165 réponses à ce sujet

[Aermas]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Ummm... You can scramble out of them. With Plate you're screwed, all those buckles and straps.

You can't "scramble out" of being burned alive, Isabela's scarf will not protect her from a direct fireball. She can only burn

[AnimaTempli101]

If I might make a point in support of fabric.



Do any of you know how strong silk is? If you wrap a couple of layers of it around a shield, an arrow that would usually tear through the shield is stopped by the silk.

[Piecake]

tmp7704 wrote...

Piecake wrote...

fireball=hot

hot fireball=hot metal

hot metal=painful, burny and possibly melty

Something to consider -- it takes a while for high temperature to warm up the metal nevermind melt it. The game fireballs don't last longer than a second, that's not much of heat source to speak of.

Plus, how is that any worse from being hit by the same hot fireball while wearing clothing that will be instead set on fire?

I imagine that a fireball is a bit hotter than your average stovetop flame.  But hey, if someone gives me some numbers/scientificy explanataion that no matter how hot the fireball/inferno it is, the duration is just too short to heat up the metal Ill drop the subject.  Then again, I never really cared about it anyways, since our characters not wearing full body armor doesnt get my underwear in a bunch

And you dont see the difference between wearing a suit of heated metal and burning cloth?

Modifié par Piecake, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:42 .

[AnimaTempli101]

Am I the only one who sees a problem with people complaining about realism in a game with MAGIC and DRAGONS in it.



(NB: Caps used for emphasis, not noobish yelling)

[Aermas]

Dragons could reasonably exist in the real world, there was a great program on the Discovery Channel about it. As for magic, well I don't know the sciences but it is a genetic trait passed on to mages children so it has that much realism at least. Clark's Third Law is the best explanation to your problem though

[Piecake]

Aermas wrote...

Dragons could reasonably exist in the real world, there was a great program on the Discovery Channel about it. As for magic, well I don't know the sciences but it is a genetic trait passed on to mages children so it has that much realism at least. Clark's Third Law is the best explanation to your problem though

[AnimaTempli101]

How about Qunari, how realistic are they? Or Abominations? Or Shapeshifters? Or ENCHANTMENT?

[AnimaTempli101]

Also, to defend clothing (I also notice nobody's got onto the silk issue I raised earlier) another example of clothing as armour is Assassins Creed(the original, and please don't bite my head off, it's fair play to use it, just as plenty of other people on here use BG etc). In it the protagonist only goes around in a white robe with only a metal vambrace and a small piece of metal over his heart, plus many of his enemies just wear padded tunics. Yet nobody complains about that. How about the parthians? Most their men went into battle in just clothing and they defeated in numerous occasions the heavily armoured Roman Legions.

[Aermas]

Qunari; slightly larger humans with a genetic horn trait.

Abominations; An energy being of significant consciousness attacking the brain of someone who as access to the proper wavelength, the energy being then uses it's own energy signals to override the current nervous system of the "host"

Shapeshifter; If an axolotl can become a salamander, it is not unbelievable that a human can become a bear.

Enchantment; if you heat a sword it will get hot, if you add an insulating element to it then it will be hot for a very long time, then I invest magical energy into a sword & insulate dispersion with lyrium

[Aermas]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Also, to defend clothing (I also notice nobody's got onto the silk issue I raised earlier) another example of clothing as armour is Assassins Creed(the original, and please don't bite my head off, it's fair play to use it, just as plenty of other people on here use BG etc). In it the protagonist only goes around in a white robe with only a metal vambrace and a small piece of metal over his heart, plus many of his enemies just wear padded tunics. Yet nobody complains about that. How about the parthians? Most their men went into battle in just clothing and they defeated in numerous occasions the heavily armoured Roman Legions.

& in the Harry Potter game they used wands to cast magic, so should all mages have to use wands?
ASSASSIN"S CREED was a niche game, you play an annoying assassin/thief & for all that parcour you should wear a lot of plate. Plus whole game was unrealistic.

[AnimaTempli101]

That is some pretty terrible logic.

[errant_knight]

Having clothing that does the same thing as armor defeats the point. Why have or wear armors if someone in a very special shirt has similar protection? Clothing as armor only works if no one is wearing armor,

[AnimaTempli101]

And what about my point raised about silk? The parthians? In Ancient Greece armour for the Hoplites, who fought on the front-line of battle, was sometimes a corselet of stiffened linen.

[tmp7704]

Piecake wrote...

I imagine that a fireball is a bit hotter than your average stovetop flame.

Given the flame colour i imagine it's on par with most other flames i.e. ~1000-1500 degrees Celsius. Now, when was the last time you saw a blackmith just stick piece of metal into flame for a second and start hammering away? Or the branding iron being effectively used after equally short exposure to the flame?

Iron has pretty high heat capacity when it comes to metals (much higher than say, gold or copper) so it doesn't heat up as fast as these other metals do.

And you dont see the difference between wearing a suit of heated metal and burning cloth?

You're subjected to the same flesh-burning temperature in both cases.

Modifié par tmp7704, 22 novembre 2010 - 01:09 .

[AnimaTempli101]

Aermas, now you got me confused. How the hell do you need plate armour for free-running? That makes no sense whatsoever. Plate inhibits movement and adds a large amount of weight, all of which go against what you need for free-running.

[Aermas]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

That is some pretty terrible logic.

It was sarcasm. Not logic. I was showcasing that it is wrong to try to include rules from a niche game, especially one named Assassin's Creed. Writers will wright things to make it interesting, but not necessarily realistic. In all reality the Assassin would have been cornered when he slept & killed by a squad of hardened knights. But since no one wants to play a game where you will die the first time you get into combat they have to find ways around the realism & use author's license to keep the Assassin alive

[Aermas]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

And what about my point raised about silk? The parthians? In Ancient Greece armour for the Hoplites, who fought on the front-line of battle, was sometimes a corselet of stiffened linen.

Do you know how many layers it had? & that it was held together by a super powerful epoxy, that was the basis of the whole shield? When force was exerted the epoxy would cause all the linen to contract together to stop the penetration of the weapon

[AnimaTempli101]

Sorry, the logic bit was for the post before that, about how you justified enchantment etc.

[Aermas]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Sorry, the logic bit was for the post before that, about how you justified enchantment etc.

Well first of all "enchanting" is a form of magic dealing with charming & beguiling people, that is where you get the saying that "she was enchanting" it does mean she could deal extra fire damage. What the game means by "enchanting" is actually Invocation which means to "call in", it is a practice of infusing something with energy & binding it. We can do this with heat, & if magic existed we could do it with magic.

[AnimaTempli101]

Well it seems we' ve reached an impasse and neither side I'd willing to back down on the issue. So I say than rather than keep this argument going, eventually degenerating into repeating the same thing over and over again, I say we agree to disagree and end this discussion.

[Grand_Commander13]

Agreeing to disagree is really only pointful in real life exchanges where turning around and walking away is more likely to be noticed, as you can see someone leaving and there aren't half a dozen people arguing either side.

Besides, the stripper ninja assassin side really doesn't have much to stand on except "we don't understand how heat transfer works" and "it's a video game, idiots."

[g-vapen]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Am I the only one who sees a problem with people complaining about realism in a game with MAGIC and DRAGONS in it.

(NB: Caps used for emphasis, not noobish yelling)

You and me both. Finding realism in fantasy; it is a paradoxical conundrum.

[Grand_Commander13]

g-vapen wrote...

You and me both. Finding realism in fantasy; it is a paradoxical conundrum.

Oh man, not this garbage again.

Okay, very slowly for the comprehension-impaired: worlds should be self-consistent.  We know people in Dragon Age spend a great deal of money on armor, so it must be pointful.  One does not spend a lot of money on fashion accessories for soldiers, so we can assume that the point is protection from damage.  Therefore, it should be safer to wear armor than to not wear armor.

^If that all sounds like a big "no duh" to you, why do you then say that people should both: 1) Not wear armor; and 2) Be just as protected as people who do.

[errant_knight]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

And what about my point raised about silk? The parthians? In Ancient Greece armour for the Hoplites, who fought on the front-line of battle, was sometimes a corselet of stiffened linen.

Which would be fine against people wearing a similar, or only slightly better armor, like the learher armor of the Greeks. If you put it up against plate or chain, and make it effective, then you make th plate or chain useless given how much of a stamina cost there is to wearing it. And why wear light armor if clothes will do? It becomes even more poiintless than plate. Basically, the whole armor system comes apart. Now, they could replace light armor with clothing that was armor-like, say, gambesons, but it has to look significantly more padded and substantial than normal clothing, or battles become fairly unvelievable

[Ziggeh]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Okay, very slowly for the comprehension-impaired: worlds should be self-consistent.

Completely agree, internal consistency is important, especially in fantasy, but I would contend that that's not the same thing as realism; that the idiosyncrasies of the game world override things like real life physical laws and actual combat mechanics.