18 réponses à ce sujet

[carnivorous]

I put this in the spoiler section because I think with a request like this, there's bound to be some spoilers, but when suggesting a mod, please try not to reveal everything about how the mod's story goes (any discussion about the unmodded storyline is fine because I've already beaten the unmodded game).

1. That said, there are some things in the game that I feel are unsatisfactory and that I would like to change. For example, I would like to go through SoA and ToB romancing Nalia. I'm looking for a Nalia romance mod out there, and I  know they exist, but I  don't know which one allows the romance to proceed in ToB (if any) and I  don't know which ones are considered better than the others. Does anybody have a Nalia romance mod that they feel is good?  I'm open to any Nalia romance mod suggestions.

2. I don't like the way Cloak of Mirroring looks (it completely surrounds the character, and I  know I'm not alone in this. I would like its look to be reverted to something that actually allows the character to be shown (a blue circle that the character stands on would be fine). Is there a mod out there that can change this?

3. Some more character interactions in ToB would be nice. I hardly notice any meaningful dialogue in ToB, compared to SoA at least. It's mainly just random insignificant small talk. If you're a lonely Bhaalspawn with nobody in the world on your side except the 5 people in your party, I should think you would be closer than just a group of mercenaries who fight on the same side. You've been to hell and back! Seriously...

4. Now for the hard part:  I'm unsatisfied with the way ToB turned out. In  SoA, the story is great for the most part. Even though you are forced to take a side in chapter 2, you have a lot of freedom in deciding what to do in almost everything else. But in ToB, the path is linear and you have very little control over the main events. You absolutely must kill the five instead of showing them the error of their actions and allowing them to redeem themselves. I can understand the need for an end game enemy like  Melissan, so that's fine, but just about everything in ToB feels very unsatisfactory in general. You are continuously misled by Melissan, and there's no way you can find out that she's misleading you.

Here's another example:  there's no way to prevent Saradush from falling and all of the Bhaalspawn from being slaughtered. I  guess in general, I'm looking for some degree of control in ToB; I  find this lacking in the unmodded version. If the protagonist can defeat an entire army sent to intercept him/her and kill each of the five, then it seems ridiculous that alternative solutions other than killing the five aren't options. Even Sendai expresses regret that we couldn't have worked together better, and I didn't have the dialogue options to stop her from killing herself.

Is there a mod that can change all these somewhat? I don't mind if the overall theme of the game is made less dark by this. There's enough darkness in ToB already as is. Even chapter 2 felt better than the events of ToB, despite your sister being kidnapped. I  can't deny that there's plenty of darkness in SoA  also, but it just felt different. I feel as if ToB is a completely different game rather than simply an expansion for SoA.

I'm sure there's a lot I  can't think of at the moment, but this is a good start at least.  Please try not to spoil the mod's story completely!  Aside from that, I will carefully consider every suggestion here.

Modifié par carnivorous, 21 novembre 2010 - 09:00 .

[polytope]

As regards the ugly cloak of mirrors graphic, there is an option in Sword Coast Stratagems item tweaks (you don't need to install any of the difficulty enhancing stuff if you don't want) to turn it off (I recommend this over the tweak from BG2 tweakpack, as that makes enemy spell protections basically invisible).



I was also a little disappointed with the plot of ToB (have the feeling the expansion was a bit of a rushed job), I recommend Wheels Of Prophecy by DavidW, which gives the player more choices in ToB and at least makes it possible to avoid killing Balthazar.



About romancing Nalia, sorry, never tried any such mod, though pocketplane forums might be the place to ask.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

If the story of ToB is to be improved, then yes, Wheels of Prophecy deserves mention, but one cannot really go far without taking a look at Ascension - in fact, most ToB mods (Wheels, Longer Road, Redemption...) have been at least partially inspired by this mod.
I've never tried any of the De'Arnise romances, but to my knowledge the readme always says very clearly whether or not a romance will extend to ToB.

[Carinna]

I've played the D'Arnise romance and it's very well done and also clears up the unanswered questions surrounding Nalia. That said, it does NOT extend into ToB. The author claims that eventually he/she might write a ToB extension, but do not hold your breath for this to happen (though I played it last year, so look at the mod again to be sure the extension hasn't happened - or at least isn't in the works - before passing the mod over). Regarding other Nalia romances, I'm only aware of one other one and it's reputed to be terrible (though I can't confirm this first hand). I don't believe it goes into ToB either (though again, I can't confirm this first hand).

Regarding mods that add more to ToB, I have a question about one myself. I've downloaded Longer Road, but have hesitated to install it as the readme is unclear about whether Ascension is required alongside it.   Is there someone who has installed it that remembers positively whether it is?

Modifié par Carinna, 21 novembre 2010 - 01:17 .

[Flamedance]

Carinna wrote...


Regarding mods that add more to ToB, I have a question about one myself. I've downloaded Longer Road, but have hesitated to install it as the readme is unclear about whether Ascension is required alongside it.   Is there someone who has installed it that remembers positively whether it is?

Ascension is required for the Longer Road. The Longer Road is an excellent mod, it's only downside being the main character is so badly overpowered it's not even funny anymore:P.

SPOILER: Don't enter Watcher's Keep level 3 before ToB if you want to redeem Irenicus.

[miss_daydream]

Flamedance wrote...

Carinna wrote...


Regarding mods that add more to ToB, I have a question about one myself. I've downloaded Longer Road, but have hesitated to install it as the readme is unclear about whether Ascension is required alongside it.   Is there someone who has installed it that remembers positively whether it is?

Ascension is required for the Longer Road. The Longer Road is an excellent mod, it's only downside being the main character is so badly overpowered it's not even funny anymore:P.

SPOILER: Don't enter Watcher's Keep level 3 before ToB if you want to redeem Irenicus.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Longer Road does not require Ascension (although there seems to be additional content if both are installed) because I have played LR (and I second both Flamedance's recommendation and the over-powered comment) but never Ascension. Redemption, of which Longer Road is basically the expanded version if I understand correctly, does require it.

Quick question about Wheels of Prophecy: can anyone who's played it recently comment on how bug-free it is? I played it a while ago and ended up with some really strange stuff happening. But I can't remember which version that was. I loved the idea and thought it would be a great mod if it worked correctly.

Modifié par miss_daydream, 21 novembre 2010 - 01:45 .

[Morbidest]

carnivorous wrote...

1. That said, there are some things in the game that I feel are unsatisfactory and that I would like to change. For example, I would like to go through SoA and ToB romancing Nalia. I'm looking for a Nalia romance mod out there, and I  know they exist, but I  don't know which one allows the romance to proceed in ToB (if any) and I  don't know which ones are considered better than the others. Does anybody have a Nalia romance mod that they feel is good?  I'm open to any Nalia romance mod suggestions.

You raise an interesting point that it would be nice to have more interaction with Nalia in ToB. I agree with Carinna that the Nalia mod for SoA is very well done and worth playing at least once, but has no carryover to ToB. Perhaps the problem is that ToB Nalia is the only major NPC that really changed from SoA to ToB and got vanilla dialogue to reflect it. She grew up (!) and is getting ready to take up her father's position and power and become one of the 6 rulers of Amn. IMHO this would make life very difficult for someone trying to write a new mod for ToB Nalia. The conflict between a maturing Nalia and the PC would not just be over whether he's going choose mortality over demi-godship, but also is he ready to settle down, quit the road, and become duke to her duchess. Successfully playing out this story would require a hell of a lot of writing ability and probably make for a very long mod, and require a new set of final choices for the PC. Quite a challenge for a "modder"  

[DMWW]

miss_daydream wrote...
Quick question about Wheels of Prophecy: can anyone who's played it recently comment on how bug-free it is? I played it a while ago and ended up with some really strange stuff happening. But I can't remember which version that was. I loved the idea and thought it would be a great mod if it worked correctly.

As far as I can tell it's working fairly smoothly now - certainly I'm not getting scads of reports of weirdness, which I was getting in the early beta. But if others are having different experiences, I'd like to know.

[Carinna]

miss_daydream wrote...

Flamedance wrote...
Ascension is required for the Longer Road.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Longer Road does not require Ascension ... Redemption, of which Longer Road is basically the expanded version if I understand correctly, does require it.

 :blink:So the answer is that everyone is just as confused as I am about whether or not it's required.  Obviously I could just install Ascension even if it's not really needed (I'm confused about why Redemption, which is the shorter version, should require it while the longer version does not?), however I have no desire whatsoever (in fact, I have a knee-jerk reaction against) installing ANY difficulty-enhancing mod.  I know most people on here will roll their eyes in incomprehension, but I'm just not so good a player that I need THAT much challenge.  All it would do to me would be to make me quit playing entirely our of boredom at the endless reloading I'd have to do.

So, is there some way to install Ascension - to get the benefit of playing the other plot-content mods that require it - and NOT install the enhanced difficulty part?

[miss_daydream]

Well, I have never had Ascension installed but have definitely finished Longer Road so it doesn't. From the readme:

BGII with the Throne of Bhaal expansion is required. Ascension is not required,
but I definitely suggest having it installed. It adds 'flavor' to LR.

So I'd say there's simply extra conversation related to the Ascension content. I believe the thing with the shorter version requiring it was that Ascension adds the character in question to the end-game of ToB anyway. So it is simply further conversations there whereas the Longer Road actually adds the character from the beginning of ToB and so doesn't need Ascension for him to be present. But seeing as I'm only going on random bits I've heard about Ascension, I could be way off.

@DMWW: thanks for that! I'll definitely give it a go next time around then.

Modifié par miss_daydream, 21 novembre 2010 - 06:53 .

[Flamedance]

I stand corrected on the Longer Road issue, Carinna. Ascension is not required. Apologies: i always mix up Redemption with Longer Road.

[carnivorous]

Carinna wrote...
:blink:So the answer is that everyone is just as confused as I am about whether or not it's required.  Obviously I could just install Ascension even if it's not really needed (I'm confused about why Redemption, which is the shorter version, should require it while the longer version does not?), however I have no desire whatsoever (in fact, I have a knee-jerk reaction against) installing ANY difficulty-enhancing mod.  I know most people on here will roll their eyes in incomprehension, but I'm just not so good a player that I need THAT much challenge.  All it would do to me would be to make me quit playing entirely our of boredom at the endless reloading I'd have to do.

So, is there some way to install Ascension - to get the benefit of playing the other plot-content mods that require it - and NOT install the enhanced difficulty part?

I agree Carinna. I  don't think I  need that much of a challenge either. I don't think I would be able to beat Ascension without a huge amount of reloading and a more ideal party than the one I  have in mind. To some extent, I just want to enjoy the story and interactions without micromanaging every crazy battle to perfection. I'm also looking for plot (not difficulty)  enhancement. Most of the increased difficulty battles in Ascension aren't listed as optional.

I've read through all of the suggestions so far. I don't exactly like the idea of taking Irenicus or Bodhi into the party. Keeping Balthazar alive is great, but it only avoids 1 out of the many major conflicts in the game. The fact is that most of the five still will die, whether or not there are extended dialogues before they fight you. Is there something that modifies the plot even more significantly?

At this point, I'm not sure whether I  should just finish SoA  and Watcher's Keep only, forgetting about ToB altogether. IMHO, SoA  was a great game from beginning to end, and I want to keep it that way.

Carinna wrote...

I've played the D'Arnise romance and it's very well done and also clears up the unanswered questions surrounding Nalia. That said, it does NOT extend into ToB. The author claims that eventually he/she might write a ToB extension, but do not hold your breath for this to happen (though I played it last year, so look at the mod again to be sure the extension hasn't happened - or at least isn't in the works - before passing the mod over). Regarding other Nalia romances, I'm only aware of one other one and it's reputed to be terrible (though I can't confirm this first hand). I don't believe it goes into ToB either (though again, I can't confirm this first hand).

Regarding mods that add more to ToB, I have a question about one myself. I've downloaded Longer Road, but have hesitated to install it as the readme is unclear about whether Ascension is required alongside it.   Is there someone who has installed it that remembers positively whether it is?

Morbidest wrote...
You raise an interesting point that it would be nice to have more interaction with Nalia in ToB. I agree with Carinna that the Nalia mod for SoA is very well done and worth playing at least once, but has no carryover to ToB. Perhaps the problem is that ToB Nalia is the only major NPC that really changed from SoA to ToB and got vanilla dialogue to reflect it. She grew up (!) and is getting ready to take up her father's position and power and become one of the 6 rulers of Amn. IMHO this would make life very difficult for someone trying to write a new mod for ToB Nalia. The conflict between a maturing Nalia and the PC would not just be over whether he's going choose mortality over demi-godship, but also is he ready to settle down, quit the road, and become duke to her duchess. Successfully playing out this story would require a hell of a lot of writing ability and probably make for a very long mod, and require a new set of final choices for the PC. Quite a challenge for a "modder" ../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png 

Which Nalia romance mod did you play?  Given what's been said, I'm fine with it not extending into ToB at this point. After all, I  should be expecting a lot of dialogue with Nalia anyways in ToB, even without the mod, AND assuming that I  actually play ToB again. Here are the 2 Nalia romance mods I found. Is yours one of these? (Ctrl +  f "Nalia"  at the second link)

http://www.pocketpla...=119&Itemid=118
http://www.sorcerers..._mods_npc_f.php

Or maybe it's neither of those, even though I  spent quite some time looking and as far as I  can tell, these were the only 2 that were ever made. Please post a link to the Nalia mod(s) that you used and found to be good.

Modifié par carnivorous, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:17 .

[Carinna]

carnivorous wrote...

Which Nalia romance mod did you play?  Given what's been said, I'm fine with it not extending into ToB at this point. After all, I  should be expecting a lot of dialogue with Nalia anyways in ToB, even without the mod, AND assuming that I  actually play ToB again. Here are the 2 Nalia romance mods I found. Is yours one of these? (Ctrl +  f "Nalia"  at the second link)

http://www.pocketpla...=119&Itemid=118
http://www.sorcerers..._mods_npc_f.php

Or maybe it's neither of those, even though I  spent quite some time looking and as far as I  can tell, these were the only 2 that were ever made. Please post a link to the Nalia mod(s) that you used and found to be good.

It was #1, the one at pocketplane.  I can't get sorcerers.net to load right now so can't see which that is.  If it's Arnel's original Nalia romance, it's not in Weidu so you want the one at spellhold studios instead if you decide to try that one (they converted it; here:
http://www.shsforums...-nalia-romance/
You might want to read that forum for the comments made about the mod.  I have not tried that one.

To be perfectly clear since I talked mostly about the one it was not:

The D'Arnise romance mod is the one I played - the one from pocketplane that you listed first.  It's very well done.

Modifié par Carinna, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:36 .

[carnivorous]

You're right. The second one is Arnel's. When you can get sorcerers.net to load, you'll see that there are 2 different Nalia mods. I think the first one is the unconverted Arnel version, while the second one is the converted one (because it says the second one is WeiDU), but please let me know if I'm wrong after the page works again.

But, there's no reason for me to try Arnel's mod anyways if you played the one at Pocketplane (unless of course Morbidest tried Arnel's mod and liked it).

Modifié par carnivorous, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

carnivorous wrote...
Most of the increased difficulty battles in Ascension aren't listed as optional.

It's the other way around. Only the Throne-of-Bhaal stuff is mandatory if you want the mod, every other battle upgrade is optional.
That said, I understand your decision completely. I'm not a big fan of this particular battle (series of battles) either.

The fact is that most of the five still will die, whether or not there are extended dialogues before they fight you. Is there something that modifies the plot even more significantly?

Try to understand their reason for fighting. They want the power for themselves.
If your aim is godhood as well, then there is a very obvious reason why they can't trust you (and why you can't trust them).
Same thing if you are a goody-two-shoes who wants to stop another evil god from rising.*
Only if your only aim is to get out of this whole mess relatively unscathed would there be any possibility for a team-up. But firstly I don't think they'd trust that sentiment, and secondly I don't think they'd respect it even if they believed it.

* This, on second thought, would possibly allow for an argument to actually ally yourself with one of them. If your aim is to weaken Cyric, then it would make sense to have a new God steal one of his portfolios. The only question is why you'd need to pick one of the worst mass-murderers you could find for this job (rather than say, Imoen?) and if the end result would actually be better, overall.

[oyzar]

Mass murerers? I dunno about you but in my playthroughs pretty much everyone would make any normal mass murederers seem like a petty comparison by the sheer amount of kills they have done.

Modifié par oyzar, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:14 .

[Morbidest]

carnivorous wrote...

You're right. The second one is Arnel's. When you can get sorcerers.net to load, you'll see that there are 2 different Nalia mods. I think the first one is the unconverted Arnel version, while the second one is the converted one (because it says the second one is WeiDU), but please let me know if I'm wrong after the page works again.

But, there's no reason for me to try Arnel's mod anyways if you played the one at Pocketplane (unless of course Morbidest tried Arnel's mod and liked it).

Like  Carinna I played the oldest one, the one where you can give Isaea "Toenail" his just reward. Never tried the other one.

[Carinna]

Morbidest wrote...

Like  Carinna I played the oldest one, the one where you can give Isaea "Toenail" his just reward. Never tried the other one.

Actually Arnell's is the oldest - it's pre-Weidu.  It only looks newer because someone converted it to Weidu after the d'Arnise romance mod came out.

But I take this to mean you played the one at Pocketplane.  No idea what happens in Arnell's - maybe he gave Isaea what was coming to him too.  The forum I linked to mentioned that he repeatedly spelled Isaea's name incorrectly so he must have mentioned him multiple times in the mod.

Maybe the chief distinguishing difference is this:  In the mod I played, the PC did NOT marry Nalia  (they got very intimate, but they didn't get married).  In Arnell's there is at least one path (maybe the only one, I don't know) where the PC and Nalia get married.    So was there an option for your PC to marry Nalia in the mod you played?

[Morbidest]

Nope. Something like that sounds pre-ToB. I played the pocketplane group project from 2007, not the one by Arnel or a 3rd one by Auren Aseph.

Modifié par Morbidest, 23 novembre 2010 - 04:35 .