrs_anomaly, 02 janvier 2012 - 11:04 .

[Thiefy]

Anora - she's selfish, over values herself, under values other people, is a hypocrit and is stubborn to point where she would cut off her nose to spite her face.

Howe - self explanatory.

Alistair's sister - self explanatory.

Dwarven nobles - because they are useless as a whole, and to an extent cowards. For a race that prides itself or strength and ingenuity, it's cowardly to me that they would hire champions for their own fights and personal squabbles instead of manning up and taking care of things personally.

Duncan - Lol, i know. at least i did in my first playthrough as a cousland. he literally had to drag me away from my dying parents, and wouldn't let me search for my missing brother - i was honestly pissed at the guy. didn't care that he bit it a few hours later and hard a time sympathizing with Alistair on his death. sort of. she sympathize with a loss of a loved one but lessened that sympathy when it was something she disliked.

[Megaton_Hope]

I strongly dislike Lady Isolde. Her willingness to rush into evil rituals to protect her baby boy is broadly indicative of the flaw in her character; she is naive and self-centered, believing that wishing things would turn out all right will cause it to happen. She is more responsible for the massacre at Redcliffe than any other single character - including Loghain and Jowan, who are just more obviously and directly responsible. Not to mention that her morganatic marriage to a much older man has led to all the personal trauma in Alistair's life, and she couldn't own up to the fact that she'd murdered an entire village when Connor sent her to bring Bann Teagan back to the castle - a situation that could have ended both their lives easily.

Jowan is quite thoroughly despicable. He's a weak-willed, traitorous coward, dabbling in forbidden powers without considering the consequences for himself and the people around him. He schemes and lies and murders people, and then he WHINES about how it's not his fault. I can't believe that the Mage Warden thinks about him enough to put him on par with a Noble Warden's family, say. Jowan has wagered his soul and lost it before he even enters the story.

I'm also really unhappy with Harrowmont as an alternative to Bhelen. Although Bhelen really is a twisted freak, his willingness to seek help from the surface and arm the casteless against the Darkspawn is what Orzammar really needs. Isolating Orzammar and protecting the privileges of the upper castes will doom dwarven civilization even more surely than continuing to build all of their cities below ground will. (And let's face it, that's pretty dumb, for people who can build stone fortifications that are unassailable by surface standards. The dwarves could rule that puny peninsula.)

I really dislike Zathrian, as well. It's hard to believe that, with his fixation on protecting the elves, he didn't see on his own how his curse was going to kill (or infect) them all. Since living under the curse makes a person into a hulking, vicious monster. He should have broken the curse on his own without a Warden's involvement - it would have been best for everybody.

I'd say that I dislike Howe and Vaughan, but they're obviously not put there to like, so whatever.

[GSSAGE7]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Jowan is quite thoroughly despicable. He's a weak-willed, traitorous coward, dabbling in forbidden powers without considering the consequences for himself and the people around him. He schemes and lies and murders people, and then he WHINES about how it's not his fault. I can't believe that the Mage Warden thinks about him enough to put him on par with a Noble Warden's family, say. Jowan has wagered his soul and lost it before he even enters the story.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Granted, you're right on a few points, but Jowan hardly schemes. Hell, the only person his actions would directly kill is Eamon, and (for better or worse), you save him. Not to mention the fact that, rather than say how it isn't his fault, he is constantly trying to fix things, saying that it IS his fault, although his general incompetence keeps him from fixing things. I'm not going to say he's innocent, hell, he's guilty of everything you said in the first two sentences, but he's not nearly as bad as you make him out to be.

[Joy Divison]

Not enough people named Lloyd in this thread...

[yaw]

 Leliana: THE MAKER THE MAKER THE MAKER. I just can't stand it. And her accent is annoying. In the Sacred Ashes trailer she made my skin crawl. She's just too girly and cutesy. I think she's an interesting character with an interesting backstory (the lesbian love affair was a nice twist), but her personality makes me puke.

[Megaton_Hope]

GSSAGE7 wrote...
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Granted, you're right on a few points, but Jowan hardly schemes. Hell, the only person his actions would directly kill is Eamon, and (for better or worse), you save him. Not to mention the fact that, rather than say how it isn't his fault, he is constantly trying to fix things, saying that it IS his fault, although his general incompetence keeps him from fixing things. I'm not going to say he's innocent, hell, he's guilty of everything you said in the first two sentences, but he's not nearly as bad as you make him out to be.

Sure, directly...indirectly, the entire town of Redcliffe. (Why he would believe that poisoning Arl Eamon would fix things for anybody but him is beyond me; certainly it wouldn't help matters for Eamon.) Lily (who probably dies in Aeonar for wanting to help Jowan) and Irminric (who seems to have lost his mind, never mind lyrium withdrawal) don't fare too well, either. I grant that he's just not the sharpest nail in the box, apparently believing that destroying his phylactery and running away would solve becoming a blood mage, and vivisecting Isolde would solve destroying Redcliffe, etc.  It's just hard to wrap one's head around the way things work in Jowan's mind. If two wrongs didn't make a right, how about three? Four?

Whole storyline for him has sort of a Severus Snape quality to it. I guess I'm supposed to feel sorry for the chucklehead? Mostly he just makes me mad.

[gaurdian9sunshine]

 The people in the inn in Lothering after you killed the Loghain soilders. They get mad at you for getting rid of soldiers that wern't there to help them. 
Never like Goldana either. The first time I gave her gold, I was pissed. 

[jackofalltrades456]

Morrigan: I hate Morrigan with a fiery passion. Even when I agree with her, I still get a disapproval! I always head straight to the Mages circle so I can replace her with Wynne as a healer.

Bhelen: He's an arrogant, self-centered ******. He's like the Joesph Stalin of the Dwarves if you make him king.

That little girl from the Shale recruitment quest: Quite possibly the more annoying child I've ever heard. I wish there was an option to shut her up.

I actually think Goldanna is pretty hilarious. It was so unexpected when I first did Alistair's quest. XD

[pplr]

Whole storyline for him has sort of a Severus Snape quality to it. I guess I'm supposed to feel sorry for the chucklehead? Mostly he just makes me mad.

That isn't fair to Snape.  He was smarter than Jowan and knew he was playing the role of a triple agent.  Snape may not have been perfect but he did his job pretty well.

Both had personal issues but Snape handled his better.

Jowan knew the Arl was a decent guy and poisoned him anyway.  There wasn't any greater good there just Jowan being willing to be a hitman.  I can argue he should be forgiven for much-and don't blame him for trying to escape-but he did know something was wrong in a big way and went with it nonetheless.

Bhelen: He's an arrogant, self-centered ******. He's like the Joesph Stalin of the Dwarves if you make him king.

No, Bhelen is more like Castro.  Castro did things to improve Cuba even while he had political foes arrested and killed.

Stalin killed mass number of people beyond his political foes.  Both are bad but only one is a mass murderer
.

Modifié par pplr, 08 février 2012 - 11:19 .

[Redcoat]

Well, aside from characters like Howe and Vaughan that aren't supposed to be likeable...

Leliana: I don't think she's a bad person, but her whole chirrupy, oh-so-pious personality just grates on me, coming across instead as being a little bit detached from reality...

...so my Warden decided to detach her head from her body.

Oghren: Not so much in Origins, but in Awakening, where the writers decided to take the whole "drunken, surly dwarf" act and make that his entire character. Also, getting his approval high enough to finish his personal quest in annoyingly difficult.

Velanna: A murderous, hateful bigot whose racism allowed her to be easily duped into attacking the merchant caravans. Has not one redeeming feature I can think of. Not only that, comes across a shallow clone of Viconia from Baldur's Gate, right down to sharing the same VA. And like Viconia, I kept wanting to say to her, "Oh, shut up!"

[LyallxFidelis]

I used to have a more defined list of people that I disliked in the game... until I read the books. I began to understand why Loghain was the way he was and started feeling bad for the man. So, this is my list with explanations-

Harrowmont- He's a complete and utter fool. After the first few times of choosing him and seeing the endings, I started looking at what he was really standing for. The dwarves needed to be modernized. The casteless needed a chance to rise in the ranks. Harrowmont was against all of that, against outside help in reclaiming the Deep Roads, and against any change. Yes, Bhelen was terrible in what he did, but at least he knew something needed to change. I can't blame the man for being a typical Dwarven Politician.

Howe- So, he killed my family... I can deal with that. He sent an assassin after me, thank you very much. He encouraged Loghain to overthrow his daughter's rule, Anora is a horrible person anyway. I can live with all of that, but the one thing I couldn't live with was his victory slaughter in the Elven Alienage. Going into the orphanage and hearing the screams and cries of those children... it's just too much and that bastard should have been beaten close to death, healed, and then beaten again- repeatedly- until I felt like every child's life was avenged.

Wynne- Now, I know in the latest book: Asunder, she was a "hero" in a sort of messed up way, but I just can't stand her preachy attitude. Even in the book she acted like she was better than everyone else while being proved time and time again how flawed she was. Everything I did in the game, she questioned me. Interrogated me like I was a child. Yes, woman, you are old but that does not give you the right to treat me in such a way. Keep your opinions about my love life and what my duty is as a Warden to yourself, thank you very much.

Jowan- He irked me beyond belief. I kept thinking that if I tried hard enough, he would stop being such a coward and taking the easy way out of things. I sent him in the fade to try and regain his honor. I tried to set him free. I remember trying to help him escape the tower. But eventually I got so fed up with him not heeding my warnings, though I know it impossible since the limited persuasion dialogue and options, that I actually conspired against him in my last playthrough. Yes, I felt a little twinge of regret telling the First Enchanter what he was doing, but not enough for me to feel bad for the man. He was like the DA2 Anders of DA: O. Felt bad for him at first, but then just got completely irritated with the man.

I have many others, but they are mostly small roles among the NPC and I can't think of their names right at the moment.

[jillabender]

Apart from the obvious villains like Vaughan and Howe, the character who irritates me the most is Zathrian. To be fair, he does at least die with dignity if the Warden and the Lady of the Forest convince him to lift the curse. But good lord, what a self-righteous, thick-headed, arrogant **** he is! Whenever my Warden (who's busily trying to save *his* clan from *his* mistakes!) approaches him, and he responds in that surly tone with "Yes? Make it quick if you please," I want to slap him! It always bothers me that he never takes any responsibility for the death of Danyla, or for the other lives that were lost because of his selfish need for vengeance.

Sahrel, although not nearly as bad, also irritates me to no end. My Dalish Warden saw red when he tried to tell her that she was only recruited so that the Wardens could curry favour with the elves. To be fair, he does apologize for his rudeness, and he's obviously not thinking clearly after the recent death of his wife, so my Wardens tend to cut him a bit of slack; but his self-righteous, condescending manner still irks me.

I also agree with what's been said about Isolde. I'll admit that, although I find it horrifying that she put so many people at risk just to hide the fact that her son was a mage, I can still sympathize, at least a little bit, with her desperation to protect him. Still, there's no doubt that she's selfish, idiotic, willfully blind, and entitled in the worst way. I find myself wanting to cheer every time Teagan tells her off!

Modifié par jillabender, 27 juillet 2012 - 10:35 .

[BouncyFrag]

Joy Divison wrote...

Not enough people named Lloyd in this thread...

Agreed. Its always fun making him fight in the battle of which Sten 'approves.'

[BouncyFrag]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
"Heh, I'll leave you a wing...

One of the most epic Oghren moments.

Only topped by him passing out when the female warden and Leliana go have a threesome.
With some approval to boot.

Oghren at The Pearl is epically awesome, no matter who or what you do. Like, being a female and renting a female worker, and Oghren's "Whoops, wrong room".

And then when he starts ranting about Branka being a lesbian, and as he starts thinking about them rolling and licking.....yeah. Oghren's rather grotesque behavior in Origins was endearing, because there was more to it than drunken rantings, and could see other parts of Oghren show up in different places.

I didn't care too much for Oghren in Origins but liked him more in Awakenings. A wonderful subtle Oghrin moment from Awakenings is when releasing those prisoners from the lower regions of the Keep, you can make them pay for their freedom with the shirts from their backs. Oghren doesn't say a word but you do get a nice + in his approval. Oghren is always up for some nudity, anywhere he can get it.

[jillabender]

Hanz54321 wrote...

The only thing that kept me from letting the weres kill the Dalish was the fact that the werewolves were worse […] But honestly, my review of the entire Dalish chapter is that it is probably the best written one.  The story oriented player who pays attention can't help but be frustrated by all parties involved. It's  that frustration that means the player gives a hoot. It's giving a hoot that means good writing.

I agree, the whole "Nature of the Beast" storyline was very well written, and it's the fact that both the Dalish and the Werewolves are so frustrating to deal with that makes it so involving. It's refreshing to see a story that addresses the fact that victims of injustice aren't always saints, nor does having suffered an injustice automatically put one in the right.

Modifié par jillabender, 08 mai 2012 - 12:53 .

[Bhryaen]

A thread devoted to griping and complaining? I'm in!
In general order of repugnance:

1. Ser Cauthrien. I certainly enjoy the ability to behead her twice. As a sycophant her biggest insult to level at my chars ("Know your place!") is that they're not as big a sycophant as she is. She makes all Loghain's same rationalizations for his atrocities but a lot more clumsily, hardly masking her flagrant self-deception, yet willing to commit all the same atrocities (including murdering my chars) by the same ill-conceived excuses. Nothing worse than a callous powergrabber other than the callous powergrabber's chief lackey apologist. Alas she sounds a lot like numerous Loghain apologists online as well, but at least she ultimately ends up able to find it in herself to acknowledge Loghain’s treachery as such and endorse my chars’ stopping him. I still kill her, however, as her moment of seeming lucidity comes across more as a matter of a strong wind blowing her weather vane principles than genuine wisdom.

2. Loghain. Whatever his out-of-game story, his in-game story is so lame I want nothing beyond the minimum to do with either. Unlike most 2D villains, this one has been featured and voiced well enough that his weakness of character stands out like a sore thumb.  It's not clear if the writers intended to represent a more analyzable, emotional villain or if they themselves believed the hype they fed him, but they succeeded in making transparent the mediocre psychological disposition of someone able to commit any atrocity on behalf of their powergrabbiness through the manipulative medium of rationalizing. His big Landsmeet speechmaking dialogue goes the furthest in revealing how pathetically he'd been rationalizing his crimes to himself all along. If he hadn't actually tried to make an excuse for selling Ferelden elves (Denerim elves even) to slavers by claiming he needed to in order to fund his expensive Antivan assassination attempts against my character, I might even have been willing to consider his rationales potential half-truths. As it is, I never heard Loghain propose anything at Ostagar other than knee-jerk rejection of the idea of Orlesian help and witnessed how huge an army he ordered to be marched away from the Ostagar battlefield. I mean, fine, he suffered greatly from the Orlesians and even some Wardens in his backstory, but a grudge is his only motivation for the crimes he commits? A leader that remains impassive in seeking the wise move regardless of personal experience is impressive, not some whiny-for-life revenge freak. He and Zathrian should swap stories about passion and fatherhood.

The most offensive thing about Loghain for me isn’t even his atrocities, but the fact that he lacks remorse or humility despite them. That he pauses a moment before agreeing to waste money sending the Crows against my chars lends him no extra depth: he sent them, so whatever internal struggle that supposedly took place against such base villainy was lost. In a later cutscene he even sits there pouting like a sullen, spoiled child on the usurped throne when Howe (of all people) correctly counsels him to desist from civil war in order to, you know, stop the Blight. Drenched in lameness, Loghain disagrees. And he finally relents at Landsmeet only as a matter of a forced surrender, saying he now knows the Warden is stronger- not because he admits he was wrong or regrets anything. The closest we get to that is- if we spare his life- a very vague mention much later that he should be the one to perform an ultimate sacrifice because he has things to atone for… Oh, do you now? Care to elaborate? Especially with his attempt at a palace coup, he's little better than a human-sized Bhelen, except that Bhelen at least did seem to genuinely have the benefit of some Orzammarans in mind with his treacherous accession, while Loghain clearly only had his own personal shortcomings and ambitions in mind "for Ferelden."

3. Lord Braden. Vaughan's slap-happy cohort- the one who knocks your CE unconscious and thereby initiates a Warden’s life of killing. He dies first of the three “nobles,” preferably after a knockdown. Then the other brazen, clown-suited prig lackey. Then Vaughan.

4. Vaughan. A very well-voiced racist rapist... who considers elves trash... and thus wants sex with them... by force... Right... Dies every time, preferably with a decapitation... but I settle for a knifing in his cell for my non-CE characters... I disagree with others on the thread though: I believe the writing was quite good on him, as that sort of privileged villain does have the tendency to be shallow enough to speak in such lame ways and believe they can get away with anything. Hell, I have a boss who resorts to the same type of lame, predictable companyline-speak when he’s feeling his oats.

5. Doomsayers. They do nothing to make one despise them other than create dialogue pollution, but I despise them intensely nonetheless. The one in Lothering really needs a "conversation" choice for killing him. His wife was killed by the darkspawn and he ran away to save himself, so he's distraught- I get it. But there seems no way to get him to genuinely wise up, only run away, and even after he leaves and is no longer on the screen we're forced to endure yet another wail from where he'd been standing. At least let me pickpocket the idiot! The one in Redcliffe at least can be killed... and thus he is. This is just a continuation of my former tendency to kill doomsayers on the streets of the Central Core in Neverwinter... Curious how similar doomsayers sound to Chantry folk…

6. Lothering’s "Revered Mother" (plus major Chantry figures in general, including that annoyingly loud group in Denerim). Also not exactly a slavery endorser, mass murderer, torturer, or rapist, but I'd prefer to intimidate her every time- regardless of Sten- if only she didn't still get to patronize me when I do. Since I learned I can simply unlock Sten's cage without her entirely, I avoid her, but still. She's got the corpse gall to look my chars in the eye and try to shame them for not giving a donation to her coffers when the Chantry's fancy outfits, ridiculous Chantry-speak lifestyle, drug-addicted Templar thugs, and huge temples bespeak a different purpose for my silvers- plus the fact that it's the tavern and the non-Chantry Elder Mirium out on the street that are the ones actively and overtly providing medicine, food, and shelter for the homeless, not the Chantry (which just spews its absurdities at the desperate). If the Chantry were to just admit that their primary existence is to patrol mages, not hawk superstition, I might have more respect for them, but they insist on playing the mystical moralism game as well, so... That dwarf wants to open a Chantry temple in Orzammar? Fat chance, nugface.

7. Keili. While I'm on the subject- there seems no way to ever get her to stop with the self-loathing over being a mage- and not just self-loathing but wishing death on everyone else who’s a mage and everyone else in the Tower, including my rogues or warriors and the children. My own Tower mages in the Origin repeatedly tell her in every dialogical way to just go anesthetize herself with a Tranqilizing if she’s so bent on “curing” herself, but she still manages to be there in the Tower later, babbling like a doomsayer, preaching annihilation- even after the Tower is saved and everyone else is happy and relieved! If only I could help put her out of both of our misery.

8. Anora. I’ve wavered between reluctantly supporting and completely opposing her, but for sure she’s yet another powergrabby figure in the game, albeit not necessarily 100% villain and more complex a character. Still I don’t like being treated as a stepping stone by anyone, much less the daughter of Loghain himself. Her Bhelen-like ordering of Alistair’s execution doesn’t help my impression of her either, even if my Warden was able to at least persuade her to let Alistair go drink himself to death instead. And if Loghain were imprisoning her at Howe’s estate, why didn’t Cauthrien grab her too when she saw her? There is a way that you can proceed after “rescuing” her from her room in which she betrays you to Ser Cauthrien without having warned you not to mention her. The ease of her betrayals and sudden warmings up leave no room for genuine trust of such a scheming, self-important conniver, even though she does ultimately demonstrate an ability to be worked with. Then again I’m not a big fan of anyone so intent on taking power: the ones most eager to rule are usually the ones not the most fitting for it…

9. Isolde. She's really the epitome of the "weak woman" role that one can see in old movies where the actress's part is one of a hapless twit who screws up everything she touches due to her over-emotional nature while failing to maintain any effective self-criticism on the matter. It's an annoying enough role from the old movie genre, but the writers did a very good job writing that type into her NPC. Her accent doesn’t bother me in the least and is at least fairly consistent- just her hysterics-should-persuade-you approach to everything.

10. Ostagar quartermaster. Racist ******. You know he just reverts to the same crap when your elf turns her or his back... "Maybe you should be nicer to your servants" just doesn't quite cut it for me. I'd like to give him at least the same ribbing: "What are you doing dressed so sloppily yourself?! Straighten your belt, man. Tidy your shirt. I said 'tidy,' didn't I?  There’s enough of you sloppy humans running about here." Then we can do business- at a discount.

11. Nan. Aww, but she's just a cantankerous old lady. For speaking as racist as she does to the elves who work for her- and clearly she’s very used to it- I'd rather not suffer her threats to quit. "Consider yourself fired." But there is no anti-racist dialogue option (only anti-doghating dialogue options), nor any anti-racist comments from anywhere, leaving me with the impression that that sort of tripe is common in the Cousland household. Well, maybe when the Howes take it over, the new staff will get better treatment. Naw, probably about the same. Still, I can't say I disagree with her distaste for my obnoxious mabari.

12. Alistair. He started out my favorite companion, funny, self-deprecating, generally honorable and helpful- enough that I would choose the "I look forward to traveling with you" dialogue option every time... until I made a girl warden. With her I had a character I took farther than Lothering for once, and this is when he showed his dipstick side. After a full period of seemingly shy, inexperienced romantic dialogue setup, suddenly, beside a widening pool of drake blood in the cultists’ caves, he forcibly grappled my elf mage lady into a kiss and then wouldn't let her say “no” to it without dropping his approval rating by large quantities. What happened to that nice-guy shyness? What a bastard- father or no. "Here, I've got this nice rose that reminds me of you. Isn't it neat? Now we're gonna kiss! What? I'm being a pushy lunkhead? Biatch!!! Kiss my arse!" I feel the love. This put into perspective all the other emotional ultimatums the guy forces your character into- arrive in Redcliffe with him or he won't tell you himself that he's royal, be ingratiating for his "wisdom" when you wake from your first archdemon nightmare or you wake to disapproval points, and all culminating in his Landsmeet huff despite the counsel of a far more seasoned Warden, Riordan. If it’s a choice of king or drunken sot, why would I want a potential drunken sot on the throne? It's to the point that when I see him stuttering all bubbly in front of Goldanna's door about "Sista sista sista," I have no empathy, just wanting a dialogue choice of "Incest much?" It's awful to say of my fellow Warden, but he's the companion that I now seriously least like to meet up with- despite him alas being the first.

13. Dog. Noisy, unoriginal, uninteresting attention-leech... which has to pee on something everywhere it goes to be at its most effective- which isn't very. Sooo many dialogues and otherwise meaningful exchanges with other NPCs plagued by its incessant barking and slobbering in the background. I find none of the dialogues with that companion fun or funny (though Sten and Dog are supposedly funny in Fort Drakon somehow)- ultimately more the sort of thing Elvis seems to have endured by doing his song "Hounddog" on the “Ed Sullivan Show” with an actual hounddog- a gig that cost Elvis acclaim, though the hounddog probably got a few commercials afterward. None of my characters so far would have done so, but as a player I really must explore what happens if one kills the mabari in its Ostagar pen rather than muzzling it... I’d at least like to keep the muzzle for future use.

14. Leliana. Chantry girl... sort of. So the player must endure more Maker this and Andraste that on a regular basis, but yet she only recently adopted the whole religion bit after a life of bardic and roguish revelry. Can't she relent on the Makerisms at some point? I mean, there's no one around to impress with it, and even fewer are buying it. What true believer would relish all the religious paraphernalia that ups her approval rating anyway? She learns nothing from the Urn Guardian's counsel either. I always side with Morrigan in their banter. So hard to see romancing her as it is, but to play a guy enduring all the "ain't fancy finery neat" dialogue as well... “Nothing like the right pair of boots to wear at a salon!” What proportion of girls really talk and think like that? I've never met a one. Plus I can’t stand her introduction: she tries to get you not to kill Loghain’s thugs (which have been threatening people for simply looking at them the wrong way), but when you refuse, she attacks them herself! Since she can’t be killed or made unconscious in that fight (I've tried ample friendly fire) and she constantly targets the same soldier as your selected character is attacking, she constantly gets a chance to get the killing blow and steal your kill XP! And with that iron dagger she's not the one earning it, but if you attempt to kill the leader thug after refusing his begging, her quick dagger can usually be brandished faster than you, and bye-bye 85XP. “Come on, let him live.” “No.” “OK, then I’ll kill him…” "What???" Very irritating… and then she expects to be recruited!

15. Sandal. Cute fella. He was pretty amusing at first.
Sandal: "Enchantment?"
Warden: "Hehehe, you're funny."
Sandal: "Enchantment?"
Warden: "Hehe, yeah, I remember."
Sandal: "Enchantment?"
Warden: "Right. I actually used to like that."
Sandal: "Enchantment?"
Warden: "I did hear you the first time."
Sandal: "Enchantment?"
Warden: "Unfortunately."
Sandal: "Enchantment?"
Warden: "Enchanted knife in your gut?"
Sandal: "Enchantment!"
So glad I have the UniversalDye mod that includes a portable enchanter: absence from Sandal making my heart grow less disliking of him… slowly…

16. Zathrian. I don't see why people have trashed Kammen so much in this thread just for being a dweeb. So they can feel like a real man? The most raging dweebhood is in his "leader:" "What? You just raped and murdered my wife and child? Ohh, that is so- woh, now you got me mad. Tell you what I'm gonna do then. Killing you's too good for ya. Instead I'm gonna summon this powerful spirit that will give you all immortality, plus it'll make you all ferocious beasts so you can do even more damage to people, even my own people, turning them into more ferocious beasts like yourselves! Ha! Gotcha! How do ya like me now, huh?" Epic fail. I never look forward to meeting him, wishing for the ability to tell Tuvok to please think more logically.

17. Lloyd. I don't really despise him, just have no respect for him... and I don't lift a finger if he goes running off during the Redcliffe battle to fight zombies on his own... Nice to see Bella get out from under his grabby grasp too in the end and take charge of the tavern herself.

18. Beraht and Jarvia. Really just hated by my DC for their part in things, but they're still nasty sorts, and the feeling of intense need to remove them remains metagamingly on my DC's behalf.

19. Bhelen. He used to rate higher up (or lower down, as it were), but I can't seem to muster the same blanket dislike for him given his sincere marriage to my DC's casteless sis and what the endgame slides say of his seeming efforts on behalf of the casteless- even appearing to sacrifice every bit of his popularity in order to execute his pro-casteless decisions against the interests of the noble and warrior castes… However, offering freedom to the casteless only in exchange for military service doesn't exactly sound like freedom to me. And after all, he does try to have my DN executed in his bid for power. And what a smarmy, weaselly, duplicitous guy to have to deal with as well, taking the throne with that smug, childish attitude of royal entitlement and not even the decency to let Harrowmont (and good dwarves related to him like Baizyl) live to fight the darkspawn. Since they don't really develop his pro-casteless stance during the game itself, ultimately he just comes across as yet another petty powergrabber- 'bout it. Vartag with his attitude is a dick too, but the two of 'em come as a pair really, so I can’t single him out.

20. Trian. Insulting brat… Since I get blamed for it anyway, maybe I should try killing him myself at some point…

21. Harrowmont. Such a nice guy otherwise- at least if you help him and thus don’t have to smack down his bloodthirsty supporters on the streets of Orzammar- but those bloody end slides that speak of him being an ultra-traditionalist make it so hard not to metagame against him, particularly given my siding with the casteless. Not sure if I dislike him or the end slide writers though. Wish there was a third and better choice… I suppose I’d dislike all the dwarven antagonists more if I didn’t enjoy the dwarf storyline in DAO so much…

22. Morrigan. She's got such a great voice, appeared very attractive when I first saw her, and is often quite witty and funny... but what a ditz as an evil witch. Her bickering with Alistair is clearly mostly just her, not Alistair, making things unpleasant merely for the sake of unpleasantness. Her conversation choices can end you up seriously in arrears with her approval-wise despite it seeming to have gone relatively well. And it's not as if her approval is really based on self-interest alone as would be fitting for an evil NPC: she pretty much just goes angry and disapproving at anything good you ever do, thus constantly high-maintenance on the gift track- jewelry craving indeed. Why would a self-centered person hate that you're doing something that's making them look good? "But being a decent person hurts- ouch!" Mind you, her negative reaction to helping Kammen is hilarious, but 10pts down for simply promising the blacksmith to look for his daughter while in Redcliffe castle? Plus despite originally telling your char that she wants to see mountains and the sea for herself, she later balks at your char for simply walking near the scenic overview up the hill by the Redcliffe windmill. Her little "impregnate me" ultimatum at the end is to me one of the few moments when her actions do make sense for her character... That all said though, at least she can be fun to travel with and has plenty of great banter- albeit kept out of the party whenever acts of simple decency or kindness must be performed...

23. Jowan. After hearing the same voice actor emerge in almost the same whiny way from countless NPCs throughout the game (would be reasonable to rename it Jowan Age or Dragon Age: Jowan), I seriously couldn’t stand him for a while, but at this point he’s kinda grown on me, so... just worth some mockery.

24. Howe. I want to seriously dislike the guy for his part in the Highever massacre and Loghain's attempted Fereldenicide, and I don't hesitate to kill him when at last I meet him, but he plays such an ancillary role really. He hardly ever directly interacts with my character until his death scene, and he’s certainly not the kind of brazen sycophant that Ser Cauthrien is, and really nothing that Anora blames him for sounded like something Loghain himself didn't already and openly want and endorse, as we see from cutscenes and Loghain's rationales at Landsmeet. Even Howe's brutal acquisition of Highever was a matter of Loghain himself “offering” it to him apparently as a gift regarding Howe’s longstanding familial rivalry with the Couslands (despite the Couslands’ historic resistance to the Orlesian occupation). This isn't to excuse Howe in the least- much less attempt to make him out a hero (as so many do Loghain)- but just to put him in perspective. He evokes about as much ire from me as the warehouse blood mage leader who I also gladly take out but more along the lines of also collecting as many love letters and toxin extracts as possible… But then again I haven't yet played a human particularly far yet, so this assessment may change...

25. Archdemon. Of course it's really the Public Enemy #1 of the game, so it deserves some dislike on that ground, but it's really just a bit of a disappointment. I mean, it's quite a fabulous sight and fantastically animated IMO, but all in all it's just some big dumb animal. I could be out fighting magically-appearing bears and wolves in Lothering instead. But didn't Alistair say it "talks to the horde?" Then what is it saying to them? "Me like go smash. You like go smash too? We like go smash! We go up top for smash now." Truly a spectacular beast to look at, but it seems like Oghren was onto something in considering them merely someone's pet dragon...

26. Caladrius. I instantly oppose slavery, I relish killing him every time, and he never makes a single deal with any of my chars… but he's so funny to listen to with that theatric manner of speaking. Hehe I dislike him on every ground except entertainment value. "Hm, yes, well, then I don't suppose you might just... let me go?" lol "Nice try."

27. Kolgrim. Same as Caladrius above, but with violent cultism rather than enslaving to dislike. He's very funny to watch prance about and posture, particularly if you push his buttons the right way there in front of his "flock."

As for Wynne who seems so very unpopular in this thread, I really like her. Can she be preachy? Yeah. And she's got more Makerisms of her own despite the fact that Chantryspeak is bad for a mage's health. But she has one of the kindest voices I've ever heard, and when she starts lecturing I don't hear a calloused earbending, just a kind old woman's attempt at mothering- despite that she never has been one. So I just pick through for what's meaningful in what she says- and there’s plenty- and feel good that she's there looking out for my char. I don't have to tell her she's right about everything to have her approval, just be nice and sit back while the wizened old lady tells her tales. She's very consistent that way, appreciative of kindness, and not fickle, plus even her disapproval of relationships is something she later takes back and apologizes for- something unheard of even IRL. Her extra storyline and quest are touching, and her manner of joining you is good and entirely your choice. Her background makes her seem like a very lonely old soul, and I for one support her. Seems impossible to hate her without being dishonest. Isn't she already pretty much sacrificing her life to help you? Plus she's as loyal to a good Warden as Dog- just without the barking and slobbering- and she can cast a mean Blizzard if need be.

For Eamon, yeah, he makes his own power grab in a way, and, no, Alistair isn’t even game for it (though for once Alistair didn’t make any ultimatum), but the guy was laying there on the brink of death for presumably weeks, his family and village severely traumatized by assassination, undead, and demons- and all due to Loghain’s lame meddling. I think I can see why on that ground alone Eamon might just feel the need to make sure Loghain doesn’t stay on the throne- kind of a priority really. And since Anora doesn’t present herself as an ally until later- and so poorly even then- the only available option was to proceed as he did. Or would a Regent Loghain permit him to live after all? And in Eamon’s case at least he didn’t resort to selling Fereldens into slavery, hiring cutthroat torturers and assassins, perpetuating civil war, consigning 1000s to their deaths to murder his own daughter’s husband, allying with lunatic mages the likes of Uldred, generally acting the pompous ass, etc. Yeah, not quite the same form of powergrabbiness on Eamon’s part…

Modifié par Bhryaen, 10 mai 2012 - 01:45 .

[Bhryaen]

No matter if one agrees or disagrees . . . this is nearly the best . . . post. . . EVER.

Just "nearly?" The nerve of some people!

Faerunner wrote...
... Is there anyone in this game that you DO like? (Besides Wynne?)
I mean, I know everyone has their annoying moments, but really...? O.o

Well, it's a griping thread, so... If I were to start in on all my liked characters, it would be a much longer list, and there are some antagonists who are otherwise shoo-in’s for the dislike category that I didn’t include because I like them anyway- even despite their nasty habit of trying to kill my char. Double-crossing Leske is my favorite char in the game (Dagna holding a close second), and I never seem to tire of the flippant humor of the leader of that initial pack of Lothering bandits, though I’ve had his head for a trophy more than once. I mostly mention Wynne only because the excessive piling on to take down a kindly old lady just seemed to require a counterargument...
:wizard:Wynne FTW!

Speaking of which I neglected to add:

The Shaper. Can’t tell you how steamed I got when- after having held such a pleasant and informative discussion with him about this and that Orzammar trivia- my DC asked him about the casteless, and he coldly replied that he wouldn’t even be speaking to her except that she’s a Warden. So she coldly stopped speaking with such a non-entity. Again no convenient knifing option in the dialogue choices. Shame- not enough of those. But a decent amulet to steal from him…

And for the fun of it:

Bryce Cousland. “Pup?” He calls my char “Pup?” Ugh. “Yes, Biatch?” Plus what a pig of a patriarch, just as much of a connoisseur of degenerate humor as his prized eldest canine, ladies and children present or no, but yet he expects me to act all dutifully for him? Mom deserves better. Good thing it’s her that my Cousland has to fight beside, not him: I might just have had to strip him and make him tank a bit. And he requires his guards to do some fist-pump-chest-thump routine even for a simple “fetch the guest” mission. What’s up with that? No, I won’t be harassing the guards for merely playing cards, even if they might be the same as Vaughan’s guards for all I know. Is it any wonder Fergus was such good friends with Howe prior to the massacre? I totally don’t seem to fit with my Cousland “family.” I must have been adopted. Yes, I will decide for myself whether or not to become a Warden, thank you very much for respecting my adult decision-making process. And, no, I’ve no need to slay Howe with the diddly family blade either. I’ll be finding my own, thanks, but it does hock for some decent early silvers.

I could mention the patronizing Cousland family librarian as well who can't seem to help berating me for merely asking questions that an interested new player can't help but ask, but at least he doesn't call my char "Pup." I will mention the resident Cousland Chantry mouthpiece, however, whose comfy career position at my castle doesn't seem to keep her from patronizing me for my atheism as impertinently as Lothering's "Revered Patronizer" wags her own well-manicured finger.

This, I have to agree with. The Couslands are depicted as this perfect family that leads a perfect utopian society that treats everyone with perfect justice and fairness that get praised by all (human) staff and guests alike being the most noble and just family to ever live...

I do wonder how many human players (elves and dwarves play DAO differently, according to official telemetry figures) even recognize the racism in the HN Origin, much less balk at it. Having played both the DC and CE Origins just prior, it stood out like sore middle finger. Mind you, your HN Cousland can go on from his or her indifference in the Nan scene to strike up an instant night of mutual attraction and intimacy with an elf who’d been one of Mom’s friend’s
assistants, but of course before morn you have to watch her get one-shotted by the humans she chose to live around, so… not a lot of ways in the HN Origin to distinguish your Cousland from a Nan (or a Quartermaster for that matter). After all, it was she herself who apparently raised your HN on all her stories…

Mind you, the general refrain would be that, well, that was how things were in that time and place. Yeah, and I’m from another, so my Wardens will have a different outlook than the prevailing one regardless… If the CE Origin can be focused on countering racists from without, my Cousland better have the opportunity to focus on thwarting ‘em from within. Surely the writers weren’t writing the HN Origin only for racism fans to play after all. If playing a Cousland means necessarily playing an elf-basher, I’ll play an HN just to watch a Cousland get slaughtered by the Dalish over and over…

Also consider that a few elves in the City Elf Origin say that they hear humans in the Highever Alienage are worse than those in Denerim. I guess you could argue that it's just hearsay, but considering elves constantly inter-marry between Alienages, and Highever and Denerim are so close to each other, I don't think those reports would be false.

Good memory and reasoning. I’d forgotten that detail from what one hears in the CE’s Origin
alienage.

Although, considering Howe is an openly racist ****** that leads a purge against the Denerim Alienage for no other reason than he can, and waves it off to a City Elf Warden by effectively saying elves are "animals that need to be put down when they snap at their masters," I doubt conditions improved for elven staff after Howe took over Highever. :/

Ah, yes, I’ve not yet gotten my CE that far. Howe says that, does he? I knew I’d have to revise his rank in my dislike list at some point… and it won’t even take playing a member of the KKKouslands. lol

Modifié par Bhryaen, 12 mai 2012 - 04:07 .