165 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand_Commander13]

Usually when someone speaks of "realism" in a world with magic they mean "internal consistency." I strongly doubt any of them are as stupid as their detractors might think (imagine, someone missing the existence of magic in Dragon Age), and all they are asking is that the world take its own rules into account.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Aermas wrote...

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

And what about my point raised about silk? The parthians? In Ancient Greece armour for the Hoplites, who fought on the front-line of battle, was sometimes a corselet of stiffened linen.

Do you know how many layers it had? & that it was held together by a super powerful epoxy, that was the basis of the whole shield? When force was exerted the epoxy would cause all the linen to contract together to stop the penetration of the weapon

AND armor made of linen looked like...surprise.... body armor!

Modifié par The Woldan , 22 novembre 2010 - 02:03 .

[Ziggeh]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Usually when someone speaks of "realism" in a world with magic they mean "internal consistency." I strongly doubt any of them are as stupid as their detractors might think (imagine, someone missing the existence of magic in Dragon Age), and all they are asking is that the world take its own rules into account.

Indeed, and I'd agree that, as the topic requests, amour be worn were appropriate (though I seem to have a different definition of that appropriation than others); but when we're discussing the relative merits of real world armours, when within the game they represent graphical textures and an armour classification it does start to read as a little strange and obsessive. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'd just be soothed to know everyone understood this.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 22 novembre 2010 - 02:07 .

[g-vapen]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...
Oh man, not this garbage again.

Okay, very slowly for the comprehension-impaired: worlds should be self-consistent.  We know people in Dragon Age spend a great deal of money on armor, so it must be pointful.  One does not spend a lot of money on fashion accessories for soldiers, so we can assume that the point is protection from damage.  Therefore, it should be safer to wear armor than to not wear armor.

^If that all sounds like a big "no duh" to you, why do you then say that people should both: 1) Not wear armor; and 2) Be just as protected as people who do.

I'm late to the party so I wasn't really paying attention on all arguments going on in this topic. What animatempli posted just resounded to me after reading complaints around this forum.

DA is Bioware's fantasy game. If the writers want to put something ludicrous like atomic giant space nugs invading Thedas or pants that grants +20 in armor in DA just to crush your realm of self-consistency, I am not going to second guess them. We can cry foul all we want but it's their work and they have every right to change it, even if they have crush a couple of fanboy/girls skulls to get there.

[Grand_Commander13]

I second guessed them up and down Mass Effect 2 after they decided that mercenaries wore armor as a fashion accessory, and I'll second guess them up and down Dragon Age 2 if they do it again.

[Elisheva]

this is soooooooo true i don't care what i ware as long as I have a good weapon to take out my enemy.

[Giant ambush beetle]

We can cry foul all we want but it's their work and they have every right to change it, even if they have crush a couple of fanboy/girls skulls to get there.

And we customers have rights as well; we can do much more than just crying foul, we can decide to not buy the game...

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DetailedSubset wrote...

Jarek_Cousland wrote...
 I could care less

I'm an American and I hate, hate "could care less."  Forget the queen.

Though I think "hold down the fort" is a portmanteau of "hold it down" and "hold the fort" but that's just a guess.  The former meaning something along the lines of "by my very presence I am representing some idea" and the latter meaning "through this activity, I am supporting the idea."  Vaguely speaking.  Ergo, "hold down the fort" implies that the speaker's simple presence is an action in support of the idea.

Indeed, I'm surprised one could be offended at that last one. Plenty of English-language idioms make no sense, in or out of context. For instance, how does one "crack up" laughing? No one is shattering. Nothing is breaking. Little fissures aren't appearing all over their body.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 novembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[tmp7704]

g-vapen wrote...

DA is Bioware's fantasy game. If the writers want to put something ludicrous like atomic giant space nugs invading Thedas or pants that grants +20 in armor in DA just to crush your realm of self-consistency, I am not going to second guess them.

They could always have these pants be made out of skin of atomic giant space nug, for consistency

[TheMufflon]

Aermas wrote...

Qunari; slightly larger humans with a genetic horn trait.
Abominations; An energy being of significant consciousness attacking the brain of someone who as access to the proper wavelength, the energy being then uses it's own energy signals to override the current nervous system of the "host"
Shapeshifter; If an axolotl can become a salamander, it is not unbelievable that a human can become a bear.
Enchantment; if you heat a sword it will get hot, if you add an insulating element to it then it will be hot for a very long time, then I invest magical energy into a sword & insulate dispersion with lyrium

No. Just... no.

[SirOccam]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

^If that all sounds like a big "no duh" to you, why do you then say that people should both: 1) Not wear armor; and 2) Be just as protected as people who do.

Because it's fun to be able to wear what you want? If you enjoy wearing armor, then go ahead and wear it. If someone thinks it's more fun (for whatever reason) to wear lighter armor or clothing, then it doesn't really hurt you if they are given that opportunity.

Anyway, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here; I don't think clothing needs to be as protective as plate. If it's protective enough that it doesn't make the game all but impossible to beat, or if easier difficulty levels can make up for it, then there's really no problem.

I went without hats on my mages in DAO, even though it meant I had less protection. A purely aesthetic choice, but one which I enjoyed having the ability to make. If it was the case that going hat-less made me critically vulnerable and that much more prone to death, it would be less fun for me, because I'd have to choose between looking stupid (in my opinion) and having the game significantly harder. Why punish people for wanting to look good?

Reminds me of back when I played a Paladin in EQ1...there was a guy whose motto was "To do good, you must look good."

[Aermas]

The Woldan wrote...

Aermas wrote...

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

And what about my point raised about silk? The parthians? In Ancient Greece armour for the Hoplites, who fought on the front-line of battle, was sometimes a corselet of stiffened linen.

Do you know how many layers it had? & that it was held together by a super powerful epoxy, that was the basis of the whole shield? When force was exerted the epoxy would cause all the linen to contract together to stop the penetration of the weapon

AND armor made of linen looked like...surprise.... body armor!

I believe that is a linen gameson, with metal armor over top, yes this is armor, not good armor, but armor none the less. & if this was what Isabela was wearing I wouldn't be on this thread arguing with people. Fact is that she is not wearing anything close to this.

[Shad0wOGRE]

Ryzaki wrote...

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Uhhh...


Ok I'm sorry but you just confused me, you like more combat efficent clothing or no?


:blink::blink::blink:

How is Isabela's outfit combat efficent? 

She's wearing a loose scarf and head...scarf. -Can be grabbed at by her opponent or catch onto something if she's not fighting in an open area.

She has a sizable amount of gold on her neck- Weighs her down.

Her body isn't completely covered by anything more protective by clothes - If she ends up being fired at (by arrows) or manages to fail to dodge a blow she's gonna get hit hard. Particulary if the blow ends up landing on her vulnerable and exposed thighs, or legs. Her chest has a giant "Aim here" sign due to having nothing more protective than that skintight shirt. Her legs aren't protected by anything other than those boots and they don't protect her inner tighs.

And then the party mage uses magic to restore her to full health.

[errant_knight]

CommanderNuetral wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Jarek_Cousland wrote...

Uhhh...


Ok I'm sorry but you just confused me, you like more combat efficent clothing or no?


:blink::blink::blink:

How is Isabela's outfit combat efficent? 

She's wearing a loose scarf and head...scarf. -Can be grabbed at by her opponent or catch onto something if she's not fighting in an open area.

She has a sizable amount of gold on her neck- Weighs her down.

Her body isn't completely covered by anything more protective by clothes - If she ends up being fired at (by arrows) or manages to fail to dodge a blow she's gonna get hit hard. Particulary if the blow ends up landing on her vulnerable and exposed thighs, or legs. Her chest has a giant "Aim here" sign due to having nothing more protective than that skintight shirt. Her legs aren't protected by anything other than those boots and they don't protect her inner tighs.

And then the party mage uses magic to restore her to full health.

Nah, I'd just heal her a little in hopes that she learns something and stops dressing like a damn fool. Her clothes are probably relatively okay for a pirtate ship (well, accept for the 'no pants' thing.) You wouldn't want to fall overboard in armor, but once she's in Kirkwall, it's just not smart.

[Sir JK]

errant_knight wrote...
Nah, I'd just heal her a little in hopes that she learns something and stops dressing like a damn fool. Her clothes are probably relatively okay for a pirtate ship (well, accept for the 'no pants' thing.) You wouldn't want to fall overboard in armor, but once she's in Kirkwall, it's just not smart.

Then again, in Kirkwall she's also a shipwreck survivor that has lost everything she owns except what she's carrying on her. Contrary to popular belief, armour is not particularly cheap.

[Ryzaki]

CommanderNuetral wrote...


And then the party mage uses magic to restore her to full health.

Yeah right. My mages aren't wasting valuable mana when the issue could've been avoided by her wearing armor. That mana could go towards something more useful. Like killing enemies.

[Grand_Commander13]

Armor is man's way of saying "survival of the smartest, sucker!"

[tmp7704]

Sir JK wrote...

Then again, in Kirkwall she's also a shipwreck survivor that has lost everything she owns except what she's carrying on her. Contrary to popular belief, armour is not particularly cheap.

I dunno, it tends to come free on dead people -- vendors in DAO seem to pay quite a plenty for it. Free money also comes with the said corpses.Of course the owners have to drop dead first but that's not a problem for a skilled duelist, and there's supposedly quite a few willing donors trying to catch her.

[errant_knight]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

Then again, in Kirkwall she's also a shipwreck survivor that has lost everything she owns except what she's carrying on her. Contrary to popular belief, armour is not particularly cheap.

I dunno, it tends to come free on dead people -- vendors in DAO seem to pay quite a plenty for it. Free money also comes with the said corpses.Of course the owners have to drop dead first but that's not a problem for a skilled duelist, and there's supposedly quite a few willing donors trying to catch her.

I have to agree. Isabella seems highly capable. I'm quite certain she could get herself some armor if she wanted to.

[Sir JK]

tmp7704: I'll avoid arguing the economics of the game since that's a bit off topic. But I see two flaws with the idea of taking it from the dead:



1. It does in fact involve killing someone. The city guard tends to be rather upset when that happens. The "leave the city as soon as you can"-kind of upset.

2. The fact that you took it form the dead do say one or two things about the armour in question, now doesn't it It's sort of the worst grade armour can get: Its' wearer died.



There's also the realism argument if you wish to apply it: It probably won't fit.



But I think errant_knight is correct, Isabela definantely could acquire armour if she wanted to (a sponsor if nothing else). Wanted being the keyword.

[Grand_Commander13]

And Isabella, being a warrior, would want something to block a sword slice. Unless she was a twit or arrogant as all get out.

Of course there's also the fact that in the world of Dragon Age loot functions very oddly. The "this armor will automatically fit me" trope is old enough that I've become resigned to it (you wouldn't see me complaining if it stopped though), but I still get irked when enemies don't drop the weapon they were using and will instead drop something completely at random.

If Bioware were to change this for Dragon Age 3 I'd consider it a personal favor. Heck, probably a round of beer for the whole design department if they wanted to hold me to it.

[errant_knight]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

And Isabella, being a warrior, would want something to block a sword slice. Unless she was a twit or arrogant as all get out.
Of course there's also the fact that in the world of Dragon Age loot functions very oddly. The "this armor will automatically fit me" trope is old enough that I've become resigned to it (you wouldn't see me complaining if it stopped though), but I still get irked when enemies don't drop the weapon they were using and will instead drop something completely at random.
If Bioware were to change this for Dragon Age 3 I'd consider it a personal favor. Heck, probably a round of beer for the whole design department if they wanted to hold me to it.

I wouldn't mind that, but there must be some reason that they don't. I'd think it would be simpler. Maybe because if you got everyone's armor and weapons it would be like gold growing on trees? I'm pretty much fine with any method, though, as long as we can use what we find for ourselves and out party. The only time I roll my eyes is when you get armor and the like off wolves, etc. An amulet, maybe. You could find it in the stomach when you skin it, but not big stuff. Probably shouldn't find poultices, either. Applying health aids you've found in a digestive tract is probably a bad idea.

[tmp7704]

Sir JK wrote...

tmp7704: I'll avoid arguing the economics of the game since that's a bit off topic. But I see two flaws with the idea of taking it from the dead:

1. It does in fact involve killing someone. The city guard tends to be rather upset when that happens. The "leave the city as soon as you can"-kind of upset.
2. The fact that you took it form the dead do say one or two things about the armour in question, now doesn't it It's sort of the worst grade armour can get: Its' wearer died. 

ad 1, from the description we got i believe the very situation Isabela is in boils down to her not being welcome in Kirkwall. This amuses her and she sees no reason to comply, but rather a thrilling game she enjoys.

ad 2, that's why i specifically mentioned vendors   based on Warden's experience even the worst piece of junk armour can be turned into shiny coin, and that in turn into armour quite better than the usual sort. Heck, she probably could get it customized with easy access port, if it's so important -- it's just matter of money after all, and the pirates have no qualms about getting said money from others, by force. And care little what the authorities may think of that.

[Sir JK]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

And Isabella, being a warrior, would want something to block a sword slice.

She's a swashbuckler though, not a warrior. That's sort of my argument. She's the type that if she can choose either doesn't fight at all or fights when there's no risk to her. Either she doesn't need armour or she'll never have the time to equip it.
Also, even in plate that swordslice to the torso is perfectly capable of breaking her ribs (and contrary to what Hollywood tells us, you're not fighitng with broken ribs). It will have saved her life, but the fight is still over. It doesn't actually improve her chances to win, just to survive the hits she does take.
If you take a hit you failed to defend yourself. All armour does is allow you a chance to survive that failure. No more, no less.

If Bioware were to change this for Dragon Age 3 I'd consider it a personal favor. Heck, probably a round of beer for the whole design department if they wanted to hold me to it.

I would also like to see many fantasy tropes of that sort vanish. But I prefer Bioware making the games they think they will be good. But if the two ever coincode: Yay!

[tmp7704]

Sir JK wrote...

All armour does is allow you a chance to survive that failure. No more, no less.

Allowing one a chance to survive the failure is pretty good reason, though. Not sure if "more" is really needed to warrant such investment. Especially for someone who seems to be quite attached to staying alive (as Isabela appears to be, going by her DAO dialogue and choices)