885 réponses à ce sujet

[Nighteye2]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...
There is a really easy solution for all those who don't like the vioce acting:
press mute, turn on subtitles, enjoy.
However let those who like the vioce acting (like me) enjoy it.

That only works if only the player is muted, and the option also replaces the dialogue wheel by a full-text menu.

Otherwise, you are left with only downsides. You miss out on all the good things that have been sacrificed for the VA, as well as the VA itself. >_>

We all have to make sacrifices. If the voice acting matters to you that much, there's your solution.

I couldn't care less about the voice acting. I do, however, care about all the things that were cut because of the voice acting.

I'd rather have a choice of race, multiple origins and full-text - instead of a voiced protagonist with those inaccurate paraphrases in that dialogue wheel.

[upsettingshorts]

As far as the paraphrases go: They're accurate in terms of effect. They're not precise in terms of language or action.

[Atakuma]

Nighteye2 wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...
There is a really easy solution for all those who don't like the vioce acting:
press mute, turn on subtitles, enjoy.
However let those who like the vioce acting (like me) enjoy it.

That only works if only the player is muted, and the option also replaces the dialogue wheel by a full-text menu.

Otherwise, you are left with only downsides. You miss out on all the good things that have been sacrificed for the VA, as well as the VA itself. >_>

We all have to make sacrifices. If the voice acting matters to you that much, there's your solution.

I couldn't care less about the voice acting. I do, however, care about all the things that were cut because of the voice acting.

I'd rather have a choice of race, multiple origins and full-text - instead of a voiced protagonist with those inaccurate paraphrases in that dialogue wheel.

you were never promised any of those things for DA2, so your argument claiming that it was cut doesn't hold any weight.

[Nighteye2]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

As far as the paraphrases go: They're accurate in terms of effect. They're not precise in terms of language or action.

Yes, and that's just not good enough. I want to be the one in control of my character, and I can't feel that way if I don't know every word my character is going to say. I don't want to feel like I'm watching an interactive movie, detached from my PC. I want to feel as if the PC is an extension of myself, my avatar in the game world. I cannot do that if my character does not obey my commands by saying things I did not select.

[Nighteye2]

Atakuma wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...
There is a really easy solution for all those who don't like the vioce acting:
press mute, turn on subtitles, enjoy.
However let those who like the vioce acting (like me) enjoy it.

That only works if only the player is muted, and the option also replaces the dialogue wheel by a full-text menu.

Otherwise, you are left with only downsides. You miss out on all the good things that have been sacrificed for the VA, as well as the VA itself. >_>

We all have to make sacrifices. If the voice acting matters to you that much, there's your solution.

I couldn't care less about the voice acting. I do, however, care about all the things that were cut because of the voice acting.

I'd rather have a choice of race, multiple origins and full-text - instead of a voiced protagonist with those inaccurate paraphrases in that dialogue wheel.

you were never promised any of those things for DA2, so your argument claiming that it was cut doesn't hold any weight.

It was cut in comparison to DA:O. Instead of carrying over those good features to the sequel.

[upsettingshorts]

I'm not disputing that it's that way for you - it isn't for me - just being pedantic about word choice. I understand the argument, but that's not how I've ever played CRPGs, hence why I'm a big fan of the dialogue wheel. It's simply a question of approaches.

And "good features" is entirely subjective.  Personally I think voiceovers with a silent protagonist is the worst dialogue system for a CRPG I can think of, compared to full-text or full-voiceover.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:25 .

[Jshay512]

Nighteye2 wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...
There is a really easy solution for all those who don't like the vioce acting:
press mute, turn on subtitles, enjoy.
However let those who like the vioce acting (like me) enjoy it.

That only works if only the player is muted, and the option also replaces the dialogue wheel by a full-text menu.

Otherwise, you are left with only downsides. You miss out on all the good things that have been sacrificed for the VA, as well as the VA itself. >_>

We all have to make sacrifices. If the voice acting matters to you that much, there's your solution.

I couldn't care less about the voice acting. I do, however, care about all the things that were cut because of the voice acting.

I'd rather have a choice of race, multiple origins and full-text - instead of a voiced protagonist with those inaccurate paraphrases in that dialogue wheel.

People that keep asking for multiple origins don't get that the point of the game is for a human refugee to fight his way into becoming a champion. It wouldn't work as well if it was and elf or dwarf. The dialog wheel will actually be a pretty cool idea if they do it well.

Modifié par Jshay512, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:32 .

[Atakuma]

Nighteye2 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...
There is a really easy solution for all those who don't like the vioce acting:
press mute, turn on subtitles, enjoy.
However let those who like the vioce acting (like me) enjoy it.

That only works if only the player is muted, and the option also replaces the dialogue wheel by a full-text menu.

Otherwise, you are left with only downsides. You miss out on all the good things that have been sacrificed for the VA, as well as the VA itself. >_>

We all have to make sacrifices. If the voice acting matters to you that much, there's your solution.

I couldn't care less about the voice acting. I do, however, care about all the things that were cut because of the voice acting.

I'd rather have a choice of race, multiple origins and full-text - instead of a voiced protagonist with those inaccurate paraphrases in that dialogue wheel.

you were never promised any of those things for DA2, so your argument claiming that it was cut doesn't hold any weight.

It was cut in comparison to DA:O. Instead of carrying over those good features to the sequel.

This assumes they intended to have origin choices for each game and decided not to soley because of the PC voice over.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Silent protagonist worked reasonably well with Morrowind where people you talked to responded with non-dubbed lines.

Voiced protagonist worked reasonably well with Mass Effect where people you talked to responded with dubbed lines.

Silent protagonist worked not-so-well with Dragon Age: Origins where people you talked to responded with dubbed lines. Complete with body language and gestures. While your character was simply standing over there like a lamppost in winter.

I think the only way silent protagonist will work remotely well is if you don't see your character during the conversations. Like in Oblivion where the camera would promptly zoom on the conversation partner as soon as the conversation was initiated, whether in first person or third person mode. And that's a system more suited in pairs; it would have trouble handling more than two people talking.

So, I think dubbing the protagonist is a good move. I expect it to remove the artificial feeling to a great extent.

[ejoslin]

Morroian wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

It makes me sad. I'd rather have twice as many conversations than a voiced protagonist. I'm assuming a voiced protagonist means twice the resources used for each conversation.

The number of lines of dialogue is reportedly more than origins.

Voiced lines or lines in general?  If only voiced lines, that will still be less than half of what is in DA:O as a voiced protagonist adds a LOT of lines.  And even if it's all lines, it probably will still be fewer/shorter conversations as every single dialog has to be different for males and females, rather than just a few differences. 

I would think it's the reduction of conversations that causes the game to be about half the length of Origins.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[upsettingshorts]

ejoslin wrote...

Morroian wrote...
The number of lines of dialogue is reportedly more than origins.

Voiced lines or lines in general?

If the game is fully voiced, is there any difference?

[Big Blue Car]

There will never be another huge, Infinity Engine-esque RPG because people these days want voices for everyone. Even if the VA is bad and the writing worse, that will always take precedence over large, frequent, unvoiced quests with multiple conclusions.



It sucks. The sheer quantity of game that could be made if devs dropped the cinematic polish and just built a world is staggering, it makes me feel old that I'd prefer that to what we have today.

[Maria Caliban]

Nighteye2 wrote...

I couldn't care less about the voice acting. I do, however, care about all the things that were cut because of the voice acting.

I'd rather have a choice of race, multiple origins and full-text - instead of a voiced protagonist with those inaccurate paraphrases in that dialogue wheel.

If there were no PC voice, you still wouldn't get a choice of race or origin.

[ejoslin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Morroian wrote...
The number of lines of dialogue is reportedly more than origins.

Voiced lines or lines in general?

If the game is fully voiced, is there any difference?

Well, yes, given what my question was.  DAO is not fully voiced -- the protagonist is silent.  So if you're saying the number of lines in DA2 is more than DAO, then of course the question is, voiced lines or all lines.  If you're comparing number of voiced lines in DAO to voiced lines in DA2, then there would be far fewer/much shorter conversations in DA2 than DAO.  If you're talking all lines of dialog, voiced and unvoiced, it's not that dramatic a lessening of conversations, but there would probably still be fewer/shorter conversations than there were in DAO as most lines were pretty much the same between males and females, with only a few differences.  In DA2, male and female Hawkes cannot share lines.

Edit: and given that DA2 has been described at being about half the length of DAO, my guess would be that there are fewer/shorter conversations.  We'll see, however.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 novembre 2010 - 01:07 .

[Atakuma]

Big Blue Car wrote...

There will never be another huge, Infinity Engine-esque RPG because people these days want voices for everyone. Even if the VA is bad and the writing worse, that will always take precedence over large, frequent, unvoiced quests with multiple conclusions.

It sucks. The sheer quantity of game that could be made if devs dropped the cinematic polish and just built a world is staggering, it makes me feel old that I'd prefer that to what we have today.

So you just want more content for the sake of more content?

[Atakuma]

ejoslin wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Morroian wrote...
The number of lines of dialogue is reportedly more than origins.

Voiced lines or lines in general?

If the game is fully voiced, is there any difference?

Well, yes, given what my question was.  DAO is not fully voiced -- the protagonist is silent.  So if you're saying the number of lines in DA2 is more than DAO, then of course the question is, voiced lines or all lines.  If you're comparing number of voiced lines in DAO to voiced lines in DA2, then there would be far fewer/much shorter conversations in DA2 than DAO.  If you're talking all lines of dialog, voiced and unvoiced, it's not that dramatic a lessening of conversations, but there would probably still be fewer/shorter conversations than there were in DAO as most lines were pretty much the same between males and females, with only a few differences.  In DA2, male and female Hawkes cannot share lines.

Edit: and given that DA2 has been described at being about half the length of DAO, my guess would be that there are fewer/shorter conversations.  We'll see, however.

It has been described as shorter and thats about as specific as it got.

[upsettingshorts]

ejoslin wrote...
 In DA2, male and female Hawkes cannot share lines.

I see what you mean about your original point, but here I think you're wrong.  MeerShep and HaleShep share lines, they do not however - obviously - have the same delivery, and the lines change when appropriate.  But in most cases they say precisely the same thing as one another.

Atakuma wrote...
It has been described as shorter and thats about as specific as it got.

Thought it was "longer than Awakenings, shorter than Origins."  Which could mean it's almost as long as Origins, or only slightly longer than Awakenings, or anywhere in between.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 novembre 2010 - 01:12 .

[Big Blue Car]

Atakuma wrote...

Big Blue Car wrote...

There will never be another huge, Infinity Engine-esque RPG because people these days want voices for everyone. Even if the VA is bad and the writing worse, that will always take precedence over large, frequent, unvoiced quests with multiple conclusions.

It sucks. The sheer quantity of game that could be made if devs dropped the cinematic polish and just built a world is staggering, it makes me feel old that I'd prefer that to what we have today.

So you just want more content for the sake of more content?

Yes? More content means more characters and a more in depth world. Personally I think both are desirable traits for an RPG.

[DPB]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: and given that DA2 has been described at being about half the length of DAO, my guess would be that there are fewer/shorter conversations.  We'll see, however.

Where? As far I know, they've only given very vague estimates, like shorter than DAO but longer than Awakening, which could mean almost anything.

[Ortaya Alevli]

ejoslin wrote...

Well, yes, given what my question was.  DAO is not fully voiced -- the protagonist is silent.  So if you're saying the number of lines in DA2 is more than DAO, then of course the question is, voiced lines or all lines.  If you're comparing number of voiced lines in DAO to voiced lines in DA2, then there would be far fewer/much shorter conversations in DA2 than DAO.  If you're talking all lines of dialog, voiced and unvoiced, it's not that dramatic a lessening of conversations, but there would probably still be fewer/shorter conversations than there were in DAO as most lines were pretty much the same between males and females, with only a few differences.  In DA2, male and female Hawkes cannot share lines.

Edit: and given that DA2 has been described at being about half the length of DAO, my guess would be that there are fewer/shorter conversations.  We'll see, however.

The entire script is longer than that of Origins.

[upsettingshorts]

Big Blue Car wrote...

Yes? More content means more characters and a more in depth world. Personally I think both are desirable traits for an RPG.

Ah, "depth" you say.  I say voices add depth.  Your move!

[Brockololly]

In DA2, you not only have voiced lines for Male and Female Hawke, but then Male Aggressive Hawke, Male Sarcastic Hawke, Male Diplomatic Hawke and Female Aggressive Hawke, Female Diplomatic Hawke, and Female Sarcastic Hawke- and everything in between.

Thats all voice over they didn't need to do in Origins. Now maybe they upped the budget for that, but it would seem something is going to be missing or lessened because of having to include all of that player VO- because beyond the literal VO work, you now have to toss in animations and cinematics for every player VO line, and thats another thing you didn't have to do as much in Origins.

So unless they got a big budget increase, I'm thinking the player VO and all of its side effects is going to eat into some other aspect of the game- whether thats the depth of the companions or the number of conversations or the amount of content in the game.

[ejoslin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
 In DA2, male and female Hawkes cannot share lines.

I see what you mean about your original point, but here I think you're wrong.  MeerShep and HaleShep share lines, they do not however - obviously - have the same delivery, and the lines change when appropriate.  But in most cases they say precisely the same thing as one another.

perhaps, but are they being counted as different or the same?  I would imagine different as femHawkes' VA gives five lines and maleHawke gives five lines, and even if they're identical, they just paid for 10 lines of VA.

while i don't think cinematic means better (it may work, it may not), having a voiced protagonist just takes a lot more resources than a silent one, where the payoff has got to be fewer/shorter conversations.  Now, maybe they'll be taking them away from obscure NPCs like were in DAO.  

[Apollo Starflare]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Big Blue Car wrote...

Yes? More content means more characters and a more in depth world. Personally I think both are desirable traits for an RPG.

Ah, "depth" you say.  I say voices add depth.  Your move!

Not to mention that 'content' can just mean more fetch quests and other mindless stuff. Some people love it, but I'll take a voiced protagonist (if done well) over that most days of the week.

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Thought it was "longer than Awakenings, shorter than Origins."  Which could mean it's almost as long as Origins, or only slightly longer than Awakenings, or anywhere in between.

Its also been described as being more like Mass Effect 2 in length back at Gamescom. Which to me, is about 30 hours or so, or roughly about half the time it took me to get through Origins. Bottom line is thats significantly shorter than Origins.

Apollo Starflare wrote...
Not
to mention that 'content' can just mean more fetch quests and other
mindless stuff. Some people love it, but I'll take a voiced protagonist
(if done well) over that most days of the week.

Or it could be something more significant like a whole other companion or a significant NPC like a Bann Teagan or Anora. Or maybe a companion turns into a Garrus "I've got calibrations" muppet a whole lot sooner after a couple conversations. Its just as likely you lose out on meaningful things as it is a fetch quest.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 novembre 2010 - 01:21 .