173 réponses à ce sujet

[PauseforEffect]

Not so much hate it as was kinda disappointed. Yes, the terminator reference is hard to miss, but it loses its sinister looming when you realize it stays on its own side of the platform. Will give it credit for making me go WTF!?

Said it before, am going to say it again. Why did it not crawl across the platform and try to squash Shepard? For a construct that's taller than the list of complaints about it, you would think it could aim over Shepard's cover.

I guess it would have been an end boss taken more seriously if you had to move constantly to avoid being smacked while shooting at it. The majority of the fight could be done behind one side unless you dragged it out.

[Dark_Caduceus]

It wasn't much worse than the Geth Hopper's illegitimate son at the end of ME1, here's hoping the final boss in ME3 lives up to the awesomeness of the trilogy.

[Giggles_Manically]

Outside of Master Li and Darth Malak most end bosses in Bioware games are well weak.



Saren Cyber hopper- Baby Terminator- Archdemon (another dragon)- The Mother (another Broodmother).



Really the final bosses are pretty bland in Bioware games.

[Iakus]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Really the final bosses are pretty bland in Bioware games.

Bland is one thing.  Silly is something else.  Something much worse.

[Giggles_Manically]

iakus wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Really the final bosses are pretty bland in Bioware games.

Bland is one thing.  Silly is something else.  Something much worse.

True I headesked so hard I had to pick my space bar out of my forehead when I saw it.

Really a giant pulsating mass of screaming goo would have really been more scary and made more sense then baby terminator.
Plus I would prefer a scene where I just had to hold out against waves of Collector's and Husks which would have been much more fun.

[Sursion]

Because sad people with no lives love to complain about things all day. I have always thought the Human-Reaper made sense.

Modifié par Sursion, 23 novembre 2010 - 04:54 .

[Iakus]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

[True I headesked so hard I had to pick my space bar out of my forehead when I saw it.

Really a giant pulsating mass of screaming goo would have really been more scary and made more sense then baby terminator.
Plus I would prefer a scene where I just had to hold out against waves of Collector's and Husks which would have been much more fun.

Agreed on all counts.  Hold the Line would have made a far better "final boss"

[Giggles_Manically]

Honestly how scary would it be if you had to hold out for a long while to get the overcharge or radiation thing to go off but with an army of Collectors, Husks, etc coming after you all the while with a giant pulsating mass of melted humans in the background. And with limited ammo available to boot.



Like say hold out for 10 minutes and then run like hell to get out. That would have made a more awesome ending all things considered.

[atheelogos]

Aeowyn wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I saw a picture of a Reaper in the concept art and was like "WOW COOL", I was then spoiled the entire plot by reading that line about the human Reaper. I was angry and frustrated and much preferred the concept art of the Reaper actually looking like a Reaper but with flesh instead.

Edit:

Here on the left.

But then at the end scene when you see all the Reapers approaching the Milky Way galaxy they all look that same (Sovereign model).

So? The species being turned into the reaper is put into a Generic Reaper shell. It still works just fine. BTW my own theory is that the Reaper shell is based on the original organic species of the Reapers

Yeah that's my theory as well. I also have a theory that the creation of the Reapers and the beginning of its path to destruction is similar to the Quarian/Geth situation.

I have a feeling they did this to themselves and were not forced into it, but alas we may never know.

[GodWood]

Its powered by human juice.

[Undertone]

MassEffect762 wrote...

They should have made it as small as an ordinary human, would've made more sense to me.(in the form of a female, ha)

I was expecting more creativity from both the Reapers and Bioware.(i.e. it talking to you in part as many human/reaper minds/ seduction/mind-games)

That actually sounds pretty cool - something like the Dragon Age Desire Demon. It would have been awesome.

Thanks for sharing these concepts, I've never seen them before and the baby fetus as depicted in the art looks so awesome compared to the Terminator. I can't believe they didn't use it - it's grotesque, off puting, scary in all the good ways.

A conversation with a "Desire Demon" coming out from the baby fetus would have been so awesome. Mind tricks and trying to control Shepard ala Morinth style. I can see a biotic helping Shepard with mental resistance or something even.  And when that fails Hold the Line battle, having Thane providing sniper cover (or Garrus) for the rest of the team against huge number of husks etc. would have knocked all birds with one stone. Thane never got a proper role. Also Kasumi could have been hacking something to make things easier. Like locking doors to slow down the enemy.

[Rekkampum]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Outside of Master Li and Darth Malak most end bosses in Bioware games are well weak.

Saren Cyber hopper- Baby Terminator- Archdemon (another dragon)- The Mother (another Broodmother).

Really the final bosses are pretty bland in Bioware games.

Must disagree. Poorly inspired artistically, maybe, but not bland.

Modifié par Rekkampum, 23 novembre 2010 - 07:37 .

[Klimax]

I saw it and was slightly shocked. (Something like What the...) Concept was quite good.

But then I saw Neon Genesis Evangelion... maybe inspiration?

Modifié par Klimax, 24 novembre 2010 - 10:20 .

[GodWood]

NEON GENESIS EVANGELION WAS FILTH!

/knee jerk reaction

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

iakus wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

[True I headesked so hard I had to pick my space bar out of my forehead when I saw it.

Really a giant pulsating mass of screaming goo would have really been more scary and made more sense then baby terminator.
Plus I would prefer a scene where I just had to hold out against waves of Collector's and Husks which would have been much more fun.

Agreed on all counts.  Hold the Line would have made a far better "final boss"

Interesting idea.  Another Bioware game had something like this, but I'm not sure the actual way they implemented it would have translated well to ME2.



Anyway:

I'm sure Bioware tried experimenting around with different ways of putting the final boss battle together.  If you make it more difficult than the rest of the game up to that point, you haven't given the player time to prepare their tactics and squad - that's why we got Horizon (intro to the Collectors + friends) and the Collector Ship (introducing us to the platforms and their ship/base architecture.)  By the time you made it to the Base, you knew enough about the Collectors to know what weapons to bring, what tactics worked, what kind of enemies you'd be seeing, etc. 

The reason the boss didn't seem difficult is that you've spent a non-trivial amount of time fighting Collectors, and some time fighting large boss-level enemies (YMIRs, Praetorian, Colossus.)  In other words, ME2 was training you so you could take on the human reaper and win.  Clever game design, that.

[TheNexus]

I just finished my third play through and, honestly, not once during the human reaper fights did I think of terminator. Great, so now the next play through when I get there I'll have the T2 theme stuck in my head...ugh....



Anyway, the first time I saw it I was like "uh...ok?", but I still thought the fight was cool and I guess "reaping" the human colonies with the collector's help brought everything together... but for whatever reason I was waiting for the Illusive Man to come out and be like "yo, I'm a reaper" or something.



I'll stick with the "this is just the middle part" theory that everyone has and hope that the loose ends will tie up nicely in ME3.

[Iakus]

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Anyway:

I'm sure Bioware tried experimenting around with different ways of putting the final boss battle together.  If you make it more difficult than the rest of the game up to that point, you haven't given the player time to prepare their tactics and squad - that's why we got Horizon (intro to the Collectors + friends) and the Collector Ship (introducing us to the platforms and their ship/base architecture.)  By the time you made it to the Base, you knew enough about the Collectors to know what weapons to bring, what tactics worked, what kind of enemies you'd be seeing, etc. 

The rest of the Collector base was okay.  I'd have preferred more of it, but what we got was good.  It's the Reaper Larva that's the real sticking point.  It's not that it was easy or tough.  And I think I know wht they were trying to acomplish, as far as storyline.  It just the end result was embaressingly lame in execution.

The reason the boss didn't seem difficult is that you've spent a non-trivial amount of time fighting Collectors, and some time fighting large boss-level enemies (YMIRs, Praetorian, Colossus.)  In other words, ME2 was training you so you could take on the human reaper and win.  Clever game design, that.

I'd argue that the amount of time we spent fighting Collectors was trivial.  But that's a topic for another thread  My problem isn't difficulty, it's in n ot being able to take the Larva seriously as a boss.  It's appearance, the necessity of fighting it, EDI's apparant encyclopedic "speculation" of it, none of it made me take it seriously as as story villain or a "final boss"

[VampireCommando]

I hated it, not because it was a human reaper, but just a reaper in genral, just like i hated harbinger, and sovergin, i mean they try to take over my galaxy, try to kill my shepard, not to mention they are kind of the pinical of evil.

[Ieldra]

(1) Sovereign was awesome and badass - remember the speech at Virmire, or how it just rammed that turian cruiser out of the way? Harbinger is a two-bit villain in comparison.

(2) The whole human Reaper / Harbinger thing was designed around cheap shock effects instead of an actual believable antagonist.

But mostly this:
(3) The reasoning for humans being ground to paste for "genetic material" is such a load of bullsh*t that it instantly catapults me out of the game. Then it's followed by extracting the "essence of a species" - which is like a hammer coming out of the screen to disintegrate the little suspension of disbelief that might have been left intact. My, what didn't I curse at that biggest load of utter crap a purported SF story has ever dared to serve me. It's an insult to the whole genre, a B-movie type conglomerate of nonsense and cheap horror such as it will have the eternal place of dishonor in my personal list of the most memorable failures in SF history. And Bioware having the sheer gall to expect me to take that crap seriously is something I better not start commenting on.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 novembre 2010 - 03:09 .

[onelifecrisis]

Ieldra2 wrote...

But mostly this:
(3) The reasoning for humans being ground to paste for "genetic material" is such a load of bullsh*t that it instantly catapults me out of the game. Then it's followed by extracting the "essence of a species" - which is like a hammer coming out of the screen to disintegrate the little suspension of disbelief that might have been left intact. My, what didn't I curse at that biggest load of utter crap a purported SF story has ever dared to serve me. It's an insult to the whole genre, a B-movie type conglomerate of nonsense and cheap horror such as it will have the eternal place of dishonor in my personal list of the most memorable failures in SF history. And Bioware having the sheer gall to expect me to take that crap seriously is something I better not start commenting on.

I find this curious. People can swallow all sorts of garbage with no problem, then one particular bit of garbage is suddenly identified as garbage. I'm guilty of it too, sometimes. But I find it curious that we - people - have this quirk.

Take you for example. You apparently have no problem with FTL travel/communication, space wizards, undetectable signals that control people's minds, aliens that are all humanoid and breath the same atmosphere and speak the same language, thermal clips, medigel, omnigel...

...and yet, for some reason, "genetic paste" is something you can't buy?

Why is it that some things break our suspension of disbelief while we let others (lots of others) slip by?

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 24 novembre 2010 - 03:38 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Oh hell, again with the "once you accept anything not real, you have to accept everything unreal" nonsense.

[onelifecrisis]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

"once you accept anything not real, you have to accept everything unreal"

That is distinctly not what I said. Every story has an internal logic that should be upheld. Mass Effect breaks its own internal logic on a number of occasions, but the mentioning of genetic paste is not one of them. It's unscientific jargon garbage, but it doesn't break the plot. The same can be said for everything else I listed. So why is genetic paste different from the other things on my list?

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 24 novembre 2010 - 03:55 .

[SpectreSeven]

Wasn't the human reaper made into a terminator because the proper look would've gotten the game banned in a lot of countries? (on right)




Also, here's an image which shows how the HR would've been inserted into the standard Reaper form.

Modifié par v1K0, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:10 .

[Ieldra]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

But mostly this:
(3) The reasoning for humans being ground to paste for "genetic material" is such a load of bullsh*t that it instantly catapults me out of the game. Then it's followed by extracting the "essence of a species" - which is like a hammer coming out of the screen to disintegrate the little suspension of disbelief that might have been left intact. My, what didn't I curse at that biggest load of utter crap a purported SF story has ever dared to serve me. It's an insult to the whole genre, a B-movie type conglomerate of nonsense and cheap horror such as it will have the eternal place of dishonor in my personal list of the most memorable failures in SF history. And Bioware having the sheer gall to expect me to take that crap seriously is something I better not start commenting on.

I find this curious. People can swallow all sorts of garbage with no problem, then one particular bit of garbage is suddenly identified as garbage. I'm guilty of it too, sometimes. But I find it curious that we - people - have this quirk.

Take you for example. You apparently have no problem with FTL travel/communication, space wizards, undetectable signals that control people's minds, aliens that are all humanoid and breath the same atmosphere and speak the same language, thermal clips, medigel, omnigel...

...and yet, for some reason, "genetic paste" is something you can't buy?

Why is it that some things break our suspension of disbelief while we let others (lots of others) slip by?

In this case, I was already extremely annoyed that Bioware tried to evoke a misplaced sense of moral outrage by using those horror elements. Add the fact I'm particularly bothered by biology failures, exacerbated by the fact of mystical concepts being invoked, and that it would've been a matter of ten seconds to find a better explanation. It was just the last straw. 

As for your other examples:
(1) FTL travel is all but necessary for an interstellar plot. No sense to complain about it.
(2) Interspecies sex makes me groan, but too many people want it. Can't argue with that design decision.
(3) Biotic powers have series issues, but at least they're cool and fun. They're also built on the basic building block of the ME universe, the "mass effect". Only "magical" powers like Reave and Dominate fall out of the pattern and shouldn't exist.
(4) Humanoid aliens might just be rather common, as long as the similarities are restricted to basic morphology. See (2) for things that go too far.

@v1K0:
What exactly is it that would have gotten the game banned?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 novembre 2010 - 06:08 .