40 réponses à ce sujet

[Count Viceroy]

Ahglock wrote...

But my science skills are lacking so who knows if that is plausible. 

Must it be though? Biotics themselves are made up.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:59 .

[Ahglock]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

But my science skills are lacking so who knows if that is plausible. 

Must it be though? Biotics themselves are made up.

I'd prefer if they put some science itot them.  I'm willing to suspend disbeleif on the premise that the mystic emelemtn zero that gives them all their tech also can mutate people and when controlled by a cybernetic device give people the ability to direct mass effect fields.  I mean tech already does it to some degree in the universe like the guns, the ships, the shields etc.

  So biotics when mutated are a natural source of eezo energy or whatever and implanted with a cybernetic device that is magnified and controlled to the point it does something useful.  Great, I can accept that.  But that doesn't mean I want it to break immersion in other ways.  I woudln't notice it most likely but science types might.  And since it would probably be failry easy to not break the extra layer of science with a little research I think the extra effort would be worth it. 

[Count Viceroy]

Yeah I guess, but at the end of the day, they are just game developers, they can only go so deep with their lore. There will always be holes. And mass effect does go out of its way a lot more than most games to explain its fiction.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:20 .

[Ahglock]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Yeah I guess, but at the end of the day, they are just game developers, they can only go so deep with their lore. There will always be holes. And mass effect does go out of its way a lot more than most games to explain its fiction.

Yeah, and I suspect they do what I'd want them to do.  Which is hire a scientist or two to fact check them and stick to sciience where it wont damage the enjoyment of the game.  My point at where enjoyment suffers may differ but its a judgement call and those will always differ. 

[Phaedon]

Ahglock wrote...

Yeesh. It hits with less force than a punch, tackle, or kick. They should up it more than a bit even with mass altering effects.

Oh and sorry for being from a superior country Sgt Lindog, I wont try to rub it in anymore.

S.I does not use pounds.

[Phaedon]

TelexFerra wrote...

How come when Shepard hits someone with a 1200 Newton force, Shepard himself/herself doesn't feel that force?

I am sorry, but that's like saying that if you hit someone in the abdomen, you'll hurt as much as he does. Yes, the same amount of force would be applied in both objects, but "feeling" it or causing damage is completely different.

Not that it's relevant anyway, biotics change the space around their enemy, they don't hurt them directly.

[xentar]

Insufficient data here. Area, duration, acceleration, other properties of the field?

And, by the way, as long as there's atmosphere, biotic fields can hurt semi-directly as well by producing shockwaves.

[gadna13]

Double posted, oops.

Modifié par gadna13, 24 novembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[gadna13]

Ahglock wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

Well, I've done some internet investigation, apparently that would be enough to accelerate a 200lb or 90 kg person, a muscular soldier in light armor up to 13.3 meters per second squared - so that's more force than gravity, at 9.8 m/s ^2.

Also, consider weight lifting a 270 pound force, and how hard it would be to fight that.  Then imagine that same amount of force hitting you in, say, the abdomen.

Well I weight lift and can bench near 270 pounds so this is why it seems
less than impressive to me.  Sure I can lift a 200lb person to get them
off the gorund defeating the evils of gravity for a short time, heck I
can squat 2 of them or leg press 5 of them.  Yet I don't see me throwing people across a room.  Since I generally avoid fighting I'll probably never find out.

I think Landon Frost must be right about it negating your mass with the push.  It would explain the distance thrown on top of the meager damage inflicted. 

I haven't taken a physics course in 3 years, so I could be a bit off here.

But anyway, force is something is applied over time. Force = mass X acceleration. So using the example above,
1200N = 200lb(90KG) X m/s^2.
Now, alocormin found that this meant the acceleration equaled 13m/s^2. So that means, that over 1 second, 1200N is able to accelerate 200lbs to a speed of 13m/s or 29.8 mph.

So sure, you maybe able to lift a 200lb person, but if they hit you at a speed of 29.8 mph, I think you'd be in pain.

[Mallissin]

Alocormin wrote...

Well, I've done some internet investigation, apparently that would be enough to accelerate a 200lb or 90 kg person, a muscular soldier in light armor up to 13.3 meters per second squared - so that's more force than gravity, at 9.8 m/s ^2.

To take it a step further, if this is the Lift biotic and the force is applied over a second, then the person would be 3.5 meters (11 feet) in the air.

If it's Slam, then we assume there's a second 1200 Newton force applied after the Lift, which would be 1.3 Gs or the equivolent of falling 4.75 meters (15 feet) in 3.5 meters (11 feet).

How much damage this would cause depends a lot on the material on which you're landing. Dirt is fairly soft, even clay is forgiving, but the metal deck of a space station will probably break a few bones.

[Praetor Knight]

According to NASA ~50G Force is fatal
http://en.wikipedia....ples_of_g-force

[PiEman]

Ahglock wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

Well, I've done some internet investigation, apparently that would be enough to accelerate a 200lb or 90 kg person, a muscular soldier in light armor up to 13.3 meters per second squared - so that's more force than gravity, at 9.8 m/s ^2.

Also, consider weight lifting a 270 pound force, and how hard it would be to fight that.  Then imagine that same amount of force hitting you in, say, the abdomen.

Well I weight lift and can bench near 270 pounds so this is why it seems
less than impressive to me.  Sure I can lift a 200lb person to get them
off the gorund defeating the evils of gravity for a short time, heck I
can squat 2 of them or leg press 5 of them.  Yet I don't see me throwing people across a room.  Since I generally avoid fighting I'll probably never find out.

I weight lift too. Now, imagine being hit by a 270lb steel ball, in the stomach, while standing up. It should probably kill them in one hit, IMO.

Another way of looking at it: Most cannon balls used in the age of Gunpowder were anywhere from 6-20lbs. They were smaller, and always killed what they struck. Lifting 270lbs from a starting point of 0 while on your back may not be much trouble, but try having someone throw the bar at you from across the room. Even if you could catch it, it will knock you on your ass. Physics says so.

[PillarBiter]

it's pretty easy.



900N = 900 kg x m/s²

If you weigh 90 kg, you will acelerate at 10 m/s², that's about earth's gravity.

[xentar]

PiEman wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

Well, I've done some internet investigation, apparently that would be enough to accelerate a 200lb or 90 kg person, a muscular soldier in light armor up to 13.3 meters per second squared - so that's more force than gravity, at 9.8 m/s ^2.

Also, consider weight lifting a 270 pound force, and how hard it would be to fight that.  Then imagine that same amount of force hitting you in, say, the abdomen.

Well I weight lift and can bench near 270 pounds so this is why it seems
less than impressive to me.  Sure I can lift a 200lb person to get them
off the gorund defeating the evils of gravity for a short time, heck I
can squat 2 of them or leg press 5 of them.  Yet I don't see me throwing people across a room.  Since I generally avoid fighting I'll probably never find out.

I weight lift too. Now, imagine being hit by a 270lb steel ball, in the stomach, while standing up. It should probably kill them in one hit, IMO.

Another way of looking at it: Most cannon balls used in the age of Gunpowder were anywhere from 6-20lbs. They were smaller, and always killed what they struck. Lifting 270lbs from a starting point of 0 while on your back may not be much trouble, but try having someone throw the bar at you from across the room. Even if you could catch it, it will knock you on your ass. Physics says so.

This highlights the issue: the force value is fairly meaningless. If it's delivered in a fist-sized field, it'll be a strong punch. If it's distributed uniformly over the area of the body, it might not even knock one down. If it's bullet-sized, such forces might not even be possible because it'll just rip through without  achieving the desirable deceleration levels.

Don't take these numbers too seriously. They've already miscalculated rotational gravity in the Citadel wards in ME1, so, science in the ME universe, while being interesting and actually unusually following certain common principles, is riddled with scores of factual errors and a number of inconsistencies. If those were corrected, ME might as well become one of the more sophisticated sci-fi settings outside books.

[the_one_54321]

Pounds and Newtons are the wrong units. Force does not cause much of anything. It is energy and momentum.

If you're talking about 270lbf what you need to think of is standing on a flat surface and then someone places a 270lbf ball in your hand. What would happen to you if the floor wasn't there?

This is a transfer of energy and lbf is the wrong unit to consider it in because of the very odd way you need to imagine it's effects.

[Amfortas]

so... I thought doing this was more interesting than the problem I was solving... I considered the force as a percussion (an instantaneous force) applied with an angle of 10º and modelized the person as a 80 Kg sphere. The percussion is applied at the equator of the sphere.

The resulting velocity is: v = 12.41i + 2.60j (m/s), about 28mph in module. That's the initial speed the body has after the percussion, now it's only a matter of solving the subsequent movement considering only gravity and drag.