132 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

I am sick and tired of all these "NO OLD SQUADMATES ARE COMING BACK IN ME3 AND ANYONE WHO THINKS SO IS STUPID" threads.  I am also sick and tired of people getting up in arms about how THE WHOLE TEAM should come back and be recruitable.  Face it, guys: both sides are being incredibly unreasonable, to the point where you only exist to troll and flame each other.  NOT including any old squaddies would be a betrayal to the fans, while including ALL of them would be hell for the devs and leave little room for new characters.

So let's discuss--CIVILY--what our squad is going to look like in ME3.

THE OLD TEAM

Zaeed/Kasumi: Being DLC, these guys seem the least likely to return.  They are both loners and were hired for a single job.  While I wouldn't be surprised if the popped up somewhere, a la Shiala and Parasini, I doubt they'll be recruitable.  Shame, cuz I love Kasumi. UNLIKELY RETURN.

Thane and Mordin: Really popular characters, but Thane is dying and Mordin's old as dirt.  I wouldn't be surprised if they spontaneously keeled over.  A return would be welcome, though.  UNKNOWN.

Jack: Unstable.  While Shepard is the one person she can trust (assuming you gained her loyalty), she could just suddenly take off.  Not sure about her.  UNKNOWN.

Garrus and Tali: They've been with you since the beginning, and not including them would cause serious fan rage.  Unless you nuked them in the suicide mission, expect a triumphant return.  Although I can see Garrus running off on some crusade or Tali getting called back to the migrant fleet.  LIKELY RETURN.

Grunt: You're his battlemaster.  Unless clan Urdnot needs him, you're probably stuck with him.  LIKELY RETURN.

Legion: His mission is to study Shepard.  It's unclear whether or not his mission is complete.  Could very well stay, but as his nice seems to overlap with Garrus and Tali's, and they have a larger fan following, he might just get pushed aside.  UNKNOWN.

Jacob and Miranda: Cerberus might yank them back in, but they are quite loyal to you.  However, the leading human characters have a habit of being replaced.  UNKNOWN.

Samara/Morinth: As a Justicar, Samara has other duties.  Morinth will probably take off to go kill people.  UNLIKELY RETURN.

Wrex/Liara: They have other duties now.  Wrex is King of the Krogans and Liara is the new Shadow Broker.  They'll probably be important allies, though.  UNLIKELY RETURN.

Ashley/Kaidan: Bioware has hinted that the Virmire survivor will play an important role in ME3.  Whether this is as a squadmate or ally is unclear.  UNKNOWN.

THE NEW TEAM

So what if you got your whole squad except two characters nerfed in ME2?  What if you're a new player and haven't touched the previous two games?  There will certainly be new squadmates for you, two at the very least.  However, considering the huge cast already present, and the desire for quality over quantity, there probably won't be more than six, eight at a stretch.  But who will they be?

It is my hope that the new team will include a batarian and a female turian.  This seems to be a desire shared by a large part of the online community.  Also, there will probably be two new human members, male and female, as LIs for the new guys; this is a pattern that seems to have emerged, as Jacob and Miranda replaced Kaidan and Ashley.  Going on my previous assumption (six new squadmates), I expect there to be a new character for every class: sentinal, adept, vanguard, infiltrator, engineer and soldier.  Again, this is a pattern that seems to repeat itself.

It seems unlikely that old NPCs will be recruitable, though, since the most they did before was serve as quest givers.  I'm still pulling for a recruitable Kal'Reegar anyway.  It's Adam Baldwin with a rocket launcher, I mean come on, that's epic.

WHAT ABOUT THE DEFAULT SAVE?

The default save will probably assume certain characters died while others survived.  It may even assume that some were never recruited.  A completely new player, then, would miss out on one or two squadmates, plus a few allies and cameos, but it will be balanced enough that it's fair for them.  Exactly who the new player gets will probably be determined by the likelyhood of Character X dying in the suicide mission (for example, Miranda is a lot harder to kill than Mordin, and a lot of people went without and DLC at all).  We might also see a Virmire repeat, where Mirana survives if you're male and Jacob lives if you're female.  Or something.  My money's on Garrus and Tali as an auto-return.

A COUPLE THINGS I'D LIKE TO SEE

This is just personal opinion, but I'd really like to see a few places in ME3 where you have to choose between recruiting two characters.  That would add a lot of customizeability to your overall team balance, prevent you from having a squad that's too big and hard to manage, and make you think carefully about who you want with you.  Maybe if there was a cap on how many people you could have in your squad at a time...  Also, I really liked what they did with Liara in LotSB, and it'd be cool to see more temporary squadmates who only come with you or a mission or two.  Imagine working with a fellow Spectre, one that grants you a new loyalty power and doesn't end up dead later in the game.  Again, this would provide variety without causing squad overload.

Anyway, that's my take on it.  I apologize for the TL;DR.  Feel free to share your own opinions and hypotheses.  However, I don't want to hear any of that "no one's coming back" crap unless you can justify it reasonably with in-story evidence.  "They can all die in the suicide mission" is not an excuse, as the POINT of the suicide mission is to get everyone out alive.  Besides, there's another thread for that.

[Da_Lion_Man]

I would like to see Anderson as a squad member. I dunno why but I just do. Although he'll probably retire. Tali and Garrus should return. Maybe Jack... I don't think she has a place or people to go to, so I think she will stick around. The others can go for good reasons, but if they return then I'll welcome them.



About the new squad, think you will only get new squad members when certain people died? For example, if you got Garrus killed, he'll be replaced by a female Turian in Mass 3. If you got Tali killed, she will get replaced by one of those leutenants on the Migrant Fleet. If you got Thane killed, he will be replaced by his son and so on...



They could share some of the dialogue but ideally Bioware isn't lazy and would try to make the replacements unique characters.

[AdmiralCheez]

True, but just "replacing" characters is lame, since that forces the player to metagame, killing of Character X so they can recruit Character Y. As for Anderson, I really can't see him whipping out a gun. That part of his life is over.



Also, because each character seemed to be entirely self-contained, why would people just come forward and replace them? Garrus was a loner, and the Migrant Fleet has no reason to send you another quarian because you go the first one killed. The only one I can see working is Kolyat replacing his father, but he comes across as a bit of a n00b and I don't want him on my team.

[Count Viceroy]

The Li's return. That makes 6 + VS. Then a few extra new teammates to round it off at 10-12.

[StarcloudSWG]

As for Anderson: "I wish I could, but I'm too old to go running around the galaxy. The front lines, that's got to be your job."

Drew might have said about Anderson in Retibution: "The kind of character Anderson is, he wouldn't just abandon his responsibilities (as Councilor) to go gallivanting around the galaxy" But Drew forgot that an Admiral in the Alliance ALSO has a great deal of responsibility.

So it's extremely unlikely Anderson will appear as a squadmate in ME3.

[Talogrungi]

Personal opinions/guesswork only.

• All squadmates return, except for those who died in ME2.
• Non-imported ME3 playthroughs will have all companions alive.
• Virmire survivor will return as a squadmate at some point within the story.
• Liara will return as a squadmate at some point within the story.
• Wrex will not.

No new recruits, no loyalty missions .. ME3 will be all about the buildup to the final conflict.

I don't believe that Bioware would introduce an entire new "build a team, earn their trust" element into ME3 for reasons of pace and plot, and I think it's very significant that two surviving team-mates are necessary for a viable ME2-ME3 import.

I think you need two surviving squadmates so that, in ME3, you can still field a full 3 man team.

[LorDC]

I doubt that everyone will return. And no doubt that there will be new squadmates. No "team building of course" just short side missions like Wrex/Garrus one in ME1 or maybe even default loyal state(if that mechanic will ever be in ME3).

[kraidy1117]

LiamN7 wrote...

I don't think the whole need two squad mates alive to survive the SM necessarily has anything to do with ME3. It might only be there so you can do missions in ME2 after the SM. So it might mean nothing at all for ME3. Why does every assume that ME3 will start right at the end of ME2?

This. Plus ME3 will start sometime after the events of Retribution which takes place a bit after ME2.

[Wittand25]

Companions are one of the most work and resource intensive things Bioware does in their games (see posts of the DA2 team in the DA2 forum) so it is very unlikely that Bioware will make old teammates return as teammates because that involves a lot of work for content that requires the player to play another game to be able to access it.
My theory is that the ME3 team will leave for various reasons. Some will only send Shepard emails or video mails, others you will meet as NPCs later in game. The big pay off for your decisions regarding the squadmates will only happen during the epilogue, E.g. if you romanced Tali in ME2 and helped the Quarians to return to their homeworld in ME3 you get a picture of Shepard and Tali with text that says something like "After the end of the reaper thread Shepard was able to give his love the home she always dreamed of".

Edited for spelling.

Modifié par Wittand25, 19 novembre 2010 - 11:02 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

My guess is that they'll pretty much almost all be new, except perhaps the Virmire Survivor and maaaybe possibly Legion.

[Talogrungi]

Wittand25 wrote...

Companions are one of the most work and resource intensive things Bioware does in their games (see posts of the DA2 team in the DA2 forum) so it is very unlikely that Bioware will make old teammates return as teammates because that involves a lot of work for content that requires the player to play another game to be able to acces it.
My theory is that the ME3 team will leave for various reasons. Some will only send Shepard emails or video mails, others you will meet as NPCs later in game. The big pay off for your desicions regarding the squadmates will only happen during the epilouge, E.g. if you romanced Tali in ME2 and helped the Quarians to return to their homeworld in ME3 you get a picter of Shepard and Tali with texr that says something like "After the end of the reaper thread Shepard was able to give his love the home she always dreamed of".

Not true if the default choice is that all ME2 companions survive.

New playthroughs would experience the content.
ME2-ME3 imports with all surviving squadmates would experience the content.

The only people for whom the content would be wasted is those who import from ME2 with dead squadmates, which one might say is working as intended .. and let's be honest, they'll more than likely experience the content on a second playthrough with everyone alive.

Modifié par Talogrungi, 19 novembre 2010 - 10:44 .

[Wittand25]

Talogrungi wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Companions are one of the most work and resource intensive things Bioware does in their games (see posts of the DA2 team in the DA2 forum) so it is very unlikely that Bioware will make old teammates return as teammates because that involves a lot of work for content that requires the player to play another game to be able to access it.
My theory is that the ME3 team will leave for various reasons. Some will only send Shepard emails or video mails, others you will meet as NPCs later in game. The big pay off for your decisions regarding the squadmates will only happen during the epilogue, E.g. if you romanced Tali in ME2 and helped the Quarians to return to their homeworld in ME3 you get a picture of Shepard and Tali with text that says something like "After the end of the reaper thread Shepard was able to give his love the home she always dreamed of".

Not true if the default choice is that all ME2 companions survive.

New playthroughs would experience the content.
ME2-ME3 imports with all surviving squadmates would experience the content.

The only people for whom the content would be wasted is those who import from ME2 with dead squadmates, which one might say is working as intended .. and let's be honest, they'll more than likely experience the content on a second playthrough with everyone alive.

Yes because handing a player who is new to the franchise a thirteen people sized squad right at the beginning is a good design decision. ME3 is supposed to be completely enjoyable as stand alone title, so the default will have the minimum carry over just like the default ME2 start has the minimum carry over from ME1.  Permanently running into NPCs who know you but you don´t know them is extremely irritating more so if the NPCs are part of the squad so this will be something that Bioware will try to avoid. Not to mention that having everybody survives as standard outcome would turn the so called suicide mission at the end of ME2 into an even bigger joke than the baby reaper already does.

[Talogrungi]

Wittand25 wrote...
Yes because handing a player who is new to the franchise a thirteen people sized squad right at the beginning is a good design decision. ME3 is supposed to be completely enjoyable as stand alone title, so the default will have the minimum carry over just like the default ME2 start has the minimum carry over from ME1.  Permanently running into NPCs who know you but you don´t know them is extremely irritating more so if the NPCs are part of the squad so this will be something that Bioware will try to avoid. Not to mention that having everybody survives as standard outcome would turn the so called suicide mission at the end of ME2 into an even bigger joke than the baby reaper already does.

Every game has a degree of this, especially sequels.

Unless the protagonist is a complete outsider to the setting (obviously not the case in sequels), s/he's gonna have knowledge of the game world that the player doesn't. How well that knowledge (the relevant parts of it, at least) is transferred to the player is contingent on the quality of the writing. In a sequel where the player doesn't have experience of the prequel, this is obviously quite a big deal.

It's all about the writing.

[Da_Lion_Man]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

True, but just "replacing" characters is lame, since that forces the player to metagame, killing of Character X so they can recruit Character Y. As for Anderson, I really can't see him whipping out a gun. That part of his life is over.

Also, because each character seemed to be entirely self-contained, why would people just come forward and replace them? Garrus was a loner, and the Migrant Fleet has no reason to send you another quarian because you go the first one killed. The only one I can see working is Kolyat replacing his father, but he comes across as a bit of a n00b and I don't want him on my team.

True, you got a point. But not everyone needs a replacement, just a few of them. It's just meant for those who got a lot of squad members killed (deliberately or not) so they too will have a workable squad, while people who had most/all of them survive in Mass 2 can use the already existing squad members in Mass Effect 3.
 
That way, I think everybody would be happy... if done correctly of course.

About the characters, maybe you don't like them now, but maybe Bioware can change them in interesting characters. I didn't like Tali in ME1 so much but in ME2 I like her a lot better.

Modifié par Da_Lion_Man, 19 novembre 2010 - 11:31 .

[ninja0809]

*sigh*...as much as i liked The Lair of the Shadow Broker, the ending just makes it less likely for Liara to be your squadmate in ME3. Maybe she could let that drell (sry i couldn't remember his name) take over for awhile lol...



The OP is right, if Tali and Garrus doesn't come back then there would be serious fan rage!!!(from me no doubt)!

[netfire_]

I'm not going to do a big long thing here, but for a few of squad mates I will share my opinion of what seems logical.

Jack, Where the hell would jack go? the guts of the Normandy are the closest thing she has ever had to a home, and Shepard is the first person she ever trusted.

Talli will join the admiralty board, and be a npc ally, like Liara after lotsb, cause that is where she would be the most usefull to Shepard.

Anderson, or the Vs, or maybe both could function in the same role in the alliance navy.

There are other theorems for other characters but they seem less obvious, and I don't feel like typing any more. lol

[ninja0809]

netfire_ wrote...

I'm not going to do a big long thing here, but for a few of squad mates I will share my opinion of what seems logical.
Jack, Where the hell would jack go? the guts of the Normandy are the closest thing she has ever had to a home, and Shepard is the first person she ever trusted.
Talli will join the admiralty board, and be a npc ally, like Liara after lotsb, cause that is where she would be the most usefull to Shepard.
Anderson, or the Vs, or maybe both could function in the same role in the alliance navy.
There are other theorems for other characters but they seem less obvious, and I don't feel like typing any more. lol

Agrees on Jack...

but Tali leaving Shepard....NO! NO ! NO!

[AdmiralCheez]

Wittand25 wrote...

Companions are one of the most work and resource intensive things Bioware does in their games (see posts of the DA2 team in the DA2 forum) so it is very unlikely that Bioware will make old teammates return as teammates because that involves a lot of work for content that requires the player to play another game to be able to access it.
My theory is that the ME3 team will leave for various reasons. Some will only send Shepard emails or video mails, others you will meet as NPCs later in game. The big pay off for your decisions regarding the squadmates will only happen during the epilogue, E.g. if you romanced Tali in ME2 and helped the Quarians to return to their homeworld in ME3 you get a picture of Shepard and Tali with text that says something like "After the end of the reaper thread Shepard was able to give his love the home she always dreamed of".

Edited for spelling.

A picture and a paragraph in the epilogue is hardly a reward for 90 hours of gameplay.  I understand fully that a lot of resources go into making companions, which is why I believe only a few will be returning as full-fledged squadmates, but making no old squadmates recruitable would be like a betrayal to the fans as well as the personalities surrounding certain characters.  Think about it: one-third of your ME1 squad was back for ME2.  I suspect that roughly one-third of your ME2 squad will be back for ME3, provided you didn't kill them.  Four "old friends" isn't TOO overwhelming for new players, and they might even get less than that because a default save might assume that one or two of them were never recruited or died during the suicide mission.

I ask you this: what's more labor-intensive, reworking a handful of old characters with a few new ones, or scrapping all old characters and making an entirely new team?  

Also, I agree that getting the WHOLE TEAM back would be silly since it leaves no room for further development and new characters, and having the WHOLE TEAM as a default for new players would be overwhelming and completely defeat the purpose of the suicide mission.  

[AdmiralCheez]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

True, you got a point. But not everyone needs a replacement, just a few of them. It's just meant for those who got a lot of squad members killed (deliberately or not) so they too will have a workable squad, while people who had most/all of them survive in Mass 2 can use the already existing squad members in Mass Effect 3.
 
That way, I think everybody would be happy... if done correctly of course.

About the characters, maybe you don't like them now, but maybe Bioware can change them in interesting characters. I didn't like Tali in ME1 so much but in ME2 I like her a lot better.

Oh, sure, I don't have to like the people I recruit, certainly.  Kolyat just reminds me of my little brother and therefore is annoying as hell.  Personal preference.  Not saying he shouldn't be recruitable at all, and I'm not saying Bioware couldn't do something with his character.

I understand what you mean by the necessity of a workable squad.  However, I would be hesitant to call any newcomers "replacements," nor do I like the idea of any characters being recruitable only if you got their counterpart killed in ME2.  I believe I explained why in my previous response (encourages metagaming).

[Phaedon]

ME2's point was to build a strong team. In ME3 everyone from the old team (except perhaps for Zaeed and Kasumi) should return.

[AdmiralCheez]

netfire_ wrote...

Talli will join the admiralty board, and be a npc ally, like Liara after lotsb, cause that is where she would be the most usefull to Shepard.

But what if you got her exiled?  Would she stay then? (Reward renegade players with a squadmate?  By God!  That's the first time renegades will get thrown a bone since... ever!)

[AdmiralCheez]

Phaedon wrote...

ME2's point was to build a strong team. In ME3 everyone from the old team (except perhaps for Zaeed and Kasumi) should return.

PRECISELY why at least a few of them should return.  But isn't starting the game with ten squadmates a little ridiculous, especially if you've just picked up ME3 without playing the first two?  Weren't a few of them recruited exclusively for one mission, anyway?  And what about new characters?  Don't you want any more surprises, like Legion?

Not trying to change your mind, but I want people to think before just saying "oh everyone should come back" or "nobody's coming back at all."

[Netin]

There are so many ways Bioware can go with this that guessing just feels like a waste of time to be honest. We don't even know how much time has passed and what the team have been doing since the events of Mass Effect 2, and there are lots of reasons that would justify whatever happens to the squad.

My guess is that we'll be introduces to maybe 2-4 new squad members (of which I hope the VS and Liara are amongst) that will be helpful to the plot, give us a bit variety and the feeling that things are progressing, in addition to give players who only have the minimal amount of squadmates left after the suicide mission a crew they can work with, and give players who are new to the series a few characters they can get to know for themselves instead of being surrounded by characters that you're already supposed to "know" (I hope Bioware will make the game assuming that most people have already played through the previous games though).

As for the old squad, I doubt they'll keep all of them on the team, 12 is already quite a lot squadmembers, and the gameplay difference would be huge between those who lost nearly their whole team and those who kept all of them alive, not to mention all the extra work it would require. The most logical would be for the LI's to stay as it would be more convenient for the continuation of the romances, they also seem to have skillsets that complement each others quite well.

Obviously Garrus and Tali have a lot of fans and have been there since the beginning.
Miranda and Jacob seem loyal to you in the end of ME2, and I doubt they'd be able to go back to Cerberus if they told off the Illusive man in the end of the suicide mission.
Jack and Thane doesn't really have anywhere to go in the addition to their potential LI status, Thane doesn't have much time left though so it'll be interesting to see what Bioware has planned for his character and romance.

The squadmates who leave would then be Zaeed and Kasumi who are both dlc characters and basically just hired for that one mission.
Samara, whos oath to you would be concluded, and got her own justicar duties to attend to.
Legion, who is.. I don't know, maybe using the information he's gathered to help organize the geth for the inevitable reaper war or something. The council and Alliance might not just ignore that you're dragging around a geth through Citadel space either if you're going back to work for them.
Grunt, who might be helping Wrex and Urdnot with uniting the Krogan, the shaman seemed awfully anxious to have him back in one piece.
Mordin, who.. well is kind of old for an Salarian, besides, he's a scientist and might do more good in a proper lab facility.

Hopefully all of them will get proper cameos though, it would feel quite stupid if the people you spent 80% of the previous game recruiting and making loyal just disappears, and Bioware obviously spent some time creating them.
This way the work we went through recruiting the whole team in ME2 wont be a total waste, and Bioware can still put in a couple of new squadmates.

tldr: All 6 possible LI's stays, while the rest get cameos.

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I would like to see Anderson as a squad member. I dunno why but I just do. Although he'll probably retire. Tali and Garrus should return. Maybe Jack... I don't think she has a place or people to go to, so I think she will stick around.

As much as I love Anderson, I don't think he would fit in as a squadmember. In addition to his age, he's a councilor/important Alliance admiral (before Retribution anyway) and Shepards former captain/superior officer, it would feel awkward running around giving him orders, it would just ruin some of his character. I'd much rather have him and Kahlee Sanders as important NPC's that gives you vital information throughout the game.

Modifié par Netin, 20 novembre 2010 - 02:14 .

[smithgroup]

As long as Shepard doesn't die or something like that in the beginning so there can be another "reboot" with all new squadmates and I have Tali, I will be happy.