62 réponses à ce sujet

[ok go]

rogues do it from behind and both Leliana and Zevran do it from behind

[ejoslin]

The Water God wrote...


Well I never said they weren't lovers. And i know what your talking, about but what he says doesn't exactly say "Hey Tasilesen I luv you!". Plus he helped me kill Tasilesen in my game. But yeah I can see  how they could like each other.

Its just that you're wrong in saying Tasilesen is Marjolaine. Rinna is more of Zevrans lover in the background.

Now back on topic:

I actually Leliana's and Zevran's story have ended up having so much in common because like others have said they're both rouges. And rouges are criminals and assassins alot of the time, thus they would have more in common with one another than they would with any of the other companions. And would also be the reason for alot of the plot similarites.

I really like how Bioware treated the rouge storys, their really the most detailed out the other characters backgrounds.

No, Rinna is not!  I compare Taliesen and Marjolaine for reasons that you obviously are not getting. He doesn't say, "hey Rinna, I luv you" either.  Gah, Taliesen travels to Ferelden to try to save Zevran.  Taliesen is far more a partner to Zevran than Rinna was.   

I would say neither Rinna nor Taliesen are like Marjolaine.  I think Taliesen was far more important in Zevran's world than Rinna was, who struck me as rather new to him.

Here's one conversation for you as you have not seen this.  VO notes are in parens...

Zevran: Taliesen is dead, I assume. He must be, or you would not have returned. Then it is true... I am free of the Crows. (grim -- Taliesen was once a friend of his)
Zevran: They will assume that I am dead along with Taliesen. So long as I do not make my presence known to them, they will not seek me out. (grim)
Warden: You should have stayed and fought.
Zevran: Believe it or not, despite my feelings about the Crows in general I had no argument with Taliesen in specific. (grim -- he regrets killing Taliesen)
Zevran: He was a good friend whose only fault lie in his priorities. I had no wish to fight him, and truly I would have preferred he not come after us at all. But what is done is done. (grim, regretful)
Warden: A good friend, was he?
Zevran: He was. And more. But there is no need to relive the past. That is all behind me, now. (grim, "and more" meaning he was once Zevran's lover)

This is the man who told Zevran that Rinna had to die, and slit her throat while Zevran watched on and spit on her and laughed at her.  Taliesen is Rinna's murderer.  And this is what Zevran says when he dies.

Marjolaine was a huge influence on Leliana.  Taliesen was such a huge influence that he was able to kill the woman Zevran thought he loved with Zevran bearing him no ill will at ALL.

How much bigger an influence can you be on someone than that?  the whole incident with Rinna broke Zevran -- not just her murder, but all of it.  

Edit; If you are seriously saying Rinna is to Zevran (someone he was infatuated with, but probably hadn't known long, had nothing to do with him being in the crows) as Marjolaine is to Leliana (the very reason Leliana became a bard, the person who lel loved whole heartedly and was with for years), then you are really are just looking for similarities and skipping over the major differences.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:50 .

[Giggles_Manically]

The Water God wrote...

ok go wrote...

rogues do it from behind and both Leliana and Zevran do it from behind

your just trolling right?

<snarky renegade voice>Your grasp of the obvious is inspiring.

I love that UNC mission.

[EccentricSage]

The Water God wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


Edit; If you are seriously saying Rinna is to Zevran (someone he was infatuated with, but probably hadn't known long, had nothing to do with him being in the crows) as Marjolaine is to Leliana (the very reason Leliana became a bard, the person who lel loved whole heartedly and was with for years), then you are really are just looking for similarities and skipping over the major differences.

I know there are major diffenrence between the two. I just think what they have in common could help them understand the other, as opposed to other companions. A better way to say this is to say they would be a good match for one another maybe? (romance wise)

They both come from roughed up backgrounds, and thus they could easily understand the other. They have alot of heartbreak in their past.

I find the juxtoposition of these seemingly simular characters facinating as well.  But I do not think they would be a good couple.  I could see Zevran and hardened Lelliana having a fling, but I just don't see their perspective on their work and on the world as compatable enough for something deaper.  Zevran would not even agree that they are alike untill he got Lelliana to agree that the mark deserves a clean death.  He seemed to have suspicions reguarding her, and I must say, it seemed suspicious to me that he had to lead her.  Likewise, he enjoys the kill, where as she insists she does not, despite the fact that she was the one who chose to kill for a living of her own free will.  I just can't see them seeing eye to eye unless Lelliana were to shape herself to his desires, which she may be capable of doing, but I think Zevran would see through that.  He seems to see through most facades.

Likewise, Lelliana's rough background was her own doing, Zevran's was not.  Lel had a lot going for her before she started shaping herself into what Marjolain wanted, including a life of luxury.  Zevran had everything in his life against him, but somehow managed to find himself, and still have a heart and kindness in him despite everything he was put through since early child hood all the way through his life as a Crow.  Likewise, Zevran is an Elf, and while he usually does not let that dictate his place in the world, or how he feels about others, it's still a part of him a human has trouble truly understanding.  He knows the opression of his people first hand.  Lelliana on the other hand has a privilaged view of the world, and demonstrates in dialogue that while she may not harbor any ill will towards elves, she does not understand them and what they go through at all.  So I really don't think the sympathy angle works for them at all.


PS. On the subject of weather or not Zevran was in love with Rinna, I think 'she was everything I thought I desired' or however it was worded is not exactly a declairation of love.  It is Rinna who said she loved HIM, while she begged for her life.  It could have just as easily been manipulation on her part.  Likewise, it is the Warden who has the option of assuming Zevran loved her.  Zevran only said he was afraid of the way she made him feel, that she stirred something in his heart.  Could that have grown into love, if it had been permitted?  Yes.  Was it love yet?  It could at most have been the first base emotional impulse that some mistakenly call love.  But none of the depth nor comitment of real love.  There seemed to be more depth and comitment between Zevran and Taliesen than Zevran and Rinna.  The fact he bares no ill will towards Taliesen for killing Rinna shows where his loyalties and priorities lay, no matter how bad he felt for Rinna's unjust death. 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I think a Shale/Sten romance has alot of potential. Both are big warrior types who hold humans, and especially mages, in contempt. They hate small things. And Sten can end up calling her Kadan long before he does the Warden. Plus, Shale is made of stone, she would have no problems with Qunari sexytime. No need to hit Sten with red hot pokers if he nuzzles.



Oghren and Wynne should hook up, too. They both like beer, and Wynne could use getting the ol' cobwebs knocked off. And lucky for her, Oghren is less than picky about anything in his bedroll.



Alistair and Morrigan should hook up as well, I rather like the contrasts between them. They can have lots of fun hate sex and moan and belittle each other by day. But I think they actually look the cutest together.



I suppose Leliana and Zevrqan could have an extremely open and casual relationship, as they are probably the two least likely to be offended by such an arrangement.



That really only leaves...ugh....Loghain and Dog?

[Ryzaki]

O_o



Loghain and Dog? I don't even like the man and I wouldn't wish that on him.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Ryzaki wrote...

O_o

Loghain and Dog? I don't even like the man and I wouldn't wish that on him.

A much happier pairing than say, Loghain and Wynne. Even if I hated Loghain, I wouldn't wish HER on him. Hell, I wouldn't wish her on Howe, for that matter.

[ejoslin]

The Water God wrote...

I guess they could have more of a casual relationship. Zevran seems to be into Leliana physically, as well harden Leliana also would pefer a fling with him rather than a full on relationship. I enjoy the their post sex banter they have after the foursome:

Zevran: "I don't care if we never talk about again. Just as long as we get to do it again."
Leliana: (Smiles) "Thats a thought."

Its clear Leliana enjoys sex (which is why I like her) But she perfers it be someone she loves. (Which also why i like her.)

The main point I see is that they ceartinly don't dislike one another despite their conflicting views on the world.

Something I would like to point out (This thing I noticed):
I would like to point out that Leliana and Zevran ceartinly seem to have some things in common with the way the romance works. Other than being both bisexuals, they both have the posibility of becoming the wardens secret lover should they marry the new ruler, and they will follow the warden no matter what they choose to do if they are both in love. (and lets not forget the awaking letter that comes from both lovers.)

Meanwhile Alistair and Morrgians romance both have a unique requirement. Morrigan requires the warden to  the warden to follow her through a portal to maker knows where. And Alistair makes the warden either break up or convince him to stay on as a lover. But no matter what he can't stop from becoming the new ruler of Fereldan. Both of them require a "Never see me again" or a "Give up your whole normal life to be with me".

Is it just me or does it seem like Bioware made the Hetro romances have their own unique endings and the bisexual romances have almost identical romantic ending choices. Morri and Alistair seem to have their own formula on how their romance is suppoused to play out (despite that their romance grows in different ways) They seem to have a more plot oreinted romance, that you actually have to do more than just get their approval really high. Meanwhile Leliana and Zevran will just love the warden and follow them wherever they go. 

Though the two sets borrow different traits from on another, but in the end they seem to be two completely different sets of romances. Both have a love romance and an easy romance when you look at it, but always have a similar endings. Clearly intentional by the devs.

Alistair does not have to become king. Just choose Anora as solo queen. Provided you kill Loghain, Alistair even stays in the gray wardens and the romance goes on.

so you have three romances where you can end up with adultery going on (Leliana, Zevran, and Alistair). You have three where the love interest ends up following the lover (same three). Yes, even King Alistair follows the warden.

I still think Alistair's and Leliana's romances have WAY more in common.

Edit; And i don't think anyone has said anything about Leliana and Zevran not finding each other attractive.  the only time they act on it, however, is at the warden's request.

second edit: And leliana, hardened or not, wants a full on relationship. she won't have sex with the warden until she's in love either way.  

There is a lot more going on with these characters than you seem to see.  they're all very complex, with interesting back stories.  they're also not simple to categorize.  

Another edit; funny thing about both Leliana and Alistair -- you need to harden them to get them to accept that more casual sex is ok.  Leliana will dump the warden if she's not hardened, after all, if the warden is getting married, much like Alistair will dump the warden, if he's not hardened, if he's made king and not marrying the player.

Zevran, on the other hand, the only thing he does require is a commitment.  once he falls in love, he won't touch the warden until he gets a promise for the future.  If you try to get out of doing so, he dumps the warden. 

i suppose what i'm saying is for zevran, sex becomes an expression of love.  for hardened Alistair or hardened Leliana, maybe not quite as much any more.  All three are faithful though.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 novembre 2010 - 05:49 .