66 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

I dont support Harrowmont since he just wuvs the system that encourages infantacide, keeps people in poverty unless they want to be murderers, suicide troops, or noble hunters.

Bhelen may be a right up little bastard, but Harrowmont is a worse person for believing in a system that oppresses and exploits all of society.

Tell the assembly that Cairidin/Branka told you to pick the new king, as a DC and you get:
Harrowmont: WHAT? why would a Paragon tell someone to pick who has no idea about this sort of thing?

While I think that Bhelen is going to do some brutal things, they will do good things. Harrowmont does brutal things because outdated dogma and tradition dehumanize a segment of society.

Harrowmont with the Anvil IS a tyrant, and kills people left and right.


If its not obvious by now, Bhelen Aeducan for King.

As an addendum:
The casteless baby quest is the one thing that always breaks any of my warden's from helping Harrowmont.
He would see that innocent baby tossed out into the deep roads to be made into a darkspawn football, and not even care since to him its not even a person simply due to who the father was. Nice guy my arse.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[Zjarcal]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Tell the assembly that Cairidin/Branka told you to pick the new king, as a DC and you get:
Harrowmont: WHAT? why would a Paragon tell someone to pick who has no idea about this sort of thing?

He says that to any Warden that worked against him (who says that Caridin/Branka allowed them to pick the king), not just a DC.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:58 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Zjarcal wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Tell the assembly that Cairidin/Branka told you to pick the new king, as a DC and you get:
Harrowmont: WHAT? why would a Paragon tell someone to pick who has no idea about this sort of thing?

He says that to any Warden that worked against him (who says that Caridin/Branka allowed them to pick the king), not just a DC.

Nope I tried that as a DN, and City elf and he never said anything at all.
That line only triggered for my DC, so unless I hit a bug that never pops up.

The only line he gets usually is where he says:
I would like to believe Oghren, but the warden here is known for working with Bhelen and cant be trusted.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Tell the assembly that Cairidin/Branka told you to pick the new king, as a DC and you get:
Harrowmont: WHAT? why would a Paragon tell someone to pick who has no idea about this sort of thing?

HA!
Like he knows what the f*** he is doing. He is such a master of politics, economic development, and knows exactly what his people need.

Though to be fair to him, his sheer incompetence and epic fail can be blamed on the Assembly whom we know he bends his back to. It is quite surprising how idiotic they can be. 
 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:06 .

[Zjarcal]

I just got that dialogue as a city elf Giggles:







For a closer look.

[Sarah1281]

According to the toolset if and only if you admit that the Paragon doesn't give a damn who takes the crown you get one of these four lines:

If DN not!Bhelen: Why would a Paragon entrust an exile and a murderer with such a weighty decision? This is utterly ridiculous! (Outraged)

If not!DN not!Bhelen: The Grey Warden knows nothing about us! Why would a Paragon entrust someone like this with such a weighty decision? This is ridiculous! (Outraged)

If not!Harrowmont: Why would a Paragon trust someone who knows nothing of us with such a decision? This is preposterous! (Outraged)

If double agent: We've argued in these chambers for too long. The will of the Paragon is that the Grey Warden decide.



Now, both of Bhelen's lines make sense. Since you've been exiled as a kinslayer, it really makes little sense for a Paragon to let you pick the next king. If you are not his sibling then you spent around a week in Orzammar trying to learn the politics and probably aren't a master of it and the rest of the time in the Deep Roads.



Harrowmont's line makes sense for the same reason it does when Bhelen says pretty much the same thing...unless you're a DN. This is one of those times it's annoying Harrowmont has maybe half the specialized DN-only lines that Bhelen does. If I were a DN working for Bhelen that, for whatever reason, felt the need to announce that the Paragon doesn't give a damn about what's going on then I'd be peeved that he said I knew nothing about them but other than that...and besides, the fact you were honest about it points to a lack of understanding of dwarven politics anyway, in my book, even if you can totally get away with it because everyone's sick of arguing.

[Zjarcal]

It really is kind of silly to say that the Paragon doesn't care about who is king. Were it not because everyone is sick of arguing, I doubt you could've gotten away with it.

[Sarah1281]

Zjarcal wrote...

It really is kind of silly to say that the Paragon doesn't care about who is king. Were it not because everyone is sick of arguing, I doubt you could've gotten away with it.

It also lends credence to Bhelen/Harrowmont's claim that you have no idea what you're doing. It would serve you right for picking that if they thank you for the crown and get back to arguing.

[Zjarcal]

Heh, that would've been great. After all the crap you did, now the decision is out of your hands and you have to wait until they settle it by themselves.

What would you envision would've happened in that case? Bhelen getting the throne by force (as he sort of implies in the dialog after the coronoation)?

Modifié par Zjarcal, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

Easy:



if you want a "good" ending, vote for Bhelen.



If you want a "bad" ending, vote for Harrowmont.

[bleetman]

Zjarcal wrote...

bleetman wrote...
Dare I ask how he came about that spiffy armour? I want one

Improved Atmosphere mod

The armor set is called "Paragon Armor" (Branka also has it). You get a set for yourself once you finish the Paragon of her Kind quest.

Ah, neat! Thanks. I'd always thought Improved Atmosphere was a mess of compatability issues. Hrmm.

[Sarah1281]

Zjarcal wrote...

Heh, that would've been great. After all the crap you did, now the decision is out of your hands and you have to wait until they settle it by themselves.

What would you envision would've happened in that case? Bhelen getting the throne by force (as he sort of implies in the dialog after the coronoation)?

Probably. While I never actually do this, the toolset claims that you can get little status reports on how much support both candidates have throughout the campaign.

PC: How is the election looking now?
At this point, they're stone for stone. I wouldn't put any coin on the outcome.
Bhelen still has the edge, but after the latest Proving Harrowmont picked up a few more supporters.
Well, Harrowmont has many loyal supporters, but the whole Dace House just turned against him.
Well, Harrowmont's still holding his main supporters, but the whole Helmi House just turned against him.
Bhelen's gained ground recently, but Harrowmont's recent announcements caused a real flurry. He's back in the running.
Harrowmont started to pull ahead, but Bhelen got a huge surge of support when he announced Jarvia's death.
After the preliminary voting, it looks like Harrowmont has a narrow edge, but Bhelen's been buying support right and left. 
Bhelen has a solid lead in the preliminary voting, but Harrowmont's trying to disqualify a number of his supporters.
It's still up in the air, though. One big surprise, and it could go either way.

Basically, it seems that if you throw all your weight behind Harrowmont then he barely has an edge while if you support Bhelen he has a solid lead. Given that Bhelen's tone during the conversations is 'This is taking too long. Help me speed this up' while Harrowmont's is 'So I have no idea how to do this but this idea might inch me closer' I'd say Bhelen would most certainly take the crown but who knows who long it would even take.

About everyone saying Harrowmont is the moral choice...yes, Bhelen might have fratricidal and possibly patricidal tendencies as well as being involved with fraud and intimidation but given what he does to Orzammar versus Harrowmont just idly sitting by and watching it continue to die (and that's if he doesn't actively help destroy it like if he has the Anvil) how the hell does picking Harrowmont end up being the 'right' thing to do? 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I just picked Harrowmont in my Blood Mage playthrough, as I wish end up with an epilogue of total misery and ruin for everyone I come in contact with. It was difficult, since the character I'm playing is a complete psychopathic evil ****, and on the surface, Harrowmont seems more moderate, honorable candidate. But there are little glimpses, here and there, that hint at Harrowmont being less than shiny, so I had to go with them.

[ddv.rsa]

Sarah1281 wrote...
About everyone saying Harrowmont is the moral choice...yes, Bhelen might have fratricidal and possibly patricidal tendencies as well as being involved with fraud and intimidation but given what he does to Orzammar versus Harrowmont just idly sitting by and watching it continue to die (and that's if he doesn't actively help destroy it like if he has the Anvil) how the hell does picking Harrowmont end up being the 'right' thing to do? 

It isn't the right thing to do. But without metagaming there's no way to know how things will turn out. To look at things very simply, Harrowmont seems like the 'good' option and Bhelen the 'evil' option. At least at first glance.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 22 novembre 2010 - 08:35 .

[ejoslin]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
About everyone saying Harrowmont is the moral choice...yes, Bhelen might have fratricidal and possibly patricidal tendencies as well as being involved with fraud and intimidation but given what he does to Orzammar versus Harrowmont just idly sitting by and watching it continue to die (and that's if he doesn't actively help destroy it like if he has the Anvil) how the hell does picking Harrowmont end up being the 'right' thing to do? 

It isn't the right thing to do. But without metagaming there's no way to know how things will turn out. To put it simply, Harrowmont seems like the 'good' option and Bhelen looks like the 'evil' option. At least at first glance.

People say this, but I never saw Harrowmont as particularly good.  I saw dwarven society as a whole as pretty draconian.  i learned that the population was in decline because of the ongoing war with the darkspawn.  i saw that harrowmont didn't inspire much loyalty in his own men as far as action went.  And i saw Harrowmont as a traditionalist.

Harrowmot seems like a much nicer and more honorable person, but he struck me as most likely being a pisspoor king.

edit; he doesn't even promise to send you troops if you make him king -- only to put it before the assembly for a vote.  that was why my DN changed sides.  she knew how much influence Harrowmont had with the assembly.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 novembre 2010 - 08:37 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Bhelen is the better politician, I need a good politician not a good person.

Bhelen wins.

[mousestalker]

ejoslin wrote...
edit; he doesn't even promise to send you troops if you make him king -- only to put it before the assembly for a vote.  that was why my DN changed sides.  she knew how much influence Harrowmont had with the assembly.

This is why I usually support Bhelen. He may sound a little unhinged with his talk about 'the fulcrum of absolute evil', but he does promise fighters if he is king. Unless I'm playing a dwarf, my Wardens have no knowledge of who will be the better king. Most of them really do not care. They are there for the treaty. Bhelen isn't wobbly on the subject of fighting the darkspawn. Harrowmount is.

[TheLegendofWade]

Quill74Pen wrote...

My fourth playthrough on DAO is my first as a dwarf. I sure as heck hope Bhelen makes a helluva case to be king when she returns to Orzammar as a Grey Warden because, without metagaming, Terra's inclined to kill her younger brother. The freak framed her, after all! Terra once was a trustful person, but Bhelen changed all of that. Now, you lie to her and she'll go postal on you.
Quill74Pen

Terra is my female DN name...

You have my FDN name, and someone around here has a FDN that looks just like mine (similar hair color, similar hair style, and similar profile side view).

You'd think it would be easy to be original here.

Has anyone else named their FHN Boudica (Andraste being based off of a Celtic goddess that the female warrior Boudica worshipped)?  Sorry to go offtopic...

On topic, Bhelen is for the win.  He's a dick, but he gets the job done.

[Giggles_Manically]

I would avoid naming my Human noble Boudica.



That was a pretty nasty bunch of events that went out of control in Britain.

[Beaner28]

The fact that the 'right' decision seemed to be to support Lord Harrowmont only to find out it doesn't necessarily end well is what I love about Dragon Age. It really makes you think about your decisions. I just wish BioWare pushed the genre so we have some real consequences to the decisions and not just words read in an epilogue.

[TheLegendofWade]

I think supporting Bhelen was the only non-obvious "good" choice. Yet, at the same time, you learn through the criers and merchants that he is supporting a more loose caste system and is open to foreign trade.



But, who pays attention to that anyway? Yea, my first run through I supported Harrowmount. Haven't done it since.

[Zjarcal]

TheLegendofWade wrote...

But, who pays attention to that anyway? Yea, my first run through I supported Harrowmount. Haven't done it since.

I admit, I was guilty of this on my first playthrough. To be honest, on my first run I found DA to be an overwhelming experience, so at times I failed to remember things that had been mentioned or hinted. Hence why Harrowmont was my choice.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 22 novembre 2010 - 11:30 .

[Ryzaki]

I'm pretty much the opposite.I only picked Bhelen once. Haven't done it since.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 novembre 2010 - 11:32 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

TheLegendofWade wrote...

But, who pays attention to that anyway? Yea, my first run through I supported Harrowmount. Haven't done it since.

I admit, I was guilty of this on my first playthrough. To be honest, on my first run I found DA to be an overwhelming experience, so at times I failed to remember things that had been mentioned or hinted. Hence why Harrowmont was my choice.

On my first run, I picked Harrowmont, because of the character I was rping, who would naturally go for him. But that was the most painful decision I had to make on that run, cause I personally would choose Bhelen.

Though I admit, I did not predict that Harrowmont would be regressive. I knew he is a conservative (which is bad enough). With the anvil, he is regressive. Didn't surprise me, but I did not expect it.