Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 29 avril 2011 - 04:52 .
Chekhov's Unfired Guns: Mass Effect 2 Writing and Story Discussion
Débuté par
Sable Phoenix
, nov. 19 2010 08:17
#301
Posté 29 avril 2011 - 04:52
Sable Phoenix
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A bit of an update to this conversation... a blogger has broken down and outlined just about every complaint brought up in this thread in a very concise and well-ordered plot analysis. Relevant and highly interesting.
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#302
Posté 29 avril 2011 - 05:12
Fiery Phoenix
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That article has been there for quite some time, Sable. I've read it before; I do agree that it is very well-written.
#303
Posté 29 avril 2011 - 07:19
armass
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Yeah Mass effect 2 is ridden with some strange events and plotholes. Even in the beginning i can find several like, why do the collectors not destroy or capture the escape pods of the Normandy or retrieve Shepards body, before the Shadow Broker or TIM. Why is Joker able to walk normally with his syndrome without any explanation given, how did he join Cerberus exactly? How does Shepard know about thermal clips just when he awakens? Why has he apparently forgotten everything about the akuze incident, when he is a sole survivor and did the sidequest in ME1? And it goes on...
Modifié par armass, 29 avril 2011 - 07:23 .
#304
Posté 30 avril 2011 - 03:28
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I remember watching smudboy's videos on where ME2 failed, and where it should've been perfected. He brought up some interesting points, but I feel that he was far too harsh on ME2's story. That being said, I agree with much of what he said regarding its lack of proper plot, pacing, or character development for Shepard (which the player should be able to control, but is never given the option to).
Smudboy wanted to completely rewrite ME2, with half of the main cast combined with other cast members to save time, and, what he felt, were just foolish characters to begin with. He also felt that all of the characters needed to be plot integral, so that they would have proper roles in the game. I feel, however, that these characters didn't need to be removed or combined. I'll explain why later.
You will notice that MY ME2 is very accurate to the current one. I feel that the essentials of a good story are within the strained net that is ME2's existing story, and that what needed to happen most was simple expansion. However, the very beginning, very middle, and very end do have strong differences, that address the problems of tutorials, over arching plot, and a conclusion in that respective order. So lets begin.
The TUTORIAL
1. The beginning. Recognizing that ME2 needed a tutorial makes sense to me. And I feel that this is the area where ME2 utterly failed. It had to appeal to the mainstream audience, who Bioware had to assume hadn't/wouldn't play ME1. I understand this. However, I feel that splitting the tutorial missions up, while introducing certain game types would've made more sense, allowing more story to be crammed into the beginning of the game, without skimming the story elements.
-The player designs Shepard, and instantly is able to be aboard the SR1. They can "see" their Shepard, without having to wait 10+ minutes.
-Aboard the SR1, the player will learn the basics of movement and conversation wheel while meeting the old members of your crew for either the first time, or returning time (if you played ME1). These characters will summarize different events of ME1, catching new players up on the plot so far. This also solves the problem of the VS only having a few lines in ME2's entirety, and shows how these characters changed since the first game (think of how Pressley would have changed, voicing his new found confidence for aliens to the commander).
-The player then learns to use the galaxy map, and when they pick a course, they are attacked by the Collectors.
-Now, at this point, the main events are the same, albeit with a minor change. The ship is destroyed, Shepard moves Joker to an escape pod, but is separated from his pilot. Shepard then struggles to the last remaining pod, which is heavily damaged. The commander, wounded, enters the pod, which is unable to launch in time, and is blasted out of SR1, towards the planet below.
Thus begins ME2.
-A short video illuminates (SB) agents landing on the planet, searching SR1's wreckage, finding the crashed pod, and opening it up, peering into the blackness inside to find...the Mass Effect 2 title (and an unseen Shepard).
(at the time, the player doesn't know that the agents are Shadow Broker mercs)
-The Cerberus facility is used differently for several reasons. It needs to be part two of the game's tutorial, and it needs to make sense with the story. Shepard, instead of somehow remaining intact after a fall from orbit, is killed when life support in the pod is broken. His/her body is preserved in a cryo-like state after Life Support failed in space, although Shepard's bones are broken after the escape pod collided with the planet.
Anyways. I do agree with smudboy (and many other fans) that Shepard's death has to mean something. Smudboy suggests moving it to the middle of the game, but I think it can be just as dramaic where it currently is...provided that it is more fleshed out:
Flashes of the Cipher burst across the screen.
You hear Miranda talking about Shepard being rebuilt.
Shepard wakes up for the first time; screaming in pain or shock. You hear someone (possibly Wilson) say "My god. It worked. Shepard is alive!" or something along those lines. It sounds a bit like something Frankenstein would say when his monster wakes up, but it establishes that returning from the dead means something.
Shepard wakes up for a second time, delirious this time in a white room. Officer Lawson enters, and gets Shepard to memorize his/her basic motor skills again, after prompting Shepard to stand up. Shepard tries, and falls to the floor, with very little physical strength after months on an operating table.
(there is, after all, no reason for there to be another tutorial involving learning the basics like movement, as that was covered in ME2's SR1 prologue. The scene ends)
The next scene is of Shepard getting his/her cybernetics fixed on his/her face, while (s)he inquires as to her current whereabouts. Miranda tells her that she is in a medical facility that is trying to fix her up, so that she can stop the Reapers, and that she can meet her Alliance Admirals later (an obvious lie, but Shep is still under heavy drugs). As you leave the operating room, you here a Cerberus agent asking questions about recent human colonies that have fallen silent.
The next scene is of Shepard repairing a gun, as part of a memory test. Shepard explains that he/she doesn't understand what a thermal clip is, thus introducing new and old players to thermal clips, and their uses. Wilson explains, and then instructs Shepard to shoot the targets on the walls. As you all probably will have already realized, this is the tutorial to gun play (or biotics) in the game. After mastering the combat in the tutorial, Shepard is stunned by a vision of the Cipher, depicting Saren, the Reapers, and the Protheans. Shepard faints, and game starts up where the official ME2 begins, with Shepard waking up on a table and escaping the base.
Minor changes include:
-Shepard being more suspicious of Miranda after she kills Wilson
-Shepard being angrier upon discovering that she was saved, not by the alliance, but by Cerberus if she is a Sole Survivor
-TIM explaining that he wont send a ship of specialists through the Omega 4, without knowing what is beyond it. He is developing special probes with automated FTL systems to survey the other side of the Relay, before bringing back results/footage.
-Shepard gets a debriefing from either Miranda, TIM, or Jacob on each dossier, detailing their abilities, history, and what purpose they might hypothetically serve.
The OVERALL PLOT
Smudboy is write, I think, when he says that the real enemy of ME2 should've been the Reapers. However, I feel that he goes to the extreme, by making Shepard become a sort of diplomat that needs to convince every race to fight the Reapers. This is extremely premature, considering that we don't know how ME3 will pan out.
Hence, I keep ME2's plot more or less the same, with changes being acknowledgement that:
-Shepard is copping with his/her death (this influences how Tali, Miranda, and Garrus respect you)
-The specialists have fluctuating faith in their abilities to carry out the ever looming threat of the final suicide mission
-Shepard doesn't know how or where the collectors will strike.
While I wouldn't change the existing ME2 small Collector/Reaper plot, I would add to it.
4 missions involving the collectors and their abductions would be added. Each of these missions would be a mini suicide mission. One character can die each mission. This does not include Horizon, or the Derelict Collector Ship. These missions can be tackled in any order.
Freedom's progress is the same, except that Tali is more suspicious of Shepard when she is first reunited with him.
Horizon is the same, except for the very ending discussion with VS. Shepard can now explain himself to Ash/Kaiden more thoroughly.
Additional Mission - Ambushing the Collectors. At Feris Fields, you and your team are finally given the option to ambush the Collectors with some preparation. All squad mates go with you, but like the suicide mission, they are separated due to mission objectives. Feris Fields is a semi large colony, so deciding whether protecting the innocent, or killing the collectors is very important.
Additional Mission - Hunting the Collectors. A small squad of Collectors are harvesting a hive of Rachni on a distant planet. With your own small squad, you will go in and stop the abductions, and find out what the purpose of this odd Collector mission. Renegade points and heavy credits for capturing the rachni and giving them to Cerberus. Special biotic power for capturing the collectors, although they will eventually die after losing Harbinger's control. Heavy Paragon points for freeing the rachni (provided the Queen is still alive), and gaining a rachni biotic power. Heavy Renegade points for killing both races.
Additional Mission - Saving a Science Team. You go to rescue a small science team who has discovered a Prothean artifact. The artifact started sending signals into space once activated, and a small Collector vessel arrived almost at once. If You have not boarded the Derelict Ship, Shepard and the science team will wonder why the Collectors were so eager to find this artifact. If you have already completed the Derelict Ship mission, Shepard will explain the the scientists that the Collectors are repurposed Protheans, and that Collectors were probably designed by the Reapers to attack anyone who uncovered such relics, so that younger races wouldn't discover the Reaper-Cycle plot.
Additional Mission - Geth and Collectors. Shepard and company discover that the main Collector vessel is attacking a Geth ship over a tropical world. This seems odd if you haven't picked up Legion, because Shepard will assume that the Geth and Collectors would cooperate. If you do have Legion with you, he will explain that the two races are fighting over something unspecific (Legion will have hacked the Geth transmissions). Using stealth, you land on the planet where the Geth ship is crashed, and sneak about to find out what is happening. The Geth and Collector forces are fighting on the ground, but you can see that a small Geth company is sneaking a Geth relic into a large cave, and avoiding the main fight, Shepard and company must infiltrate the cave to discover the location and purpose of this geth artifact. It is discovered, that the Geth are actually on the verge of discovering the Reapers true plans for their species (destruction), and if the Geth find this out, they might reconsider their alliance with their gods (these are the Heretics). If Legion is with you on this mission, he will encourage you to let the Geth keep the relic. If Miranda is with you, she will encourage you to destroy the relic, and the Geth. If Tali is with you, depending on her loyalty status, she will either encourage you to allow her to bring the relic to her people for study, or give it to Legion.
These four missions push the idea that the real threat in the galaxy is actually the Reapers, but that they are a looming storm, while the Collectors are the main enemy. It keeps the main plot on course, and allows the jarringly different loyalty missions to be more forgivable as distractions to the overall story.
The CONCLUSION
Finally we come to the end. This is the only part I would have actually redesigned.
Shepard and company are tricked into believing that a large Collector force is attacking a medium sized human colony. When the entire team arrives to find the colony is fine, they realize the trap. The Collectors abduct the Normandy's crew, pressing the player to hurry to their rescue.
Smudboy believed that the ending needed to be big, dramatic, and utilize all of the races duking it out with the Collectors. However, as ME3 isn't out yet, I think that he's just too eager to unite a front against the Reaper threat.
I feel that what is important is the crew of the SR2 functioning as a unit, and supporting each other as they go to what is almost certainly death.
After completing the four missions + the official game missions, moral on the SR2 is either high (from your success rate), low (from the number of people lost along the way) or so so (a combination of high success, and a few loses). TIM recovers only one of his Omega 4 Probes, and the entire SR2 crew sees what lies beyond the Omega 4 Relay: A burning abyss or radiation, solar flares, black holes and exploding worlds. There is a small habitable tunnel forged by the Collectors, cluttered with ancient ship wreckage, which makes a straight and narrow path to the Collector base, which is a horrifying construct of unrivaled power.
This briefing is in the game for several reasons:
-To demoralize the crew, lending a feeling of desperation. This doesn't meant that everyone will be scared however. Grunt, Mordin, and Samara will be confident. However the rest of the crew will be uneasy about their chances. This gives the player the chance to re motivate them.
-To build a feeling of isolation. Shepard and his crew need to start feeling completely isolated from the rest of the galaxy. This mission needs to emphasize that, unlike in ME1, Shepard is in this alone. No orders, and no direction.
-For you to evaluate your chances. Depending on how many crew mates are left, this could turn out very badly for you. This will force even the most casual of players to consider their looming choices.
Now the rest of the game is more or less the same. Once through the Omega 4, Joker flies through that "Valley" of habitable space. Depending on ship upgrades, you can defeat the Collector Vessel with various levels of success.
HOWEVER
Rather than crash landing on the Collector Base's side, you crash in its hangar bay. It just makes more sense.
If you have the Hammerhead DLC, you can initially use the Hammerhead to destroy certain of the bases comm towers, scrambling the collector response to your infiltration.
However, the Hammerhead will get damaged, and the player will have to assign a tech expert (best choices are Tali, Mordin, or Legion) to repair the craft while the rest of the team move on, or they can leave the Hammerhead.
Another change I've added are the Fire team leaders.
Depending on their success in the mini suicide missions, every character except Grunt, Legion, Jack, and Kasumi will make good squad leaders.
Kasumi or Thane will make the best infiltrator to break into a Collector security room to shut off cameras.
Thane, Garrus, and Legion will make the best snipers for covering the surviving abducted Cerberus crew and human colonists.
Jack and Samara will make the best biotics for stopping the seeker swarms, and Miranda can be trained to also fulfill that role.
For holding off Collectors that are trying to attack the Normandy, Grunt, Jacob, or Zaeed will make the best specialist.
Shepard fights his/her way to her first vocal confrontation with a grunt Collector-Harbinger, who, like a mad scientist, is hurriedly activating a human Reaper core. It is revealed that Harbinger wanted Shepard's body so that he could use the Prothean data to create a hybrid Prothean/Human Reaper.
You destroy the Reaper Core.
You can choose to destroy the base, or give it to Cerberus. Rather than Shepard coming off as an idealistic cheerleader, the moral debate between keeping the base and getting rid of it is made more grey by the fact that it is full or Reaper technology that can easily indoctrinate humans (whose husks are the main slave force, driving the base and processing humans) or keeping the base as a tool against the Reapers.
If Shepard destroys the base, he will flood its engines with liquids, causing the base to lose power, and be vacuumed into a black hole.
If you keep the base, Shepard will unleash a toxin that will only kill the collectors, but leave the Husks behind to keep it running, at least until Cerberus ships recover it.
Shepard (and his squad) is picked up by his tech specialist in the repaired Hammerhead, and they escape the crumbling/fuming base.
The story ends just like ME2 ends.
Smudboy wanted to completely rewrite ME2, with half of the main cast combined with other cast members to save time, and, what he felt, were just foolish characters to begin with. He also felt that all of the characters needed to be plot integral, so that they would have proper roles in the game. I feel, however, that these characters didn't need to be removed or combined. I'll explain why later.
You will notice that MY ME2 is very accurate to the current one. I feel that the essentials of a good story are within the strained net that is ME2's existing story, and that what needed to happen most was simple expansion. However, the very beginning, very middle, and very end do have strong differences, that address the problems of tutorials, over arching plot, and a conclusion in that respective order. So lets begin.
The TUTORIAL
1. The beginning. Recognizing that ME2 needed a tutorial makes sense to me. And I feel that this is the area where ME2 utterly failed. It had to appeal to the mainstream audience, who Bioware had to assume hadn't/wouldn't play ME1. I understand this. However, I feel that splitting the tutorial missions up, while introducing certain game types would've made more sense, allowing more story to be crammed into the beginning of the game, without skimming the story elements.
-The player designs Shepard, and instantly is able to be aboard the SR1. They can "see" their Shepard, without having to wait 10+ minutes.
-Aboard the SR1, the player will learn the basics of movement and conversation wheel while meeting the old members of your crew for either the first time, or returning time (if you played ME1). These characters will summarize different events of ME1, catching new players up on the plot so far. This also solves the problem of the VS only having a few lines in ME2's entirety, and shows how these characters changed since the first game (think of how Pressley would have changed, voicing his new found confidence for aliens to the commander).
-The player then learns to use the galaxy map, and when they pick a course, they are attacked by the Collectors.
-Now, at this point, the main events are the same, albeit with a minor change. The ship is destroyed, Shepard moves Joker to an escape pod, but is separated from his pilot. Shepard then struggles to the last remaining pod, which is heavily damaged. The commander, wounded, enters the pod, which is unable to launch in time, and is blasted out of SR1, towards the planet below.
Thus begins ME2.
-A short video illuminates (SB) agents landing on the planet, searching SR1's wreckage, finding the crashed pod, and opening it up, peering into the blackness inside to find...the Mass Effect 2 title (and an unseen Shepard).
(at the time, the player doesn't know that the agents are Shadow Broker mercs)
-The Cerberus facility is used differently for several reasons. It needs to be part two of the game's tutorial, and it needs to make sense with the story. Shepard, instead of somehow remaining intact after a fall from orbit, is killed when life support in the pod is broken. His/her body is preserved in a cryo-like state after Life Support failed in space, although Shepard's bones are broken after the escape pod collided with the planet.
Anyways. I do agree with smudboy (and many other fans) that Shepard's death has to mean something. Smudboy suggests moving it to the middle of the game, but I think it can be just as dramaic where it currently is...provided that it is more fleshed out:
Flashes of the Cipher burst across the screen.
You hear Miranda talking about Shepard being rebuilt.
Shepard wakes up for the first time; screaming in pain or shock. You hear someone (possibly Wilson) say "My god. It worked. Shepard is alive!" or something along those lines. It sounds a bit like something Frankenstein would say when his monster wakes up, but it establishes that returning from the dead means something.
Shepard wakes up for a second time, delirious this time in a white room. Officer Lawson enters, and gets Shepard to memorize his/her basic motor skills again, after prompting Shepard to stand up. Shepard tries, and falls to the floor, with very little physical strength after months on an operating table.
(there is, after all, no reason for there to be another tutorial involving learning the basics like movement, as that was covered in ME2's SR1 prologue. The scene ends)
The next scene is of Shepard getting his/her cybernetics fixed on his/her face, while (s)he inquires as to her current whereabouts. Miranda tells her that she is in a medical facility that is trying to fix her up, so that she can stop the Reapers, and that she can meet her Alliance Admirals later (an obvious lie, but Shep is still under heavy drugs). As you leave the operating room, you here a Cerberus agent asking questions about recent human colonies that have fallen silent.
The next scene is of Shepard repairing a gun, as part of a memory test. Shepard explains that he/she doesn't understand what a thermal clip is, thus introducing new and old players to thermal clips, and their uses. Wilson explains, and then instructs Shepard to shoot the targets on the walls. As you all probably will have already realized, this is the tutorial to gun play (or biotics) in the game. After mastering the combat in the tutorial, Shepard is stunned by a vision of the Cipher, depicting Saren, the Reapers, and the Protheans. Shepard faints, and game starts up where the official ME2 begins, with Shepard waking up on a table and escaping the base.
Minor changes include:
-Shepard being more suspicious of Miranda after she kills Wilson
-Shepard being angrier upon discovering that she was saved, not by the alliance, but by Cerberus if she is a Sole Survivor
-TIM explaining that he wont send a ship of specialists through the Omega 4, without knowing what is beyond it. He is developing special probes with automated FTL systems to survey the other side of the Relay, before bringing back results/footage.
-Shepard gets a debriefing from either Miranda, TIM, or Jacob on each dossier, detailing their abilities, history, and what purpose they might hypothetically serve.
The OVERALL PLOT
Smudboy is write, I think, when he says that the real enemy of ME2 should've been the Reapers. However, I feel that he goes to the extreme, by making Shepard become a sort of diplomat that needs to convince every race to fight the Reapers. This is extremely premature, considering that we don't know how ME3 will pan out.
Hence, I keep ME2's plot more or less the same, with changes being acknowledgement that:
-Shepard is copping with his/her death (this influences how Tali, Miranda, and Garrus respect you)
-The specialists have fluctuating faith in their abilities to carry out the ever looming threat of the final suicide mission
-Shepard doesn't know how or where the collectors will strike.
While I wouldn't change the existing ME2 small Collector/Reaper plot, I would add to it.
4 missions involving the collectors and their abductions would be added. Each of these missions would be a mini suicide mission. One character can die each mission. This does not include Horizon, or the Derelict Collector Ship. These missions can be tackled in any order.
Freedom's progress is the same, except that Tali is more suspicious of Shepard when she is first reunited with him.
Horizon is the same, except for the very ending discussion with VS. Shepard can now explain himself to Ash/Kaiden more thoroughly.
Additional Mission - Ambushing the Collectors. At Feris Fields, you and your team are finally given the option to ambush the Collectors with some preparation. All squad mates go with you, but like the suicide mission, they are separated due to mission objectives. Feris Fields is a semi large colony, so deciding whether protecting the innocent, or killing the collectors is very important.
Additional Mission - Hunting the Collectors. A small squad of Collectors are harvesting a hive of Rachni on a distant planet. With your own small squad, you will go in and stop the abductions, and find out what the purpose of this odd Collector mission. Renegade points and heavy credits for capturing the rachni and giving them to Cerberus. Special biotic power for capturing the collectors, although they will eventually die after losing Harbinger's control. Heavy Paragon points for freeing the rachni (provided the Queen is still alive), and gaining a rachni biotic power. Heavy Renegade points for killing both races.
Additional Mission - Saving a Science Team. You go to rescue a small science team who has discovered a Prothean artifact. The artifact started sending signals into space once activated, and a small Collector vessel arrived almost at once. If You have not boarded the Derelict Ship, Shepard and the science team will wonder why the Collectors were so eager to find this artifact. If you have already completed the Derelict Ship mission, Shepard will explain the the scientists that the Collectors are repurposed Protheans, and that Collectors were probably designed by the Reapers to attack anyone who uncovered such relics, so that younger races wouldn't discover the Reaper-Cycle plot.
Additional Mission - Geth and Collectors. Shepard and company discover that the main Collector vessel is attacking a Geth ship over a tropical world. This seems odd if you haven't picked up Legion, because Shepard will assume that the Geth and Collectors would cooperate. If you do have Legion with you, he will explain that the two races are fighting over something unspecific (Legion will have hacked the Geth transmissions). Using stealth, you land on the planet where the Geth ship is crashed, and sneak about to find out what is happening. The Geth and Collector forces are fighting on the ground, but you can see that a small Geth company is sneaking a Geth relic into a large cave, and avoiding the main fight, Shepard and company must infiltrate the cave to discover the location and purpose of this geth artifact. It is discovered, that the Geth are actually on the verge of discovering the Reapers true plans for their species (destruction), and if the Geth find this out, they might reconsider their alliance with their gods (these are the Heretics). If Legion is with you on this mission, he will encourage you to let the Geth keep the relic. If Miranda is with you, she will encourage you to destroy the relic, and the Geth. If Tali is with you, depending on her loyalty status, she will either encourage you to allow her to bring the relic to her people for study, or give it to Legion.
These four missions push the idea that the real threat in the galaxy is actually the Reapers, but that they are a looming storm, while the Collectors are the main enemy. It keeps the main plot on course, and allows the jarringly different loyalty missions to be more forgivable as distractions to the overall story.
The CONCLUSION
Finally we come to the end. This is the only part I would have actually redesigned.
Shepard and company are tricked into believing that a large Collector force is attacking a medium sized human colony. When the entire team arrives to find the colony is fine, they realize the trap. The Collectors abduct the Normandy's crew, pressing the player to hurry to their rescue.
Smudboy believed that the ending needed to be big, dramatic, and utilize all of the races duking it out with the Collectors. However, as ME3 isn't out yet, I think that he's just too eager to unite a front against the Reaper threat.
I feel that what is important is the crew of the SR2 functioning as a unit, and supporting each other as they go to what is almost certainly death.
After completing the four missions + the official game missions, moral on the SR2 is either high (from your success rate), low (from the number of people lost along the way) or so so (a combination of high success, and a few loses). TIM recovers only one of his Omega 4 Probes, and the entire SR2 crew sees what lies beyond the Omega 4 Relay: A burning abyss or radiation, solar flares, black holes and exploding worlds. There is a small habitable tunnel forged by the Collectors, cluttered with ancient ship wreckage, which makes a straight and narrow path to the Collector base, which is a horrifying construct of unrivaled power.
This briefing is in the game for several reasons:
-To demoralize the crew, lending a feeling of desperation. This doesn't meant that everyone will be scared however. Grunt, Mordin, and Samara will be confident. However the rest of the crew will be uneasy about their chances. This gives the player the chance to re motivate them.
-To build a feeling of isolation. Shepard and his crew need to start feeling completely isolated from the rest of the galaxy. This mission needs to emphasize that, unlike in ME1, Shepard is in this alone. No orders, and no direction.
-For you to evaluate your chances. Depending on how many crew mates are left, this could turn out very badly for you. This will force even the most casual of players to consider their looming choices.
Now the rest of the game is more or less the same. Once through the Omega 4, Joker flies through that "Valley" of habitable space. Depending on ship upgrades, you can defeat the Collector Vessel with various levels of success.
HOWEVER
Rather than crash landing on the Collector Base's side, you crash in its hangar bay. It just makes more sense.
If you have the Hammerhead DLC, you can initially use the Hammerhead to destroy certain of the bases comm towers, scrambling the collector response to your infiltration.
However, the Hammerhead will get damaged, and the player will have to assign a tech expert (best choices are Tali, Mordin, or Legion) to repair the craft while the rest of the team move on, or they can leave the Hammerhead.
Another change I've added are the Fire team leaders.
Depending on their success in the mini suicide missions, every character except Grunt, Legion, Jack, and Kasumi will make good squad leaders.
Kasumi or Thane will make the best infiltrator to break into a Collector security room to shut off cameras.
Thane, Garrus, and Legion will make the best snipers for covering the surviving abducted Cerberus crew and human colonists.
Jack and Samara will make the best biotics for stopping the seeker swarms, and Miranda can be trained to also fulfill that role.
For holding off Collectors that are trying to attack the Normandy, Grunt, Jacob, or Zaeed will make the best specialist.
Shepard fights his/her way to her first vocal confrontation with a grunt Collector-Harbinger, who, like a mad scientist, is hurriedly activating a human Reaper core. It is revealed that Harbinger wanted Shepard's body so that he could use the Prothean data to create a hybrid Prothean/Human Reaper.
You destroy the Reaper Core.
You can choose to destroy the base, or give it to Cerberus. Rather than Shepard coming off as an idealistic cheerleader, the moral debate between keeping the base and getting rid of it is made more grey by the fact that it is full or Reaper technology that can easily indoctrinate humans (whose husks are the main slave force, driving the base and processing humans) or keeping the base as a tool against the Reapers.
If Shepard destroys the base, he will flood its engines with liquids, causing the base to lose power, and be vacuumed into a black hole.
If you keep the base, Shepard will unleash a toxin that will only kill the collectors, but leave the Husks behind to keep it running, at least until Cerberus ships recover it.
Shepard (and his squad) is picked up by his tech specialist in the repaired Hammerhead, and they escape the crumbling/fuming base.
The story ends just like ME2 ends.
#305
Posté 30 avril 2011 - 03:49
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The DLCs also expand the story more.
The Hammerhead DLC unlocks three small missions titled "Saren's Wake". Shepard searches for Reaper/Prothean secrets that the late Spectre may have left behind. These missions involve driving the Hammerhead around three different worlds, looking for Prothean artifacts, until you discover a Reaper relic at the end which (the Cipher shows) indoctrinated Saren.
Project Overlord is more or less the same, except that it questions the morality of tampering with AIs.
-Legion will be worried about the effects that it will have on his people if given to Cerberus.
-Tali will want the data to send to the Admiralty Board aboard the Flotilla, or she'll want to give it to Legion (depending on Loyalty mission).
-Miranda and Jacob will be conflicted by the Cerberus ethics that caused so much death, and will question their loyalty to Cerberus.
-Jack will be furious that David was allowed to endure so much torture at the hands of Cerberus. She will want to kill Gavin Archer at the end of the DLC, and will want you to help David. If you don't, she will not romance Shepard.
-Mordin will explain the cultures of the Geth (with Legion), and compare the AI experiments to his ethically sticky work with the Genophage.
Overlord also has the Reaper-curtain threat, like all of the DLCs. The occasional mention of how the AI research may help Cerberus fight the Geth/Reapers is subtle, but there to maintain plot relativeness.
LOTSB DLC almost perfect. Shepard can sadly agree with Tela Vasir when she compares his allegiance to Cerberus to her own allegiance with the Shadow Broker. Also, Tela Vasir will react to certain squadmates when she meets Shepard in Liara's apartment:
-She will be impressed by Garrus, Thane
-She will warn Jack to stay away from the Illium authorities
-She will be facinated with Legion
-She will be slightly afraid of Samara.
Arrival DLC is both great and awful. The main elements remain the same, except that Shepard is is put in Stasis for two days, and is only able to break free when a power fluctuation from close proximity with the Alpha Relay allows the stasis field to drop (hell, for the whole station to lose power momentarily, before back up generators kick in). Shepard must fight his way back to his armor and weapons, then call in an infiltrator to commandeer the radio tower of Rho's research facility to alert the Normandy while he does off to reactivate the asteroid's thrusters (which Rho's agents are deactivating). Shepard defies Harbinger's hologram. In anger (or whatever Reapers feel) Harbingers hologram electrifies Shepard's infiltrator, before mocking Shepard, and vanishing. Shepard drags his ally aboard the Normandy. The system explodes, and the remaining members of SR2 stare, stunned, at Shepard. DLC ends like normal. Infiltrator is revealed to be fine.
The Hammerhead DLC unlocks three small missions titled "Saren's Wake". Shepard searches for Reaper/Prothean secrets that the late Spectre may have left behind. These missions involve driving the Hammerhead around three different worlds, looking for Prothean artifacts, until you discover a Reaper relic at the end which (the Cipher shows) indoctrinated Saren.
Project Overlord is more or less the same, except that it questions the morality of tampering with AIs.
-Legion will be worried about the effects that it will have on his people if given to Cerberus.
-Tali will want the data to send to the Admiralty Board aboard the Flotilla, or she'll want to give it to Legion (depending on Loyalty mission).
-Miranda and Jacob will be conflicted by the Cerberus ethics that caused so much death, and will question their loyalty to Cerberus.
-Jack will be furious that David was allowed to endure so much torture at the hands of Cerberus. She will want to kill Gavin Archer at the end of the DLC, and will want you to help David. If you don't, she will not romance Shepard.
-Mordin will explain the cultures of the Geth (with Legion), and compare the AI experiments to his ethically sticky work with the Genophage.
Overlord also has the Reaper-curtain threat, like all of the DLCs. The occasional mention of how the AI research may help Cerberus fight the Geth/Reapers is subtle, but there to maintain plot relativeness.
LOTSB DLC almost perfect. Shepard can sadly agree with Tela Vasir when she compares his allegiance to Cerberus to her own allegiance with the Shadow Broker. Also, Tela Vasir will react to certain squadmates when she meets Shepard in Liara's apartment:
-She will be impressed by Garrus, Thane
-She will warn Jack to stay away from the Illium authorities
-She will be facinated with Legion
-She will be slightly afraid of Samara.
Arrival DLC is both great and awful. The main elements remain the same, except that Shepard is is put in Stasis for two days, and is only able to break free when a power fluctuation from close proximity with the Alpha Relay allows the stasis field to drop (hell, for the whole station to lose power momentarily, before back up generators kick in). Shepard must fight his way back to his armor and weapons, then call in an infiltrator to commandeer the radio tower of Rho's research facility to alert the Normandy while he does off to reactivate the asteroid's thrusters (which Rho's agents are deactivating). Shepard defies Harbinger's hologram. In anger (or whatever Reapers feel) Harbingers hologram electrifies Shepard's infiltrator, before mocking Shepard, and vanishing. Shepard drags his ally aboard the Normandy. The system explodes, and the remaining members of SR2 stare, stunned, at Shepard. DLC ends like normal. Infiltrator is revealed to be fine.
Modifié par 100k, 02 mai 2011 - 08:07 .
#306
Posté 30 avril 2011 - 04:19
CulturalGeekGirl
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Reading the OP for the first time, I have something to add at this late date. I'd argue that we haven't reached Act 3 yet. Or rather... we haven't reached act 3-3.
For Mass Effect's overarching plot, ME1 is Act 1, ME2 is Act 2, and ME3 is Act 3. The smaller plots of each individual game also have their three act structures, but a lot of guns that are as-yet-unfired may go off in the true third act... that being Mass Effect 3.
This also brings to mind a new rule a friend of mine once posited: Chekov's Set Design.
"An armchair brought on stage in the first act doesn't have to do anything in the third. It is just an armchair. Why are you so worried about the goddam armchair! I bought it for like $6 at Goodwill. No that's not supposed to be a bloodstain!"
For Mass Effect's overarching plot, ME1 is Act 1, ME2 is Act 2, and ME3 is Act 3. The smaller plots of each individual game also have their three act structures, but a lot of guns that are as-yet-unfired may go off in the true third act... that being Mass Effect 3.
This also brings to mind a new rule a friend of mine once posited: Chekov's Set Design.
"An armchair brought on stage in the first act doesn't have to do anything in the third. It is just an armchair. Why are you so worried about the goddam armchair! I bought it for like $6 at Goodwill. No that's not supposed to be a bloodstain!"
Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 30 avril 2011 - 04:22 .
#307
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 06:22
darthbuert
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100k wrote...
I remember watching smudboy's videos on where ME2 failed, and where it should've been perfected. He brought up some interesting points, but I feel that he was far too harsh on ME2's story. That being said, I agree with much of what he said regarding its lack of proper plot, pacing, or character development for Shepard (which the player should be able to control, but is never given the option to).
Smudboy wanted to completely rewrite ME2, with half of the main cast combined with other cast members to save time, and, what he felt, were just foolish characters to begin with. He also felt that all of the characters needed to be plot integral, so that they would have proper roles in the game. I feel, however, that these characters didn't need to be removed or combined. I'll explain why later.
You will notice that MY ME2 is very accurate to the current one. I feel that the essentials of a good story are within the strained net that is ME2's existing story, and that what needed to happen most was simple expansion. However, the very beginning, very middle, and very end do have strong differences, that address the problems of tutorials, over arching plot, and a conclusion in that respective order. So lets begin.
The TUTORIAL
1. The beginning. Recognizing that ME2 needed a tutorial makes sense to me. And I feel that this is the area where ME2 utterly failed. It had to appeal to the mainstream audience, who Bioware had to assume hadn't/wouldn't play ME1. I understand this. However, I feel that splitting the tutorial missions up, while introducing certain game types would've made more sense, allowing more story to be crammed into the beginning of the game, without skimming the story elements.
-The player designs Shepard, and instantly is able to be aboard the SR1. They can "see" their Shepard, without having to wait 10+ minutes.
-Aboard the SR1, the player will learn the basics of movement and conversation wheel while meeting the old members of your crew for either the first time, or returning time (if you played ME1). These characters will summarize different events of ME1, catching new players up on the plot so far. This also solves the problem of the VS only having a few lines in ME2's entirety, and shows how these characters changed since the first game (think of how Pressley would have changed, voicing his new found confidence for aliens to the commander).
-The player then learns to use the galaxy map, and when they pick a course, they are attacked by the Collectors.
-Now, at this point, the main events are the same, albeit with a minor change. The ship is destroyed, Shepard moves Joker to an escape pod, but is separated from his pilot. Shepard then struggles to the last remaining pod, which is heavily damaged. The commander, wounded, enters the pod, which is unable to launch in time, and is blasted out of SR1, towards the planet below.
Thus begins ME2.
-A short video illuminates (SB) agents landing on the planet, searching SR1's wreckage, finding the crashed pod, and opening it up, peering into the blackness inside to find...the Mass Effect 2 title (and an unseen Shepard).
(at the time, the player doesn't know that the agents are Shadow Broker mercs)
-The Cerberus facility is used differently for several reasons. It needs to be part two of the game's tutorial, and it needs to make sense with the story. Shepard, instead of somehow remaining intact after a fall from orbit, is killed when life support in the pod is broken. His/her body is preserved in a cryo-like state after Life Support failed in space, although Shepard's bones are broken after the escape pod collided with the planet.
Anyways. I do agree with smudboy (and many other fans) that Shepard's death has to mean something. Smudboy suggests moving it to the middle of the game, but I think it can be just as dramaic where it currently is...provided that it is more fleshed out:
Flashes of the Cipher burst across the screen.
You hear Miranda talking about Shepard being rebuilt.
Shepard wakes up for the first time; screaming in pain or shock. You hear someone (possibly Wilson) say "My god. It worked. Shepard is alive!" or something along those lines. It sounds a bit like something Frankenstein would say when his monster wakes up, but it establishes that returning from the dead means something.
Shepard wakes up for a second time, delirious this time in a white room. Officer Lawson enters, and gets Shepard to memorize his/her basic motor skills again, after prompting Shepard to stand up. Shepard tries, and falls to the floor, with very little physical strength after months on an operating table.
(there is, after all, no reason for there to be another tutorial involving learning the basics like movement, as that was covered in ME2's SR1 prologue. The scene ends)
The next scene is of Shepard getting his/her cybernetics fixed on his/her face, while (s)he inquires as to her current whereabouts. Miranda tells her that she is in a medical facility that is trying to fix her up, so that she can stop the Reapers, and that she can meet her Alliance Admirals later (an obvious lie, but Shep is still under heavy drugs). As you leave the operating room, you here a Cerberus agent asking questions about recent human colonies that have fallen silent.
The next scene is of Shepard repairing a gun, as part of a memory test. Shepard explains that he/she doesn't understand what a thermal clip is, thus introducing new and old players to thermal clips, and their uses. Wilson explains, and then instructs Shepard to shoot the targets on the walls. As you all probably will have already realized, this is the tutorial to gun play (or biotics) in the game. After mastering the combat in the tutorial, Shepard is stunned by a vision of the Cipher, depicting Saren, the Reapers, and the Protheans. Shepard faints, and game starts up where the official ME2 begins, with Shepard waking up on a table and escaping the base.
Minor changes include:
-Shepard being more suspicious of Miranda after she kills Wilson
-Shepard being angrier upon discovering that she was saved, not by the alliance, but by Cerberus if she is a Sole Survivor
-TIM explaining that he wont send a ship of specialists through the Omega 4, without knowing what is beyond it. He is developing special probes with automated FTL systems to survey the other side of the Relay, before bringing back results/footage.
-Shepard gets a debriefing from either Miranda, TIM, or Jacob on each dossier, detailing their abilities, history, and what purpose they might hypothetically serve.
The OVERALL PLOT
Smudboy is write, I think, when he says that the real enemy of ME2 should've been the Reapers. However, I feel that he goes to the extreme, by making Shepard become a sort of diplomat that needs to convince every race to fight the Reapers. This is extremely premature, considering that we don't know how ME3 will pan out.
Hence, I keep ME2's plot more or less the same, with changes being acknowledgement that:
-Shepard is copping with his/her death (this influences how Tali, Miranda, and Garrus respect you)
-The specialists have fluctuating faith in their abilities to carry out the ever looming threat of the final suicide mission
-Shepard doesn't know how or where the collectors will strike.
While I wouldn't change the existing ME2 small Collector/Reaper plot, I would add to it.
4 missions involving the collectors and their abductions would be added. Each of these missions would be a mini suicide mission. One character can die each mission. This does not include Horizon, or the Derelict Collector Ship. These missions can be tackled in any order.
Freedom's progress is the same, except that Tali is more suspicious of Shepard when she is first reunited with him.
Horizon is the same, except for the very ending discussion with VS. Shepard can now explain himself to Ash/Kaiden more thoroughly.
Additional Mission - Ambushing the Collectors. At Feris Fields, you and your team are finally given the option to ambush the Collectors with some preparation. All squad mates go with you, but like the suicide mission, they are separated due to mission objectives. Feris Fields is a semi large colony, so deciding whether protecting the innocent, or killing the collectors is very important.
Additional Mission - Hunting the Collectors. A small squad of Collectors are harvesting a hive of Rachni on a distant planet. With your own small squad, you will go in and stop the abductions, and find out what the purpose of this odd Collector mission. Renegade points and heavy credits for capturing the rachni and giving them to Cerberus. Special biotic power for capturing the collectors, although they will eventually die after losing Harbinger's control. Heavy Paragon points for freeing the rachni (provided the Queen is still alive), and gaining a rachni biotic power. Heavy Renegade points for killing both races.
Additional Mission - Saving a Science Team. You go to rescue a small science team who has discovered a Prothean artifact. The artifact started sending signals into space once activated, and a small Collector vessel arrived almost at once. If You have not boarded the Derelict Ship, Shepard and the science team will wonder why the Collectors were so eager to find this artifact. If you have already completed the Derelict Ship mission, Shepard will explain the the scientists that the Collectors are repurposed Protheans, and that Collectors were probably designed by the Reapers to attack anyone who uncovered such relics, so that younger races wouldn't discover the Reaper-Cycle plot.
Additional Mission - Geth and Collectors. Shepard and company discover that the main Collector vessel is attacking a Geth ship over a tropical world. This seems odd if you haven't picked up Legion, because Shepard will assume that the Geth and Collectors would cooperate. If you do have Legion with you, he will explain that the two races are fighting over something unspecific (Legion will have hacked the Geth transmissions). Using stealth, you land on the planet where the Geth ship is crashed, and sneak about to find out what is happening. The Geth and Collector forces are fighting on the ground, but you can see that a small Geth company is sneaking a Geth relic into a large cave, and avoiding the main fight, Shepard and company must infiltrate the cave to discover the location and purpose of this geth artifact. It is discovered, that the Geth are actually on the verge of discovering the Reapers true plans for their species (destruction), and if the Geth find this out, they might reconsider their alliance with their gods (these are the Heretics). If Legion is with you on this mission, he will encourage you to let the Geth keep the relic. If Miranda is with you, she will encourage you to destroy the relic, and the Geth. If Tali is with you, depending on her loyalty status, she will either encourage you to allow her to bring the relic to her people for study, or give it to Legion.
These four missions push the idea that the real threat in the galaxy is actually the Reapers, but that they are a looming storm, while the Collectors are the main enemy. It keeps the main plot on course, and allows the jarringly different loyalty missions to be more forgivable as distractions to the overall story.
The CONCLUSION
Finally we come to the end. This is the only part I would have actually redesigned.
Shepard and company are tricked into believing that a large Collector force is attacking a medium sized human colony. When the entire team arrives to find the colony is fine, they realize the trap. The Collectors abduct the Normandy's crew, pressing the player to hurry to their rescue.
Smudboy believed that the ending needed to be big, dramatic, and utilize all of the races duking it out with the Collectors. However, as ME3 isn't out yet, I think that he's just too eager to unite a front against the Reaper threat.
I feel that what is important is the crew of the SR2 functioning as a unit, and supporting each other as they go to what is almost certainly death.
After completing the four missions + the official game missions, moral on the SR2 is either high (from your success rate), low (from the number of people lost along the way) or so so (a combination of high success, and a few loses). TIM recovers only one of his Omega 4 Probes, and the entire SR2 crew sees what lies beyond the Omega 4 Relay: A burning abyss or radiation, solar flares, black holes and exploding worlds. There is a small habitable tunnel forged by the Collectors, cluttered with ancient ship wreckage, which makes a straight and narrow path to the Collector base, which is a horrifying construct of unrivaled power.
This briefing is in the game for several reasons:
-To demoralize the crew, lending a feeling of desperation. This doesn't meant that everyone will be scared however. Grunt, Mordin, and Samara will be confident. However the rest of the crew will be uneasy about their chances. This gives the player the chance to re motivate them.
-To build a feeling of isolation. Shepard and his crew need to start feeling completely isolated from the rest of the galaxy. This mission needs to emphasize that, unlike in ME1, Shepard is in this alone. No orders, and no direction.
-For you to evaluate your chances. Depending on how many crew mates are left, this could turn out very badly for you. This will force even the most casual of players to consider their looming choices.
Now the rest of the game is more or less the same. Once through the Omega 4, Joker flies through that "Valley" of habitable space. Depending on ship upgrades, you can defeat the Collector Vessel with various levels of success.
HOWEVER
Rather than crash landing on the Collector Base's side, you crash in its hangar bay. It just makes more sense.
If you have the Hammerhead DLC, you can initially use the Hammerhead to destroy certain of the bases comm towers, scrambling the collector response to your infiltration.
However, the Hammerhead will get damaged, and the player will have to assign a tech expert (best choices are Tali, Mordin, or Legion) to repair the craft while the rest of the team move on, or they can leave the Hammerhead.
Another change I've added are the Fire team leaders.
Depending on their success in the mini suicide missions, every character except Grunt, Legion, Jack, and Kasumi will make good squad leaders.
Kasumi or Thane will make the best infiltrator to break into a Collector security room to shut off cameras.
Thane, Garrus, and Legion will make the best snipers for covering the surviving abducted Cerberus crew and human colonists.
Jack and Samara will make the best biotics for stopping the seeker swarms, and Miranda can be trained to also fulfill that role.
For holding off Collectors that are trying to attack the Normandy, Grunt, Jacob, or Zaeed will make the best specialist.
Shepard fights his/her way to her first vocal confrontation with a grunt Collector-Harbinger, who, like a mad scientist, is hurriedly activating a human Reaper core. It is revealed that Harbinger wanted Shepard's body so that he could use the Prothean data to create a hybrid Prothean/Human Reaper.
You destroy the Reaper Core.
You can choose to destroy the base, or give it to Cerberus. Rather than Shepard coming off as an idealistic cheerleader, the moral debate between keeping the base and getting rid of it is made more grey by the fact that it is full or Reaper technology that can easily indoctrinate humans (whose husks are the main slave force, driving the base and processing humans) or keeping the base as a tool against the Reapers.
If Shepard destroys the base, he will flood its engines with liquids, causing the base to lose power, and be vacuumed into a black hole.
If you keep the base, Shepard will unleash a toxin that will only kill the collectors, but leave the Husks behind to keep it running, at least until Cerberus ships recover it.
Shepard (and his squad) is picked up by his tech specialist in the repaired Hammerhead, and they escape the crumbling/fuming base.
The story ends just like ME2 ends.
Now this ^ would have made for an excellant ME sequel. All of the missions (or at least most of them) would have remained plot-relevant, and it would have provided better opportunity to delve more into Shepard's internal crisis of psyche. Perhaps delving deeper into the moral issue of "Am I really still Shepard...or a copy?" . I like your ideas.
For the DLC stuf...one thing I would like to add; in the "Arrival" DLC they missed a pretty decent opportunity to retroactively add Kasumi as a playable character for those who may not have bought her DLC pack. Just think of it...Hackett wanted Shepard to go it alone on the mission. Why? Reasons related to stealth. Both Thane and Kasumi are taylor made to shine in such a mission. He/she could have brought them along to aid him with their expertise. If I were trying to secretly sneak into a prison they are the ones I would definitely take. A brief little intro could've been made to introduce Kasumi if she wasn't already a member (perhaps Hackett mentioning that she will meet Shepard there to let him/her into the facility)...just a thought...
...and bringing this back to the OP topic; I'm pretty certain that the dark-energy issue that was brought up by Tali and Kal'Reegar during her trial of treason as regards to her recruitment mission, is somehow very important. Even Gianna Parasini makes casual mension of the phenomena.
#308
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 07:57
Tripedius
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A big part of the story is illogical. However I think the collector bit is largely misunderstood. The collectors have been sampeling organics for the last 50.000 years. Since the reapers 'harvest' the best organics, not utterly destroys them, this makes some sense. The collectors are doing R&D so to speak. Making the human reaper isn't a plan to get to our milky way, but one of the goals all along. Probably they wanted the other council races first, but after being stopped by Shepard they switch focus to humanity and this explains their interest in Shepard, he's apparantly the best human out there.
So the collectors bit is happening at the same time as the reapers coming. The building of the human reaper, harvesting humanity, is the whole point of the reapers coming and the whole point of the 50.000 year cycle. It's apparantly what the reapers are there for (which opens up the whole who built the reapers and why).
So ME1 is the coming of the reapers. They thought it would be easy, hence Sovreign doing it alone. ME2 is why the reapers come, the motivation (albeit a bad one). ME3 is the reapers are here. So on the surface it makes sense, but don't over think it, cause you could shoot holes in it.
On Cerberus, I played ME2 first. I was expecting to see/hear the illusive man or even a reference but alas that was not the case. Big miss. On Cerberus being utterly evil, this still holds up as they just used Shepard as bait not as big hero who is the only one who can save us, that is just an extra. They actually don't expect Shepard to come back after the SM. In the end Shepard fits right in with all bad experiments Cerberus was doing.
In response to this guy: http://www.shamusyou...dedtale/?p=7004 who is mostly right, but some things are less stupid than they look (or at least that's my opinion). But Bioware didn't really think things through and missed some obvious things to make the plot close better, on the other hand, I enjoyed the game and it's not a grade A novel.
So the collectors bit is happening at the same time as the reapers coming. The building of the human reaper, harvesting humanity, is the whole point of the reapers coming and the whole point of the 50.000 year cycle. It's apparantly what the reapers are there for (which opens up the whole who built the reapers and why).
So ME1 is the coming of the reapers. They thought it would be easy, hence Sovreign doing it alone. ME2 is why the reapers come, the motivation (albeit a bad one). ME3 is the reapers are here. So on the surface it makes sense, but don't over think it, cause you could shoot holes in it.
On Cerberus, I played ME2 first. I was expecting to see/hear the illusive man or even a reference but alas that was not the case. Big miss. On Cerberus being utterly evil, this still holds up as they just used Shepard as bait not as big hero who is the only one who can save us, that is just an extra. They actually don't expect Shepard to come back after the SM. In the end Shepard fits right in with all bad experiments Cerberus was doing.
In response to this guy: http://www.shamusyou...dedtale/?p=7004 who is mostly right, but some things are less stupid than they look (or at least that's my opinion). But Bioware didn't really think things through and missed some obvious things to make the plot close better, on the other hand, I enjoyed the game and it's not a grade A novel.
#309
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 08:30
100k
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darthbuert wrote...
Now this ^ would have made for an excellant ME sequel. All of the missions (or at least most of them) would have remained plot-relevant, and it would have provided better opportunity to delve more into Shepard's internal crisis of psyche. Perhaps delving deeper into the moral issue of "Am I really still Shepard...or a copy?" . I like your ideas.
For the DLC stuf...one thing I would like to add; in the "Arrival" DLC they missed a pretty decent opportunity to retroactively add Kasumi as a playable character for those who may not have bought her DLC pack. Just think of it...Hackett wanted Shepard to go it alone on the mission. Why? Reasons related to stealth. Both Thane and Kasumi are taylor made to shine in such a mission. He/she could have brought them along to aid him with their expertise. If I were trying to secretly sneak into a prison they are the ones I would definitely take. A brief little intro could've been made to introduce Kasumi if she wasn't already a member (perhaps Hackett mentioning that she will meet Shepard there to let him/her into the facility)...just a thought...
...and bringing this back to the OP topic; I'm pretty certain that the dark-energy issue that was brought up by Tali and Kal'Reegar during her trial of treason as regards to her recruitment mission, is somehow very important. Even Gianna Parasini makes casual mension of the phenomena.
That's a great idea. It could work something like this:
(Assuming that Thane/Legion surived the SM mission)
Hackett will advise Shepard to keep a specialist as back up for after he rescues the scientist. He will tell Shepard that he's got a specialist in mind if Shepard wants her.
option a) I'll take Thane.
option
I'll take Legion.option c) I'll take the specialist (Kasumi).
If neither Thane nor Legion are alive, you'll automatically be assigned the specialist Kasumi as back up.
After Shepard is captured and breaks free, you'll meet Kasumi for the first time. She'll have shut off security so that the base doesn't know where you are. After a brief two person squad escape (cracking jokes, killing mercs, hacking doors, etc) she'll head off to the transmission tower to reactivate the thrusters (after Shepard puts in the two override keys), and signal the Normandy, while Shepard goes to stop Kenson and clear the landing pad.
This mission won't add Kasumi as a permenant squad mate though. If you don't buy the Kasumi DLC and Arrival is the first time you meet her, Harbinger hologram will electrify her, and she will be vacuumed away into space (her death will merely be part of the next game, similar to how she can die in the SM).
#310
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 08:34
armass
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I think those sidemission ideas would have been great, you should have fought collectors outside the main plot too, but all we got was some stupid mercs and pirates, again. Collectors should have been more developed, like every encounter would give you hints about who they were and why they were doing what they were doing, maybe get samples for Mordin to study and speculate etc. Also collectors should have had more ships than one, like even ten ships like that would make it more feasable to attack earth to harvest its poulation. Whoever came up with the idea, it's pretty stupid.
Also i think that Legions intro was handled poorly, again many apperances through the game would have been more intresting than the reaper encounter and aftermath. Would have added a mystery. Legion was supposed to be stalking you, but this was never shown. Show, dont tell.
One of the most obvious and pointless additions to ME2 i might point out at this point was the ships fuel system. Why exactly did they add it, what did it bring, since every cluster had a gassing station and you could still fly to all the stars in that cluster? Very stupid add.
There seems to be alot of bad things that can be said about decisions made with me2. Who knows why this is, EA rushing or Biowares own poor handling of the events.
Also i think that Legions intro was handled poorly, again many apperances through the game would have been more intresting than the reaper encounter and aftermath. Would have added a mystery. Legion was supposed to be stalking you, but this was never shown. Show, dont tell.
One of the most obvious and pointless additions to ME2 i might point out at this point was the ships fuel system. Why exactly did they add it, what did it bring, since every cluster had a gassing station and you could still fly to all the stars in that cluster? Very stupid add.
There seems to be alot of bad things that can be said about decisions made with me2. Who knows why this is, EA rushing or Biowares own poor handling of the events.
Modifié par armass, 02 mai 2011 - 08:41 .
#311
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 09:35
Xeranx
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@100k
I would have been immensely happy with what you illustrated there. In a place called "Perfect" ME2 would be redone and be thoroughly enjoyed by everyone.
I would have been immensely happy with what you illustrated there. In a place called "Perfect" ME2 would be redone and be thoroughly enjoyed by everyone.
#312
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 09:56
darthbuert
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Xeranx wrote...
@100k
I would have been immensely happy with what you illustrated there. In a place called "Perfect" ME2 would be redone and be thoroughly enjoyed by everyone.
Mortal Kombat and Bionic Commando got a redo...there's no reason why Mass Effect 2 cannot.
#313
Posté 02 mai 2011 - 10:08
darthbuert
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100k wrote...
darthbuert wrote...
Now this ^ would have made for an excellant ME sequel. All of the missions (or at least most of them) would have remained plot-relevant, and it would have provided better opportunity to delve more into Shepard's internal crisis of psyche. Perhaps delving deeper into the moral issue of "Am I really still Shepard...or a copy?" . I like your ideas.
For the DLC stuf...one thing I would like to add; in the "Arrival" DLC they missed a pretty decent opportunity to retroactively add Kasumi as a playable character for those who may not have bought her DLC pack. Just think of it...Hackett wanted Shepard to go it alone on the mission. Why? Reasons related to stealth. Both Thane and Kasumi are taylor made to shine in such a mission. He/she could have brought them along to aid him with their expertise. If I were trying to secretly sneak into a prison they are the ones I would definitely take. A brief little intro could've been made to introduce Kasumi if she wasn't already a member (perhaps Hackett mentioning that she will meet Shepard there to let him/her into the facility)...just a thought...
...and bringing this back to the OP topic; I'm pretty certain that the dark-energy issue that was brought up by Tali and Kal'Reegar during her trial of treason as regards to her recruitment mission, is somehow very important. Even Gianna Parasini makes casual mension of the phenomena.
That's a great idea. It could work something like this:
(Assuming that Thane/Legion surived the SM mission)
Hackett will advise Shepard to keep a specialist as back up for after he rescues the scientist. He will tell Shepard that he's got a specialist in mind if Shepard wants her.
option a) I'll take Thane.
option
option c) I'll take the specialist (Kasumi).
If neither Thane nor Legion are alive, you'll automatically be assigned the specialist Kasumi as back up.
After Shepard is captured and breaks free, you'll meet Kasumi for the first time. She'll have shut off security so that the base doesn't know where you are. After a brief two person squad escape (cracking jokes, killing mercs, hacking doors, etc) she'll head off to the transmission tower to reactivate the thrusters (after Shepard puts in the two override keys), and signal the Normandy, while Shepard goes to stop Kenson and clear the landing pad.
This mission won't add Kasumi as a permenant squad mate though. If you don't buy the Kasumi DLC and Arrival is the first time you meet her, Harbinger hologram will electrify her, and she will be vacuumed away into space (her death will merely be part of the next game, similar to how she can die in the SM).
Pretty cool ideas you have here...too bad they didn't have you on the story-writing staff when they were conceiving ideas for the direction of the game...
#314
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 01:20
Xeranx
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darthbuert wrote...
Xeranx wrote...
@100k
I would have been immensely happy with what you illustrated there. In a place called "Perfect" ME2 would be redone and be thoroughly enjoyed by everyone.
Mortal Kombat and Bionic Commando got a redo...there's no reason why Mass Effect 2 cannot.
The amount of work required will stop it from happening. Everything that happens in ME2 has to be referenced in ME3 which likely means that will need a redo as well because the story's already been written. There would have to be an enormous++ benefit to redoing ME2 and ME3 to even have them consider it.
The series is what it is now. If videogame licenses could be exchanged like movie rights there might be another one done, but not in our lifetime.
#315
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 02:13
100k
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Xeranx wrote...
darthbuert wrote...
Xeranx wrote...
@100k
I would have been immensely happy with what you illustrated there. In a place called "Perfect" ME2 would be redone and be thoroughly enjoyed by everyone.
Mortal Kombat and Bionic Commando got a redo...there's no reason why Mass Effect 2 cannot.
The amount of work required will stop it from happening. Everything that happens in ME2 has to be referenced in ME3 which likely means that will need a redo as well because the story's already been written. There would have to be an enormous++ benefit to redoing ME2 and ME3 to even have them consider it.
The series is what it is now. If videogame licenses could be exchanged like movie rights there might be another one done, but not in our lifetime.
Definately true.
Still, thanks for the kind words, guys. Heh, I like thinking about videogames as a medium of storytelling more and more. Hell, I wrote a absolutely perfect God of War trilogy after the third GOW came out. Absolutely perfect. Violent, sexy, bloody, throught provoking, and had a message. I'm still trying to decide whether I should upload it onto a forum for people to read, or try to send it to a movie studio. Maybe I'll just upload it, because I can't see myself sending it to Hollywood. Dunno where I would send it.
#316
Posté 03 mai 2011 - 03:16
UnAffectedFiddle
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The Lazarius project could still be a loaded gun. You could argue its place bridging the two stories makes it viable (after all, Shepherd technically dies in Act 1, then we move two years ahead to Act 2). After all, we have heard next to nothing to suggest its possible in the ME universe not to mention the whole question of why the hell Shepard has a functioning brain. It might be a major plot point in ME 3 as humanity is quickly adopting technology not just along the Reaper preset designs but with new twists.
Lets face it, Shepard is pretty much an organic machine. Miranda says they don't even know if it will be the same Shepard, its left up to the roleplaying of the player to either adopt the old shepherd persona or change it. It's no fault of the stories if people choose to not play as if Shepherd is changed (somewhat, it is still a game so has to take some liberties).
The biggest gun though is where did Reapers come from and why do they do what they do? We know it is impossible for even a hybrid of organic and machine to naturally evolve without technology. Their method of reproduction also suggests at some point they were either created or turned themselves into what they are. Shepherd is quickly reaching the state of ascendency. Look at all Sheps personal upgrades, on top of the ressurection.
I just really want to know what that liquid is...seems symbolic your being pumped full of goo which brings dead tissue to life (all that remains of you is a corpse) and at the ending we see the corpse of a Reaper being pumped with human goo to bring it to life. Your both "dead", your both created and your both supposed to be pinnacles of your current technologically forced evolutions. Shep is more human over machine, the Reaper is more machine over human but your both still a hybrid of the two now. Also the way Reapers are named, Sovereign, Harbinger...and is "Shepard" a purposeful link to a shepherd? Seems so if you look at the stories where your actions are guding your allies and essentially the entire human race (your beaten over the head early on how your representing humanity as a whole).
Organisation set to bring a dead god to life vs an organisation to bring back someone who killed a god. Maybe a sort of Greek mythology, the "new" gods throw down the old gods (Titans)?
Lets face it, Shepard is pretty much an organic machine. Miranda says they don't even know if it will be the same Shepard, its left up to the roleplaying of the player to either adopt the old shepherd persona or change it. It's no fault of the stories if people choose to not play as if Shepherd is changed (somewhat, it is still a game so has to take some liberties).
The biggest gun though is where did Reapers come from and why do they do what they do? We know it is impossible for even a hybrid of organic and machine to naturally evolve without technology. Their method of reproduction also suggests at some point they were either created or turned themselves into what they are. Shepherd is quickly reaching the state of ascendency. Look at all Sheps personal upgrades, on top of the ressurection.
I just really want to know what that liquid is...seems symbolic your being pumped full of goo which brings dead tissue to life (all that remains of you is a corpse) and at the ending we see the corpse of a Reaper being pumped with human goo to bring it to life. Your both "dead", your both created and your both supposed to be pinnacles of your current technologically forced evolutions. Shep is more human over machine, the Reaper is more machine over human but your both still a hybrid of the two now. Also the way Reapers are named, Sovereign, Harbinger...and is "Shepard" a purposeful link to a shepherd? Seems so if you look at the stories where your actions are guding your allies and essentially the entire human race (your beaten over the head early on how your representing humanity as a whole).
Organisation set to bring a dead god to life vs an organisation to bring back someone who killed a god. Maybe a sort of Greek mythology, the "new" gods throw down the old gods (Titans)?
