885 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

I think part of your issue is that Bioware can't actually figure out what "Paragon" or "Renegade" even means with any consistency. But that's another thread. Another forum, in fact.



/saving up a big post on that for ME3

[TJPags]

To me, a VA doing the PC character loses something. As in, you pay a VA to do the PC . . . that's money that could be spent on something else.

[Revan312]

Aaaand, now we're off into the same ole which VA is better thread.. we should try and talk about DA2 here guys.. Let's all stick to listing reasons why we do or do not want a voiced main character.. I'll start..

There are two main reasons I don't want, or I should say, am worried about a voiced protag, and that's one, that the actors won't be what I consider to be staying with the character's personality and two, that the game length is shortened so considerably because of the massive amount of space such an endeavor takes on game size.

Also, I know it's more immersive as a general rule, but at the same time it removes you from the character as well. I'm no longer able to put myself into the role, I'm now simply watching and choosing what a pre-established character is going to do, which ultimately, for me, lowers replayability a lot as once I've seen and heard the 3 outcomes of conversations there's nothing left to really do, imo.

Modifié par Revan312, 20 novembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[upsettingshorts]

I'd be happy with them taking money out of a lot of things if it means a fully voiced (protagonist included) game.
My ideals are no voices at all (BG-like) or fully voiced (ME-like). The inbetween stuff kills it for me. Just ruins my immersion utterly.

Revan312 wrote...
Also, I know it's more immersive as a general rule, but at the same time it removes you from the character as well. I'm no longer able to put myself into the role, I'm now simply watching and choosing what a pre-established character is going to do, which ultimately, for me, lowers replayability a lot as once I've seen and heard the 3 outcomes of conversations there's nothing left to really do, imo.

For me, CRPGs were never capable of doing what you describe and were always about watching and choosing what a pre-established character was going to do.  All of the dialogue, responses, and consequences already exist whether I know them or not.  Therefore to me a voice is just that, a voice.  It is a way of delivering the line, and where I run in to problems with a game is when there is an inconsistency between how the PC communicates and how everyone else does.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 novembre 2010 - 05:56 .

[Jshay512]

Ok i read all the posts so far. I have to say I think that voice actors can be good or bad depending on who it is the actor. The best thing to do is make it so you can have the pc voice actor talk or not talk.



I have to say though as I said before I would find it weird with the same actor if i try to change how my person looks and acts. If i want my guy to have a really deep voice yet the VA has a high pitched voice it would through off my RP experience.



It seems that a lot of people agree with me. That is not to say I don't trust bioware and they can sure make a great game so i bet the game will be good no matter or the VA is. I am going to preorder the game no matter what because i want the SE.

[upsettingshorts]

Jshay512 wrote...
It seems that a lot of people agree with me. That is not to say I don't trust bioware and they can sure make a great game so i bet the game will be good no matter or the VA is. I am going to preorder the game no matter what because i want the SE.

Keep in mind that the popularity (or relative unpopularity) of a particular feature or approach on these forums is not necessarily representative of the gaming public, or even Bioware's fanbase at large. 

Think of these boards as just one narrow, unpaid focus group.  Bioware may - and likely does - take note of what we say, but I would hardly call consensus on the forums unassailable public desire for change (or against change).  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Herr Uhl]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'd be happy with them taking money out of a lot of things if it means a fully voiced (protagonist included) game.
My ideals are no voices at all (BG-like) or fully voiced (ME-like). The inbetween stuff kills it for me. Just ruins my immersion utterly.

BG had voices.

[upsettingshorts]

Herr Uhl wrote...
BG had voices.

A line here and there (which served to give me an idea of what they ought to sound like in my head as I was reading their lines), but not fully voiced, unless I'm completely misremembering.  Granted, I last touched the game a decade ago.

In any case, my point was that if every character is fully voiced, and my protagonist is a mute - it kills my immersion.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:02 .

[Herr Uhl]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
BG had voices.

A line here and there, but not fully voiced, unless I'm completely misremembering.  Granted, I last touched the game a decade ago.

In any case, my point was that if every character is fully voiced, and my protagonist is a mute - it kills my immersion.

Oh, that was what you meant. I thought you meant that it destroyed it for you when there was only parts that had VO, like in BG.

[TJPags]

Meh, I have my own voice . . . .that's plenty of immersion for me, voicing the line in my head.

[Russalka]

TJPags wrote...

Meh, I have my own voice . . . .that's plenty of immersion for me, voicing the line in my head.

What happens if you play the opposite sex?

[upsettingshorts]

TJPags wrote...

Meh, I have my own voice . . . .that's plenty of immersion for me, voicing the line in my head.

It's not the same for me.

Hearing a line in my head is one way of "hearing "a line.  If I'm reading a book, or playing a text-based game, I'm "hearing" all of the lines in my head.

Hearing a line with my ears is another way of hearing a line.  If I'm watching a movie, or playing a VO-game, I'm hearing all of the lines with my ears.

In a game with a silent protagonist that is otherwise fully voiced, it is like watching a movie in which one character does not speak, and when the time comes for him or her to say someting, I have to look down at a book that's in my lap and read the line to myself.  It's not a precise 1:1 comparison, obviously, but that's how it feels to my brain.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:07 .

[In Exile]

TJPags wrote...

Meh, I have my own voice . . . .that's plenty of immersion for me, voicing the line in my head.

How do you do this? I don't mean this sarcasically, btw, I just don't read with tone. How do you "hear" a voice for a character that's different from the omnipresent narrator voice (which is how all my reading is).

[Revan312]

Upsettingshorts wrote...



For me, CRPGs were never capable of doing what you describe and were always about watching and choosing what a pre-established character was going to do. All of the dialogue, responses, and consequences already exist whether I know them or not. Therefore to me a voice is just that, a voice. It is a way of delivering the line, and where I run in to problems with a game is when there is an inconsistency between how the PC communicates and how everyone else does.

Well I understand that they are established already, to a degree, but it's still easier to roleplay on a character without a set voice. Inflection, tone, pauses, breaks, enunciation, timber, rises and lulls all establish the perception of a personality without me, the player, being able to imagine anything on the part of the character I'm playing. Alistair would be a much different character if Valentine didn't do his voice or if Claudia Black hadn't of voiced Morrigan.



It's hard for me to explain gut feelings and perceptions, but I just can't connect to the main character in a roleplaying sense if they're voiced, it's not my character anymore within the confines of the game world, he/she is their own personality and person without any imagination on my part which turns me off a bit for an RPG.. I won't say it can't be done well, and if the VA's for Hawke are excellent imo, then I might enjoy it a heck of a lot, but regardless, it won't be my character anymore, but a fully realized protagonist..

[TJPags]

Russalka wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Meh, I have my own voice . . . .that's plenty of immersion for me, voicing the line in my head.

What happens if you play the opposite sex?

Personally, I don't, unless the game forces me to by only having a female PC.

But if that were the case, I can easily imagine a female voice of someone I know or some actress.

In Exile wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Meh, I have my own voice . . . .that's plenty of immersion for me, voicing the line in my head.

How do you do this? I don't mean this sarcasically, btw, I just don't read with tone. How do you "hear" a voice for a character that's different from the omnipresent narrator voice (which is how all my reading is).

I'm not sure, really.  I guess I've always done that - I read a book with tone whenever there's dialogue.  Each character in a book has his own "voice" in my head.  With a game, as I'm playing the PC, I basically 'speak' the line in my head, with the tone I choose, which makes sense to me, since that PC is supposed to BE me.  Hearing a different voice is odd to me.  <shrug>

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Meh, I have my own voice . . . .that's plenty of immersion for me, voicing the line in my head.

It's not the same for me.

Hearing a line in my head is one way of "hearing "a line.  If I'm reading a book, or playing a text-based game, I'm "hearing" all of the lines in my head.

Hearing a line with my ears is another way of hearing a line.  If I'm watching a movie, or playing a VO-game, I'm hearing all of the lines with my ears.

In a game with a silent protagonist that is otherwise fully voiced, it is like watching a movie in which one character does not speak, and when the time comes for him or her to say someting, I have to look down at a book that's in my lap and read the line to myself.  It's not a precise 1:1 comparison, obviously, but that's how it feels to my brain.

That's fair, I suppose - this is personal preference, after all - but what if you really don't like the chosen VA?  As an example - not a perfect one, but an example - many people, when the LotR movies came out, REALLY disliked certain acting choices, because they didn't fit with the way they imagined the characters.

IMO, a voiced PC: 1) takes away from the "me-ness" of the character, 2) is one more potential thing not to like about a game, and 3) costs money that perhaps could have been better spent on some other aspect of the game - another quest, more armor, better scenery, etc.

Now, I may love the voice acting in DA2 - won't know until I hear it.  But it remains a concern.

Modifié par TJPags, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:16 .

[In Exile]

Revan312 wrote...
Well I understand that they are established already, to a degree, but it's still easier to roleplay on a character without a set voice. Inflection, tone, pauses, breaks, enunciation, timber, rises and lulls all establish the perception of a personality without me, the player, being able to imagine anything on the part of the character I'm playing. Alistair would be a much different character if Valentine didn't do his voice or if Claudia Black hadn't of voiced Morrigan.

See, for me it's the opposite. When I read, there is no "inflection, tone, puases, breaks, enunciation, timber, rises, lulls," etc. that are different from my omnipresent narrator voice.

So my KoTOR PC, like my DA:O PC, and my JE PC, sounds like I do when I read my grocery list. Not to mention that with the very short lines we have in these games, getting any kind of tone seems very difficult to me.

So without variable VO, the character is not even a character.

[upsettingshorts]

If I play a female PC my internal voice is me delivering falsetto. It's actually kind of hilarious to think about. I'm also not sure if that's cause for embarrassment or not. How I read voices is my own damn business thank you very much!

Actually all my internal voices are me doing an impression of whatever I think they sound like, so at least it's consistent!

/mumbles something about mentioning this to his shrink

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Dave of Canada]

Many times in Origins I'd read a line, choose it and the character would take it completely differently because the way I read the line isn't the same as the intention of the writers. Voiced or no, we're limited by what the writers give us. At least with this wheel and voiced system, we're able to get the intention of the line and can choose it instead of being surprised why what I thought was a hateful comment would be a joke or what I thought was me being nice was sarcastic and insulting.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:17 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

In Exile wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Meh, I have my own voice . . . .that's plenty of immersion for me, voicing the line in my head.

How do you do this?

Reading it Mark Meer style.

Russalka wrote...

What happens if you play the opposite sex?

Gotta laugh at that one.

[TJPags]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Many times in Origins I'd read a line, choose it and the character would take it completely differently because the way I read the line isn't the same as the intention of the writers. Voiced or no, we're limited by what the writers give us. At least with this wheel and voiced system, we're able to get the intention of the line and can choose it instead of being surprised why what I thought was a hateful comment would be a joke or what I thought was me being nice was sarcastic and insulting.

Ever say something to someone as a joke, and they misinterpret it?  Or have the same happen in an email or a text?

I see those in-game situations you describe the same way.

[Teknor]

Voices are worth it.

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, but in real life or an email you can be like, "I was kidding dude."

[Revan312]

In Exile wrote...

See, for me it's the opposite. When I read, there is no "inflection, tone, puases, breaks, enunciation, timber, rises, lulls," etc. that are different from my omnipresent narrator voice.

So my KoTOR PC, like my DA:O PC, and my JE PC, sounds like I do when I read my grocery list. Not to mention that with the very short lines we have in these games, getting any kind of tone seems very difficult to me.

So without variable VO, the character is not even a character.

It's difficult to actively change a voice in your head to sound like someone else, or a set character you've created, but I can do it when I want to, such as with DA:O.  I simply imagine other individuals I've spoken to or heard and emulate their voice in my mind, in a way.  It's not like hearing the voice, but it allows me to create a character for the purposes of an RPG..

Again, this is just me, I can't speak for anyone else and I've been told I daydream a lot.  I play out tons of things in my head, all the way to full blown movies I've just made up on the fly, so maybe I'm an anomaly and should just accept that for most, a voiced protag is more immersive

[Jshay512]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Jshay512 wrote...
It seems that a lot of people agree with me. That is not to say I don't trust bioware and they can sure make a great game so i bet the game will be good no matter or the VA is. I am going to preorder the game no matter what because i want the SE.

Keep in mind that the popularity (or relative unpopularity) of a particular feature or approach on these forums is not necessarily representative of the gaming public, or even Bioware's fanbase at large. 

Think of these boards as just one narrow, unpaid focus group.  Bioware may - and likely does - take note of what we say, but I would hardly call consensus on the forums unassailable public desire for change (or against change).  

I know man. I doubt it would be that hard though to make it so you can turn off the voice actor's voice and keep everyone else. I don't know for sure though because i am not a programmer.

[TJPags]

Jshay512 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Jshay512 wrote...
It seems that a lot of people agree with me. That is not to say I don't trust bioware and they can sure make a great game so i bet the game will be good no matter or the VA is. I am going to preorder the game no matter what because i want the SE.

Keep in mind that the popularity (or relative unpopularity) of a particular feature or approach on these forums is not necessarily representative of the gaming public, or even Bioware's fanbase at large. 

Think of these boards as just one narrow, unpaid focus group.  Bioware may - and likely does - take note of what we say, but I would hardly call consensus on the forums unassailable public desire for change (or against change).  

I know man. I doubt it would be that hard though to make it so you can turn off the voice actor's voice and keep everyone else. I don't know for sure though because i am not a programmer.

See, the thing with turning off the PC's voice - or any other voices - is that the company spent money on that . . . which is a waste if everyone turns it off, no?