92 réponses à ce sujet

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Please stay on the character reaction topic and take your destroy/keep argument to the thread dedicated to that discussion.

[kraidy1117]

Dave of Canada wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

If he didn't want the tech he wounld't have got that pissed off when you blew off the base.

Of course he wanted the tech, Shepard was being a moron and blew up the base because it would "compromise who he is" and but the entire galaxy at risk because of it. I'd be pretty pissed off too.

One decision does not put the galaxy at risk, until ME2 DLC is done and ME3c is out, then you can start thinking that.

[Dave of Canada]

kraidy1117 wrote...

One decision does not put the galaxy at risk, until ME2 DLC is done and ME3c is out, then you can start thinking that.

Sorry if I act incharacter.

[kraidy1117]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

1. Some things require perspective. But yes, I do agree somewhat with it making less sense for a pro cerberus shepard. 

2. Don't get me wrong, her loyalty to cerberus is probably real, but it's not founded in the dedicated belief to their cause. She came for the protection, and the cause grew on her, like it would anyone in her position.

The point is, it's much more easily uprooted than if she had joined as a crazy fundamentalist screaming for the alien crusades. Which is why I don't see her questioning of cerberus at the end being 'such' a strech as some people make it out to be. 

In response to point 2, she states multiple times she stands for what Cerberus stands for, and she never makes even the slightest indication that that may not be the case. The point is, the only anti-Cerberus sentiments she ever hints about are at the Collector base and afterward. If we can't assume Miranda is completely behind Cerberus when every shred of evidence points in that direction, then we are not allowed to make any assumptions about any characters feelings on anything. I think Jack actually loves Cerberus because they made her powerful, she just doesn't know it yet. TIM isn't actually behind Cerberus despite his hard work, he just doesn't know he hates his organization yet.

Actualy she regrets that too many recist join Cerberus and gives Cerberus a bad name. This is coming from a woman who respects the asari and the salarians, and admires Mordin.

[Dave of Canada]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Please stay on the character reaction topic and take your destroy/keep argument to the thread dedicated to that discussion.

My apologies.

[kraidy1117]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Please stay on the character reaction topic and take your destroy/keep argument to the thread dedicated to that discussion.

Sorry.

[LorDC]

kraidy1117 wrote...
Actualy she regrets that too many recist join Cerberus and gives Cerberus a bad name. This is coming from a woman who respects the asari and the salarians, and admires Mordin.

This only shows example that you don't need to be racist to be nationalist(which is obviously true).

[LorDC]

Count Viceroy wrote...
2. Don't get me wrong, her loyalty to cerberus is probably real, but it's not founded in the dedicated belief to their cause. She came for the protection, and the cause grew on her, like it would anyone in her position.

In addition to previous posters I should add that throughout Ascension and Retribution TIM is shown as very good at reading people. I doubt that he would have allowed non-dedicated man/woman to become his right hand.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

No harm done, I just think it's an interesting topic and dread the t-lock.

kraidy1117 wrote...

Actualy she regrets that too many recist join Cerberus and gives Cerberus a bad name. This is coming from a woman who respects the asari and the salarians, and admires Mordin.

In that statement she is showing that wants Cerberus to better itself. She recognizes many Cerberus agents are xenophobes and wishes they were not. She wants Cerberus to have better agents; she doesn't want to leave because she is disgruntled.

[kraidy1117]

LorDC wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
Actualy she regrets that too many recist join Cerberus and gives Cerberus a bad name. This is coming from a woman who respects the asari and the salarians, and admires Mordin.

This only shows example that you don't need to be racist to be nationalist(which is obviously true).

Hey I am just saying that this could be taken out of context that she does not approve of Cerberus. I am not saying I agree with that belief, but I can see how people get the wrong idea.

[Count Viceroy]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

The point is, the only anti-Cerberus sentiments she ever hints about are at the Collector base and afterward. If we can't assume Miranda is completely behind Cerberus when every shred of evidence points in that direction, then we are not allowed to make any assumptions about any characters feelings on anything.

Meh, I took it as she coming to the decision on her own, without the need to discuss it with others nor ask anyone for guidance, she's independent and i think it's reasonable that she would come to this conclusion entierly on her own after seeing multiple cerberus experiment after another.

She tries like everyone else to rationalise away the rachni and the husks when talking to shepard, and I'm sure she was aware of some of the details of other operations as well. But it's another thing entierly to walk the halls of pragia or seeing Project overlord with your own eyes.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 novembre 2010 - 08:12 .

[Count Viceroy]

LorDC wrote...

In addition to previous posters I should add that throughout Ascension and Retribution TIM is shown as very good at reading people. I doubt that he would have allowed non-dedicated man/woman to become his right hand.

Perhaps, but then it could be argued that he should have seen the destruction of the base coming. He 'knew' shepard was too idealistic from the start right. 20/20 Hindsight vision.He's not perfect, and as I've stated multiple times, I believe her loyalty is geniune, but it was something that developed after she joined.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 novembre 2010 - 08:13 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

The point is, the only anti-Cerberus sentiments she ever hints about are at the Collector base and afterward. If we can't assume Miranda is completely behind Cerberus when every shred of evidence points in that direction, then we are not allowed to make any assumptions about any characters feelings on anything.

Meh, I took it as she coming to the decision on her own, without the need to discuss it with other nor ask anyone for guidance, she's independent and i think it's reasonable that she would come to this conclusion entierly on her own after seeing multiple cerberus experiment after another.

She tries like everyone else to rationalise away the rachni and the husks when talking to shepard, and I'm sure she was aware of some of the details of other operations as well. But it's another thing entierly to walk the halls of pragia or seeing Project overlord with your own eyes.

I don't think we completely disagree. I agree that this could happen. I just don't see any uncertainty in Miranda about Cerberus previously. This transformation should not have been sudden and she should have hinted at waning loyalty. 

[Count Viceroy]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I don't think we completely disagree. I agree that this could happen. I just don't see any uncertainty in Miranda about Cerberus previously. This transformation should not have been sudden and she should have hinted at waning loyalty. 

It would have made for a better story, definatly. But to her defense, hers isnt the only character plot that feels hollow. They certainly made good on the Gamplay>everything else mantra this time around.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 novembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[LorDC]

Count Viceroy wrote...
Perhaps, but then it could be argued that he should have seen the destruction of the base coming. He 'knew' shepard was too idealistic from the start right. 20/20 Hindsight vision.He's not perfect, and as I've stated multiple times, I believe her loyalty is geniune, but it was something that developed after she joined.

Difference is that Shepard showed up in TIMs field of view only after ME1 events and he talked to him in person only at the beginning of ME2 while Miranda was working for Cerberus for like 10-15 years. And if her loyalty developed after joining it should be even stronger because it is based on knowledge of actual Cerberus agenda.

[LorDC]

Count Viceroy wrote...
Meh, I took it as she coming to the decision on her own, without the need to discuss it with others nor ask anyone for guidance, she's independent and i think it's reasonable that she would come to this conclusion entierly on her own after seeing multiple cerberus experiment after another.

But it is happening not in real life but in fictional story. And such "hidden" development doesn't make story any better.

I think we all came to conclusion that there could be possible explanations to what happened to her but it certainly could have been written better. Don't see any sense in continuing this discussion.

[Count Viceroy]

LorDC wrote...

I think we all came to conclusion that there could be possible explanations to what happened to her but it certainly could have been written better. Don't see any sense in continuing this discussion.

Agreed, which is why it all stopped at the previous post

[LorDC]

Count Viceroy wrote...

LorDC wrote...

I think we all came to conclusion that there could be possible explanations to what happened to her but it certainly could have been written better. Don't see any sense in continuing this discussion.

Agreed, which is why it all stopped at the previous post

Not before I put in my last 2 centsB)