315 réponses à ce sujet

[AngusJimiKeith]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

But F=ma. So reducing the mass does decrease the forces needed to achieve a particular acceleration, and as I said if materials have the same strength (= requires the same *force* to snap a bone, tear a muscle, crush an organ, etc.), then that will mitigate the effects.

The effects of reduced force are canceled out by reduced mass (the lower-forces have a bigger impact on the object since it has low mass). We're getting into tautologies here, but F= ma, the a never changes as you lower m even though F does.

The effect of lowering the mass of a human and then slamming them forward with a thousand G's of acceleration is the same as getting a mass of flesh 1000 times lower than a humans' total body-mass and slamming with thousands of G's of acceleration. In both cases, the meat gets pulverized into unrecognizable form, even though it took "less force" to accelerate the less massive object.

The question that's hanging here unasked -- what causes the "squish" during acceleration? 

(And don't say "the acceleration".)

How about the acceleration OF the acceleration? no, seriously. the actual terminology is "jerk". Every notice that once you start accelerating at a constant rate, that "squish" goes away? thats because jerk=0. when the acceleration is changing, jerk=/=0, therefore you feel a "squish" (or "jerk").

[somebody99000]

adam_grif wrote...

The effects of reduced force are canceled out by reduced mass (the lower-forces have a bigger impact on the object since it has low mass). We're getting into tautologies here, but F= ma, the a never changes as you lower m even though F does.

The effect of lowering the mass of a human and then slamming them forward with a thousand G's of acceleration is the same as getting a mass of flesh 1000 times lower than a humans' total body-mass and slamming with thousands of G's of acceleration. In both cases, the meat gets pulverized into unrecognizable form, even though it took "less force" to accelerate the less massive object.

Well, whatever. I'm a physicist, not an engineer, we always assume the materials are sufficiently strong and don't worry about things...breaking. I can't really say anything more incisive or enlightening.

Modifié par somebody99000, 28 novembre 2010 - 10:33 .

[Nimrodell]

Eletania, Prothean sphere and the trinket from the Consort is unfired gun for me... I'm not sure if that Prothean sphere my Shepards have on Normandy will eventually give me the answer on this, but I surely hope that I'll find the answer in ME3, been waiting for it since ME1... For those that didn't see this, I'll give you Shepard's vision from Eletania Prothean sphere (ofc if Shepard has the trinket):

Examining the strange Prothean artifact reveals a small, irregular
slot on the underside of the surface. Remembering the strange trinket
you received from the asari Consort on the Citadel, you pull it out and
place it in the slot. The ball explodes in a brilliant flash of white
light, momentarily blinding you and disorienting you.
Slowly your senses return as you wake from a deep sleep. You are
alone in the forest, though you are not far from the caves you share
with the others in your tribe. There is a pain and a small lump in the
back of your skull, as if a chip of flint has been forced under the
surface of the skin.
Leaning on your bone-tipped spear for support, you rise to your
feet. A sound draws your attention upwards, where a strange creature
hovers high above you. It is unlike the birds you hunt by the lake's
edge – it has no head and no wings yet somehow it flies. It is a beast
of shining silver; hanging motionless in the sky like a cloud. You
sense it is watching you, studying you.
Raising a hairy fist, you shake your spear at it in anger and the
creature rises up quickly until it disappears from view. With a
satisfied grunt you make your way back to your caves and the rest of the
tribe.
You fall into the familiar patterns of life – the hunt for food,
the struggle to claim and keep a mate, the battles against the other
tribes that would claim your territory. Days roll into nights and back
into days. Each time you rise from sleep there is the sensation that
you are not alone; that some "other" is with you sharing all you see,
hear and feel. At these times your hand goes to the strange lump at the
back of your skull and you remember the silver creature from the sky.
The air grows colder, winter falls. You must range farther for
food, clutching the furs tight against you to ward off the chill. It is
on one of these long hunts that the strange bird returns. You hear it
before you see it, its call a deafening roar as it descends from above,
swooping down on you. A single great eye opens on the underbelly, a
glowing red orb. You try to run, but a finger of red light extends from
the eye and engulfs you, and all goes black again.
You wake an instant later to find yourself on Eletania lying on
your back, the Prothean artifact looming above you undamaged and your
companions standing over you. They help you to your feet, puzzled.
"There was a flash of light and you just sort of toppled over," one
explains. "Are you okay, Shepard?" the other asks. You don't answer
right away, wondering at the implications of what you have seen: the
memories of a Cro-Magnon hunter, captured by an implanted Prothean data
recorder. How long did they study the primitive humans, observing them
and analyzing the results at their base on Mars? And what, if anything,
did they learn from us?

"I'm fine," you finally reply, realizing that this is a mystery you will probably never solve. "Forget about it."

Modifié par Nimrodell, 28 novembre 2010 - 10:49 .

[Iakus]

Here's a couple of unfored guns:



Liara and the Virmire Survivor.



How it was handled aside, we were told that they were specifically nonrecruitable because they were somehow important to how ME 3 will unfold. This is what we were told, not information from the game itself, so take that fro what it's worth.



Now, LOTSB kinda tells us how Liara will fit into ME 3, but what about the VS? HE or she is rising through the ranks in the Allliance, but I doubt either of them will be an admiral or snything like that by the time ME 3 occurs. Though I could see Kaiden as a captain, perhaps.

[Theoristitis]

iakus wrote...
Now, LOTSB kinda tells us how Liara will fit into ME 3, but what about the VS? HE or she is rising through the ranks in the Allliance, but I doubt either of them will be an admiral or snything like that by the time ME 3 occurs. Though I could see Kaiden as a captain, perhaps.

Both have quite impressive credentials after working with Shepard, not to mention a strong relationship with Anderson, a top Alliance military official. An "N_" commando is not out of the possibility. Or part of (heading) a special team of Anderson's. Or rejoining Shepard. With luck, the DLC will make it clear.

[Iakus]

Theoristitis wrote...

Both have quite impressive credentials after working with Shepard, not to mention a strong relationship with Anderson, a top Alliance military official. An "N_" commando is not out of the possibility. Or part of (heading) a special team of Anderson's. Or rejoining Shepard. With luck, the DLC will make it clear.

Unless working with Shepard gives them a black mark almost as bad as Ash's grandfather's

While it's possible, even likely that there will be a DLC, and I'm certainly hoping for one, I haven't heard anything one way or the other about such a DLC being in the works.

[Theoristitis]

iakus wrote...
Unless working with Shepard gives them a black mark almost as bad as Ash's grandfather's

While it's possible, even likely that there will be a DLC, and I'm certainly hoping for one, I haven't heard anything one way or the other about such a DLC being in the works.

Haha, quite true . There's always Horizon though.
And I totally thought there was going to be a DLC for the VS. My bad if there isn't, or for stating it as fact if it's only rumored.

[Iakus]

Theoristitis wrote...

Haha, quite true . There's always Horizon though.
And I totally thought there was going to be a DLC for the VS. My bad if there isn't, or for stating it as fact if it's only rumored.

Ah, yes, Horizon

I think people are expecting a VS DLC because there was a Liara one.  and eventually it just became assumed there will be one.   I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but I don't recall hearing anything about one being in development.  Not even a rumor.  I may be wrong about that though.

[Fiery Phoenix]

In theory, the whole Lazarus Project thing should be expanded upon in ME3. ME2 lacked character on Shepard's part; it wasn't until that one scene with Liara (excluding the romance-driven dialog with Thane) that I felt Shepard was finally Shepard the Human and not just Shepard the Hero. It's only a question of whether or not ME3 will bother looking at things from this angle; ME1 did, ME2 did not, ME3? We just don't know.

[Mariquis]

Regarding the Lazarus project I think it could have almost been fixed if they'd just done this:

1) Changing Taylor's quip to "I WAS TOLD that when you were brought in you were just meat and tubes, but I'm no doctor-

Jacob's original quip always bothered me, because it suggested that Shepard actually might have hit the planet.. which is ridiculous no matter how you spin it because she would have burnt up during entry. Also we can see during the opening cutscenes, that Shepard clearly isn't meat and tubes material - in fact she's still moving! This implies that there must have been further trauma after death (implying impact, which makes no sense!)

So,if it was simply hear-say that Shepard was meat and tubes (or perhaps just an exaggeration to express how dire the situation was) it could have been perfectly plausible that Shepard froze to death  - and this is 170ish years in the future, if we can bring people back to life NOW when they've frozen to death, it's certainly plausible that they could do it then.  The physical damage seen in the opening cutscene (tons of cracked and absolutely destroyed bones etc.) could have been explained away by proximity to the explosion (not immediately fatal) and the insta-freeze  could have temporarily preserved her before oxygen (as humans can last about five minutes before the brain starts deteriorating from lack of oxygen, and we clearly see Shepard stop moving not even two minutes after the explosion)

The way I see the Lazarus project is that there really wasn't another good explanation for the two year gap.  Other's have suggested a coma but.. I really don't think that would have worked.  If she was only in a coma why on earth wouldn't the Alliance have taken her in?  Coma = chance of recovery, I really can't fathom why they would just give up on the Galaxy's saviour, leaving no good reason for her to fall into Cerberus hands. Also, two years ia  long time to keep someone on life support if they're in a coma. I would think if she had been they likely would have just pulled the plug after year one. At least with her dead the only two people vying for her are the ones who don't care if she's dead, because one wants to bring her back to life, and the other just wants her DNA (presumably)

Although I definitely agree with a lot of what others have said regarding how they dealt with the issue of her death.  We don't see any reflection on it by herself, by others.  I would have loved to see some emotional interaction with Joker (who could have easily been 'blamed' for Shepard's death) or perhaps evidence of some trauma due to the...death experience  (I guess it's really not a near death experience) for Shepard.  I also really wish they'd dealt with the idea of "how human is Shepard really.." I mean we see references to it "Skin weave" and such, the hacking in Overlord (which was fabulous!) but with regards to actual character interactions, there's nothing.  I recall a fic I read once that dealt with it better than the in game dialogue, and all it included was Shepard making an off colour joke (which resulted in much awkwardness and sensitivity) about having a brand new stomach when the VS commented that she'd never liked that type of food before.

As a plot device I didn't mind that resurrection, but I felt that the implications of this resurrection were not properly detailed, that is something I would love to see in ME3, and something I feel is really unresolved in this game. Especially when taking account of Shepard being hacked in Overlord., and the idea that maybe the reason why there wasn't much choice in going along with TIM (especially for a sole survivor) was because they DID implant some time of control chip.

We know Cerberus was experimenting with reaper tech, and we know that the beginning stages aren't really apparent to the individual. There was the comment by Miranda about the illusive man not wanting to do anything that seriously affected Shepard's capabilities -- which is eerily similar to what Saren said about the reapers aka: he knew he was not under their control because if they exerted any major influence he would become less capable -- yet as Shepard we could clearly see that he HAD been affected and been completely unaware. It's pretty plausible that Shepard has been mildly indoctrinated (or an equivalent) which would be perfectly in line with ME lore, and that is why she goes along with Cerberus.  I also find it compelling  that an explicit reference to mind control crops up twice (once by Miranda, and once by the VS), which I think would be more than coincidence.

This turned into a novel, oops.

[Killjoy Cutter]

If it turns out that Shepherd has been "mind controlled" in some way, I'll burn my copies of ME1 and ME2, and send the ashes to BioWare.

[Luigitornado]

I won't pick apart the plot of an unfinished trilogy. For all we know most of the big "unknown" answers will be shared in some more DLC or the ME3.

[Luigitornado]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

If it turns out that Shepherd has been "mind controlled" in some way, I'll burn my copies of ME1 and ME2, and send the ashes to BioWare.

Would you kindly ship FedEx?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

It's a minor issue and perhaps not suited for this thread but..

Did anyone feel that the enviorment that we went through on the collector vessel and base was lackluster? Back before ME2 was released I was expecting to go through huge scary labs where we could see all the sick experiments the Collectors have preformed throughout their existence. And while it was true we passed a human melting machine, I expected more.

[darthbuert]

Here's a thought that recently came to mind.

How much do we really know about the beings the Hanar call Enkindlers? Sure we know they believe them to be Protheans, but isn't it possible that during time over the centuries that the facts and details surrounding their saviors actual identities could be wrong or misinterpreted?

Take their name for instance; The Enkindlers.

Merriam-Webster dictionary definition -

Enkindle : To make bright and glowing

The name alone brings to mind something light-based...Protheans just don't physically fit the description. Sure it's possible that this could be a figurative or symbolic reference...A metaphor about how that race enlightened them...The vision could justifiably be explained off as a vision created by possible Prothean beacon exposure, by the Volus billionaire Kumun Shol, but I believe otherwise; especially since there's one race that fits this description of being "light-like" better than any other.


The race of beings described on Klencory. Whatever they are, these beings must be extremely powerful if they can possibly hope to live up to the legends of protecting organic life from synthetic "machine devils."

Which brings me to the reason why I conjecture that the Enkindlers may possibly be these same beings mentioned above. It's understandable that they were powerful. After all, they were powerful enough to
essentially take a race of "jellyfish" and give (teach) them the ability to speak. Which in and of itself is something that the Protheans could also have done. But according to what I've read of their history, since there are
Prothean ruins scattered across Kahje it could be reasonably "assumed" that it was the Protheans that taught them such speech. But if you think about it, an assumption is just that; an assumption...an educated guess.

Who's to say that hundreds of thousands of years ago those same "beings of light" didn't seed the planet with both Protheans and Hanar, only to discover that the Protheans didn't "take" to the environment for whatever reasons, and uprooted them elsewhere, after deciding to grant (or teach) the local life they seeded there (that thrived) to communicate with others of the galaxy...?

Just a thought. I'm not saying that I believe this whole theory per se, just that it would be interesting if something like this scenario succeeded in being what actually happened. (or close to it)

The Protheans were indeed powerful as was mentioned in the onset, but ultimately they were defeated and repurposed by the Reapers which would automatically disqualify them from selection as being in the same
league as the so-called "Beings of Light".


I do believe however that the "Beings of Light" and Dark matter stand a sizable chance of becoming major Chekhov's Guns in the future...of course (****Spoilers ahead for Dragon Age: Origins) we could also be
stuck with a situation akin to Dragon Age: Origins where Morrigan leaves you with no clear explanation as to where she's going and what she'll do when she gets there. Of course the objective of the game is resolved by killing the Archdemon, but other questions are quickly raised and never clearly resolved. (end spoilers)

It's possible something similar could unfold at the end of ME3. All these nice little hints and tidbits could be left unfinished or unresolved simply for the act of driving us to speculate. Or left for future spin-off titles or DLC.

Modifié par darthbuert, 30 novembre 2010 - 07:41 .

[Sable Phoenix]

Luigitornado wrote...

I won't pick apart the plot of an unfinished trilogy. For all we know most of the big "unknown" answers will be shared in some more DLC or the ME3.

This thread isn't actually designed for 'picking apart' the plot of an unfinished trilogy.  It's for highlighting the weaknesses of Mass Effect 2 itself.  There's a ton of stuff in ME2, outside of the overall story arc, that is just not even addressed.  Within the first ten minutes, Shepard is killed, resurrected, and forced under the control of a mortal enemy.  That in and of itself has bucketloads of conflict begging to be developed over the rest of the game.  There are tons of dichotomies and themes and subtexts that could be explored.  Instead we’re just thrown at the Collectors and all that other stuff is treated as an insignificant footnote.  The main point of this thread is to highlight all of that in an attempt to prevent it happening again in Mass Effect 3.

Mariquis wrote...

So,if it was simply hear-say that Shepard was meat and tubes (or perhaps just an exaggeration to express how dire the situation was) it could have been perfectly plausible that Shepard froze to death  - and this is 170ish years in the future, if we can bring people back to life NOW when they've frozen to death, it's certainly plausible that they could do it then.  The physical damage seen in the opening cutscene (tons of cracked and absolutely destroyed bones etc.) could have been explained away by proximity to the explosion (not immediately fatal) and the insta-freeze  could have temporarily preserved her before oxygen (as humans can last about five minutes before the brain starts deteriorating from lack of oxygen, and we clearly see Shepard stop moving not even two minutes after the explosion)

We can't really bring people back from freezing today.  The people who are held in cryogenic freeze are done on the hopes that someday we'll be able to.  That being said, Shepard can't have frozen to death.  Flash freezing does not occur in space, despite interstellar vaccuum being very close to absolute zero.  In fact overheating is the biggest problem, because the conductivity of vaccuum sucks (no pun intended).  Those thick bulky spacesuits NASA astronauts wear?  Those are designed to keep them cool, not warm.  Much of that giant backpack they wear is actually an air-conditioning unit.  Shepard died from asphyxia, not hypothermia.  Unfortunately, everything the game describes indicates that Shepard was actually dead, including total brain death, which makes resuscitation (or resurrection) medically impossible.  It’s totally unnecessary; MIA and in a coma would have accomplished exactly the same thing. As you said, few simple sentences from people like Jacob could have changed that, made the basis of the entire game a lot more palatable, but for some reason, it wasn’t done.  Maybe (hopefully) they’ll address the reason behind this in Mass Effect 3, patching up some of the damage done to the storyline, but it’s really something that should have been addressed by the game in which it occurs.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 30 novembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[darthbuert]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

I won't pick apart the plot of an unfinished trilogy. For all we know most of the big "unknown" answers will be shared in some more DLC or the ME3.

This thread isn't actually designed for 'picking apart' the plot of an unfinished trilogy.  It's for highlighting the weaknesses of Mass Effect 2 itself.  There's a ton of stuff in ME2, outside of the overall story arc, that is just not even addressed.  Within the first ten minutes, Shepard is killed, resurrected, and forced under the control of a mortal enemy.  That in and of itself has bucketloads of conflict begging to be developed over the rest of the game.  There are tons of dichotomies and themes and subtexts that could be explored.  Instead we’re just thrown at the Collectors and all that other stuff is treated as an insignificant footnote.  The main point of this thread is to highlight all of that in an attempt to prevent it happening again in Mass Effect 3.

Mariquis wrote...

So,if it was simply hear-say that Shepard was meat and tubes (or perhaps just an exaggeration to express how dire the situation was) it could have been perfectly plausible that Shepard froze to death  - and this is 170ish years in the future, if we can bring people back to life NOW when they've frozen to death, it's certainly plausible that they could do it then.  The physical damage seen in the opening cutscene (tons of cracked and absolutely destroyed bones etc.) could have been explained away by proximity to the explosion (not immediately fatal) and the insta-freeze  could have temporarily preserved her before oxygen (as humans can last about five minutes before the brain starts deteriorating from lack of oxygen, and we clearly see Shepard stop moving not even two minutes after the explosion)

We can't really bring people back from freezing today.  The people who are held in cryogenic freeze are done on the hopes that someday we'll be able to.

...As they say...sometimes fact is stranger than fiction...

This is a true story about a 19 year old girl frozen solid...when I first read it my mouth was open...it doesn't at all seem possible.

http://www.nytimes.c...ozen-stiff.html

[Iakus]

Mariquis wrote...

So,if it was simply hear-say that Shepard was meat and tubes (or perhaps just an exaggeration to express how dire the situation was) it could have been perfectly plausible that Shepard froze to death  - and this is 170ish years in the future, if we can bring people back to life NOW when they've frozen to death, it's certainly plausible that they could do it then. 

It would have helped, but I'd still want a f ew details.  Two years dead is a far cry from two years of "almost dead"

The way I see the Lazarus project is that there really wasn't another good explanation for the two year gap.  Other's have suggested a coma but.. I really don't think that would have worked.  

I've advocated two years of being on the fringes of space looking for signs of Reapers.  Over time the Council and Alliance stop taking him seriousl.  They determine that with Sovereign dead the Citadel relay will stay closed forever.  Friends get recalled,  funding his expeditions dries up, and generally become embarassed for him .  FInally Shep pulls into Omega where Miranda and Jacob meet him with an offer.  HE has no alternative but Cerberus for aid.

Although I definitely agree with a lot of what others have said regarding how they dealt with the issue of her death.  We don't see any reflection on it by herself, by others.  I would have loved to see some emotional interaction with Joker (who could have easily been 'blamed' for Shepard's death) or perhaps evidence of some trauma due to the...death experience  (I guess it's really not a near death experience) for Shepard.  I also really wish they'd dealt with the idea of "how human is Shepard really.." I mean we see references to it "Skin weave" and such, the hacking in Overlord (which was fabulous!) but with regards to actual character interactions, there's nothing

Yes, to all this.  I mean, you'd think Chakwas and Mordin would at least want to examine Shepard.  Or Chambers could ask Shep some questions about dealing with life again, instead of waiting for the Liara DLC for that.

If death and ressurection is going to be tossed about like this in an rpg, questions need to be answered "Am I still me?"  Or am I an AI that thinks I'm Shepard?  Who says an AI has to be a synthetic intelligence, after all?  How human am I now?"  "What made me so important that I was worth spending all that money to bring back? (that question was only answered by some lame platitudes from TIM)

Planescape:  Torment handled death of the main character very well.  It all boiled down to a question that kept turning up throughout the game "What can change the nature of a man?"

As a plot device I didn't mind that resurrection, but I felt that the implications of this resurrection were not properly detailed, that is something I would love to see in ME3, and something I feel is really unresolved in this game. Especially when taking account of Shepard being hacked in Overlord., and the idea that maybe the reason why there wasn't much choice in going along with TIM (especially for a sole survivor) was because they DID implant some time of control chip.

"When the hero of the galaxy comes back from the dead, it should mean something.  To everyone that knew him and what he did.  Not just get discounts in stores"

Love that llne.

As to indoctrination/mind control:  At this point I think I'd settle for that.

Modifié par iakus, 30 novembre 2010 - 08:00 .

[Iakus]

darthbuert wrote...

I do believe however that the "Beings of Light" and Dark matter stand a sizable chance of becoming major Chekhov's Guns in the future...of course (****Spoilers ahead for Dragon Age: Origins) we could also be
stuck with a situation akin to Dragon Age: Origins where Morrigan leaves you with no clear explanation as to where she's going and what she'll do when she gets there. Of course the objective of the game is resolved by killing the Archdemon, but other questions are quickly raised and never clearly resolved. (end spoilers)

It's possible something similar could unfold at the end of ME3. All these nice little hints and tidbits could be left unfinished or unresolved simply for the act of driving us to speculate. Or left for future spin-off titles or DLC.

I am wondering if such a thing could be an ancient defensive system.  The "beings of light" not being creatures, but a weapon to fight the Reapers, like mass accelerator weapon that took out the Derelict Reaper.  I'd sorta expected Shepard to be looking for stuff like this in ME 2.

[darthbuert]

iakus wrote...

darthbuert wrote...

I do believe however that the "Beings of Light" and Dark matter stand a sizable chance of becoming major Chekhov's Guns in the future...of course (****Spoilers ahead for Dragon Age: Origins) we could also be
stuck with a situation akin to Dragon Age: Origins where Morrigan leaves you with no clear explanation as to where she's going and what she'll do when she gets there. Of course the objective of the game is resolved by killing the Archdemon, but other questions are quickly raised and never clearly resolved. (end spoilers)

It's possible something similar could unfold at the end of ME3. All these nice little hints and tidbits could be left unfinished or unresolved simply for the act of driving us to speculate. Or left for future spin-off titles or DLC.

I am wondering if such a thing could be an ancient defensive system.  The "beings of light" not being creatures, but a weapon to fight the Reapers, like mass accelerator weapon that took out the Derelict Reaper.  I'd sorta expected Shepard to be looking for stuff like this in ME 2.

That's an interesting thought. I like that idea...I can tell that you are one of the "deep thinkers" of the forum. That seems very plausible...

[Iakus]

darthbuert wrote...

That's an interesting thought. I like that idea...I can tell that you are one of the "deep thinkers" of the forum. That seems very plausible...

I'm not really a deep thinker.  I just like stories, and see that as an element that was sadly neglected in ME 2.

As to Klencory, I could actually imagine Kumun Shol as encountering some Prothean artifact, like another beacon, and has been doing what I fully expected Shepard to be doing in ME 2:  looking for ways to stop the Reapers.  I figure that unless some sort of deus ex machina is in the future, Shepard would need to find new weapons to face the Reapers.  Or very old weapons. 

I mean, if the cycle of destruction has been going on for millions of years, then it stands to reason that there have been any number of races at least as advanced as the current ones.  Each tried and failed to stop the Reapers.  But they must have had some ideas on stopping them.  If their better ideas could be pooled with the fleets of the present,  a victory might be achievable.

I mean, already, the Conduit has unbalanced the cycle due to the Protheans actions.  If the Conduit could be figured out, the beginnings of a relay network independant of the Citadel (and the Reapers) could be formed.  If the mass driver that made the rift on Klendagon could be reverse-engineered, that's another weapon (we know it can take out a Reaper, after all).  These "beings of light" could be a third.  And so on. 

Oh, and fyi: The "beings of light" idea I had is actually based on The Stargate tv series, where certain planetary defenses consisted of thousands of glowing explosive drones that would swarm enemy ships and blow up, tearing apart any fleet that got too close.  Ancient technology at its finest

[Fiery Phoenix]

I have to say Iakus' idea on the beings of light is very plausible. Here is the verbatim description from the Klencory entry:

Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus billionaire Kumun Shol. He claims that a vision of a higher being told him to seek on Klencory the "lost crypts of beings of light." These entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic life from synthetic "machine devils."

I think this sounds very much like a description of a weapon rather than a civilization or something along those lines.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 01 décembre 2010 - 05:39 .

[Sable Phoenix]

darthbuert wrote...

...As they say...sometimes fact is stranger than fiction...

This is a true story about a 19 year old girl frozen solid...when I first read it my mouth was open...it doesn't at all seem possible.

http://www.nytimes.c...ozen-stiff.html

That's pretty amazing.  The human body can do really wierd things sometimes; I've even listened to interviews with a woman who revived after drowning for 20 minutes, and another with a man who clinically died from cancer, was dead for 90 minutes, and revived with his cancer in full remission.  Nevertheless, those situations and the nearly-frozen girl aren't really comparable to death in vacuum.  I'll refrain from describing what happens here, this article will summarize it well enough.  A few of the things Shepard went through, at least initially, would be less severe, such as the swelling of tissues (the armor suit would have kept the pressure higher for longer so the blood would not vaporize as quickly), and she also probably had another ten seconds or so of "useful consciousness" due to the air leaking from her damaged suit rather than explosively decompressing.  None of that would really matter though.  Not only did she asphyxiate, resulting in total brain death from generalized hypoxia in ten minutes at most, but she then impacted Alchera after falling from orbit.  The remaining armor that we see at various points in the DLCs (the Normandy crash site and Lair of the Shadow Broker) is heavily damaged; the back of the cuirass in the display case in Liara's apartment looks like it was blown open with a grenade, and the helmet not only had its faceplate smashed but, even more disturbing, was left behind on Alchera.  This means that Shepard's head either tore off inside it after impact, or that it came off before impact, in which case the head would be, well, not there at all.

There is just absolutely no way to pass off what happened to Shepard as a coma or suspended animation or anything but being dead and mangled into unrecognizability.

As far as the "beings of light" and other things mentioned at various points in the codex, I agree that it would've been a better game, plot-wise, if Mass Effect 2 had dealt with the quest to find these things.  Dig up the Beings of Light on Klencory; try to salvage the mass driver that scarred Klendagon; recover the Leviathan of Dis from the batarians; even the mysterious disappearing structures in the clouds of that one gas giant could have played a part.  The assembling of a team would have involved finding the specialists that you would need to get into these places, and they could have introduced the Collectors as the mysterious enemies who show up trying to hinder you and steal away whatever you find before you can recover it for use.

Now, the accumulation of the lost technology capable of stopping the Reapers all has to take place in Mass Effect 3, in addition to the actual fight against them.  Unless it's an absolutely gigantic game, I fail to see how that can all be fit into one title.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 01 décembre 2010 - 10:23 .

[darthbuert]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

darthbuert wrote...

...As they say...sometimes fact is stranger than fiction...

This is a true story about a 19 year old girl frozen solid...when I first read it my mouth was open...it doesn't at all seem possible.

http://www.nytimes.c...ozen-stiff.html

That's pretty amazing.  The human body can do really wierd things sometimes; I've even listened to interviews with a woman who revived after drowning for 20 minutes, and another with a man who clinically died from cancer, was dead for 90 minutes, and revived with his cancer in full remission.  Nevertheless, those situations and the nearly-frozen girl aren't really comparable to death in vacuum.  I'll refrain from describing what happens here, this article will summarize it well enough.  A few of the things Shepard went through, at least initially, would be less severe, such as the swelling of tissues (the armor suit would have kept the pressure higher for longer so the blood would not vaporize as quickly), and she also probably had another ten seconds or so of "useful consciousness" due to the air leaking from her damaged suit rather than explosively decompressing.  None of that would really matter though.  Not only did she asphyxiate, resulting in total brain death from generalized hypoxia in ten minutes at most, but she then impacted Alchera after falling from orbit.  The remaining armor that we see at various points in the DLCs (the Normandy crash site and Lair of the Shadow Broker) is heavily damaged; the back of the cuirass in the display case in Liara's apartment looks like it was blown open with a grenade, and the helmet not only had its faceplate smashed but, even more disturbing, was left behind on Alchera.  This means that Shepard's head either tore off inside it after impact, or that it came off before impact, in which case the head would be, well, not there at all.

There is just absolutely no way to pass off what happened to Shepard as a coma or suspended animation or anything but being dead and mangled into unrecognizability.

Honestly...I totally agree with you. I just found that whole account very interesting and thought I'd share it.

Sable Phoenix wrote...

As far as the "beings of light" and other things mentioned at various points in the codex, I agree that it would've been a better game, plot-wise, if Mass Effect 2 had dealt with the quest to find these things.  Dig up the Beings of Light on Klencory; try to salvage the mass driver that scarred Klendagon; recover the Leviathan of Dis from the batarians; even the mysterious disappearing structures in the clouds of that one gas giant could have played a part.  The assembling of a team would have involved finding the specialists that you would need to get into these places, and they could have introduced the Collectors as the mysterious enemies who show up trying to hinder you and steal away whatever you find before you can recover it for use.

Now, the accumulation of the lost technology capable of stopping the Reapers all has to take place in Mass Effect 3, in addition to the actual fight against them.  Unless it's an absolutely gigantic game, I fail to see how that can all be fit into one title.

This is one of the fundamental issues I have with the way the game was ultimately handled. I feel that they wasted a perfect opportunity to expound upon the storyline. They went with a story idea that, though has some ties to the main story, could also be seen as a total departure of the main campaign. What we have is almost no new information that will help us on the final leg of our journey.

Shepard himself (herself) said it best when in reply to Liara in the cabin on the Normandy from LoTSB said "...I have no idea how we're going to do this..."

...No truer words have been spoken...

Mass Effect 2 should have been used to further convey the sense of urgency regarding the Reaper imminent threat invasion. Possibly explore some of the ideas (no matter how quirky) on how they plan to go about dealing with such a massive overwhelming threat. Even exploring some of the implications of the Prothean visions burned into his brain from the beacon would've been a nice plausible diversion. Remember...the reaper threat is the greatest possible menace that any evolved race can ever hope to face at this point, and they've made it clear that they intend to eradicate all life intelligent enough to know so. Instead we were effectively sent on a side mission to collect a bunch of misfits in order to halt their (not quite inept) minions. Sure we learned that the Collectors were once Protheans and repurposed by the very ones now threatening all sentient life now, but other than that...what have we learned or gained from the experience? The Reapers are certainly no less powerful now than they were at the end of Mass Effect 1. And the Alliance is in no position at this moment to be able to fight them. In fact they still fall on the failed logic that the Reapers don't even exist, that we're up against evolved Geth.

If the Reapers somehow found a way to open the Citadel Relay and jump to council space now, all life as we know it would be seriously screwed. We don't know how to defeat the Reapers, we don't know who built them, we don't even know how many of them there truly are except through cryptic statements made about them "darkening the sky" and being "legions..."...in short we know nothing. We know almost exactly as much now as we did at the end of Mass Effect 1. What we have learned, I can seriously say that they could have honestly gotten away with saving and revealing in spin-off media, and not wasting actual gameplay for those reveals in ME2. None of it really helps in light of the Reaper threat.

With that said, I have serious doubts as to how effectively the narrative will convey all the necessary events that must take place within the context of the story for it to be a worthwhile conclusion.

My greatest fear for ME3 is that it will by necessity be an abbreviated campaign in order to fit all the necessary themes and items in. How will they adequately convey the love-interest issue? Those characters are supposedly going to factor in heavily in the next game, but in what capacity? Will it be limited to main plot involvement, or will they somehow squeeze in personal plot development as well? If so, how well will it be handled? We've already seen an example of love-interest involvement in ME2 on Horizon and Illium...both were handled questionable at best.

How will they handle the issue of the Reapers? With so many of them on their way toward the Milky-Way galaxy it seems almost impossible to be able to defeat them all, even with the combined alliances of the Quarians, Geth, Krogan and Rachni...if you consider what just one Reaper (Sovereign) did to the fleet at the battle at the Citadel...don't even get me started on the Alliance and council's inability to believe what they even see with their own eyes...

Modifié par darthbuert, 01 décembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[Iakus]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

As far as the "beings of light" and other things mentioned at various points in the codex, I agree that it would've been a better game, plot-wise, if Mass Effect 2 had dealt with the quest to find these things.  Dig up the Beings of Light on Klencory; try to salvage the mass driver that scarred Klendagon; recover the Leviathan of Dis from the batarians; even the mysterious disappearing structures in the clouds of that one gas giant could have played a part.  The assembling of a team would have involved finding the specialists that you would need to get into these places, and they could have introduced the Collectors as the mysterious enemies who show up trying to hinder you and steal away whatever you find before you can recover it for use.

Now, the accumulation of the lost technology capable of stopping the Reapers all has to take place in Mass Effect 3, in addition to the actual fight against them.  Unless it's an absolutely gigantic game, I fail to see how that can all be fit into one title.

While I would not mind a 5 disk supergame with 100+ hours of playtime per run (unless it's as thin, story-wise, as ME 2) yeah, that seems unlikely.

Though it does make me think, just how many of these "clues" have been scattered about in the first two games?  Leviathan, beings of light, and mass driver, but what else?  If the Reapers show up and find a galactic alliance of a dozen races bearing the superweapons of a dozen past civilizations, that would be a sight to see!