110 réponses à ce sujet

[Kurt M.]

Wrexdot wrote...

I really love playing as renegade Shepard. 80% of my playthroughs are renegade (i had only one paragon shepard, damn boring). "Good" Shepard looks like 12-years old girl unable to make hard decisions.

Save Feros colonists? Why would i save few stupid people? Kill'em all is easier.

But i just love loyalty mission on a Migrant Fleet. So epic. I always
give evidence, it's the only right decision to make. Who cares about
Tali? She should be grateful, she avoided exile.

And you dare to talk about 12-year kid behaviour...

Easiest decision was on Zaeed mission. We came to kill Vido, not save few workers. Why care?

Wrong. Zaeed was contracted by the company that owns the refinery to free it, not to explicitly kill Vido. At least you could bother to pay attention to the story.

[dmblackone]

To be honest, i couldnt really force me to play pure renegade, so i just imported my ME1 paragon save and went through ME2 as renegade with some paragon choices i couldnt resist, some interrupts and dialogues are frackin epic

[Cortyman]

I think being a 'badass' renegade in Mass Effect 1 was better with options like killing Shiala or Chorban - "Nobody attacks me and walks away!" - You say to Chorban before blowing him away. Even your dialogue options to your crew when they talked about themselves you could be a little on the 'mean' side.



In Mass Effect 2, you can't be as mean. Not because you feel the need to be more of a paragon, but because the options are not there. For example, at the start of the game you can be go a little renegade to Miranda, but later when she talks about her father, her genetic engineering, there are no renegade options. You can't be 'mean' to her about that subject.

[Undertone]

Ahglock wrote...

So you want to play lawful evil or in palladium rpg terms aberrant.

Yeah I was thinking of throwing the typical D&D (or whatever system) term of Lawful Evil. On closer inspection though I would likely be a Neutral Evil. 

"Neutral Evil is called the "Malefactor" alignment. Characters of this
alignment are typically selfish and have no qualms about turning on
their allies-of-the-moment. They have no compunctions about harming
others to get what they want, but neither will they go out of their way
to cause carnage or mayhem when they see no direct benefit to it. They
abide by laws for only as long as it is convenient for them. Neither bound by any sort of honor or
tradition nor disorganized and pointlessly violent."

That's exactly my kind of Shepard or any of my characters that have the game freedom to make choices. The last part is especially right. How to put it - it's a more nietschian perspective. Conflict serves to better oneself. Killing an enemy without mercy is one thing but my character would be oppossed to child slavery if it makes any sense.

Mind you ME moral system is very restrictive hence why I would find myself much more on the renegade scale.


And yes as the above poster I found the lack of being authoritative and mean to the crew to be lacking. I mean there are a few lines, but only a few and not that important.

Modifié par Undertone, 24 novembre 2010 - 09:50 .

[Nashiktal]

I would like the renegade choices more if there actually renegade. I think they got the concept of "good and evil" mixed up with "professional and at all costs", which in turn got mixed up with "naive and jerk."



To top it all off, I cant even mix and match paragon and renegade choices without hampering my character's persuasion abilities. I just dont see why they can't make a single persuasion ability we can invest into, and then choose our response regardless of "alignment".

[Undertone]

Yep that's what I meant (and more but stated that many times in other threads) with ME having a restrictive moral system. That and every Paragon choice working out thanks to Shepard's irresistible Talk-Justsu converting heartless criminals into law abiding citizens 

Modifié par Undertone, 24 novembre 2010 - 10:05 .

[Xilizhra]

Paragon players who want more interesting things to happen in their plots, I can understand. Renegade players jealous of Paragons strike me as being remarkably silly. Why care about what happens in a story you don't play?

[Undertone]

Xilizhra wrote...

Paragon players who want more interesting things to happen in their plots, I can understand. Renegade players jealous of Paragons strike me as being remarkably silly. Why care about what happens in a story you don't play?

It's a problem when Paragon choices equal more content and Renegade choices equal less content. Do you really want me to go into that? I believe there have been posters with far better constructed posts that I could ever make (as english isn't my native tongue) in regard to this issue.

Even disregarding that - to have one path always leading to success and the other always leading to mess up the player is retarded. Only the last choice in ME2 seem to make things a tad better for renegade players but that remains to be seen as it could totally blow up in the face of renegade players as Bioware continues to favour the Paragon fan base.

Modifié par Undertone, 24 novembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[Xilizhra]

It's a problem when Paragon choices equal more content and Renegade choices equal less content. Do you really want me to go into that? I believe there have been posters with far better constructed posts that I could ever make (as english isn't my native tongue) in regard to this issue.

Then hope for more content by all means, but don't go asking for us to get shafted.

[Undertone]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's a problem when Paragon choices equal more content and Renegade choices equal less content. Do you really want me to go into that? I believe there have been posters with far better constructed posts that I could ever make (as english isn't my native tongue) in regard to this issue.

Then hope for more content by all means, but don't go asking for us to get shafted.

I have no idea what you mean by shafted but I can get it's negative. I don't want Paragons to be cut from content or anything like that - I want their choices to be more realistic and not turn out right every single time. How is it rewarding to know that whatever choice you make it's going to be right? No suspence, no inside turmoil, no tension.

That would actually encourage me to have a paragon character for a change. I imagine it would have the same effect to other people who were turned off to playing paragon.

And indeed I would be very happy if Bioware did something for the renegade fan base. Many of the choices renegades have made should make people react to Shepard (yes I know about the turian on the Citadel in ME2), killing people shouldn't equal to missing content.

The simplest example is having mercs attack you for killing some NPC in ME1 or a sister cursing with tears in her eyes for leaving her brother to die. Something that could cause emotional turmoil even into a hardened cold hearted Shepard.

[Xilizhra]

I don't want Paragons to be cut from content or anything like that - I want their choices to be more realistic and not turn out right every single time. How is it rewarding to know that whatever choice you make it's going to be right? No suspence, no inside turmoil, no tension.

You don't play Paragon. Why do you care about this?

That would actually encourage me to have a paragon character for a change. I imagine it would have the same effect to other people who were turned off to playing paragon.

Ah, that. Although most people turned off from this think that Paragons are idiots.

[Aigyl]

I think the problem with trying to make a Paragon choice the worse decision is it would be hard to make it not feel cheap. I mean, here's the basic scenarios I can think of:

a) Paragon takes a risk, it backfires. Unless this risk was clearly shown to be very, very, stupid and you were warned more than once not to take it, then it would just feel like a 'gotcha!' moment where you were being punished for picking the 'good' option.

Paragon chooses to save innocents but lets the bad guy get away. This has already been done with Balak in BDTS (and kinda in the Zaeed mission too) and I thought it was a great decision, but it's a rather conditional scenario and would feel forced if you kept running into it.

c) Paragon sticks to their principles even if the end result is worse because of it. I'd actually like to see this one. For once let the pragmatic or colder decision be the one that will make the galaxy a better place, though at a price not everyone is willing to pay or carry out. You couldn't keep repeating this though or it would get pretty dreary and irritating.


That's all I can think of at this hour, ultimately though I think Paragon has to have good results and rewarding endings, for at least the majority of the time. If you didn't and playing Paragon just ended up with sucky results and risks backfiring all the time, then there'd be no reason to play Paragon if your principles aren't helping anyone, while in the current morality system Renegade does have good reasons to play (advancing humanity further, saving the many over the few, funny lines + coolness factor). You would also end up playing a guessing game trying to figure out if this Paragon risk will work out or backfire this time, and I don't think that'd be particularly fun.

Hope that made sense, my two cents.

[Soahfreako]

I can't play renegade. Period. It hurts too much. D: though I do punch the reporter every time, cause that's just funny.

[NPH11]

I tend to play a paragon character. I try to play renegade, but I just feel weird doing it for some reason. Maybe I'm just odd.

[Manic Sheep]

Xilizhra wrote...
Ah, that. Although most people turned off from this think that Paragons are idiots.

Actually he’s outlined the issue I have playing paragon pretty well tho I may or may not be the majority. Yes it is true that I consider allot of paragon options stupid I also consider allot of renegade options stupid so the point is moot. Tho some of the paragon options I wouldn't personally pick if I was in that situation (assuming I wasn’t sitting in a corner freaking out of course but hey that’s why I’m not saving the world ) I would find it more fun to role-play the paragon type if things didn't turn out brilliantly all the time because at the moment I just find playing full paragon a little boring. Not saying all of them should end badly, the majority of them shouldn’t but the occasional one blowing up in your face would do allot to make things more interesting for someone like me. As it is I always have to give characters some 'renegade' type feature (temper, hatred and racism of batarians, distrust of everyone in Cerberus not just TIM ect) even if their mostly paragon to spice things up a little and as an excuse to make them make some mistakes. More emotional turmoil and character flaws! I want my characters to suffer mwhahahahaha*cough*

Seriously tho just because it’s what I would want doesn’t mean it’s what most would want and I can just keep playing renegons and paragades so its not a huge issue but I would be happy if bioware just gave some of the renegade choices a bit more follow thru rather than slapping paragon choices.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 25 novembre 2010 - 02:15 .

[Havokk7]

Too many of the Renegade options are not "the ends justify the means" but "be a petty jerk".



I wanted Renegade Shepard to be Dirty Harry Callaghan or Judge Dredd. Instead, she was just mean for no reason. Calling Joker a "cripple"?

[Collider]

The prime directive for renegade in Mass Effect seems to have been "badass" more than anything else.

[ReiSilver]

Manic Sheep wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Ah, that. Although most people turned off from this think that Paragons are idiots.

Actually he’s outlined the issue I have playing paragon pretty well tho I may or may not be the majority. Yes it is true that I consider allot of paragon options stupid I also consider allot of renegade options stupid so the point is moot. Tho some of the paragon options I wouldn't personally pick if I was in that situation (assuming I wasn’t sitting in a corner freaking out of course but hey that’s why I’m not saving the world ) I would find it more fun to role-play the paragon type if things didn't turn out brilliantly all the time because at the moment I just find playing full paragon a little boring. Not saying all of them should end badly, the majority of them shouldn’t but the occasional one blowing up in your face would do allot to make things more interesting for someone like me. As it is I always have to give characters some 'renegade' type feature (temper, hatred and racism of batarians, distrust of everyone in Cerberus not just TIM ect) even if their mostly paragon to spice things up a little and as an excuse to make them make some mistakes. More emotional turmoil and character flaws! I want my characters to suffer mwhahahahaha*cough*

Seriously tho just because it’s what I would want doesn’t mean it’s what most would want and I can just keep playing renegons and paragades so its not a huge issue but I would be happy if bioware just gave some of the renegade choices a bit more follow thru rather than slapping paragon choices.

I think in most cases Mass Effect has taught that if you get the coloured dialogue options then everythings going to work out e.g. Tali's trial has about 5 ways of going about it both the coloured Ren and Para options will end well where the others will end not-so-well, in these cases if you wanted to you can still play Para or Ren and not succeed 100%. I know part of the reason I started really likeing playing Mass Effect were the coloured paragon speaches made me feel like Captain Picard
But I remember back in ME1 with Toombs playing a Sole Survivor my normally Paragon Shep decided that after all he was put through she had to let Toombs make his own choice, she might have shot the guy herself but she wasn't the one he'd wronged the most, then, well if you've played it this way you know this doesn't end up so well and it was a really devestating moment and while I considered reloading I ended up leaving it and letting it become part of my Shepard's character, cementing cerberus hate... awkward in ME2 but it also made Garrus' loyalty mission a whole lot more interesting to be faced with letting a friend take revenge and fear Toombs 2.0 happening or step in this time and get a different outcome.

[Hoogies123]

Collider wrote...

The prime directive for renegade in Mass Effect seems to have been "badass" more than anything else.

I agree with this statement. This was also the problem with the first Mass Effect. Most of the renegade options were just mean spirited, or just simply rude. I would not go so far as to say a full renegade Shepard was ever really evil or a renegade.

Rather than Shepard give a snappy one liner at someone who shows disrespect towards him/her, have him/her stare the person down in a such a manner that they practically ****** themselves, or walk up with a smile and put a small blade in their vocal cavity.

I at least want to have the option of being evil and making evil choices instead of just joke of the day Shepard.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Playing as Renegade, regardless of the obvious rudeness and hostility on Shepard's part, is hilarious and FUN.

I understand why it's so hard for some people to play as a Renegade, but really, it's something you should try at some point. You don't have to be 100% Renegade; just mostly Renegade. It's worth the try.

[PiEman]

On my third playthrough, and I'm only doing Paragon.



I can't do evil on any games. Ever. I just can't.



This one is kind of a special case though. I took some advice from TVtropes, and took the Ruthless background and Earthborn, and I'm making my Shep (first FemShep for me) The Atoner by having her do Paragon options. To kind of nail that in a little more, I had her doing all neutral options up until the beacon on Eden Prime.

[kaff33nd]

I don't know if it's been said yet, but in any case I find that in ME2 playing renegade is only hard for me when dealing with TIM. In those cases Paragon is the new Renegade. When talking to TIM, Renegade = compliance, whereas Paragon is defiant. At all other times this is reversed.

[Fiery Phoenix]

kaff33nd wrote...

I don't know if it's been said yet, but in any case I find that in ME2 playing renegade is only hard for me when dealing with TIM. In those cases Paragon is the new Renegade. When talking to TIM, Renegade = compliance, whereas Paragon is defiant. At all other times this is reversed.

And there is a perfectly justifiable reason for that, which I assume you do know.