173 réponses à ce sujet

[LiquidGrape]

It's stupid. That's why.

You know what would've been less stupid, and whole lot more cool?



Their original design.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 06 janvier 2011 - 12:15 .

[Crimmsonwind]

Vaenier wrote...

WHY? why necro this when the same topic is on the top of the first page?

HERE if you cant find it in the first 5 topics on the front page of the forum...

Why keep bumping the thread if you're so angry about me necroing it?

[The Smoking Man]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

WAFFLES!!!

Don't you mean carrots?!?!?1/?!/1/1/!1111111//

[Matt VT Schlo]

I like the concept that a Reaper based the look on whatever species they consume, but the first reaper just looked cool as hell, and we've seen the human cyborg look time and time again

[Pedro Costa]

Terminator design isn't new, scary or intimidating. It's clichèd, overused and boring.

That and apparently Reapers, a race so superior to organics to a point which we couldn't understand, actually are made of organics by organics in some rock in the middle of the galaxy and what is, apparently, so beyond our comprehension, is just that they don't want to kill everyone and actually will take a few to a superior plane of existence; (from the Reapers point of view, of course, but nonetheless) there's hardly anything difficult to comprehend in that!

Not only this, their seeming core is shaped like the species the genetic material was inherited from. Sadly, we didn't see something even remotely similar to it in either Sovereign or the Dead Reaper.



Basically, it's immersion-breaking for me.

[Jamin101]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

FTL travel, artificial gravity, and biotic powers all originate from a single basic conceit of the setting -- which is in the name of the game/setting:  MASS EFFECT.  They're not garbage, they're part and parcel of the "what if?" of the speculative fiction setting we're dealing with.

So if EDI had said that the humans were turned into genetic paste using a MASS EFFECT field then you'd have no problem with it?

No.  "With a mass effect field" is just using a different kind of blender.  Using a blender won't turn lead into gold any more than using a spoon will. 

onelifecrisis wrote...
This "Mass Effect" is never explained. It's just a slap-on label that BW use to explain magic. Might as well just call it Magic Effect.

Have you actually read the explanations of element zero, dark energy, the mass effect, and biotics?  It really seems that you haven't.   There's some far-edge theoretical physics behind the concept once you accept the basic conceit of element zero and generating "dark energy". 

onelifecrisis wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The biology and genetics errors were glaring and basic, and could have been avoided by having an intern spend a few days on Wikipedia and then double-check everything.

Do you know something about genetics? If so, please share

Example one:  Bioware, please stop telling us how genetically diverse humans are, when the opposite is actually true.  Look it up.  We're just not.  ****** sapiens has been through at least one and probably two "genetic bottlenecks" in our history as a species that really trimmed down our overall genetic diversity.

I suppose you have the genetic history of turians, asari etc. Humans are not diverse on earth, for all we know asari may have one chromozone. What you said isnt bad biology its your oppinion

[Jamin101]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Redcoat wrote...

Several problems I have with the Reapernator:

- The whole "using humans' genetic material" makes no sense. It's like taking thousands of blueprints for various houses, mashing them up into one big pulply mass, and then using that to build a really big house. Just coming up with alternate reasons off the top of my head for why the Collectors/Reapers are abducting humans, they could have been using their pulpified organic material to build the organic components of a Reaper (maybe the Reapers are incapable of synthesising organic material on their own). Or maybe they needed to use the combined brain power of thousands upon thousands of humans to "run" a Reaper. Either of these strikes me as being slightly more plausible than using genetic material.

- The visual design. The "Reaper larva" should have looked like something grotesque and horrifying. Something that anyone would call an abomination. Instead, what we have is a big metalli skeleton, which is neither horrifying nor grotesque.

- The boss fight itself. The boss doesn't do anything except slam the platforms and fire off a few shots now and then. And you don't do anything to fight it except "attack its weak point" which is oh-so-conveniently called "WEAK POINT." Just a really underwhelming boss fight. I agree with the others who said that a "hold the line"-style battle.

Yes.



I would have been much more intrigued and shocked by that. TBH I have no idea why they didn't go with this concept, because it just looks like it would totally fit in with the Mass Effect aesthetic (actually, it looks like something you'd find in the first game, which isn't at all a bad thing). It'd also make a lot more sense, and it'd be a lot more believable than having a big metallic skeleton lumbering after you (and don't get me started on the "it's sci-fi, so how could it be more believable" defense).

you have no idea why it wasnt used? look at how retarded americans become when you mention abortion. imagine the outcry when a mother sees her 14 year old blowing up a giant fetus made of humans

[Jamin101]

harmonator62 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

I believe the hatred was derived based on poor execution than design, albeit I to did not fancy the human skeleton concept either. That being side, in Mass Effect Sovereign remained the universal threat, the immense opposition rapidly and desperation attempting to gain control of the Citadel. We combated and defeated Saren and a subsequent shell utilized by Sovereign in his most vital moment. Prior to fighting Cyer-Saren, Sovereign remained virtually indestructible as it tore asunder both the Alliance and Citadel fleets with relative ease. The Human-Reaper did not every impose such a threat nor sense of intensity. This is primarily due to our interference. Sovereign was not something we could combat directly and it readily displayed its power for all to witness. Case in point, Sovereign was a plot element. The Human-Reaper was merely an enemy and one we could destroy. Even had the battle been mind numbingly difficult, the overall conclusion remains the same. Shepard could destroy it with guns. It was therefore, not imposing nor dangerous even by the wildest stretch of the imagination.

In addition, I would argue its relevance to the plot. Why would the reapers abruptly decide to construct a new reaper based upon a human? Was their intent to frighten humanity? Had they concluded we were the most threatening species due to the destruction of Sovereign at the hands of Shepard? The bewildering science made things all the more perplexing as EDI specifically states the amount of necessary human "goo" would reach well into the millions. Therefore, the Collectors would have to eliminate more than half the humans in space. This is in sharp contrast to the subtle invasion tactics utilized by the Reapers previously. I suppose one could surmise they are in a desperate scenario however it all seemed stretching the bounds Mass Effect had established. If the Collectors were a legion and the necessity amount of captured humans was fewer and/or the captured species was not restricted to humans, I would foresee the events as logical.

Honestly, if I was at the helm of the story. I would have trashed the Human-Reaper as a boss, developed the Collectors more and used the Collector General as the principle draw. This would be accomplished by him either attempting to aid Shepard in secret to prevent the construction of the aforementioned Reaper (read: not human, simply unknown) and upon the conclusion said General would have been our grand finale boss in encounter.

Of course the aesthetic design being cartoonish certainly did not do the Human-Reaper any favors.

^This explains my displeasure with the "human-reaper."

I was disappointed with the fact that reapers changed from just technology in ME to a bio-tech nightmare in ME2. Although we knew that the Reapers harvested biological lifeforms, the process of how biological life was tranformed into energy. I figured they "absorbed" the electrical energy in all life. The fact that Reapers are bio-tech really threw me off. Suddenly all of Soverign's bravado about how biological life's inferiority becomes just egotistical ranting rather than objective observations from centuries of experience.

In ME, humanity and the Reapers could be no further apart. ME2 brings them much, much closer. I'm fine with blurring the lines between good and evil, but don't blur the lines between the ultimate threat to the universe and the ultimate savior.

so genociding humans and turning them into electricity is believable but paste is not?

Also when you learn what soveriegn is in me1 isnt it then you learn their bio-tech...I mean it is a talking space ship with tentacles

[Crimmsonwind]

Jamin101 wrote...
you have no idea why it wasnt used? look at how retarded americans become when you mention abortion. imagine the outcry when a mother sees her 14 year old blowing up a giant fetus made of humans

Hey hey hey. That's not fair. We aren't all crazy in America. Don't lump me in with those simpletons.

Also I'd like to point to Dead Space. There is an entire enemy type based on zombie space babies. Nobody seems to have a problem with me shooting those things. Also, technically, it's an M-rated game and this hypothetical 14-year old should only be playing this game if his parents or guardians decided he was mature enough to handle the content. But that's a whole other issue. On topic, there have been situations with baby-based enemies before, and they seem to have gone over well enough.

Modifié par Crimmsonwind, 06 janvier 2011 - 07:27 .

[Bluko]

I asked the same question as the OP awhile ago.

It made sense to me that the intial phase of a Reaper would be like the species it came from. And if you have any concept of scale it really shouldn't be much of an issue for "how does it become a giant squid?". It probably slowly moprhs into that general shape as it's being built up. I'll admit I intially thought Reaper's built prefabricated bodies and simply "uploaded" the minds of the indoctrinated into them. Honestly that probably would have been better way to go then "melting" us into a Reaper.

I dunno the first time I saw the Human Reaper I was a bit shocked since I really expected there'd be a fight with the Collector General. Really I thought the Collectors were just capturing humans to make an army of Husks and or wipe us out. I think that's the main problem. Nobody expected the final boss to be a Reaper, and it really wasn't the good kind of suprise either. Also as a Boss it's kind of underwhelming since you basically  just shoot it in the eyes. I mean I don't think it's even capable of killing you.

While Saren wasn't the greatest final Boss, the fact he can jump around and fire volleys of rockets does make him somewhat dangerous. Pretty sure I got killed once or twice by Saren, and nearly everytime I fight him he'll at least manage to knock a team-mate out. The Human Reaper Larva fires a beam which takes out your shields and that's about it. If you get killed, you get killed by a Collector. But I don't think I've ever had any diifficulty with the last portion of the Suicide Mission.

I guess most people just feel fighting a giant evil robot is a bit too cliche for a game ending.

Modifié par Bluko, 06 janvier 2011 - 10:12 .

[Kristofer1]

when I first saw the human reaper I nearly threw the game in the trash. Its pathetic and pointless. It is worse than the "ammo powers" and the lack of squad mates wearing armor...

[Xeranx]

Jamin101 wrote...

you have no idea why it wasnt used? look at how retarded americans become when you mention abortion. imagine the outcry when a mother sees her 14 year old blowing up a giant fetus made of humans

You know what's funny is that regardless of my views on abortion this wouldn't have made me want to boycott Bioware.  This would have given me that piece they wanted to instill in the player.  I would have felt hatred (not that I hate people who have abortions...have to make the statement otherwise people jump to conclusions) towards the Reapers.  I would know I have to kill this thing that somewhat resembles a human being that also happens to be an infant.  My colonist/war hero Shepard would be crying as she takes its life.

People have to learn to take risks.  Movie makers do it all the time and they still, often, churn out crap after crap.  Though Bioware would have still gotten a lot of flack from me if the whole game remained as it exists now up until the point we face that creature.

[The Unfallen]

 What if we had fought the final product instead? What if that becomes the final boss of ME 3? If it is, I hope they do something SICK, like this:


A human-reaper can be done correctly, and be done badassly.

[JuicElawl]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I get the feeling some of you don't realize that the shape of the reapers (the ones that look like Sovereign) are based on a now-extinct life form (or rather, a now-"ascended" life form) that the reapers gunkified out in a previous cycle.

it kinda looks like the reapers are based on giant fleas, then.

i kinda thought the human reaper did look dumb and impractical, i  guess the reapers were more into appearance than functionality. the concept of using human organics to build it was cool, tho.

[JuicElawl]

double post

Modifié par JuicElawl, 07 janvier 2011 - 12:21 .

[The Unfallen]

LiquidGrape wrote...

It's stupid. That's why.

You know what would've been less stupid, and whole lot more cool?



Their original design.

Not too late, they could still use these designs in ME 3, you never know.

[Darth Death]

Well the human-reaper was in its infant stage, so appearance may vary upon completion.

[harmonator62]

Jamin101 wrote...

harmonator62 wrote...

^This explains my displeasure with the "human-reaper."

I was disappointed with the fact that reapers changed from just technology in ME to a bio-tech nightmare in ME2. Although we knew that the Reapers harvested biological lifeforms, the process of how biological life was tranformed into energy. I figured they "absorbed" the electrical energy in all life. The fact that Reapers are bio-tech really threw me off. Suddenly all of Soverign's bravado about how biological life's inferiority becomes just egotistical ranting rather than objective observations from centuries of experience.

In ME, humanity and the Reapers could be no further apart. ME2 brings them much, much closer. I'm fine with blurring the lines between good and evil, but don't blur the lines between the ultimate threat to the universe and the ultimate savior.

so genociding humans and turning them into electricity is believable but paste is not?

Also when you learn what soveriegn is in me1 isnt it then you learn their bio-tech...I mean it is a talking space ship with tentacles

I never said that paste wasn't believable (in fact it is a very plausible explaination), but it seems to counter-act the Reapers' claims of superiority over organics. In the Battle of the Citadel Saren spoke of how his implants created
a link between organics and machine, as if one did not exist at the time. The 'turn-organics-into-our-blood' process that ME2 presents is a change in course for the mood of the franchise. No longer is the space opera about organics rising up against dominating machines, but newer races fighting against extinction from a more advanced race that has biological origins.

It's true that ME1 does not directly contradict the human-paste of ME2, but the implied characterists of the Reapers were that they were fully machine, not partially organic.

[The Unfallen]

That Yellow Bastard wrote...

 What if we had fought the final product instead? What if that becomes the final boss of ME 3? If it is, I hope they do something SICK, like this:


A human-reaper can be done correctly, and be done badassly.

[goatman42]

I didn't really have that big of an issue with human reaper. Sure I got a good laugh when I first saw it but then I was like, "well that makes sense." Its not the deal breaker for me that it was for a lot of people.

[ajw]

Personally I didn't mind the Human Reaper that much. I suspect that the Reaper would have assumed the more traditional cuttlefish/squid shape of other Reapers as time went on with the 'Human Reaper' as the ships central core structure. Alternatively the Reaper could have grown to have a humanesque head and upper body while its lower body assumes the more normal tapering hull of a Reapers main body.



As for melting organic beings into a biometallic sludge - that could be used to fuel some sort of nanotechnology which is whats actually building the Reaper. There was nothing present beyond the support/feeder tubes that suggested that Sovereigns replacement was being constructed any other way.