885 réponses à ce sujet

[Hollingdale]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

The problem with paraphrasing is overstated on theese boards. Especially considering I've yet to hear a single alternative spoken of (apart from simply not having a voiced PC, *sigh*) that can hold up to that which is employed in the Mass Effect franchise and will also be used in Dragon Age 2.

?

The alternatives are heavily paraphrased I don't see your point.

Furthermore those are scenes from Origins, which doesn't have a voiced PC and hence also has different standards regarding how cutscenes are done. Theese solutions would not work in more complex cases and in fact they are even less precise than those of Mass Effect because whether an alternative is considered good, neutral or evil is not obvious by the placing of the options, they are only obvious because of the simplicity of the options which is due to the simplicity of the scene.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

No, voices aren't really worth it. I'll be brief. Most people don't have much imagination so they like flashy visuals and for someone to read all that text for them.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Hollingdale wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

The problem with paraphrasing is overstated on theese boards. Especially considering I've yet to hear a single alternative spoken of (apart from simply not having a voiced PC, *sigh*) that can hold up to that which is employed in the Mass Effect franchise and will also be used in Dragon Age 2.

?

The alternatives are heavily paraphrased I don't see your point.

Furthermore those are scenes from Origins, which doesn't have a voiced PC and hence also has different standards regarding how cutscenes are done. Theese solutions would not work in more complex cases and in fact they are even less precise than those of Mass Effect because whether an alternative is considered good, neutral or evil is not obvious by the placing of the options, they are only obvious because of the simplicity of the options which is due to the simplicity of the scene.

It's the technique. The Warden being silent has no bearing on the subject.

An old-school *accurate* description of what you're about to say with which intention (or, in which tone, if you will). Not as simple as "attack" and "be nice to him", perhaps, but again, it's the technique.

[Ziggeh]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

No, voices aren't really worth it. I'll be brief. Most people don't have much imagination so they like flashy visuals and for someone to read all that text for them.

I agree with your last statement and think it's an argument against your first.

[In Exile]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

No, voices aren't really worth it. I'll be brief. Most people don't have much imagination so they like flashy visuals and for someone to read all that text for them.

It has nothing to do with an imagination. I'm playing a video-game. If I wanted to use my imagination, I'd ask Bioware to sent me a copy of the script and some figurines.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

So you don't feel you, yourself are a participant and therefore interacting with the game beyond pointing and clicking to fight enemies of your PC? You must have fun in character generation then.

[Ziggeh]

In Exile wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

No, voices aren't really worth it. I'll be brief. Most people don't have much imagination so they like flashy visuals and for someone to read all that text for them.

It has nothing to do with an imagination. I'm playing a video-game. If I wanted to use my imagination, I'd ask Bioware to sent me a copy of the script and some figurines.

That would be extremely limiting to your imagination. You'd be much better served sitting in the dark and dreaming of fantasy worlds. Fun and economical.

[Ryzaki]

I agree with the voices aren't worth it but I don't think it's due to a lack of imagination.



Gah. A voiced PC. There are few things worse.



Well...for me anyways.

[In Exile]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

So you don't feel you, yourself are a participant and therefore interacting with the game beyond pointing and clicking to fight enemies of your PC? You must have fun in character generation then.

I certainly do. But what does that have to do with inventing content for myself? And character generation means different things to different people. I could spent hours getting apperance right, but unlike others on this forum, I don't write personal histories or anything of the sort.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

In Exile wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

So you don't feel you, yourself are a participant and therefore interacting with the game beyond pointing and clicking to fight enemies of your PC? You must have fun in character generation then.

I certainly do. But what does that have to do with inventing content for myself? And character generation means different things to different people. I could spent hours getting apperance right, but unlike others on this forum, I don't write personal histories or anything of the sort.

So you are okay with being given a very linear story with a set protagonist (due to the voice over and set race) and restricted classes?

[Dave of Canada]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

So you are okay with being given a very linear story with a set protagonist (due to the voice over and set race) and restricted classes?

What?

Warden was always the Warden, he/she was always a mage / warrior / rogue and he/she always stopped the Blight.

[Ziggeh]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

So you are okay with being given a very linear story with a set protagonist (due to the voice over and set race) and restricted classes?

Who says it's very linear? Nothing about a fixed PC effects the divergence of the narrative.

[In Exile]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

So you are okay with being given a very linear story with a set protagonist (due to the voice over and set race) and restricted classes?

It depends on what you mean by this. I don't have the same dim view of restrictions others do. Put simply, I think the advantage to a more scripted story is a tighter and more involved story for the PC in terms of actual in-game content.

So I would like a story that is more linear than it is free-roam, and I would like a protagonist that is more defined than not.

As for the classes, I would certainly like the class to feature in the story, so to that extent I suppose I would be in fan of it.

[DanaScu]

TS2Aggie wrote...

I vote that everyone who complains about Mark Meer's voice gets their versions of ME1 and ME2 male voice replaced with Gilbert Gottfried.

Wouldn't matter much. I'd never use him either.

The really strange thing is that its only [so far] his Shepard that annoys me so badly. I liked Athras, Mikhael Dryden, Tug, and heck, even Zhong the Ox Carrier was fine. Its just Shepard, for some reason.

[AlanC9]

Blastback wrote...
By no means were Baldur's Gate's sales insignifigant, but Bioware has grown alot since then.  They probably could have stayed more niche if they hadn't grown, but that's not a realistic option.  

You mean "become a niche company." Bio has never been a niche company by desire or temperament. Some of Bio's self -described core fans think of themselves as a niche audience but that's about them, not Bio.

[Atakuma]

DanaScu wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

I vote that everyone who complains about Mark Meer's voice gets their versions of ME1 and ME2 male voice replaced with Gilbert Gottfried.

Wouldn't matter much. I'd never use him either.

The really strange thing is that its only [so far] his Shepard that annoys me so badly. I liked Athras, Mikhael Dryden, Tug, and heck, even Zhong the Ox Carrier was fine. Its just Shepard, for some reason.

I know what you mean. It's like they asked him to sound like a robot.

[Maria Caliban]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

So you are okay with being given a very linear story with a set protagonist (due to the voice over and set race) and restricted classes?

Yes.

I'm also getting Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: Human Revolution when it comes out and I just finished Divinity 2. Planescape is one of my favorite 'old school' RPGs.

All of those are more restrictive than DA 2 will be and I have no problem with them.

[Hollingdale]

In Exile wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

No, voices aren't really worth it. I'll be brief. Most people don't have much imagination so they like flashy visuals and for someone to read all that text for them.

It has nothing to do with an imagination. I'm playing a video-game. If I wanted to use my imagination, I'd ask Bioware to sent me a copy of the script and some figurines.

 You realize that you are being completely black and white for no real reason? 

[TRSniper4]

Did anybody here make the mistake of purchasing Gothic 3: Forsaken Gods? I LOVED the voice acting in Gothic 3, but the Forsaken Gods expansion pack had the worst VA in history. All the NPC's talked like total wussies, and one even said: "(Name) is a very MEAN man!" To make matters worse, the FG main character talked like an over exaggerated Superman; "Greetings citizen! There is sadness on your face!"

[Sidney]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

So you are okay with being given a very linear story with a set protagonist (due to the voice over and set race) and restricted classes?

Yeah, because playing a role doesn't depend on any of that stuff. Ever done any acting? You've got a linear story, a set protangonist and god help you predefined responses to dialogue unless you are doing improv.

Very little of the character personalization ever matters in an RPG.  Think about reallly what all that goofing around does for you in game....really nothing. In DAO there's some throw away "Hey you're an elf" lines every 10 hours of gameplay and gender matter at the margins in the LI story. I created the most lumpen, mishapen, monstrosity of a being to be seen since that kid plucking on a banjo in Deliverance and the effect on any aspect of the story, none. The equivilent of DAO would be to have a role playing game set in 1930's America where you can choose to be black or white but the game plays out the same either way.

If the more narrow selection of a protagonists charcteristics means that I can get more depth to the story that character is in then that's good because I'd rather a mile deep and a inch wide than the other way around. That depth and the choices afforded by that depth are what allow me to feel like I own a character not what they look and sound like.

[Aggie Punbot]

So this is essentially the video gamer's version of the Subbed vs Dubbed debate. Lovely.

[Jshay512]

In Exile wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

No, voices aren't really worth it. I'll be brief. Most people don't have much imagination so they like flashy visuals and for someone to read all that text for them.

It has nothing to do with an imagination. I'm playing a video-game. If I wanted to use my imagination, I'd ask Bioware to sent me a copy of the script and some figurines.

No offense but arn't RPG's suppose to be mostly imagination... I thought that was the whole point of role playing...

[Jshay512]

Hollingdale wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

The problem with paraphrasing is overstated on theese boards. Especially considering I've yet to hear a single alternative spoken of (apart from simply not having a voiced PC, *sigh*) that can hold up to that which is employed in the Mass Effect franchise and will also be used in Dragon Age 2.

?

The alternatives are heavily paraphrased I don't see your point.

Furthermore those are scenes from Origins, which doesn't have a voiced PC and hence also has different standards regarding how cutscenes are done. Theese solutions would not work in more complex cases and in fact they are even less precise than those of Mass Effect because whether an alternative is considered good, neutral or evil is not obvious by the placing of the options, they are only obvious because of the simplicity of the options which is due to the simplicity of the scene.

Also these scenes are being done by people who are already known to be either really sarcastic and mean and someone really nice and kind. What they are going to say by the paraphrase is easy to tell. When it is the PC who is doing the paraphrasing is the fact that you are the one who makes up if your character is nice or mean so it is different from the links.

[SirOccam]

Jshay512 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

No, voices aren't really worth it. I'll be brief. Most people don't have much imagination so they like flashy visuals and for someone to read all that text for them.

It has nothing to do with an imagination. I'm playing a video-game. If I wanted to use my imagination, I'd ask Bioware to sent me a copy of the script and some figurines.

No offense but arn't RPG's suppose to be mostly imagination... I thought that was the whole point of role playing...

Should we all still be playing Zork then? After all, graphics are just for people who don't have much imagination, right?

Imagination is an integral part of RPGs, yes, but you have to consider the medium in which it's presented. Modern video games, especially one which has been described as more cinematic, like DA2, shouldn't have lots of text. Some is fine, of course, but at some point you're just not using the medium to its full potential. It's like silent movies. Sure, someone could make one if they wanted, but film is an auditory and visual medium, and to eschew one or both of those would be a step backwards.

I hate the argument that anyone in favor of reducing the amount of text to read must have a limited attention span or has some other problem. Some of us feel like the use of text is often clumsy or outmoded. It might have been the standard back in the day when fully-voiced characters were out of the question financially, but video game design has advanced since then. Having an actor say a line instead of simply displaying it for the player to read is definitely going to be more interesting, and it has nothing to do with some kind of aversion to reading.

[philbo1965uk]

So in summary then....some people like the idea of a VA and some don't.

The one's that prefer reading a sentence and selecting the option...say so.

The one's that prefer VA...have to make up a lot of excuses to counter the inadaquacies of paraphrasing and spend the remainder of their posts trying to sell it.

I think the OP has been answered...the consensus demonstrating that VA are suitable for characters (worth it) but not for the PC (not worth it)

Modifié par philbo1965uk, 21 novembre 2010 - 02:31 .