239 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

That said the clothing being iconic doesn't alleviate the sillyness of people wearing clothes into battles. They aren't superheroes or tribal warriors.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 novembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Anarya]

Ryzaki wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Sure, absolutely. And in a movie or something, they would have a changed look (like the infamous emo Peter Parker in Spiderman 3).

Oh god I was laughing so hard when I saw him change. I was like "really? Really? That suit made him emo? Why?!?"

Yeeeah that was a little weird. Though I think I had more of a problem with how he acted that scene than how they styled him. Maybe the hair was a little much.

But the issue could be something like their view of a political issue, like mages vs. chantry. In that case I wouldn't expect a huge personality change.

[Herr Uhl]

Anarya wrote...

Sure, absolutely. And in a movie or something, they would have a changed look (like the infamous emo Peter Parker in Spiderman 3).

*imagines Varric doing that sequence if you become a rival after a romance*

Make it so!

[Anarya]

NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[AntiChri5]

For the same reason they claimed Miranda was a femme fatale. They thought it gave the character ore "oomph" even if it didn't fit the character at all. Marketing speak is mostly gibberish anyays. Asari are asexual *grumbles angrily about how people should read their own codexes*

It is because the character may not fit the actual definition but they do fit the laymans definition.

I mean, how many twits have labeled Jack a psycopath on the forums without ever seeing that ad?

[Hukari]

He might even wax his chest. After all, he's got to fit into a form-fitting suit now...



... don't murder me! Please!

[Ryzaki]

Anarya wrote...
Yeeeah that was a little weird. Though I think I had more of a problem with how he acted that scene than how they styled him. Maybe the hair was a little much.

But the issue could be something like their view of a political issue, like mages vs. chantry. In that case I wouldn't expect a huge personality change.

Oh god the hair..did he do a hair flip? I can't remember. *rolls around laughing* 

That said I suppose there wouldn't be a huge change over political issues.

[Anarya]

AntiChri5 wrote...

For the same reason they claimed Miranda was a femme fatale. They thought it gave the character ore "oomph" even if it didn't fit the character at all. Marketing speak is mostly gibberish anyays. Asari are asexual *grumbles angrily about how people should read their own codexes*

It is because the character may not fit the actual definition but they do fit the laymans definition.
I mean, how many twits have labeled Jack a psycopath on the forums without ever seeing that ad?

Well maybe they never really talked to her. I mean she pretty much likes to project that image because she doesn't want people to know about her gooey core.

[Ryzaki]

AntiChri5 wrote...

It is because the character may not fit the actual definition but they do fit the laymans definition.
I mean, how many twits have labeled Jack a psycopath on the forums without ever seeing that ad?

Far too many.

But the laymen's definition of femme fatale is a women who lures men to their doom and a psychopath is someone who doesn't care about how others feel and feels no regret for their actions.

[Hukari]

Anarya wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

For the same reason they claimed Miranda was a femme fatale. They thought it gave the character ore "oomph" even if it didn't fit the character at all. Marketing speak is mostly gibberish anyays. Asari are asexual *grumbles angrily about how people should read their own codexes*

It is because the character may not fit the actual definition but they do fit the laymans definition.
I mean, how many twits have labeled Jack a psycopath on the forums without ever seeing that ad?

Well maybe they never really talked to her. I mean she pretty much likes to project that image because she doesn't want people to know about her gooey core.

My good lady, are you implying Jack is filled with some sort of caramel substance?

Shocking, indeed. This must be investigated. Who has a straw?

[Anarya]

Ryzaki wrote...

Anarya wrote...
Yeeeah that was a little weird. Though I think I had more of a problem with how he acted that scene than how they styled him. Maybe the hair was a little much.

But the issue could be something like their view of a political issue, like mages vs. chantry. In that case I wouldn't expect a huge personality change.

Oh god the hair..did he do a hair flip? I can't remember. *rolls around laughing* 

That said I suppose there wouldn't be a huge change over political issues.

You know it.



Gaze upon it and despair.

[Sir JK]

Hukari wrote...

Aye, perhaps it is a bit late in the game to be speaking of such a compromise. However, I personally am actually surprised at the speed with which they've come out with DA2. I was expecting a couple year's wait, so being so close to each other, it's surprising. But I digress...

You know, since planning of DA2 started a month after Origins release. It was in fact literally a couple of years
Seriously though. Origins is the exception. It had unusually long development time.
It's also worth considering that time is expensive since they have to pay the wages of the developers. The longer the development time, the bigger the budget needed. The bigger the budget is the bigger the market need to be. The bigger the market need to be the more people it need to appeal to. The more people it need to appeal to, the less niche the game can be. Is this not what many passionate rpg fans wish to avoid?

Even altering that core personality to become the rival/companion might be worthy of a shift. As a rival, they get a bit harder, a bit rougher, a bit more competitive to get you... and so they, too, get a little rougher around the edges. Maybe they stud the leather they have, rather than leaving it plain or embroidered. Something akin to that.

Yes. I agree. But... how do you know this is not the case? After all, we have gotten confirmation that while being the exception, slome characters will change their outfit.

Anyhow. I can only speak for me in this regard, but I wouldn't mind them putting it off another month or two to re-design this aspect. It seems like it would be a smash hit with the community, at least.

I think they honestly have considered it. Let's face it, most of us are not developers and if we came to that conclusion so did they. That means they have a really good reason not to add it in.
Not missing a deadline and staying inside the budget, while flimsy excuses to some, qualify as good reasons. Producers tend to be very annoyed when that happens (and they're the ones paying for it).

[Anarya]

Hukari wrote...

Anarya wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

For the same reason they claimed Miranda was a femme fatale. They thought it gave the character ore "oomph" even if it didn't fit the character at all. Marketing speak is mostly gibberish anyays. Asari are asexual *grumbles angrily about how people should read their own codexes*

It is because the character may not fit the actual definition but they do fit the laymans definition.
I mean, how many twits have labeled Jack a psycopath on the forums without ever seeing that ad?

Well maybe they never really talked to her. I mean she pretty much likes to project that image because she doesn't want people to know about her gooey core.

My good lady, are you implying Jack is filled with some sort of caramel substance?

Shocking, indeed. This must be investigated. Who has a straw?

Well I never said it was caramel. It could be sugary pink stuff with a maraschino cherry.

[Ortaya Alevli]

I would expect a hardened Leliana to get out of her Chantry robes, that's for sure.

[Ryzaki]

Anarya wrote...

You know it.

*gif snipped*

Gaze upon it and despair.

OMG hard to breathe.

I can't believe he actually did the hair flip.

[Hukari]

Oh, I agree. There are certainly -reasons- behind them delaying it, and as mentioned prior, technology is something akin to magic in my eyes. I have the electronic knowledge of a late 19th century gentleman. I know I press the buttons and stuff happens, but that's it.

Anyhow, yeah. I just feel as if they need a bit more time, if we've had this discussion, reached a reasonable middle ground, and the only complaint we can levvy against it is time. Perhaps, since we're not the ones doing the actual programming, we're somewhat biased towards "Eh, add more work and wait 'till it's finished".

And there might very well be changes in outfit, but from the sound of things they're aiming for a ME2 style system, which was very limited indeed (and is something, I think, everyone here is against).

... as an aside, it might be the insomnia or the sleep deprivation talking... but I love you guys.

Edit Zwei: Hm. I -see- Clearly, this requires more experimentation.

Modifié par Hukari, 19 novembre 2010 - 10:27 .

[Anarya]

Ryzaki wrote...

Anarya wrote...

You know it.

*gif snipped*

Gaze upon it and despair.

OMG hard to breathe.

I can't believe he actually did the hair flip.

Oh yeah. He totally went there.

[Maria Caliban]

Hukari wrote...
What I don't see is why this means they must be restricted to only one outfit.

You probably don't see this because it isn't necessarily true. No one is claiming this, as far as I know. There are people saying that the unique outfits of ME 2 are better than the interchangeable ones of DA:O, and that they like the idea of companions having unique outfits.

For some characters, a single outfit is good. (Superman, Darth Vader, the Emperor have all been named) These characters are all very tightly defined and fill a specific, unchanging role.

When Darth Vader asks Luke to take off his mask in the end and we finally see his face, the audience understands we're finally seeing the man behind the relentless force of the three movies. When Clark Kent takes off his glasses and opens his shirt to show the giant S, we know that he's gone from 'everyman' mode to 'superhero' mode.

Other characters may have a specific style or their clothing changes over time. In the Godfather movies, Vito Corleone enters America as a poor immigrant. He wears cheap, practical workmen's clothing until he becomes the Godfather. Then he switches to expensive suits. As soon as Michael takes over, he switches back to basic clothing (he dies in gardening clothing) and Michael goes from wearing nice clothing to expensive suits.

This is not bold. It's not a Superman costume. But the characters always wear clothing appropriate to their current role in the setting.

Again, I reach back to the trough of the Arcane Warrior, since it's a massive shift in armor design for a class. Upon becoming an Arcane Warrior, should Morrigan have been restricted to her swamp rags? Even though that did not represent who she was at that point?

Honestly? Yes. "I've gained a specialization" is not a meaningful change for a character. If there was something within the story about her connecting to ancient elven ways I might feel differently.

Edit: And, I will concede another point: Yes, colour-coding-for-your-convenience in regards to outfits does make things easier for characterization. But, I would rather then improve upon the depth of the character to where -it does not matter-. I would rather they let their writing and descriptions shine, rather than relying upon visual cues and cheap mental associations to automatically make their writing easier. I want to see someone in a lab coat that is a complete and utter pillock. I want a beggar to quote Shakespeare with perfect diction. Because those, in my opinion, are far deeper and more well-written characters. Because they have no safety net, no reliance.

What I hear here is that you prefer one form of expression over another. Visual expression is 'cheap' while textual or dialogue expression is deep. That's fine, but video games are a visual medium.

The visual of 'a beggar' is no more cheap than the sound of someone 'quoting Shakespeare.' They're both shorthand for larger associations. That you've picked conflicting associations (lower class vs classy) is in itself a character gimmick.

[Maria Caliban]

You people write too damn fast.

[Ryzaki]

Anarya wrote...


Oh yeah. He totally went there.

He totally ruins it with the smile. He should know being emo is serious business.

[AntiChri5]

But the laymen's definition of femme fatale is a women who lures men to their doom and a psychopath is someone who doesn't care about how others feel and feels no regret for their actions.

I would say the laymans definition of femme fatalle is more "hot chick who kills stuff (and wears a skin tight outfit)", and that the laymans for psycopath is "overly angry and violent".

[Hukari]

Well, Maria Caliban, I'll disagree on one thing... video games are not a solely visual medium. They're a multimedia, composed of different things. Everything from fashion, to drawing, to painting, to literature, oration, music, directing... it is, perhaps, the most blended of all art forms. Whereas a painter deals with art, and a singer deals with music, a video game designer has to combine the trifecta of literature, visuals, and audio to create a good game.



One that emphasizes visuals only, at the expense of literature and audio, is called 'pap', or, 'shallow'. They are the Halos, the Gears of Wars, the opium of the masses. Conversely, those with excessive audio are barely considered games at all, perhaps interactive soundtracks at best. And those with excessive literature and dialogue are considered 'boring' and 'drab'. Really, it is a combination of the three, but I dislike sacrificing one aspect for another.



Let me say this: My favorite games are RPG's from the late 90's and early 2000's. Arcanum, Baldur's Gate 2, Fallout, Planescape. These are the games I enjoy, and Baldur's Gate 2 in particular stands out as the perfect balance with the available technology of the day. Anything that brings it closer to that mean, in my opinion, is a good thing.

[Hukari]

Maria Caliban wrote...

You people write too damn fast.

Yes, yes we do. Part of the job, I'm afraid.

... no, seriously. It is. Yay for law!

[Maria Caliban]

Anarya wrote...

Also about Doc Brown in cowboy clothes, take a look at the *type* of cowboy clothes he's wearing, and contrast that to what Marty is wearing in that scene. There's still characterization going on there. Every single piece of clothing in a movie is carefully either designed or selected by the costume designer, even if you're not aware of it.

And that's the *third* movie. The first two he was very much dressed as a crazy mad scientist.

Aermas wrote...

What would you say were defining aspects of Isabela's armor?

Easy access. Bend her over and it's like CiCi's pizza bar on Sunday night.

Hukari wrote...

Well, Maria Caliban, I'll disagree on one thing... video games are not a solely visual medium. They're a multimedia, composed of different things. Everything from fashion, to drawing, to painting, to literature, oration, music, directing... it is, perhaps, the most blended of all art forms.

How is that disagreeing with me?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 19 novembre 2010 - 10:47 .

[Hukari]

... Maria, I'll admit, I chuckled. But, really, why were you looking up her Pirate Cove anyways? If you want to plunder her booty, you've just got to ask. 'course, she'll shiver your timbers first, but that's why you gotta tie the man down and weigh anchor. Yo ho ho, indeed.

Edit: And the reason I disagreed is that you said games were a visual medium. I took that to mean the implication that it was -only- a visual medium, which is why I lodged the protest.

Modifié par Hukari, 19 novembre 2010 - 10:48 .