108 réponses à ce sujet

[konfeta]

Do the critics care that you can finish DA:O on Nightmare without ever pausing on a variety of party compositions?

[upsettingshorts]

konfeta wrote...

Do the critics care that you can finish DA:O on Nightmare without ever pausing on a variety of party compositions?

When this is pointed out to them they dispute technicalities like, "Yeah but kiting looked way easy in that one video."  Ignoring the part of how in that demo - despite the difficulty being locked on Easy - the hack & slash player got most of his team killed while he was "easily" kiting away.

Ultimately though it just turns into a discussion about why the critics just don't like the animations.  And that's fine, they're gonna be subject to aesthetic preference.

[ENolan]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

konfeta wrote...
Who wants to bet money that despite this (and tens of other similar posts by Bioware devs) we will see a thread pop up in a couple of weeks wailing against DAII for becoming a hack'n'slash, action, etc. game rather than a "true RPG?"

Oh the critics have already moved on from "you won't be able to pause because it's a hack and slash game" to "you won't need to pause because you'll be able to play it like a hack and slash game."

I imagine this will persist until the game actually releases.  Then it will change to something else.

It always does, doesn't it? I'm thinking the old phrase "you can't please everybody" can now legally be changed to "you can keep someone pleased a little while until they switch interests. Then you're screwed"

Long phrase change, I know, but there was no other way to put it.

[crimzontearz]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

 Not sure if there is a thread up of this.
I've seen a gameplay video and instead of assigning squaddies to attack certain enemies, you just play it like Diablo or Vindictus. How is this going to work? Will there still be a pause and assign feature?

Why do people think it looks like diablo? IMO it bears almost no resemblance at all. I'm 99.9% sure you can still pause. I have no idea what vindictus is like. 

The fact you can pause and issue commands means that it is a strategy game rather than an action game. Bioware need to be careful that they leave in enough strategical depth, so long as they do I encourage comabt being sped up. I am a little concerned it might end up like party based Fable with pause, that wouldn't work as a game as it would lack depth.

DA2 supports pause'n'play to allow you to carefully consider your positioning, basic attacks, and ability use for all your party members. On the PC, it plays much like Origins, though with faster, more expressive, less hesitant movement and animations, and better hit presentation. On the console, we've made it easier to play tactically by improving the radial menu (for example, it no longer automatically closes after issuing a command) and adding the ability to give move-to-point orders to your party members.

DEAR GOD thank you

[Seb Hanlon]

ptibog wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...
On the PC, it plays much like Origins, though with faster, more expressive, less hesitant movement and animations, and better hit presentation.

i must agree with this, the flamenco dancing rogues are far more expressive.


seriously, are the animation WIP? It looks like someone randomly removed keyframes in two-handed sword animations to shorten them.  <_<

Anything you see pre-release can be considered WIP; additionally, I'd be very careful about drawing conclusions from shaky bootleg footage of prerelease demos. When you shoot video of a video source, there's a phenomenon called "aliasing" that occurs in both the spatial and temporal domains that can significantly degrade the reproduction quality.

[ptibog]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

additionally, I'd be very careful about drawing conclusions from shaky bootleg footage of prerelease demos.

Is the new bioware's "buy before seeing any gameplay if you want to have the full game" policy is more safe?

[nightcobra]

ptibog wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

additionally, I'd be very careful about drawing conclusions from shaky bootleg footage of prerelease demos.

Is the new bioware's "buy before seeing any gameplay if you want to have the full game" policy is more safe?

i didn't know march 11th was already tomorrow, boy time sure does fly

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 21 novembre 2010 - 11:39 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

On the console, we've made it easier to play tactically by improving the radial menu (for example, it no longer automatically closes after issuing a command) and adding the ability to give move-to-point orders to your party members.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.


Did I say " thank you"? I think I did, just incase I forgot.

Thank you!

I'm not sure Dave said what needs to be said to be honest so here goes: THANK YOU!

Seriously, those two things will go a long way to improving combat on the console version. Now if we could just get that tactical camera the PC version has (however changed it might be).

[Grand_Commander13]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Anything you see pre-release can be considered WIP; additionally, I'd be very careful about drawing conclusions from shaky bootleg footage of prerelease demos. When you shoot video of a video source, there's a phenomenon called "aliasing" that occurs in both the spatial and temporal domains that can significantly degrade the reproduction quality.

Has anyone around the office given any indication when they hope to put official gameplay videos out?  There are some haters I'd quite like to say "I told you so" to, but I need to know how long I'll have to wait to gloat.

[Brockololly]

I now blame the ailments of the world and any of DA2 's shortcomings on the infernal beast that is "aliasing."

[lv12medic]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

When you shoot video of a video source, there's a phenomenon called "aliasing" that occurs in both the spatial and temporal domains that can significantly degrade the reproduction quality.

Mmmmm... I love me some error propagation.  Om nom nom nom.

[Apollo Starflare]

The weird thing is... Why presume that Bioware are moving away from pause and play combat when they have made an effort to improve it on consoles (the system where it was least necessary in Origins)? It would make more sense for them to move consoles away from the radial menu even further if that was their aim. The whole 'hack n slash' argument just doesn't compute with me.

[upsettingshorts]

Any effort expended on consoles is an insult to the purity of the PC gaming race.

[Brockololly]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

The weird thing is... Why presume that Bioware are moving away from pause and play combat when they have made an effort to improve it on consoles (the system where it was least necessary in Origins)? It would make more sense for them to move consoles away from the radial menu even further if that was their aim. The whole 'hack n slash' argument just doesn't compute with me.

Because they're severely scaling back the tactical cam on the PC, where pause and play worked fine? Because every single marketing interview has them emphasizing how you can "get right in the action and fight like a Spartan with visceral combat"? Because a while back you had Laidlaw saying "the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders," but now it would seem as if "Tactical Camera 2.0" is simply the view we already had in Origins when you used the mouse wheel to zoom out a little bit, not any new free roaming? The whole "press button something awesome happens" shtick?

Show some PC gameplay and we can hopefully have this all cleared up^_^

[Ziggeh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Any effort expended on consoles is an insult to the purity of the PC gaming race.

If they weren't wasting time making sure the game actually works on all the platforms on which it's being released they could add more voice over dialogue.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 21 novembre 2010 - 11:49 .

[Atakuma]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Any effort expended on consoles is an insult to the purity of the PC gaming race.

If they weren't wasting time making sure the game actually works on all the platforms on which it's being released they could add more voice over dialogue.

Voice over isn't worth it. They should add more fetch quests.

[Ziggeh]

Atakuma wrote...
Voice over isn't worth it. They should add more fetch quests.

A poultice hand in mini game.

Brockololly wrote...
Show some PC gameplay and we can hopefully have this all cleared up[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

Thing of it is, all it would truly clear up is some of the assumptions of some people who post on their forum. The number of people who will refuse to buy a game they might enjoy based on whether or not  they've seen combat footage between now and january 11th is probably incredibly small.

So, leaving aside the marketing potential, which I can't pretend to understand, not having a firm grasp of the market and all; The effect it would have would be to move the complaining from one area to another, because they're clearly aware that some of thoes people will complain no matter what they were to do. Nature of forums. That's probably not something they would be overly excited to achieve.

It would certainly be nice of them, as is posting here generally, but I suspect a video would involve more effort. Or maybe not, I've been left with the impression that they are all in command of a good deal of restraint.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:03 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Brockololly wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

The weird thing is... Why presume that Bioware are moving away from pause and play combat when they have made an effort to improve it on consoles (the system where it was least necessary in Origins)? It would make more sense for them to move consoles away from the radial menu even further if that was their aim. The whole 'hack n slash' argument just doesn't compute with me.

Because they're severely scaling back the tactical cam on the PC, where pause and play worked fine? Because every single marketing interview has them emphasizing how you can "get right in the action and fight like a Spartan with visceral combat"? Because a while back you had Laidlaw saying "the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders," but now it would seem as if "Tactical Camera 2.0" is simply the view we already had in Origins when you used the mouse wheel to zoom out a little bit, not any new free roaming? The whole "press button something awesome happens" shtick?

Show some PC gameplay and we can hopefully have this all cleared up^_^

Bit... PC orientated there. Now I'd love for them to have a detachable camera, it's one of the few gripes I do have with what we've heard so far. But does it equate to the game requiring less pause and play? Not really, no. It just means they are fiddling with the way in which pause and play combat works. for 'Get right in the action and fight like a Spartan with visceral combat'/hack n slash gameplay they wouldn't have even included the tac cam they have included. They are designing the game to use pause and play.

Talking of that marketing slogan, every time it comes up someone responds by pointing out the Origins marketing being almost identical. Yet folks keep throwing out the Hot rodded Spartan press a button Fablo 'shtick' anyway. 'tis non-sensical. Especially when devs have come on here and said that pause and play tactical combat is very much still part of the fabric of DA2 and that it is just marketing and bigging up one aspect of the game beyond all boundries. Yet everyone focuses on the marketing and not the devs who post on here?

[Maverick827]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Anything you see pre-release can be considered WIP; additionally, I'd be very careful about drawing conclusions from shaky bootleg footage of prerelease demos. When you shoot video of a video source, there's a phenomenon called "aliasing" that occurs in both the spatial and temporal domains that can significantly degrade the reproduction quality.

And if you go one level deeper, with a video of a video of a video, you end up in limbo.

[Brockololly]

Apollo Starflare wrote...
Bit... PC orientated there. Now I'd love for them to have a detachable camera, it's one of the few gripes I do have with what we've heard so far. But does it equate to the game requiring less pause and play? Not really, no.

Its a fact that the PC version of Origins was balanced differently than the console version in part because of the Tactical camera and the hardware capabilities of the PC allowing more enemies on screen at once. Its the reason why friendly fire is on in the default difficulty in Origin for PC but not on the consoles.

I don't know that DA2 will require less pause and play, but I've yet to see anything on the PC side of things where they're adding a feature to what the PC version had that isn't simply a side effect of them changing things on the consoles.

Apollo Starflare wrote...
Talking of that marketing slogan, every time it comes up someone responds by pointing out the Origins marketing being almost identical. Yet folks keep throwing out the Hot rodded Spartan press a button Fablo 'shtick' anyway. 'tis non-sensical.

Right- but by the time BioWare felt the need for Marilyn Manson sex and violence, prepubescent boy, XTREME! marketing for Origins, they had already shown a good amount of actual gameplay to show that the actual game wasn't some hyped up 300/God of War wannabe. I doubt DA2 will be quite like that either, but they're not doing themselves any favors by not showing anything to show how it is just DAO but better. I've followed games long enough to know that things change in game development- so just because a dev is saying one thing doesn't mean it will end up like that in the game. They can say there will be in depth tactical combat, but I'll believe it when I can see it.

Show, don't tell.

[Dave of Canada]

Brockololly wrote...

Because every single marketing interview has them emphasizing how you can "get right in the action and fight like a Spartan with visceral combat"?

Oh yes, because Dragon Age's combat advertisement was a thousand times superior.

"Engage in Bone-Crushing, Visceral Combat"

It's almost like if everybody during Origins developement complained about the game sounding like a hack&slash.

Oh wait, that's exactly what happened.

[tmp7704]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Oh yes, because Dragon Age's combat advertisement was a thousand times superior.

It was the new ****.

[DPB]

Post-Violence trailer, I remember talking with someone on the old forums who was adamant that Bioware had thrown all their work away from the previous 5 years and remade DAO into a hack and slash action game.

[Atakuma]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Because every single marketing interview has them emphasizing how you can "get right in the action and fight like a Spartan with visceral combat"?

Oh yes, because Dragon Age's combat advertisement was a thousand times superior.

"Engage in Bone-Crushing, Visceral Combat"

It's almost like if everybody during Origins developement complained about the game sounding like a hack&slash.

Oh wait, that's exactly what happened.

Why are you talking about the old s**t? This is the new s**t dammit!

[thegreateski]

"The new s**t"



Poor Bioware will never live it down.