124 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonia]

*offers Laidlaw a puppy*



Good question there, Psuedo. My biggest, biggest pet-peeve with Origins was managing my inventory, especially when I was crawling through the Deep Roads. It helped a little in Awakening and Warden's Keep having the storage.. but was always a bit annoying to trek all the way back to said storage box, drop stuff off, go back to what I was doing.. rinse and repeat. Maybe there will be less "junk" loot overall in DA 2 and I won't have to keep deciding if equipment is worth holding onto or not.

[Nerivant]

leonia42 wrote...

*offers Laidlaw a puppy*

Good question there, Psuedo. My biggest, biggest pet-peeve with Origins was managing my inventory, especially when I was crawling through the Deep Roads. It helped a little in Awakening and Warden's Keep having the storage.. but was always a bit annoying to trek all the way back to said storage box, drop stuff off, go back to what I was doing.. rinse and repeat. Maybe there will be less "junk" loot overall in DA 2 and I won't have to keep deciding if equipment is worth holding onto or not.

If I recall correctly, removing useless loot was part of them "streamlining" the inventory system.

[Apollo Starflare]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Will there be a place to keep said armor for us equipment hoarders?

Maybe, if you ask reallllllly nicely.
And are kind to puppies.

Please Mr Laidlaw sir, it would be awfully generous of you and your team to include somewhere we suckers for material goods could store our hard fought for/misbegotten/expensive store of purdy armor pieces and different rings of power. :innocent:

And I'm kind to my two delightful puppy dogs all the time! No matter how annoying they are! <_<

[Brockololly]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Stars are something like tiers, but whereas materials only affected base stats, stars account for special properties on the items and are more dynamic.

A 5 star ring for a mage might only register as 1 star for a warrior, were it giving you +magic and +mana. Sure, there's a very tiny reason a warrior might want more magic (magic resist, mostly), but there's LOTS of reasons a mage would want to push that stat up.

Ok, but will it be clear as to how the star ratings are being formulated? Like you said, maybe a ring is better for a mage than a warrior given it does X for magic and Y for mana, but will that specific blurb about why its been given that star rating be evident in the game? Or is that just something you'll figure out by being able to see the full stats on the given item?

[Seb Hanlon]

Brockololly wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Stars are something like tiers, but whereas materials only affected base stats, stars account for special properties on the items and are more dynamic.

A 5 star ring for a mage might only register as 1 star for a warrior, were it giving you +magic and +mana. Sure, there's a very tiny reason a warrior might want more magic (magic resist, mostly), but there's LOTS of reasons a mage would want to push that stat up.

Ok, but will it be clear as to how the star ratings are being formulated? Like you said, maybe a ring is better for a mage than a warrior given it does X for magic and Y for mana, but will that specific blurb about why its been given that star rating be evident in the game? Or is that just something you'll figure out by being able to see the full stats on the given item?

Bingo. Stars are for first-glance assessment; we've additionally tried to make the stats and effects of equipment and items more clearly and explicitly visible in the GUIs than they were in Origins.

[StingingVelvet]

The stars thing is fine in my opinion, and that comes from an "OMG DUMBING IT DOWN YOU JERKS!!" sort of old-school fan. As long as the same detail is there as before and it's a guide you can ignore it doesn't bother me at all.

Where it WOULD bother me is if the stars are so in-your-face you can't avoid them. For instance if see a ton of stars everywhere after a battle that would be annoying.

Modifié par StingingVelvet, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[hangmans tree]

DO I understand this right: loot scaling will be done on two levels scale - its material and "tier"?



I'd vote for my favorite system, if I could, where you can find the best armour in the game and fight the toughest monsters on your early lvls but with VERY slim chance of success...(unlike Oblivion that is).



So, my question is really this: will I have to reach certain level to begin finding really good stuff and for merchants to offer such?

[crimzontearz]

hangmans tree wrote...

DO I understand this right: loot scaling will be done on two levels scale - its material and "tier"?

I'd vote for my favorite system, if I could, where you can find the best armour in the game and fight the toughest monsters on your early lvls but with VERY slim chance of success...(unlike Oblivion that is).

So, my question is really this: will I have to reach certain level to begin finding really good stuff and for merchants to offer such?

I asked the same question earlier...no answer so far

I'm assuming it will be handled ala ME2 tho....scripted drops for the important stuff and merchant items alongside the other regular stuff

[Xewaka]

hangmans tree wrote...

DO I understand this right: loot scaling will be done on two levels scale - its material and "tier"?

As I understand it, gear only scales by tier, with materials defining looks.

[Blastback]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Will there be a place to keep said armor for us equipment hoarders?

Maybe, if you ask reallllllly nicely.
And are kind to puppies.

Well, it is practically a law that I hug every puppy I get a chance to.  Or it should be.

So please? 

[tmp7704]

hangmans tree wrote...

DO I understand this right: loot scaling will be done on two levels scale - its material and "tier"?

It sounds more like there's no "tiers" anymore -- what used to be tiers is just now utilized to provide different colour schemes for the armour, and the actual attributes are associated with the item directly, like you'd have "+3 dexterity" on armour piece in DAO.

If that's actually the case then wonder if it means loot no longer autoscales with the player's level, but instead you get pieces of certain power level based on how far the story has progressed.

[crimzontearz]

I think you are right TMP





All this points toward an Hybrid system between ME2 and DAo....let's hope it also means the introduction of NG+

[LexXxich]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Sure, there's a very tiny reason a warrior might want more magic (magic resist, mostly), but there's LOTS of reasons a mage would want to push that stat up.

Emphasis added. Does it means that magic resistance is now an innate derived stat? Or did you mistake it for mental resistance?

[axa89]

LexXxich wrote...
Emphasis added. Does it means that magic resistance is now an innate derived stat? Or did you mistake it for mental resistance?

From the Peter Thomas Gameplay thread:

What the stats give you has been rebalanced. I can say what bonuses currently are, but the what they are and how much they give could very well change by release.

First start with primary attributes. The primary attribute of a class gives a bonus to attack and damage. It's different for each class.

The attributes each give their own bonus to another property, trying to make it useful,but not necessary to everyone.

Strength - Warrior primary. Increases impact resistance (less likely to be knocked down by big blows).
Dexterity - Rogue primary. Increases critical hit chance.
Magic - Mage primary. Increases magic resistance.
Cunning - Increases defense.
Willpower - Increases mana/stamina.
Constitution - Increases health.

A lot of people may think "LOLWUT? Dex gives crit chance and Cunning give defense?" That's for balance reasons and they may get switched. Having your primary attribute give you attack, defense and damage all together would be too much of a good thing.

A Mage may get Cunning to boost his defense to avoid attacks. A Warrior may get Dexterity to increase his crits. A Rogue may get Strength so the little enemies won't knock him around so much. Balance work still needs to be done on numbers though.

Modifié par axa89, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:08 .

[Vena_86]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So the tiers of armor/weapons are totally gone now? Doesn't the whole star system basically approximate the tiers though?

So long as we can clearly tell what stats everything is, thats cool.

Stars are something like tiers, but whereas materials only affected base stats, stars account for special properties on the items and are more dynamic.

A 5 star ring for a mage might only register as 1 star for a warrior, were it giving you +magic and +mana. Sure, there's a very tiny reason a warrior might want more magic (magic resist, mostly), but there's LOTS of reasons a mage would want to push that stat up.

We will see how this turns out but I fear essentially this will reduce the fun of customization. Since the game tells you what setup is better than the other you dont feel rewarded for doing the right choices and using the most effective gear combination for you playstyle.

[Shepard Lives]

Vena_86 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So the tiers of armor/weapons are totally gone now? Doesn't the whole star system basically approximate the tiers though?

So long as we can clearly tell what stats everything is, thats cool.

Stars are something like tiers, but whereas materials only affected base stats, stars account for special properties on the items and are more dynamic.

A 5 star ring for a mage might only register as 1 star for a warrior, were it giving you +magic and +mana. Sure, there's a very tiny reason a warrior might want more magic (magic resist, mostly), but there's LOTS of reasons a mage would want to push that stat up.

We will see how this turns out but I fear essentially this will reduce the fun of customization. Since the game tells you what setup is better than the other you dont feel rewarded for doing the right choices and using the most effective gear combination for you playstyle.

I don't think it'll be quite as complex as you think.
I think the stars will just show you how useful the item is at the moment, not what the most effective item combination is. All in all, like DA:O, only more immediate (and with the more in-depth analysis still there).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Oops.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Bingo. Stars are for first-glance assessment;

Are you going to tell us how those star values are assigned?

And by ""tell us", I mean "show us the equation".

That the same items will have a different star value depending which character is looking at it (I wonder how that's going to work in the party inventory) is news to me, and that significantly muddies the water with regard to the star system.

[upsettingshorts]

You could only see the party inventory in DAO when a character was selected in the left panel. I imagine the left panel character will determine which star values appear in the right inventory panel.

And far from muddying the waters, I think the notion that different star values apply to different class uses actually makes more sense.  To bring up the Football Manager example again, a central midfielder might be a 3.5/5 star central midfielder, maybe a 2/5 star attacking midfielder, and a 1.5/5 star striker - depending on his stats as different positions call for different skills.  Seems kinda the same here, different item bonuses are more useful for different characters - especially at first glance, which is all the star system appears to intend to provide.

As far as when you're picking loot up off the ground or from some chest, maybe the stars simply don't appear at all?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:58 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You could only see the party inventory in DAO when a character was selected in the left panel. I imagine the left panel character will determine which star values appear in the right inventory panel.

Good point.  Though when shopping, who knows?

And far from muddying the waters, I think the notion that different star values apply to different class uses actually makes more sense.

 
Conceptually, perhaps, but it makes it harder for us to reverse-engineer the formula (or it requires that we do it three times).

Seems kinda the same here, different item bonuses are more useful for different characters - especially at first glance, which is all the star system appears to intend to provide.

I can see different item bonuses being useful for characters in different roles, but BioWare doesn't know in what roels we're using the characters.

Everything I know about the star system so far makes the star system obfuscatory, rather than enhancing accessibility.

[hangmans tree]

Still I don't get the exact meaning of this system, but I'm sure it will be described better later on...



I really dont like autoscaling. It cheapens the play, coz there is no rewarding feeling about obtaining high level loot. You will find the stuff eventually either way.



I for one am for effort in obtaining such loot and finding certain drops in according places. Something similar to mountains-dwarven loot predominant, forests - elven loot predominant; and so on. I know its very simplified example, but it serves to describe the idea.



And least you forget - medium armour. I hope there will be more balance in armour class departament since in DAO medium was almost non-existent.

[Sylvius the Mad]

hangmans tree wrote...

Still I don't get the exact meaning of this system, but I'm sure it will be described better later on...

I'm not.  That's why I keep asking.

[upsettingshorts]

Given how the class system appears to have been modified in DA:2 - classes specifically rebuilt along the lines of "what role do you want them to have" - such a star system seems consistent with that intent. Whether or not we play along is our own business, and if we choose not to, I imagine that we're doing so for advanced and/or intelligent reasons as experienced players and therefore the star values aren't really for us.

In the same fashion I ignore my assistant manager in FM telling me my 3/5 star loanee midfielder is a better option than the aging 2.5/5 star David Beckham, because the latter has specific attributes that my tactics exploit and the players around him are there to make up for his deficincies.  The AI can't know that, so it isn't reflected in the assistant's recommendations.

Good question about the star values when shopping though.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Shepard Lives]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You could only see the party inventory in DAO when a character was selected in the left panel. I imagine the left panel character will determine which star values appear in the right inventory panel.

Good point.  Though when shopping, who knows?

Just one thing, when shopping, DAO had a very useful button in the lower portion of the merchant's inventory that said "Compare items to" Sten/Leliana/Morrigan/whatever. I assume DAII will retain it.

Also, I think it's excessive to ask that the devs show us the equation to convert item usefulness into stars. By that same logic, all combat calculations should be shown to us too.

[Sylvius the Mad]

shepard_lives wrote...

Also, I think it's excessive to ask that the devs show us the equation to convert item usefulness into stars. By that same logic, all combat calculations should be shown to us too.

And they should.  Absolutely all the combat calculations should be available to us.

I'm appalled this isn't always the case.