132 réponses à ce sujet

[deimosmasque]

@AdmiralCheez thanks, I really appreciate that most people go "I didn't think of that so I will tear it apart incorrectly."



But there is a design feature in ME2, most of us have to TRY to kill someone. The only one who consistently gets killed is Mordin. Remember some of us never recruited Wrex, Tali or Garrus and yet all of them react as if we did,.



I am assuming and I have to admit it's a bit ASS-U-ME that they realize that most everyone got the "No Man Left Behind" achievement. It takes more effort to lose everyone than to save everyone.



But I agree with you at the same time. No MIranda if your female, Garrus is your XO. No Garrus if your male, Miranda is your XO it's a good default.

[GodWood]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
@GodWood: Offscreen seems lame to me as well, but miraculously curing him is even worse. Give him a good, dramatic death, one that takes place during the course of the game and not during the x-amount-of-time gap between ME2 and 3. Or have him stick it out to the end, just barely, and let his future be determined by fanfics. I don't like the guy, but just kicking him out of the story would be a massive cop-out.

Thats what I'm hoping for.

[Aurica]

Stazro wrote...

Aurica wrote...

Why would you devote resources into designing/coding something that is variable which can only be experience by some Shepards in certain play-throughs?

Already happened. There are a number of things in ME2 which someone who hasn't played ME1 never will experience. Why wouldn't they do it again and, since it is the grande finale of the series with 1000 decisions carried over from the previous games perhaps on a larger scale?

Whatever we have done in ME1, we had experience them as a cameo in ME2 or via the extranet news. 

But having one return as a squadmate is a whole lot different. 
They will have to devote at least a good portion of resource into the VA alone and amongst others like working to have that NPC in the scene and script writing etc etc..

[kraidy1117]

Stazro wrote...

Aurica wrote...

Why would you devote resources into designing/coding something that is variable which can only be experience by some Shepards in certain play-throughs?

Already happened. There are a number of things in ME2 which someone who hasn't played ME1 never will experience. Why wouldn't they do it again and, since it is the grande finale of the series with 1000 decisions carried over from the previous games perhaps on a larger scale?

There is a diffrence between giving a character a email/cameo and making a character a squadmate. A lot of time and resources are put into it, why do you think Wrex was a cameo in ME2? It was because he could die.

[pinskyyang]

- really hope returning characters are in Mass Effect 3. Jack "Subject Zero", Garrus ftw bioware; great character development.

[Stazro]

kraidy1117 wrote...

There is a diffrence between giving a character a email/cameo and making a character a squadmate. A lot of time and resources are put into it, why do you think Wrex was a cameo in ME2? It was because he could die.

Aurica wrote...

Whatever we have done in ME1, we had experience them as a cameo in ME2 or via the extranet news. 

But having one return as a squadmate is a whole lot different. 
They
will have to devote at least a good portion of resource into the VA
alone and amongst others like working to have that NPC in the scene and
script writing etc etc..

Of course it's a difference between a full companion character and some mini-quest, but it's also a difference that ME3 is the conclusion of the series, where everything Shepard has done thus far is supposed to come together.

Aurica, you said it is a variable that can only be experienced by some Shepards in certain playthroughs. You are looking at it the wrong way: it is a variable that can not be experienced by only some Shepards in certain playthroughs. I believe a number of maybe three or four ME2 squadmates will return. In default Shepard's suicide mission all of those three or four "returnees" have survived and thus all ME3 newbies will experience the full content. The same goes for every Shepard who has them as survivors too. The only players who won't are those who've let them die. And let's face it: After perhaps some trial and error everyone get's his crew through, with the exception of those who let squadmates die on purpose (and in that case it really is their own fault if they don't get all the content).
So, the number of Shepards, who won't experience a returning squadmate is marginal.

I don't expect to meet a whole football team of squadmates upon starting up the game. There will be some distance between the timeframes of the games, so it's not unreasonable if most of the team, for the time being, attend to some of their own matters, so you will need to set out again to pick up those who are willing to continue the "good fight" along Shepard. It won't be all of them, expecially not the DLC ones, but I'm sure there will be some.

Modifié par Stazro, 20 novembre 2010 - 10:31 .

[Hyper Cutter]

Even the default save will have at least two people survive, because that's the lowest threshhold required for Shepard to survive ME2.

AdmiralCheez wrote...
But what if you got her exiled?  Would she stay then? (Reward renegade players with a squadmate?  By God!  That's the first time renegades will get thrown a bone since... ever!)

Getting Tali exiled is the Paragon choice (the non-persuasion one), btw.

[CroGamer002]

How should ME3 start?

If ZULU can do it, why I shouldn't do it too?

[AdmiralCheez]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

Even the default save will have at least two people survive, because that's the lowest threshhold required for Shepard to survive ME2.

AdmiralCheez wrote...
But what if you got her exiled?  Would she stay then? (Reward renegade players with a squadmate?  By God!  That's the first time renegades will get thrown a bone since... ever!)

Getting Tali exiled is the Paragon choice (the non-persuasion one), btw.

Really?  I thought intimidation got her exiled, too.  I dunno, I always go with charm or "rally the crowd."  Mostly rally the crowd, because we need moar Adam Baldwin.

[AdmiralCheez]

Mesina2 wrote...

How should ME3 start?

If ZULU can do it, why I shouldn't do it too?

Let's not necro our own threads, shall we?

[Lowenhart]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I would like to see Anderson as a squad member. I dunno why but I just do. Although he'll probably retire.

I doubt Anderson gonna be a sqaurd member, i find it more likely he will head the alliance fleet on the showdown along with Admiral Hackett, and likely arrive at last moment to help shepard fight impossible odds against reaper fleet, others races may join aswell for a breath unity to fight the reapers some may be legions geth aswell the qaurian fleet.

I am guessing most people who died on suicide mission will most likely be dead at beginning of ME3 canon wise as its alot easier way to clean tables, than have new players who dident play mass effect 1 or 2 deal with people they dont, and what their relationship is with them, the surviving would likely either die early on to raise drama levels and other take cameo roles.

Modifié par Lowenhart, 20 novembre 2010 - 11:49 .

[Sursion]

Legion is absolutely going to stay. His goal is to stop the reapers. They're still coming. Where would he be going?

[AdmiralCheez]

Lowenhart wrote...

I doubt Anderson gonna be a sqaurd member, i find it more likely he will head the alliance fleet on the showdown along with Admiral Hackett, and likely arrive at last moment to help shepard fight impossible odds against reaper fleet, others races may join aswell for a breath unity to fight the reapers some may be legions geth aswell the qaurian fleet.

I am guessing most people who died on suicide mission will most likely be dead at beginning of ME3 canon wise as its alot easier way to clean tables, than have new players who dident play mass effect 1 or 2 deal with people they dont, and what their relationship is with them, the surviving would likely either die early on to raise drama levels and other take cameo roles.

Okay, but who's dead and who gets cameo'd?  And what do you expect for possible new squadmates?  Like, do you want a hanar with a rocket launcher or what?

I disagree with the "clearing the table" thing, though.  New players had to adjust to Liara, Garrus, Tali, and Kaidan/Ashley.  Based on the people I've talked to who only played ME2, they weren't too confused by it.  Therefore, expecting a couple triumphant returns seems logical.

Epic space battle.  Yes.  Make it happen.

@Sursion: He might go back to the geth to share the information he's gathered, but he could just as easily make a return after that.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 21 novembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[Lowenhart]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lowenhart wrote...

I doubt Anderson gonna be a sqaurd member, i find it more likely he will head the alliance fleet on the showdown along with Admiral Hackett, and likely arrive at last moment to help shepard fight impossible odds against reaper fleet, others races may join aswell for a breath unity to fight the reapers some may be legions geth aswell the qaurian fleet.

I am guessing most people who died on suicide mission will most likely be dead at beginning of ME3 canon wise as its alot easier way to clean tables, than have new players who dident play mass effect 1 or 2 deal with people they dont, and what their relationship is with them, the surviving would likely either die early on to raise drama levels and other take cameo roles.

Okay, but who's dead and who gets cameo'd?  And what do you expect for possible new squadmates?  Like, do you want a hanar with a rocket launcher or what?

I disagree with the "clearing the table" thing, though.  New players had to adjust to Liara, Garrus, Tali, and Kaidan/Ashley.  Based on the people I've talked to who only played ME2, they weren't too confused by it.  Therefore, expecting a couple triumphant returns seems logical.

Epic space battle.  Yes.  Make it happen.

@Sursion: He might go back to the geth to share the information he's gathered, but he could just as easily make a return after that.

Guessing as some said before Aria might be a possibility as she been developed quite a bit on, and Kal'reegar if i spelled it right might be one aswell given canon wise its likely as much as i hate the thought gonna show tali being on suicide casualties. Could be that the drell you saved in shadow brokers lair might be another potential future group member, if Bioware does what i hope Zaaed may be back but also be new head of blue suns again in addition. They may decide to give Katsumi a actual role and polish her more and give more depths and story to her. The its possible we will see new faces all together aswell we havent seen before.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lowenhart wrote...

Guessing as some said before Aria might be a possibility as she been developed quite a bit on, and Kal'reegar if i spelled it right might be one aswell given canon wise its likely as much as i hate the thought gonna show tali being on suicide casualties. Could be that the drell you saved in shadow brokers lair might be another potential future group member, if Bioware does what i hope Zaaed may be back but also be new head of blue suns again in addition. They may decide to give Katsumi a actual role and polish her more and give more depths and story to her. The its possible we will see new faces all together aswell we havent seen before.

Aria seems to be too selfish and preoccupied with running Omega to join our merry band.  She doesn't do any shooting herself anymore; she has her goons for that.  Kal'Reegar is a possibility, but he's one paragon interrupt away from death, so I don't know.  Feron the drell?  His appearance was so brief that it's hard to judge.  New faces go without saying.  As for Kasumi and Zaeed, I'd love to see them fleshed out more, but being DLC and all, expect a few news reports and an email.  Maybe a cameo or sidequest if we're lucky.  If Zaeed's running the Blue Suns, he'd probably be too busy to rejoin your team, anyway.

Major suckage because Kasumi was my favorite squadmate, but alas...

[Lowenhart]

Aria has a grudge with Cereberus that she doesnt know about yet(they killed her daughter but she isnt aware of it yet), and seeing as in ME3 shepard is likely gonna distance himself more from Cereberus give plenty of reason for her to join shepard, is any man can hurt cereberus its likely to be shepard.

Well given if Tali does indeed die during suicide mission its likely Kal'reegar would feel responsible to carry on the fight in hers and her fathers memory. Well Liara may play a larger role with intel in ME3 and might possibly send Feron to help.

Well thought Zaaed taking back blue suns might be a good angle to get him back as we likely to see yet another time leap gone by, as i doubt that reapers return from dark space in a days time, seeing as reason they needed the citadel was to launch a surprise attack while at full strength against a unaware enemy, as i think VI said or was it sovereign or data that being docile in dark space weakens the reapers and they regain strength from harvesting galaxies once they rebuilt, which surgest travelling to dark space it probaly a long trip not possible without alot of relay use, and human reaper might well been their last attempt at a quick solution to their starvation problem to say for harvesting.

Modifié par Lowenhart, 21 novembre 2010 - 12:44 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Lowenhart wrote...

Aria has a grudge with Cereberus that she doesnt know about yet(they killed her daughter but she isnt aware of it yet), and seeing as in ME3 shepard is likely gonna distance himself more from Cereberus give plenty of reason for her to join shepard, is any man can hurt cereberus its likely to be shepard.

Well given if Tali does indeed die during suicide mission its likely Kal'reegar would feel responsible to carry on the fight in hers and her fathers memory. Well Liara may play a larger role with intel in ME3 and might possibly send Feron to help.

Well thought Zaaed taking back blue suns might be a good angle to get him back as we likely to see yet another time leap gone by, as i doubt that reapers return from dark space in a days time, seeing as reason they needed the citadel was to launch a surprise attack while at full strength against a unaware enemy, as i think VI said or was it sovereign or data that being docile in dark space weakens the reapers and they regain strength from harvesting galaxies once they rebuilt, which surgest travelling to dark space it probaly a long trip not possible without alot of relay use, and human reaper might well been their last attempt at a quick solution to their starvation problem to say for harvesting.

Aria has a lot more influence as Queen of Omega than as one of SHepard's sidekicks. And Kal'Reeger can die a lot eaiser than Tali can in the game.

[AdmiralCheez]

^What Jedi said.

[MassEffect762]

Cluster_____(fill in the blank) and disappointment come to mind concerning ME3 squad.



I can't see Bioware pleasing everyone here, this will be a topic of disappointment post ME3 I predict.

[AdmiralCheez]

Probably, but hell, might as well throw this stuff out there before it's too late!

[AKOdin]

Interesting Thread. I think it probable that BW will act to conserve/focus dev resources by culling a similar portion of characters from ME2 that they did in ME3. This means that 33% of the characters will be killed/cameos only.

Characters who WON’T be squadmates:
Anderson: Frankly, he is not powerful enough to join the frontlines against the reapers. He is not a biotic, possessed of any sort of technological skills, or superior combat ability (any more). Further, the most recent novel suggests he is retiring/resigning from an active role in the council/alliance, and has a new significant other.

Kal’regaar: Again, nothing in his background suggests he is capable of joining Shepherd’s elite squad. He barely survived against ordinary Geth, and lacks Tali’s superior tech knowledge. Kel is a recon soldier (and prone to infection, apparently). His backstory doesn't seem suited to an epic conclusion and he is pretty pedestrian in power. No reason for him to be in as anything beyond his current type of role.

Wrex: First, he is dead in the canon story. Second, BW created a rather elegant way of including him if players did save him in ME1. A large role rallying the Krogan to help against the Reapers, but not as a squad member.

Thane: I think BW will kill off some characters in the canon resolution of the suicide mission. This allows players who DID save everyone a reward in game, and allows them to reinforce the dangerous nature of the mission “in universe.” Thane is probable as a killed-off character, as his backstory provides a logical reason for him NOT to be a squad member in ME3 even if an import save kept him alive- his progressive and fatal disease. Players who did save him can interact with him in a hospital/convalescence setting. This also allows those who romanced him and saved him resolution in a way that does not require a large amount of Dev resources.

Samara/Morinth: The main possibilities associated with this story arc render it virtually impossible for any scenario BUT NPC/Cameo.
  1) Samara not recruited.
  2) Samara recruited but no loyalty mission, so Morinth AND Samara exist in game. 2a) Samara survives suicide mission. 2b) Samara dies.
  3)Samara recruited but dumped for Morinth, who then either 3a) lives or 3b) dies.
So… to give the arc proper treatment while still making the rest of ME3, I think a kill off in canon with cameos in import is likely. Full squad member treatment would be a nightmare of extra lines, etc…

Mordin: I think his character is awesome, but need for Dev resources make the “he is an old Salarian” argument really powerful. He is past his prime, though still capable of rendering tech/research assistance in base. He could even be a canon kill (ack!) easily replaced by a NPC science/research character if there is no import save. Not a squad member.

Zaeed/Kasumi: Cameos. The backstory for each suggests no reason to stay with Shep once the suicide mission is over. Additionally, as import saves may not contain them/have any contact with them, this is another area where BW can save themselves from development hell by NOT making them potential squadmates.

Potentials

Aria: Given her set up on Omega and BW's desire to create more LotSB-esque DLC, she seems like a solid candidate for an upcoming pack. So, I feel that discussions of her as a squaddie for ME 3 are premature. Her position on Omega could be enhanced or destroyed during the DLC, for example.

Jack: Her back story and dialogue suggests her as an eventual recruit-able character. She MUST be recruited to advance the plot. Further, at the end of ME2, I've seen her reaction to Shep as "F Off" or "I don't want to play." Additionally, nothing in her conversations suggests she has abandoned a life of violence and crime, so it is probable that she makes a beeline for independence once the Collectors are dealt with. Her storyline as a biotic superpower also make her addition desirable in any final confrontations. .

Legion: As a platform designed to contact/interface with organics in general and Shepherd in particular, I think he will be making a return as a squad member in ME3. His "experiences" can be uploaded to the Geth via a FTL connection (as evidenced by EDI allowing connection when you upgrade his weapon)- what need for him to leave organic space?

Kaiden/Ashley: Cameos. The role they play in combat is replaced already (Grunt/Zaeed for Ashley and Miranda/Others? for Kaiden). As LI's, they have been confirmed as being in, but why make them squad members? Easy Alliance liaison role and LI wrapup.

Garrus: I agree that his backstory suggests remaining with Shep, and BW still has a lot they can do with his story when getting the Turians to commit to fight the Reapers. So, pretty probable squad member.

Jacob/Miranda: As potential LI’s, they have to be in, but cameos make the most sense. And like ME2’s treatment of the Virmire situation, the opposite gender is an easy canon kill.

A shoe-in?

Grunt: No reason to leave his battlemaster, and he must be acquired to advance the story. While it is possible for the player to kill him off during the suicide mission, the player has to almost engineer his death.

*looks up* Wow… longer than intended!

(Edited for spelling and clarity)

Modifié par AKOdin, 21 novembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[GodWood]

-sigh-

AKOdin, you're confusing canon with default.

[AdmiralCheez]

Hey, man. AKOdin made some good points. Iffy on the Aria thing, though.

[CroGamer002]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

How should ME3 start?

If ZULU can do it, why I shouldn't do it too?

Let's not necro our own threads, shall we?

Actually is still no necro.

[gethslayer7]

personally all are squad from 2 will be there



miranda

jacob

jack

garrus

mordin

grunt

tali

thane

samara

kasumi

zaeed

wrex or wreave

ashely or kaiden

liara

fenron

koyalt

a blue son

an eclipse

mirandas sister

aria

sheps brother or sister

joker fighter