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ME3: Who returns? Who's new?


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#26
AdmiralCheez

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Netin wrote...

Hopefully all of them will get proper cameo's though, it would feel quite stupid if the people you spent 80% of the previous game recruiting and making loyal just disappears, and Bioware obviously spent some time creating them.
This way the work we went through recruiting the whole team in ME2 wont be a total waste, and Bioware can still put in a couple of new squadmates.


Agreed, although I'm iffy about just the LI's returning.  After all, the VS was an LI and didn't return, and you only got Liara for one DLC mission.  Buuut they have confirmed roles in ME3, so I'll shut my mouth.

As for wasting time, that's what forums are for! 8D

smithgroup wrote...

As long as Shepard doesn't die or something like that in the beginning
so there can be another "reboot" with all new squadmates and I have
Tali, I will be happy.


Yes, please, no more contrived reboots.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 20 novembre 2010 - 02:16 .


#27
Zan51

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First off, Kolyat is not going to replace Thane because
1) His father wanted another life for him. Great way to repay Thane's help, doing to his son what he didn't want!
2) He's an inept kid with no kind of training at all! Thane trained from the age of 6, I think he tells you. Not something you can do a quick-study on in a year or two!
3) It's been discussed to death elsewhere on this forum that the kid is no way any kind of replacemwnt for his father. He's useless. Sure, by luck he got a gun on some dirty politician, but you distracted him easily when the chips were down and disarmed him. Not the caliber of player you need for your team, is it, untrained amateurs?

Tali on the admiralty board? How on earth is that justified? What has she done to earn that? What she has done with Shepard is looked at askance for starters. Again been discussd a lot but I haven't read one good reason for her to get promoted to such an exalted position at her young age.
She's a grunt, a researcher, not a leader of people and tactician like the other Admirals we meet. (I don't remember if her late father was an Admiral, but as he was a researcher, I would doubt it) Not dissing Tali here, she has skills Shepard needs, never mind her fleet, and I like her.

Next, I don't for a second believe we'll get 13 folk handed on a plate at the beginning of the game. As far as I know, we are STILL stranded on the wrong side of the Relay after the Suicide Mission. I remember nothing about coming back through a relay!

That aside, we'll probably be in a situation where we need an ID change, thus giving us access to Character creation. Easiest way to do this is the way it was done in ME1 - your data has been lost so recreate it. However it is unlikely BW will use that. Likely they have some starter-shocker to begin the game.

Whatever, we will have 2 team matesat the start, and may have to go round up our people again if there has been a reasonable time gap between the end of ME2 and 3. A couple may have stayed with us on the Normandy rather than go back to their old lives to tidy up stuff - Garrus and his mother for instance comes to mind.

Missing is likely to be the DLC people as they are not part of the original game - meaning Kasumi (and I like her a lot and would like her to stay) and Zaeed. Also missing is likely to be Thane, who has died, unless they find a magical cure for him, and Samara as she has finished the job she agreed to do for you. Also possibly Mordin is dead as he was old for his species already in ME2. That leaves only Jack, Grunt, Jacob, Miranda, Garrus, Tali, Legion.

The other way to inject a large number of our team back into the game for noobs, is like it was done in ME1. They are on the ship, and we get them assigned to us and we talk to them as we do a job and thus get to know them. I think it will likely be a mix of both, some of the team still there, others we need to go pick up after they went to sort something out at home, like Garrus and his dying mother, as I said.

Modifié par Zan51, 20 novembre 2010 - 02:40 .


#28
AdmiralCheez

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@Zan51: Actually, Tali's father WAS an admiral. But I do agree that she's a bit too young to lead the fleet.

#29
Netin

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Netin wrote...

Hopefully all of them will get proper cameo's though, it would feel quite stupid if the people you spent 80% of the previous game recruiting and making loyal just disappears, and Bioware obviously spent some time creating them.
This way the work we went through recruiting the whole team in ME2 wont be a total waste, and Bioware can still put in a couple of new squadmates.


Agreed, although I'm iffy about just the LI's returning.  After all, the VS was an LI and didn't return, and you only got Liara for one DLC mission.  Buuut they have confirmed roles in ME3, so I'll shut my mouth.

As for wasting time, that's what forums are for! 8D

True, but it is the last game in the trilogy and the VS will most likely return so that atleast the romance can be concluded (and hopefully Liara as well). But I guess it may be possible for e.g Tali to return to the Flotilla as your LI as long as it is handled better than than they did Liara and the VS in ME2 (excluding LotSB). I don't think it's likely they will give us more than 6 to max 8 of the old crew though, unless they intend to just stick with whoever survived the suicide mission, which I doubt is realistic.

#30
AdmiralCheez

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Netin wrote...

True, but it is the last game in the trilogy and the VS will most likely return so that atleast the romance can be concluded (and hopefully Liara as well). But I guess it may be possible for e.g Tali to return to the Flotilla as your LI as long as it is handled better than than they did Liara and the VS in ME2 (excluding LotSB). I don't think it's likely they will give us more than 6 to max 8 of the old crew though, unless they intend to just stick with whoever survived the suicide mission, which I doubt is realistic.


Romatic conclusion doesn't necessarily mean making them a squadmate.  And yes, having more than half of the old squad back seems unrealistic.   A squad of twelve seemed too big as it is.

#31
Aurica

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

I am sick and tired of all these "NO OLD SQUADMATES ARE COMING BACK IN ME3 AND ANYONE WHO THINKS SO IS STUPID" threads. 


Even if Bioware is willing to do it properly and make our actions in ME2 count towards ME3... There is a chance EA might not let Bioware do so.   Why would you devote resources into designing/coding something that is variable which can only be experience by some Shepards in certain play-throughs?

#32
Netin

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Romatic conclusion doesn't necessarily mean making them a squadmate.  And yes, having more than half of the old squad back seems unrealistic.   A squad of twelve seemed too big as it is.

I know, I guess I'm just expecting the VS to return as a squadmember as he/she was totally neglected in ME2, and it has been stated that they are supposed to have a bigger role in ME3, well, time will tell :P I kinda expect Liara to stay at the Shadow broker base as she already got a pretty big role there though.

#33
Count Viceroy

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Aurica wrote...

Even if Bioware is willing to do it properly and make our actions in ME2 count towards ME3... There is a chance EA might not let Bioware do so.   Why would you devote resources into designing/coding something that is variable which can only be experience by some Shepards in certain play-throughs?


There's also a chance that they will because putting in the effort will make the product sell better.

See I can stab in the dark too.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 novembre 2010 - 03:15 .


#34
Deltamon

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I honestly don't care for anyone else, aslong as Tali and Liara will be majorly around.. D:



Rest of them are replaceable, and thank god that I got my dear Liara back in the DLC.. Totally made my day just now.. <3



However, I do hope for Ashley to have a bigger return in ME3 aswell tho.. Anyways, what I really hope is.. That the decisions you made in ME1 will have consequenses in ME3, especially regarding the crew and storyline.. Not just as a interactive side characters like Liara originally was in ME2...

#35
BrokenPolygon

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Count Viceroy wrote...

Aurica wrote...

Even if Bioware is willing to do it properly and make our actions in ME2 count towards ME3... There is a chance EA might not let Bioware do so.   Why would you devote resources into designing/coding something that is variable which can only be experience by some Shepards in certain play-throughs?


There's also a chance that they will because putting in the effort will make the product sell better.

See I can stab in the dark too.



Not to mention that having your choices have a MASSive EFFECT on how the story plays out is the underlying premise of the entire series.

#36
AdmiralCheez

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Count Viceroy wrote...

Aurica wrote...

Even if Bioware is willing to do it properly and make our actions in ME2 count towards ME3... There is a chance EA might not let Bioware do so.   Why would you devote resources into designing/coding something that is variable which can only be experience by some Shepards in certain play-throughs?


There's also a chance that they will because putting in the effort will make the product sell better.

See I can stab in the dark too.


What Aurica said.  Also, remember not everybody paid Zaeed and Kasumi, so they missed out on two whole squadmates.  Plus most of the returning squadmates could be available in the default setting, and most poeple who own ME2 have at least one save where everyone survived.

#37
EffectedByTheMasses

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I think out for a default game, Miranda will survive if Shepard is male, Jacob will survive if Shepard is female. VS, Grunt, Legion, Garrus, Tali, will probably be squadmates. The others will be either dead, in Thane/Mordin's case on a default game, or NPC's. I'd like to see Anderson be a squadmate, as well as TiM although that's probably stretching it. Liara will most likely be the Shadow Broker and not a squadmate, although a key character, like Joker, in ME3. In replacement, there would probably be an Asari squadmate, maybe a spectre? My hopes are also up for Captain Bailey to be a squadmate. I'd also like to see more of the Raloi (the new avian Council species is the one I mean).



And of course, Urz, Space hamster, Thresher Maw, and a Shifty-looking Cow.

#38
MrDizazta

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I want Kal Reegar for squadmate. Imagine the epicness that is Adam Baldwin.

#39
kraidy1117

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MrDizaztar wrote...

I want Kal Reegar for squadmate. Imagine the epicness that is Adam Baldwin.

He can die.

#40
MrDizazta

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kraidy1117 wrote...

MrDizaztar wrote...

I want Kal Reegar for squadmate. Imagine the epicness that is Adam Baldwin.

He can die.

I know he can die, but he has never died on me because "I NEVER ALLOW IT."

Also looking at another BioWare game and its expansion, DAO and DAO:A, Oghren can die in Origins and thus not have an appearance in Awakening, but that doesn't mean he isn't recruitable.

I will invoke the "OGHREN RULE": Just because a character can die in a game, doesn't mean they wont make an appearance in a future game, assuming you don't kill them.

#41
kraidy1117

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MrDizaztar wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

MrDizaztar wrote...

I want Kal Reegar for squadmate. Imagine the epicness that is Adam Baldwin.

He can die.

I know he can die, but he has never died on me because "I NEVER ALLOW IT."

Also looking at another BioWare game and its expansion, DAO and DAO:A, Oghren can die in Origins and thus not have an appearance in Awakening, but that doesn't mean he isn't recruitable.

I will invoke the "OGHREN RULE": Just because a character can die in a game, doesn't mean they wont make an appearance in a future game, assuming you don't kill them.

Wrong. Oghren can not die in the game, in order for him to die you have to use mods, he is unkillable, he can however die in DAO:A

Just because a character is cool thus not mean they will be a squadmate, more so becase they can die. Everyone in Origins could die except Oghren and he was in DAO:A.

#42
Aurica

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BrokenPolygon wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Aurica wrote...

Even if Bioware is willing to do it properly and make our actions in ME2 count towards ME3... There is a chance EA might not let Bioware do so.   Why would you devote resources into designing/coding something that is variable which can only be experience by some Shepards in certain play-throughs?


There's also a chance that they will because putting in the effort will make the product sell better.

See I can stab in the dark too.



Not to mention that having your choices have a MASSive EFFECT on how the story plays out is the underlying premise of the entire series.


I can see it working if it adds to the replayability of the game.  Especially for players who have multiple shepards.
Aside from that?  I'm not sure...  

Its still up to BW or EA to justify whether doing so is worth it or not.   I personally would like my choices to count, but I'm not keeping my hopes up because I don't want to end up being disappointed if they dont.

#43
Stazro

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Aurica wrote...

Why would you devote resources into designing/coding something that is variable which can only be experience by some Shepards in certain play-throughs?


Already happened. There are a number of things in ME2 which someone who hasn't played ME1 never will experience. Why wouldn't they do it again and, since it is the grande finale of the series with 1000 decisions carried over from the previous games perhaps on a larger scale?

#44
ArcanistLibram

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Besides outright laziness or inept planning, there's no excuse not to bring the majority of the squad back. I think Samara's the only one that has better things to do than to hang out with Shepard.

#45
Destroy Raiden_

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I'd say the members most likely to come back are:

Tali

Garrus

Miranda

Jacob

Grunt

Ash/Kaiden



Those that could be NPCs



Mordin - old age he could either be off ship or on as strictly non combatant researcher



Samara - Dialogue suggest she'll be an npc w/ major role



Kasumi - while I'd like her ingame her box and lifestyle seems to make her npc applicable



Thane - dying or getting too bad to fight



Zeed - off chasing Vido or running mercs cameo help npc



Legion - he was built to make contact w/ shep and outside world he did now he could be back putting all that data exchange to some use.



Continued npcs



Liara - sorry I like her but I just don't see her handing the SB base to Feron and going w/ you she's got an extremely important role in my opinion and needs to stay there she unlike Feron can be simi trusted.



Kal - npc cool to have him on board but then would Tali stay too? He seems pro fleet and not the type to leave them



Veetor - Sorry his breakdown shows not a potential recruit for fleet marines much less to be on sheps ship



Anderson - Busy and even if he retires as some say he might he is still too old to play this type or role anymore he would be an advisor to shep



Udina?- need I say more?



TIM - Not the play well with others type He's happier calling the shots then getting them






#46
deimosmasque

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Alright based on ME2's base game as well as the events of it I think it's more like this.



Jacob - dies in the base save (he claims he can do the techs mission) if he lives he's rejoined the Alliance after seeing the worst face of Cerberus

Miranda - Shepard's XO she's not going anywhere

Jack - No matter how her loyalty mission goes she needs to find her place in the galaxy, default you don't do the loyalty missions and she runs off at the end of the mission to take care of her stuff.

Thane - I'm pretty sure Thane will die off camera from his disease. Leaving #1 open for a new character.

Garrus - He only left the first time because Shepard was dead, This time he stays with you. He like Miranda is a starting squad mate.

Tali - Default will be that she's exiled meaning she's with Shepard as "vas Normandy." Even if you do her loyality and she survives she's still going to stay with Shepard, she's never felt more at home than at the Normandy.

Legion - While his mission is on one hand to follow Shepard, I assume he will leave and become a recruit.

Mordin - Living out his years researching the genophage (no matter if you completed his mission or not.) If he survives it might be a sub-quest but that's all.

Samara/Mordinth - I don't expect her to appear as anything more than a reference on a newscast. They both have their own agendas to play out.

Grunt - Shepard, as others have pointed out, is his Battlemaster. He stays. Perhaps a bit less rash as he's been seasoned by combat and suicide missions, but he's there.

Zaeed/Kasumi - As much as I wish them both to come back they were both guns for hire and won't return. Maybe some stories and even a quest for both or maybe some DLC, but they are gone.



Liara - A quest or two but really she has her own business now. She'll be important and her quests with have resonance to the main plot but not squad membership.

Wrex - Like with Liara he has his own problems, and he wants to go but he cannot. His quests will probably tie into the final parts but he will not be a squadmate. Also remember the default of ME2 is that he's dead.

Ashley/Kaiden - Likely to return. I don't even know why I'm saying it but I just have this gut feeling that the will play a more important role in ME3, probably as a squad mate.



Meaning that unless ME3 breaks the rules of the previous games I feel that Miranda, Tali, Garrus and Grunt are your starting squad mates. For the first mission or so you can see a storyline where Miranda stays on board as the XO, but that still leaves some squad choices for missions.



Also leaves an open door for at least 3 new squad mates minimum, And that is only assuming that Bioware is doing no updates to the amount of squad mates or the amount taken on a mission.


#47
BellatrixLugosi

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Whats the Rules of the previous games and RPG games in general though when it comes to squadmates? Because its mostly the case that new people always appear in games. I personally don't see a problem with new squad mates but I can see why some people would dissappointed. But whats wrong with lengthy cameo's though if worst comes to worst?

#48
AdmiralCheez

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@deimosmasque: Wow, your reply was really well thought out. You came up with a lot of things I overlooked. I think having the four squadmates you mentioned as starters makes a lot of sense. Maybe of those four, one or two of them would be assumed to be dead in the default, so that new players still get two to start out with for sure, but us veterans get a little reward for finishing both games. Maybe a dead Grunt, no Miranda if you're female and no Garrus if you're male. Although having squadmates not present in the default would mean a possibly reduced role for them... Hm. What if you got all four of them killed in ME2? I wonder who'd replace them...

@Bellatrix: Nothing's wrong with lengthy cameos at all.  For example, Wrex's new role was fantastic, and I love what they did with Liara in LotSB.  I certainly agree that there should be--and probably WILL be--new characters joining our merry band, but remember how Tali and Garrus both played fairly large roles as squadmates in ME2.  Of course, this time around there's the possibility of them getting killed, which has everyone up in arms... 

If handled correctly, I certainly wouldn't mind if even Garrus wasn't recruitable (the man is a bro), but if all we get are one twenty-second conversation and an email, expect serious fan-rage on my part.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:41 .


#49
GodWood

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deimosmasque wrote...
Thane - I'm pretty sure Thane will die off camera from his disease. Leaving #1 open for a new character.

It suprises me so many people think this.
Bioware would not create a character specifically designed to be loved by female gamers and give him a dramatic romance plot only to have him die offscreen.

#50
AdmiralCheez

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@GodWood: Offscreen seems lame to me as well, but miraculously curing him is even worse. Give him a good, dramatic death, one that takes place during the course of the game and not during the x-amount-of-time gap between ME2 and 3. Or have him stick it out to the end, just barely, and let his future be determined by fanfics. I don't like the guy, but just kicking him out of the story would be a massive cop-out.