110 réponses à ce sujet

[Maestro975]

RageGT wrote...

I didn't know that there were words to describe what I tried to say in my previous post but those are exacly it: Paragade / Renegon

I'd consider a 100% Paragon Shepard as a total loser with no self respect and serious self esteem issues. Really, bow to "Lord" Darius? On the other hand, a 100% Renegade Shepard is a total psychopath! Please note that when I say say 100% it really means 100%. No room for a mix, not even once.

But that's not human nature. How many of us would help a person in need, like a blind man crossing a high traffic road (could think of a thousand more elaborate examples but this is so basic!) and then give the finger to some driver that cut us off in the same road? And then perhaps even stop to help that same driver if he had a small accident further ahead, or perhaps passing by him laughing our asses off! *eg*

Well, if I was confronting someone who was out to ruin me personally or professionally, and all the sudden he has a heart attack, I'd probably let him die, the reasoning being that this is Mother Nature's way of solving my problem for me.

"Rage can be a helluva an anesthetic."

[halogod1986]

I've always had a hard time running through an RPG (especially a Bioware one) on the lower path. I tried a sith in KOTOR and promptly shut it down after I let an innocent man fall victim to a rach ghoul. Renegade options shouldn't necessarily parallel evil options. They often do, but I don't think that was the original intent. If I could be a renegade in the same way that Saren was, I might be able to motivate myself to look at the utilitarian good rather than just feeling like a jerk.

[Maestro975]

gashgfjaskgfkagh wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

As much as I say I'm a renegade.... I never play a "full" renegade. While I do have the renegade bar full by the end of both games (or pretty damn close) I always have a couple paragon bars as well. B/c imo, playing completely once-sided is pretty damn stupid. One extreme or the other isn't realistic or logical at all.

My renegade Shepard's are about getting the job done, no matter the cost. Like he/she did at Torfan. So when I'm trying to get information or need something, yeah my Shepard will be a hardened badass who shoves his/her boot up someone's ass. However, when it makes more sense to be nicer to someone to get what you want, that's what my Shepard will do.... it's all about getting the job done.

It's all in how you RP your character.

If you wanna be a kiss-ass character who bows down to everyone just b/c you don't want to ruffle a few feathers now and again. It's all your choice. lol

^This

I never played a Paragon playthrough since I can't stand some choices since they look like some Starfleet fantasy for me, not even one "good" choice in Mass Effect bites you in the ass, no matter how stupid it is. <_<

*cough*Rana Thanoptis*cough*. And Star Trek is not devoid of Renegades, it's just that most of them work for Section 31 (clearly an inspiration for Cerberus). Sisko certainly had his share of Renegade moments.

[Xilizhra]

But that's not human nature. How many of us would help a person in need, like a blind man crossing a high traffic road (could think of a thousand more elaborate examples but this is so basic!) and then give the finger to some driver that cut us off in the same road? And then perhaps even stop to help that same driver if he had a small accident further ahead, or perhaps passing by him laughing our asses off! *eg*

Well, that's why we're not saving the galaxy.

[Zubie]

gashgfjaskgfkagh wrote...

Of course since Bioware favors Paragons over Renegades its not suprising. <_<

well duh....the evil, bad side or whatever you want to call it is usually just there for ****s n' giggles....

You play it during your second playthrough until you're tired of slaughtering innocents and the cheesy one liners.

[oneyedjohn]

 I do. I always play paragon in ME/2. As some of the people here have mentioned, the renegade option allows them to be more rude and ruthless than possible in real life. the opposite is also true. Mass Effect allows for me to be nicer and more vertues than I'm in real life. 

As a paragon I can get around all of the nasty, necessary choses that we have to make and do what is right because it is right. And by the rules of the universe, I will succeed because of the force of Sheperd's peronalty and will. not just because s/he is the strongest or the quickest. As Sheperd, I can make the vurtues choses and personally prevent remaking the same crimes and evil actions of our species because I CAN.

I can chose the harder path of saving a innocent lives over combat necessary allot easier than in real life. For if I make a mistake, all i have to do is reload a save . while I the same mistake is make in the real world the dead stay dead. The Moscow Theater Hostage Crisis is an example of paragon chooses used in the game that fail miserably in real life.

And that what mass effect is escapism from the compexities of the real world, and allows for one man (or woman) to change the face of there universe. when given this responsibility, I choese paragon because I have a hard time knowingly being mean and routhless when I don't have and still save the galixey.

[Landon Frost]

^this. I think that is part of the problem with ME. You *KNOW* that the paragon option will end well. I would love for some paragon options to fail. You smooth talk a ruthless criminal and he turns and pops a cap in the hostage anyway. Would make you think options through more rather than just saying "oh a blue response" click.

[Ahglock]

Landon Frost wrote...

^this. I think that is part of the problem with ME. You *KNOW* that the paragon option will end well. I would love for some paragon options to fail. You smooth talk a ruthless criminal and he turns and pops a cap in the hostage anyway. Would make you think options through more rather than just saying "oh a blue response" click.

Do renegade options fail?

I remember one hostage situation where I think I basically said get em, and everyone died.  The mission was a success because the bad guys were dead.  But I can't remember if that was red renegade or just a grey option. 

[Landon Frost]

Ahglock wrote...

Landon Frost wrote...

^this. I think that is part of the problem with ME. You *KNOW* that the paragon option will end well. I would love for some paragon options to fail. You smooth talk a ruthless criminal and he turns and pops a cap in the hostage anyway. Would make you think options through more rather than just saying "oh a blue response" click.

Do renegade options fail?

I remember one hostage situation where I think I basically said get em, and everyone died.  The mission was a success because the bad guys were dead.  But I can't remember if that was red renegade or just a grey option. 

No they don't "fail" but they do have mixed results.  Like the one above.  The hostage was rescued but the bad guys died.  But you know if you chose Paragon that everyone is coming out alive.

[Ahglock]

Landon Frost wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Landon Frost wrote...

^this. I think that is part of the problem with ME. You *KNOW* that the paragon option will end well. I would love for some paragon options to fail. You smooth talk a ruthless criminal and he turns and pops a cap in the hostage anyway. Would make you think options through more rather than just saying "oh a blue response" click.

Do renegade options fail?

I remember one hostage situation where I think I basically said get em, and everyone died.  The mission was a success because the bad guys were dead.  But I can't remember if that was red renegade or just a grey option. 

No they don't "fail" but they do have mixed results.  Like the one above.  The hostage was rescued but the bad guys died.  But you know if you chose Paragon that everyone is coming out alive.

Cool.  Then yes paragons actions should have mixed results as well. 

[Jerecaine]

why is it considered a bad thing to be 100% on either side? Looking at a gaming point of view, it's exploring as much of the game as possible from that one side.



I'm one of the types that slides to paragon normally, but I got tired of it and started on a Renegade playthough, and it's great to try something different instead of being completely helpful 24/7.

[Tonymac]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

In general yes, but there are moments in the game where you have to set someone straight because they "dont know who they are talking to"

Does Thane need ot cloak?  ZOMG, if he could.......

Yea if he switched shredder ammo for Kasumi's ability....

I made this handle before the game came out tho lol!

  That would be SO so beast;  Kasumim Cloaking Thane, and Infiltrator Shep.  Ninja trio

[Undertone]

Having problems playing Renegade? You must be kidding me. Paragon Shepard is a wimp, I guess it only makes sense when somebody is actually a wimp no offense. Not only that but it's illogical. Letting a dangerous criminal go? Sacrificing the life of the many for a few people? If you claim you are so called good, you are not. Also you need to learn that a little backbone isn't bad.

I never had a game in which given a chance like that I would be good/paragon or whatever. Not in the traditional sense. My characters are always anti-heroes. However even I wouldn't be above a few paragon actions (mind you there are only few). Perfect example is the Jacob's loyalty mission - a woman is talking to you and she is about to be shot. It's sort of retarded to let her get killed. Plus you need the information. Otherwise Shepard is number 1, the rest I will help if it benefits me. Some of the renegade choices even offer tactical advantage (Miranda's loyalty mission beginning), it's retarded no to take them.

Very few of the Paragon decisions make sense, are practical and rational. Most of them are stupid, gutless, wimp or are completely lack of long term thinking. I don't know I've always wondered why people love to play errand boys/girls that are being used by everyone.

It's also completely illogical and retarded that all the Paragon choices work out but by now I am used to with Shepard having the Talk-jutsu.

Modifié par Undertone, 23 novembre 2010 - 05:34 .

[Vena_86]

Well to me many renegade options are just racist or extremely unpractical like treating my own team badly does not make much sense. Making tough decisions is one thing but acting like a jerk without good reasons does not really help anyone or my mission. When dealing with scum I usually go for renegade...well until the game does not give me the choice anymore because I did not go for the complete bad guy path and have to take the paragon choice.

Ideally my shepard would have a 80-90%full paragon bar and probably like 50% full renegade bar if it would be possible to freely roleplay.

[Sursion]

I like renegade dialogue, but not renegade choices. So for this reason, I usually go paragon with the big stuff, and renegade with everything else. This results in a very neutral mix, with paragon only slightly edging ahead.

"Tell me what you know or I'll cut your balls off and sell them to a Krogan!!"

[Ahglock]

Undertone wrote...

Having problems playing Renegade? You must be kidding me. Paragon Shepard is a wimp, I guess it only makes sense when somebody is actually a wimp no offense. Not only that but it's illogical. Letting a dangerous criminal go? Sacrificing the life of the many for a few people? If you claim you are so called good, you are not. Also you need to learn that a little backbone isn't bad.

I never had a game in which given a chance like that I would be good/paragon or whatever. Not in the traditional sense. My characters are always anti-heroes. However even I wouldn't be above a few paragon actions (mind you there are only few). Perfect example is the Jacob's loyalty mission - a woman is talking to you and she is about to be shot. It's sort of retarded to let her get killed. Plus you need the information. Otherwise Shepard is number 1, the rest I will help if it benefits me. Some of the renegade choices even offer tactical advantage (Miranda's loyalty mission beginning), it's retarded no to take them.

Very few of the Paragon decisions make sense, are practical and rational. Most of them are stupid, gutless, wimp or are completely lack of long term thinking. I don't know I've always wondered why people love to play errand boys/girls that are being used by everyone.

It's also completely illogical and retarded that all the Paragon choices work out but by now I am used to with Shepard having the Talk-jutsu.

Edited out me being me.

Really depends on the lines for who you are talking to etc and why.  But yes the never fail thing gets old. 

Modifié par Ahglock, 23 novembre 2010 - 11:13 .

[Ahglock]

Sursion wrote...

I like renegade dialogue, but not renegade choices. So for this reason, I usually go paragon with the big stuff, and renegade with everything else. This results in a very neutral mix, with paragon only slightly edging ahead.

"Tell me what you know or I'll cut your balls off and sell them to a Krogan!!"

Depends on the dialogue.  Renegade dialogue with friends just kind of sound s like a jerk to me.  Renegade dialogue with others sometimes sounds cool, sometimes comes off as bluster.  Kind of depends on who you are talking to.  Aria for exmaple the, I have similar rules option sounds like bluster since she talks down to you.(I so wanted to kill her)

Renegade decisions I like the ones that just seem like the smart play.  Others it seems like being an ass just to be an ass.  The throian episode is an exmaple of just being an ass IMO. 

[Zubie]

Undertone wrote...

Having problems playing Renegade? You must be kidding me. Paragon Shepard is a wimp, I guess it only makes sense when somebody is actually a wimp no offense. Not only that but it's illogical. Letting a dangerous criminal go? Sacrificing the life of the many for a few people? If you claim you are so called good, you are not. Also you need to learn that a little backbone isn't bad.

I never had a game in which given a chance like that I would be good/paragon or whatever. Not in the traditional sense. My characters are always anti-heroes. However even I wouldn't be above a few paragon actions (mind you there are only few). Perfect example is the Jacob's loyalty mission - a woman is talking to you and she is about to be shot. It's sort of retarded to let her get killed. Plus you need the information. Otherwise Shepard is number 1, the rest I will help if it benefits me. Some of the renegade choices even offer tactical advantage (Miranda's loyalty mission beginning), it's retarded no to take them.

Very few of the Paragon decisions make sense, are practical and rational. Most of them are stupid, gutless, wimp or are completely lack of long term thinking. I don't know I've always wondered why people love to play errand boys/girls that are being used by everyone.

It's also completely illogical and retarded that all the Paragon choices work out but by now I am used to with Shepard having the Talk-jutsu.

I hope you know the whole point isn't to pick the paragon or renegade option EVERYTIME. If you're playing a more paragon character, and the paragon route in a certain situation doesn't seem like a particularly good idea, then don't pick it for god's sake. Same goes for a heavy renegade character. You don't just go shooting everyone that looks at you the wrong way, that's stupid.

Are there stupid paragon decisions? Yeah, a couple, but that doesn't stop you from picking either the neutral or renegade line in those situations. Besides, there are a handful of bad renegade choices as well so I don't see your point here.

Also, helping people out = no backbone apparently, great advice....  At the end of the day, people do these "errands" for more exp anyways.

Modifié par easygame88, 24 novembre 2010 - 01:20 .

[Sursion]

Ahglock wrote...

Sursion wrote...

I like renegade dialogue, but not renegade choices. So for this reason, I usually go paragon with the big stuff, and renegade with everything else. This results in a very neutral mix, with paragon only slightly edging ahead.

"Tell me what you know or I'll cut your balls off and sell them to a Krogan!!"

Depends on the dialogue.  Renegade dialogue with friends just kind of sound s like a jerk to me.  Renegade dialogue with others sometimes sounds cool, sometimes comes off as bluster.  Kind of depends on who you are talking to.  Aria for exmaple the, I have similar rules option sounds like bluster since she talks down to you.(I so wanted to kill her)

Renegade decisions I like the ones that just seem like the smart play.  Others it seems like being an ass just to be an ass.  The throian episode is an exmaple of just being an ass IMO. 

It depends really. Sometimes Shepard says some funny stuff. Otherwise, I avoid saying the mean stuff (Like saying "Cry me a river" to Samara) to friends.

[Esmerella]

I actually use a few renegade interruptions. head butt the krogan, shot the tank to stop the other one from talking, I always push the guy out the window if I have jack with me.

[JG The Gamer]

What I always do, is play as the good guy (Paragon) on my first playthrough. Always. But the 2nd time around, I play as the bad guy (Renegade) on my 2nd run through the game.



Separating fantasy from reality isn't too hard. And admit it, some of the renegade choices are choices we want to make in real life but know we actually can't make said choices.

[Undertone]

easygame88 wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Having problems playing Renegade? You must be kidding me. Paragon Shepard is a wimp, I guess it only makes sense when somebody is actually a wimp no offense. Not only that but it's illogical. Letting a dangerous criminal go? Sacrificing the life of the many for a few people? If you claim you are so called good, you are not. Also you need to learn that a little backbone isn't bad.

I never had a game in which given a chance like that I would be good/paragon or whatever. Not in the traditional sense. My characters are always anti-heroes. However even I wouldn't be above a few paragon actions (mind you there are only few). Perfect example is the Jacob's loyalty mission - a woman is talking to you and she is about to be shot. It's sort of retarded to let her get killed. Plus you need the information. Otherwise Shepard is number 1, the rest I will help if it benefits me. Some of the renegade choices even offer tactical advantage (Miranda's loyalty mission beginning), it's retarded no to take them.

Very few of the Paragon decisions make sense, are practical and rational. Most of them are stupid, gutless, wimp or are completely lack of long term thinking. I don't know I've always wondered why people love to play errand boys/girls that are being used by everyone.

It's also completely illogical and retarded that all the Paragon choices work out but by now I am used to with Shepard having the Talk-jutsu.

I hope you know the whole point isn't to pick the paragon or renegade option EVERYTIME. If you're playing a more paragon character, and the paragon route in a certain situation doesn't seem like a particularly good idea, then don't pick it for god's sake. Same goes for a heavy renegade character. You don't just go shooting everyone that looks at you the wrong way, that's stupid.

Are there stupid paragon decisions? Yeah, a couple, but that doesn't stop you from picking either the neutral or renegade line in those situations. Besides, there are a handful of bad renegade choices as well so I don't see your point here.

Also, helping people out = no backbone apparently, great advice....  At the end of the day, people do these "errands" for more exp anyways.

What would you consider bad renegade choices?

 And yes I never argued for 100% renegade. In one of my paragraphs I mentioned there are occasions when it's just not logical not to help - the woman you can easily protect from getting a headshot is one example. While I do like evil characters more then good ones (plain boring) I do have to say that all my so called "evil" characters have some sort of honor or etiquette. I guess I can put in this way - Power, self-gain are prime motivators but killing someone who isn't any threat to me is something I wouldn't do. 

Letting the kid on Omega get killed - no problem. Everyone has a choice, if you are weak you come back when you get stronger. If you are weak and stupid - you die. Letting the salarian die of blood loss when I can easily save him without any loss for me - why not. Letting the Council die for their own stupidity and lack of vision, conserving my strength to destory the enemy - Hell yeah. I hope you can see my rationale.

What pisses me off is pure paragons. Somebody crossed your path and messed you up or put you in danger - you let them go!? No, you put a bullet in their head. You don't just let your enemy go. As for the crew - when my crew is being incompetent or stupid, I tell them to fall in line or be more efficient. Of course the game doesn't allow you to kill your own crew or demote them or whatever punishment mechanic other then being an **** (except Wrex). When Kaidan in ME1 was incompetent on Eden Prime - I told him just that. When Wrex was being an idiot he either fell in line or he got himself killed. Being overly nice and fluffly with your crew doesn't cut it for me.

"Jacob - do you trust me? Uhm yeah I met you 5 minutes ago, I am trusting you 100%." If the game allowed me to lie I would have, but since there isn't such option - I plainly tell him to just do his job. Which brings me to - have the loyalty system if it's introduced in ME3 again be like KotoR 2 or Dragon Age. ME2 loyalty system was retarded.

[Ahglock]

So you want to play lawful evil or in palladium rpg terms aberrant.

[Prazza]

I am 100% renegade because I am THAT legit.

[Xilizhra]

What pisses me off is pure paragons. Somebody crossed your path and messed you up or put you in danger - you let them go!? No, you put a bullet in their head. You don't just let your enemy go. As for the crew - when my crew is being incompetent or stupid, I tell them to fall in line or be more efficient. Of course the game doesn't allow you to kill your own crew or demote them or whatever punishment mechanic other then being an **** (except Wrex). When Kaidan in ME1 was incompetent on Eden Prime - I told him just that. When Wrex was being an idiot he either fell in line or he got himself killed. Being overly nice and fluffly with your crew doesn't cut it for me.

Actually letting one's enemy go happens quite rarely, especially if they've already shot at you. I suppose Fist counts, but I've always brought Wrex to face him, so it's never been an issue for me. Elnora didn't actually attack you... Father Kyle and the biotic terrorist head both get arrested...