137 réponses à ce sujet

[GracefulChicken]

Just wrapped up my Vanguard playthrough and started my 3rd Infiltrator, thanks to this thread. I was going to do an Adept, but after seeing these videos, I'm thoroughly impressed with how smooth this setup plays on a 360 (minimal pausing to use powers since the skills used fit on the 3 hotkeys, etc). I'm going to be doing something very similair to this, and certainly inspired by this setup. I'll probably switch out Improved Cyro for Squad Cryo, since I personally despise using cyro ammo myself. Flashbangs really compliment this class well, too. I've never had a problem aiming them, and they're the ultimate CC ability. So far I'm loving this setup (only on Grunts RM, and I've only done Mordins RM and Kasumis LM so far, though), it meshes well with how I play. Kudos.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

Here's a question: I really like the widow, so do you think the Predator could be an adequate substitute for the Mattock? I know dps-wise, it's leaps and bounds away, but I'm pretty sure that the Predator has a very high freezing probability with cryo ammo, from my hardcore difficulty experiences anyway.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Njorls wrote...

Nice videos Tony, it's good to see more
good xbox players. I'm having a lot of fun with your build, it's my
favorite infiltrator by far.

Glad you're enjoying it

GracefulChicken wrote...

Just wrapped up my Vanguard playthrough and started my 3rd Infiltrator, thanks to this thread. I was going to do an Adept, but after seeing these videos, I'm thoroughly impressed with how smooth this setup plays on a 360 (minimal pausing to use powers since the skills used fit on the 3 hotkeys, etc). I'm going to be doing something very similair to this, and certainly inspired by this setup. I'll probably switch out Improved Cyro for Squad Cryo, since I personally despise using cyro ammo myself. Flashbangs really compliment this class well, too. I've never had a problem aiming them, and they're the ultimate CC ability. So far I'm loving this setup (only on Grunts RM, and I've only done Mordins RM and Kasumis LM so far, though), it meshes well with how I play. Kudos.

Thanks, I'm an Xbox player too, so most of my Shepards are based on 3 powers as well. It's too bad we can't really use more than that without pausing, especially as an Adept.

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Here's a question: I really
like the widow, so do you think the Predator could be an adequate
substitute for the Mattock? I know dps-wise, it's leaps and bounds away,
but I'm pretty sure that the Predator has a very high freezing
probability with cryo ammo, from my hardcore difficulty experiences
anyway.

You can certainly play it that way, but you'll probably be using the Widow in most cicumstances. The Predator doesn't get damage bonus vs shields and barriers so it'll take longer to freeze mercs and collectors, so the Locust would be a better overall choice that you're given.

If anyone haven't already, you should check out OniGanon's Invasive Maneuvers, he shows what you can do with any type of Infiltrators. It's very through and a good read and lots of video tutorials, one of the best. If that's the type of gameplay you like, you should choose the weapons and skills best suited to it, which would mostly be shotguns, and in my case, the Mattock. My build takes a lot of his flanking manuevers further by adding FB to be a dedicated CC character, using the Viper as a poor man's ARush, and the Mattock is actually my backup... not so much as my main weapon. Also if you haven't yet, check out Thisisme8's CQC Infiltrator, you can use the shotgun with the skill setup I made just as well.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

Tony, your build has officially inspired me. I'll try to record some footage of the derivative build that I made, once I've managed to record some decent footage of it.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Miss Yuna of Atlanta wrote...

Tony, your build has officially inspired me. I'll try to record some footage of the derivative build that I made, once I've managed to record some decent footage of it.

I've been inspired by the people here , I love seeing different builds and people's style of play, it makes me learn something new, and I'm still learning too.

[Tony Gunslinger]

I think it's quite possible that I've made the boringest collector platforms vid ever:

Collector Ship Platforms

It's not entirely caused by exploiting Harbinger, I think part of it was also attributed by FB and Cryo Ammo knocking out the other Collectors and not killing them for so long that it doesn't trigger reinforcements as quickly as you'd normally get. Although the FB exploit doesn't guarantee the fight to be walk in the park, I still personally think it's borderline game-breaking, but I'll leave that up to each player's take on it.

[Praetor Knight]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

I think it's quite possible that I've made the boringest collector platforms vid ever:

Boring? That's not boring, and good vid by the way.

I prefer taking Kasumi, since I haven't figured out how to get the grenade to land where I want it, and I prefer insta-cast powers anyway.

And another note, if that's boring then don't watch me play, I'll put you to sleep-_-!

[Tony Gunslinger]

You're right, it's not easy to get grenades land right inside their boxes since each succeeding platforms get higher and higher, quite a few of them I've thrown either fell short or gone off the cliff. I guess boring means is that I'm used to seeing videos with lots of veins and players going head-on w/Harbinger. I think I won't be using FB on him anymore, I'm starting to miss his trash-talking actually being backed up w/action.

[Bozorgmehr]

I stopped using FB on Harby because it makes previously hard and interesting battles very easy. I recommend to switch to Slam or NS on Collector missions. Slam will allow insta warp explosions and NS is awesome - both are on a 3 s (base) cooldown.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Good idea, it would be kinda silly to gimp myself just to avoid a glitch. NS was my 2nd option anyways, so I'll take that. I had a personal rule not to respec, but in this case it makes sense. I really wouldn't mind if BW fixes powers like FB and Stasis, and add a bit of recoil on the Mattock to balance things out. Thanks for the tip

[Bozorgmehr]

I like to respec for certain missions; there's no point having Overload, ED and AI Hacking on Collector Missions. Same with NS against Geth. But they're great on most other missions. I do try to limit respec; I'll do Horizon > bunch of N7 Assignments > DCS (> sometimes IFF) and I'll try doing all Geth missions one after the other. Everything else can be played without respec and you'll have plenty of zero anyways - I also respec squadies btw

[Simbacca]

I don't limit respeccing at all; there's just so much eezo around on all playthroughs after the first it's almost silly not to. My Engineer, for example, has two completely different builds, one for organic enemy missions and one for synthetic. I think the only classes I don't respec much is the Vanguard and the Soldier.

Modifié par Simbacca, 14 décembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[SonofMacPhisto]

@Tony - I just wanted to stop in and let you know, while I haven't tried your build yet, it did inspire my current Vanguard build.  I chose Assault Rifle Training for the first time as a Vanguard, and when your build popped into my mind I decided to try Improved Cryo rounds specifically for the Mattock.  I'm only playing on Veteran right now, so it's been VERY effective to freeze guys from range and then charge in for the kill.  With careful application of squad powers for stripping defenses and Stasis for the most dangerous foes, I think it'll work pretty well on Hardcore, too.  In fact, I've noticed that the time it takes for an enemy to freeze is JUST enough to switch to shotgun before the biotic charge.  I'm going to play around with that tactic next time I'm playing.

Additionally, keeping the SMG in reserve for big, shielded targets is brilliant.  This really showed on Haestrom, against the bigger geth units.  The Locust kind of blinded me to that, and your build showed me SMGs could still be effective even with ARs.
In any case, cheers for another example of one class and playstyle influencing another!

Modifié par SonofMacPhisto, 14 décembre 2010 - 06:22 .

[Simbacca]

I've been using a mix of Squad Cryo and Inferno ammos on my Mattock and Shotguns with my latest Vanguard for a while now as well SonofMacPhisto (even have lvl 3 Stasis as a bonus too).  It does seem to allow me a little more flexibility from the normally one trick pony class (though that one trick is awesome).  Still, I just can't take Improved Cryo Ammo.  Maybe if the Improved evolution actually caused the enemies to snap freeze much more instaneously I would, but as is the extra 2 seconds does not outweigh the rest of my squad being able to freeze and re-freeze enemies as well, in my opinion.

[edit] can - can't

Modifié par Simbacca, 14 décembre 2010 - 08:21 .

[SonofMacPhisto]

Simbacca wrote...

I've been using a mix of Squad Cryo and Inferno ammos on my Mattock and Shotguns with my latest Vanguard for a while now as well SonofMacPhisto (even have lvl 3 Stasis as a bonus too).  It does seem to allow me a little more flexibility from the normally one trick pony class (though that one trick is awesome).  Still, I just can take Improved Cryo Ammo.  Maybe if the Improved evolution actually caused the enemies to snap freeze much more instaneously I would, but as is the extra 2 seconds does not outweigh the rest of my squad being able to freeze and re-freeze enemies as well, in my opinion.

I'll give that a shot, and see what I think.  It'll be a debate between me choosing who gets frozen with Improved and the widespread CC of Squad.

[Bozorgmehr]

I've heard rumors that Improved Cryo does cause enemies to freeze faster, but haven't tested this myself (Adepts and Engineers can't use Cryo Ammo  ). But the difference should be small - if it exists at all.

I don't think the Improved version suits a Vanguard, but Infiltrators who focus on CC instead of OSOK sniping will like the added duration (don't forget the duration bonuses - research/passive). My SG Infiltrator had a much easier time with Improved Cryo Ammo, sniping enemies first (Viper) to freeze them; switch to shotgun, move in and shoot-shatter. The added duration allows 2-3 kills before affected enemies are shooting again. The squad version allows 1-2 kills, but once you've dealt with enemy defenses, your squad will keep most enemies frozen permanently.

I both equally

[SonofMacPhisto]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

I've heard rumors that Improved Cryo does cause enemies to freeze faster, but haven't tested this myself (Adepts and Engineers can't use Cryo Ammo  ). But the difference should be small - if it exists at all.

I don't think the Improved version suits a Vanguard, but Infiltrators who focus on CC instead of OSOK sniping will like the added duration (don't forget the duration bonuses - research/passive). My SG Infiltrator had a much easier time with Improved Cryo Ammo, sniping enemies first (Viper) to freeze them; switch to shotgun, move in and shoot-shatter. The added duration allows 2-3 kills before affected enemies are shooting again. The squad version allows 1-2 kills, but once you've dealt with enemy defenses, your squad will keep most enemies frozen permanently.

I both equally

Wait... I'm confused.  You say Improved doesn't suit a Vanguard, but you use it on a SG Infiltrator?  What makes you say that?  I'm asking because I'm essentially doing what you're doing but using the Mattock instead of the Viper, and Biotic Charge to close the distance instead of Cloak.  Did I just totally misunderstand you? /polite tone

Anyway, I'm going to try Squad Cryo, but I'm CONSTANTLY infuriated when my squad freezes a guy, and he falls behind cover.  *shrugs* Maybe I'll change my mind THIS time, you never know!

(Gosh, this game blows my mind, because so many debates just come down to player preferences.  So cool.)

Modifié par SonofMacPhisto, 14 décembre 2010 - 10:10 .

[Bozorgmehr]

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

Wait... I'm confused.  You say Improved doesn't suit a Vanguard, but you use it on a SG Infiltrator?  What makes you say that?  I'm asking because I'm essentially doing what you're doing but using the Mattock instead of the Viper, and Biotic Charge to close the distance instead of Cloak.  Did I just totally misunderstand you? /polite tone

I should have mentioned my Vanguard I like the Claymore - not much use putting Cryo Ammo on it. And I prefer Inferno Ammo's effect; only squadies use Cryo Ammo (end game). If you're playing Vanguard differently (using AR/SR bonus weapons at range followed by a SG Charge), like how I play my SG Infiltrator - then Improved Cryo should be great too.

Anyway, I'm going to try Squad Cryo, but I'm CONSTANTLY infuriated when my squad freezes a guy, and he falls behind cover.  With Improved, I get to freeze the guy and then charge almost instantly.

Good point, but it shouldn't be a real issue - once enemies are freezing/frozen, it's time to get in close to finish em off, making it easier to deal with those hide and seek enemies 

(Gosh, this game blows my mind, because so many debates just come down to player preferences.  So cool.)

Indeed, great to have forums such as these - people think of new ways to play all the time - awesome

[SonofMacPhisto]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

Wait... I'm confused.  You say Improved doesn't suit a Vanguard, but you use it on a SG Infiltrator?  What makes you say that?  I'm asking because I'm essentially doing what you're doing but using the Mattock instead of the Viper, and Biotic Charge to close the distance instead of Cloak.  Did I just totally misunderstand you? /polite tone

I should have mentioned my Vanguard I like the Claymore - not much use putting Cryo Ammo on it. And I prefer Inferno Ammo's effect; only squadies use Cryo Ammo (end game). If you're playing Vanguard differently (using AR/SR bonus weapons at range followed by a SG Charge), like how I play my SG Infiltrator - then Improved Cryo should be great too.

Anyway, I'm going to try Squad Cryo, but I'm CONSTANTLY infuriated when my squad freezes a guy, and he falls behind cover.  With Improved, I get to freeze the guy and then charge almost instantly.

Good point, but it shouldn't be a real issue - once enemies are freezing/frozen, it's time to get in close to finish em off, making it easier to deal with those hide and seek enemies 

(Gosh, this game blows my mind, because so many debates just come down to player preferences.  So cool.)

Indeed, great to have forums such as these - people think of new ways to play all the time - awesome

Ok!  I got it now.  Improved Cryo on a Claymore = lolwut?!  I totally agree with you there.  This is my first time with a AR/SG Vanguard, I always went Claymore before.

I was just thinking of your current point regarding Squad Cryo.  Up close, it shouldn't matter, and honestly, it might be the best way to do it regardless of my feelings regarding falling-down-enemies.  I'm thinking of when I try the build on Hardcore, and I'll be using my squadmates primarily for defense stripping.  Having their gunfire contribute to freezing will be invaluable, I think, especially since I favor sniping squadmates.

SUCK IT UP SONOFMACPHISTO. 

EDIT: Getting back on topic, I'm trying this Infiltrator build once I'm done with this Vanguard.  I promise!  It's interesting that I see the promise of it going through a different class.  Heh.

Modifié par SonofMacPhisto, 14 décembre 2010 - 10:46 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

I've tested it and I'm pretty sure Improved Cryo freezes faster. If you're able to, reset all your skill points and go to Mordin's LM. Once you're at the beginning, save, and test out both versions on the klixens. It took about 3 seconds for the Squad version fully freeze a klixen, while it took about 2 seconds with the Improved. The freezing speed will also depend on enemy types; lesser goons freeze faster than tougher humans, etc.

Squad vs Improved is somewhat affected by your class, weapons, and other powers, etc. but I think it ultimately comes down to what role you want to be and be consistent with it. In the Dantius Tower runs part one and part two, I rarely shoot to kill. It's a wide and deep area separated by key choke points. The enemies are far apart and in between scattered covers that can block FB's wide range. The LOKIs are advancing front lines, the charging FENRIS don't stagger while they have protection, and the mercs stay behind to form their offensive line. So to get past these large areas without turning it into a dreaded shootout, the best thing for me to do is to advance as quickly as possible by constantly flanking before the enemy establishes their offensive line. I shoot just enough to freeze, so I have more time and ammo on the next target while I let my squad takes care of the ragdolls. Maybe it's a side effect of using squad commands, I'm not sure, but my squad ALWAYS attack frozen enemies first, and the longer duration gives my squad +100% damage to their guns longer. If I used the Squad version, more enemies may be frozen, but the thing is, when that happens, I have to do the cleanup, which is not my role. The enemies get up quicker, I don't know who gets frozen, and how much time I have before the target gets back up, so I have stay back and make sure everything is dead. I waste bullets and time. And with the slower freezing speed, I'm more hesitant to shoot multiple targets in one salvo, or go mano-a-mano against a Vanguard. I think Squad Cryo makes more sense if you use slow-firing / high-damage guns a lot, such as shotguns and the Widow, where your role is to go in for the kill, one at a time, and while you're busy doing that, your squad freezes other enemies.

[SonofMacPhisto]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

I've tested it and I'm pretty sure Improved Cryo freezes faster. If you're able to, reset all your skill points and go to Mordin's LM. Once you're at the beginning, save, and test out both versions on the klixens. It took about 3 seconds for the Squad version fully freeze a klixen, while it took about 2 seconds with the Improved. The freezing speed will also depend on enemy types; lesser goons freeze faster than tougher humans, etc.

Squad vs Improved is somewhat affected by your class, weapons, and other powers, etc. but I think it ultimately comes down to what role you want to be and be consistent with it. In the Dantius Tower runs part one and part two, I rarely shoot to kill. It's a wide and deep area separated by key choke points. The enemies are far apart and in between scattered covers that can block FB's wide range. The LOKIs are advancing front lines, the charging FENRIS don't stagger while they have protection, and the mercs stay behind to form their offensive line. So to get past these large areas without turning it into a dreaded shootout, the best thing for me to do is to advance as quickly as possible by constantly flanking before the enemy establishes their offensive line. I shoot just enough to freeze, so I have more time and ammo on the next target while I let my squad takes care of the ragdolls. Maybe it's a side effect of using squad commands, I'm not sure, but my squad ALWAYS attack frozen enemies first, and the longer duration gives my squad +100% damage to their guns longer. If I used the Squad version, more enemies may be frozen, but the thing is, when that happens, I have to do the cleanup, which is not my role. The enemies get up quicker, I don't know who gets frozen, and how much time I have before the target gets back up, so I have stay back and make sure everything is dead. I waste bullets and time. And with the slower freezing speed, I'm more hesitant to shoot multiple targets in one salvo, or go mano-a-mano against a Vanguard. I think Squad Cryo makes more sense if you use slow-firing / high-damage guns a lot, such as shotguns and the Widow, where your role is to go in for the kill, one at a time, and while you're busy doing that, your squad freezes other enemies.

Thanks for this.  That's really good to know.  Now I'm leaning back towards Improved, since I'll be spamming Mattock into enemies and then charging, and if I get caught in a bind I want to make sure I freeze 'em as quickly as possible.  You also make an excellent point about squad damage when enemies are frozen.  I'd kind of forgotten about that. 

Now if I could just get home and play!

Oh, and I feel a little bad for dragging this off topic into another class, but at the same time, I'm glad we've been able to discuss Cryo a little more.  I know you guys are cool about that.  Right?  Right?!

[Tony Gunslinger]

No worries, that's the whole point of of the strategy and classes section . If you want to talk about "what's better" Improved vs. Squad Cryo, it can get really complicated, and it'll be probably going to depend on very specific circumstances. Vanguards have Inferno Ammo, which is more useful than Disruptor Ammo, so that class have more options than the Infiltrator. Distrupor ammo isn't bad, but I can live without it.

[jwalker]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

I've tested it and I'm pretty sure Improved Cryo freezes faster. If you're able to, reset all your skill points and go to Mordin's LM. Once you're at the beginning, save, and test out both versions on the klixens. It took about 3 seconds for the Squad version fully freeze a klixen, while it took about 2 seconds with the Improved. The freezing speed will also depend on enemy types; lesser goons freeze faster than tougher humans, etc.

[...]

That's good to know. Always thought the freezing 'speed' had to do with damage. I was under the impression that freezing target with the Carnifex is faster than using the Tempest...

[SonofMacPhisto]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

No worries, that's the whole point of of the strategy and classes section . If you want to talk about "what's better" Improved vs. Squad Cryo, it can get really complicated, and it'll be probably going to depend on very specific circumstances. Vanguards have Inferno Ammo, which is more useful than Disruptor Ammo, so that class have more options than the Infiltrator. Distrupor ammo isn't bad, but I can live without it.

Yeah, it's funny because it all comes down to preference and what you're trying to accomplish.  With your build, it may seem strange, initially, that you go for Squad Distruptor.  However, with your focus on freezing and controlling the battlefield, it's really the best use of that power.

Discovering that Ammo Powers are best used for their crowd control abilities was a real revelation to me.

[Tony Gunslinger]

jwalker wrote...


That's good to know. Always thought the freezing 'speed' had to do with damage. I was under the impression that freezing target with the Carnifex is faster than using the Tempest...

The freezing speed is the same, what you're seeing is maybe chance to freeze. All SMGs freeze randomly, but it's compensated by its high RoF. The Improved version supposedly inceases the chance, but for every 10 times I've burst-fired a klixen and freezes, there's always a few that don't, no matter what version I use. It's pretty random so I can't really "prove" it, I just trust the writers this time (yeah, I'm looking at you, Warp Ammo).