228 réponses à ce sujet

[Gashie]

Perhaps I'm not the only one who thinks this, and I understand I may not be the first to share similar thoughts.

If ME3 has the multitude of story variations that it aspires to be, then as a player who has recently and rather thoroughly experienced the ME and ME2 titles to the end, I hope that the decisions I've made and invested in being a Paragon and Idealist pays off in some kind of epic culmination of smooth vanilla milkshake goodness.
I'm gleefully imagining Shepard and Co. fending off the impossible odds with the help of the "friends" he/she has made along the way, for example:


- The return of the Rachni
- The Council finally seeing the "error" of their ways, and a return of the Destiny Ascension (or alternatively similar grandiose fleets) in the probable upcoming war.
- The Alliance and Cerberus throwing aside their own agendas (whatever those may ultimately be) to fight alongside each other
- Liara, the New Shadow Broker, using her resources to gather her network for a common cause
- Zaeed, re-taking and re-aligning the Blue Suns (and other merc corps to help in Shepard's cause)
- The Geth and the Quarians doing the improbable and putting aside their differences and doing the same, with exemplary models from Tali and Legion in their time serving with Shepard.

...and perhaps many more. That's right, a majority of the species in the galaxy against those metallic chucks of seafood way past their expiry date! 

I'll be totally impressed if somehow, the most minute of decisions which we have made and probably forgotten about in ME or ME2 has a snowball effect on the upcoming turn of events in the third of the trilogy. 

In the Paragon perspective it would be like doing the good deed and getting the payoff in the most unexpected of ways. Commander Shepard (in this particular perspective) has done everything in his/her power to unite the races in the push for intergalactic peace. The man/woman has risked life and limb for the galaxy, and it would be nice for him/her to finally see the decisions he/she made come to a positive conclusion against the Reapers.

I personally have every confidence in the development and writing team at Bioware giving the players the option of possibly the most spine-tingling, hair-raising Paragon speech that Shepard is ever going to make in ME3! (Bias opinion and suggestion here: Jennifer Hale give me the chills again and seal the deal for the Femshep fans as an alternate one of two choice cover in the Ultimate Mass Effect 3 Collector's Edition! Your portrayal of her voice and character is fabulous!)

It goes so aptly with his/her given name: Shepard. The one who would lead the "sheep" to a common cause, a common goal against a species who seem to favour total annihilation and/or transformation of everything that is not their own or within their control.
Yep, so that's me painting the galaxy in rainbow after the dark!  Perhaps not the most realistic thing to hope for. It might never happen...or will it? Time will tell.

My Shepard has made the decisions. So, how would you like your ultimate hero to be rewarded?


P.S. Bioware, thank you for making this awesome game, bought ME2 first, but got so sucked into not knowing what was going on so much with the story that I was compelled to buy ME1 and restart/continue my ME2 career from there; best decision I made and what a ride!

[Dave of Canada]

I'd want my Paragon to see the devastation he caused by being too idealistic, I want to see planets burn and entire people get indoctrinated. Though he'd win and the galaxy would be at peace (with everybody praising Shepard), I'd like to know that the galaxy suffered for my choices.



On the other side of the spectrum, I want my Renegade to be the ultimate hero in terms of stopping the Reapers. A lot less damage but with a more fragile universe in the end.

[GodWood]

What Dave said

[Count Viceroy]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd want my Paragon to see the devastation he caused by being too idealistic, I want to see planets burn and entire people get indoctrinated. Though he'd win and the galaxy would be at peace (with everybody praising Shepard), I'd like to know that the galaxy suffered for my choices.

On the other side of the spectrum, I want my Renegade to be the ultimate hero in terms of stopping the Reapers. A lot less damage but with a more fragile universe in the end.

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I agree with Dave.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 23 novembre 2010 - 06:12 .

[AdmiralCheez]

I get the feeling my 100% paragon save will end in butterflies and rainbows as well. However, I am under the impression that while paragons will have a massive cross-species alliance behind them, renegades will get some serious tech advantages. After all, they buddied up with Cerberus and kept the Collector base.

Whether or not you defeat the Reapers probably has little to do with what moral path you've chosen, but it will affect how. And, assuming the Reapers are indeed defeated and half the galaxy isn't in ruins, paragons will leave behind unity and understanding, while renegades will have secured human dominance for good.

EDIT: of course, paragonism backfiring on you is welcome as well.  Seriously, in real life, following your heart all the damn time doesn't work out that well.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 23 novembre 2010 - 06:14 .

[-Skorpious-]

Since Mass Effect is a space opera, chances are the scenario you described above will be one of several endings in ME3. However, I would actually like to see a "realistic" ending where your choices (what factions you decided to support, the status of the Council, the genophage cure and so forth) have unexpected consequences.

WARNING - FALLOUT NEW VEGAS SPOILERS BELOW

Now getting to the F:NV spoilers. One of the aspects I loved most about NV is the fact that entire factions, settlements, and even individual characters are based on multiple factors rather than a one major decision. For example, the town of Goodsprings (a small settlement that serves as the games tutorial) will flourish if New Vegas is made independent, but if the Courier (the pc character) sides with the NCR (the closest thing the Wasteland has to a government and also, arguably, the closest to a "good" aligned faction) the town will fall into financial ruin due to heavy taxes. This is but one example of a seemingly positive decision that can have less than satisfactorily results for a player who typically prefers to adhere to the higher of the moral extremities - the game has several instances of such occasions.

END SPOILERS

Getting back on topic, I would like to see Bioware incorporate a similar policy when structuring the ending/epilogue of ME. Supporting the rewriting of the Geth could lead to the Geth wiping out a small colony of humans who decided to settle on the outskirts of the Perseus Veil, letting Balek escape could lead to the destruction of Alliance outposts, ect. Although I seem to be picking on the decisions and outcomes of idealistic paragons, that doesn't mean I want to see the "realists" (aka renegades) get all the success. Renegade choices such as supporting a war between the Quarians and the Geth could lead to strained resources, thus, a renegade Shepard is unable to receive the full benefits each side has to offer due to the two factions fighting each other over resources, planets, and other potential  targets of interest.

It would certainty add a touch of realism to the game while also adding replayability.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 23 novembre 2010 - 06:39 .

[DebatableBubble]

I would LOVE to see a cross-species alliance (Geth, Rachni, and Krogans, oh my!) but it would be interesting to see some repercussions, too.

[luakel]

Gashie wrote...

- The Council finally seeing the "error" of their ways, and a return of the Destiny Ascension (or alternatively similar grandiose fleets) in the probable upcoming war.

I agree with all your points except for this... I want (and completely expect) the council to be just as stubborn as ever up until the moment I have to save them from a Reaper for the second time. Maybe even after that; this is a group of people that has been proven wrong by Shepard multiple times, literally owes their life to Shepard's personal decision, has no evidence against what Shepard has told them, etc. They're a bunch of blind, stubborn morons. But that's fine, since if it was a good idea to let all the morons die, we'd have a lot less people here and I wouldn't be one of them.

Plus I just want Shepard to be able to use "Ah Yes" when it's getting near the end of the game, nice way to relieve the tension of taking on a few hundred nigh-invulnerable space squids.

This might even be a situation where being a Renegade helps more. If it's an all human council because the old one died, they might not mind Shepard's Cerberus affiliation and might cut a deal to get at all that collector tech from the base. Whereas if Shepard's gone completely Paragon, the old Council will just see someone who's allying with the geth, krogan, and rachni, has a very powerful semi-sentient warship, is developing a genophage cure and trying to bring together the disadvantaged races of the galaxy, and even has cybernetic implants... i.e. Saren 2.0. If the Council survived originally, they should be the absolute last people to rally behind Shepard, with what we've seen from them so far.

@Skorpius: doing a Fallout-styled ending would be awesome, especially cause it would give all the VAs one final encore to finish their characters' stories! It would be a great way to touch on alot of the smaller choices Shepard made that might not impact the main plot as heavily. And you could have different ways that the choices impact each other; like, if you give research on the genophage (or even a cure) to the krogan to get them on your side, the post-war situation will be alot different if Wrex is in charge instead of Wreav.

[Count Viceroy]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Whether or not you defeat the Reapers probably has little to do with what moral path you've chosen, but it will affect how. And, assuming the Reapers are indeed defeated and half the galaxy isn't in ruins, paragons will leave behind unity and understanding, while renegades will have secured human dominance for good.

I honestly don't want the human dominance to be the only ending associated with the renegade way of doing things. My shepard for example, fight for the same stuff the paragon shepard does but without the naive idealism that would normally hold such a shepard back. Fighting fire with fire. I don't want to be shoehorned into a pro cerberus corner just because I prefer the red options.

[Dave of Canada]

luakel wrote...

I agree with all your points except for this... I want (and completely expect) the council to be just as stubborn as ever up until the moment I have to save them from a Reaper for the second time. Maybe even after that; this is a group of people that has been proven wrong by Shepard multiple times, literally owes their life to Shepard's personal decision, has no evidence against what Shepard has told them, etc. They're a bunch of blind, stubborn morons.

I'm actually fairly certain the Council believes Shepard, they just wouldn't support Shepard's accusations because it would cause mass panic and that's actually something you'd want to avoid at a moment of crisis.

We already know the Salarians are working against the Reapers (from Mordin).

[snfonseka]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd want my Paragon to see the devastation he caused by being too idealistic, I want to see planets burn and entire people get indoctrinated. Though he'd win and the galaxy would be at peace (with everybody praising Shepard), I'd like to know that the galaxy suffered for my choices.

On the other side of the spectrum, I want my Renegade to be the ultimate hero in terms of stopping the Reapers. A lot less damage but with a more fragile universe in the end.

^ This and I am wondering what will hapen to my Paragade Shepard.

[GodWood]

It worries me theres fans of this game who actually want their paragon decisions to result in a complete fairy tale ending.
I hope Bioware ignores them.

mrsph wrote...
The setting just isn't as cynical as the Dragon Age one.

Unfortunately.

Modifié par GodWood, 23 novembre 2010 - 07:01 .

[Rekkampum]

I have a feeling that there will literally be multiple endings and ways to defeat the Reapers, given the magnitude of the game. Atleast, there better be (*winks at Casey Hudson*) or I'm going to be disappointed.

[snfonseka]

GodWood wrote...

It worries me theres fans of this game who actually want their paragon decisions to result in a complete fairy tale ending.
I hope Bioware ignores them.

mrsph wrote...
The setting just isn't as cynical as the Dragon Age one.

Unfortunately.

Thats why I still believe that DA is better in story vise than ME.

[GodWood]

snfonseka wrote...
Thats why I still believe that DA is better in story vise than ME.

Despite prefering ME's setting and lore I have to agree.

[luakel]

Dave of Canada wrote...

luakel wrote...

I agree with all your points except for this... I want (and completely expect) the council to be just as stubborn as ever up until the moment I have to save them from a Reaper for the second time. Maybe even after that; this is a group of people that has been proven wrong by Shepard multiple times, literally owes their life to Shepard's personal decision, has no evidence against what Shepard has told them, etc. They're a bunch of blind, stubborn morons.

I'm actually fairly certain the Council believes Shepard, they just wouldn't support Shepard's accusations because it would cause mass panic and that's actually something you'd want to avoid at a moment of crisis.

We already know the Salarians are working against the Reapers (from Mordin).

But there is no moment of crisis. I can understand not acknowledging the Reapers right after the Citadel attack, but it's been 2 years. Things have been mostly rebuilt, the political situation is quieter after the initial change of putting a human on the council, and... the Council's doing nothing. They're even minimizing the Geth war, which would provide a great excuse to start building up the military forces. Instead, all we get is more security checks when entering the Wards. I guess the Council could be doing all this in secret and just not telling Shepard due to his association with Cerberus, but some slight acknowledgment would have been nice. More of a "we're preparing, but you're not cleared to know anything more than that" attitude, instead of reiterating everything being fed to the public.

The idea of the Salarians (and the other individual races) doing their own thing seems all too likely. I'd love to be on some plot mission to locate something essential to fighting the Reapers, and find out that the STG (or some other elite group, like a good asari commando unit for once) has already beaten Shepard there and is a few steps ahead. Like how the Thanix cannon was reverse engineered from Soverein by the turians; the races could each be doing their own things to prepare and Shepard just doesn't know about them. But based on the bureaucracy the Council is mired in, they seem unable and unwilling to deal with any threat in the manner Shepard would want them to, or to support Shepard's efforts in more than a symbolic manner. So I guess it's off to negotiate a truce between the quarians and geth instead...

GodWood wrote...

It worries me theres fans of this game who actually want their paragon decisions to result in a complete fairy tale ending.

It's all about balance. I doubt a fairy tale ending is in the realm of possibility, but I bet there'll be an ending where Shepard can win without having to justify the means with the ends too often, if at all (though it should be very hard to get, nothing like the SM). And renegades get an equal chance to get their perfect ending, though it should be a bit easier to get since a renegade Shep would be more willing to do whatever it takes to win, and may actually save more lives in some cases because of it.

[ReiSilver]

I too am hoping for a BIG payoff for paragons and I'll tell you why.

My first play through of ME1 I had no idea if saving the council would allow sovereign to get through. I sat there watching the screen and thinking... what do I do? That's when, what can only be described as heart-felt, courage, determination and heroism just won through and I said "Not today, enough civilians have already died, no one else gets left behind today!" and it payed off. It was like being a hero in a comic book being faced with a sadistic choice and taking the third option and saving everyone.

It was heroic and glorious and damn it felt GOOD.

At the end of the day Mass Effect is a game about being a big-god-damn-hero, some people like to play the anti-hero who 'had' to hurt other people along the way but others like to play a (for lack of a better term) true hero. I want ME3 to give me that same thrill I felt in the first, of the character I've gotten to know over 3 games pulling off something glorious against all odds. Sad things may happen along the way but for the ending I want that hero feeling.



( for an example of that feeling 1:57 of this from the Dr Who Episode The Doctor Dances "Just this once, everybody lives!")

[Gashie]

GodWood wrote...

It worries me theres fans of this game who actually want their paragon decisions to result in a complete fairy tale ending.
I hope Bioware ignores them.

I think you've misread my intentions. The beautiful thing about the ME universe is the very ability for you to step into the shoes of the protagonist and mould the story to your liking within the given parameters. In such a case I (personally) think it's justified, although unrealistic, to expect a "complete" fairy tale as it is to expect a towering renegade figure domineering and having a vast influence over the galaxy, or a mix of the two.

The best conclusion would of course being Bioware giving equal effort into giving the Paragons, Renegades or the Paragade's lust for closure in their own forms throughout the course of ME3 or its epilogue. This of course delves into so many other production factors like time and resources, and whether they would tighten the grip making the story more linear to a specific vision or as formerly stated, making it more lax to achieve a vision of the player making the story what it is. And this is just the story portion of the game.

What Bioware decides to do or how they choose to prioritise the development of ME3 is entirely their choice. But you know what, at least they do listen to their players.

So in this case I am bias, in that I believe all possible outcomes and options are good, so long as Bioware allows that to happen (meaning to say, it is coded in), as everyone should live with the consequences they've made, whether or not those outcomes tailor to or culminate in the exact way one expects it.

I've worded my original post to never allude that I've had a preference for either, merely stating that as a Paragon Shepard, it is a viable spectrum to consider. I also never alluded that there would not be losses along the way, but then again I also did not mention specifically that I did not hope everyone of the major characters lives. 

I actually do enjoy everyone's opinions and responses thus far, but I would never go so far as to be "worried" over other fans' of this franchise's opinions or hopes for ME3, in whatever form they've chosen to word it.

Then again, name me a game that's perfect in all its forms. So it goes back to having a semblance of solution to this. And the first step would be options. Options are good no? Fairy tale or otherwise. The perception of how this space opera should "logically" end up has the possibility of stifling creative avenues, which in turn could lessen the possibility that Bioware keeps surprising us in rewarding us with the unexpected. In this case I would probably class a complete fairy tale epilogue as being one of them.

[Mercuriol]

I hope Earth gets shot to bits in the paragon ending. That and angry raiding Krogan. Just to show that there isn't a perfect ending and that the best way isn't always being the goody two-shoes either.

[Dave of Canada]

I think Godwood's opinion is justified, though. We've only seen Paragons receive pat on the backs and encouraged for doing the things they do, they also happen to receive more content in Mass Effect 2 as a bonus. Everything a Renegade does is scolded at, foreshadowed to be stupid and loses out on content.

Discussions on the forums always seem to sway in favor of Paragons that those of us who consider ourselves more Renegade in our approach of the game are left bitter and angry, "we" are doing the hard decisions to complete the mission but the Paragon isn't doing anything and gets the same results.

A Paragon can't expect everything to go right at all times, they take far too many risks but all of them pay off in the end with barely any consequences. The ONE time I can think of a Paragon getting a slap on the wrist and it's relatively minor is the Elnora portion, though you can't even kill her if you missed the 1 second prompt.

It creates a sense of resentment, we (as in people who do Renegade choices) feel like if we're being cast aside as Bioware's second thoughts. Why bother playing Renegade in Mass Effect 1 if the Mass Effect Default only has maybe one or two differences than what a Renegade playthrough would look like? Why bother killing whats-his-face if it means I lose out on extra dialogue?

This isn't the first we've heard of the happily-ever-after Paragon ending, it certainly won't be the last but we've grown rather tired of the rose colored glasses viewpoint the Paragon has. Why even offer choice if one leads to a bad ending and the other leads to a good ending? Both sides should have their ups and downs.

Edit:  I hope that made sense, I was busy playing Dragon Age and typing out a word every 20 seconds.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 23 novembre 2010 - 08:03 .

[GodWood]

Gashie wrote...
I actually do enjoy everyone's opinions and responses thus far, but I would never go so far as to be "worried" over other fans' of this franchise's opinions or hopes for ME3, in whatever form they've chosen to word it.

I have noticed that the majority of ME's fans tend to be paragons and I've noticed a lot seem to favour:
~ having the fairy tale ending
~ Wanting the game to make them feel like a badarse not someone who can lose.
~ Minimal casualties (eg, most (from what I've noticed) are against mandatory companion deaths)
~ No sacrifices (why are people against going out with a blaze of glory?)

This 'worries' me becauce this can effect how Bioware continues to shape the game's universe.
I'd prefer a realistic, cynical setting to an idealistic 'good guys win' one.

Then again, name me a game that's perfect in all its forms. So it goes back to having a semblance of solution to this. And the first step would be options. Options are good no? Fairy tale or otherwise. The perception of how this space opera should "logically" end up has the possibility of stifling creative avenues, which in turn could lessen the possibility that Bioware keeps surprising us in rewarding us with the unexpected. In this case I would probably class a complete fairy tale epilogue as being one of them.

A realistic/cynical setting does not limit one's choices or endings (look at Dragon Age) it simply means despite one's choices you can't have everything go perfectly. 

[ReiSilver]

GodWood wrote...
This 'worries' me becauce this can effect how Bioware continues to shape the game's universe.
I'd prefer a realistic, cynical setting to an idealistic 'good guys win' one.

I would ask what game you've been playing then. Mass Effect seems pretty in on 'good guys win' since the start, with only one 'wham episode' with Virmire, where it didn't matter whether you were paragon or renegade. I'd expect this to continue; there will be set backs but being paragon or renegade will affect how you are able to do things for the most part. Renegades will be able to push for human supremacy while paragons fight to protect all species, having high ren/para scores will allow for better outcomes .
But then I'm an idealist who finds grim-dark cynicism to be unrealistic

Modifié par ReiSilver, 23 novembre 2010 - 08:40 .

[GodWood]

ReiSilver wrote...

GodWood wrote...
This 'worries' me becauce this can effect how Bioware continues to shape the game's universe.
I'd prefer a realistic, cynical setting to an idealistic 'good guys win' one.

I would ask what game you've been playing then. Mass Effect seems pretty in on 'good guys win' since the start, with only one 'wham episode' with Virmire, where it didn't matter whether you were paragon or renegade.

And thats been a problem with how the ME games have executed themselves.
The setting is quite dark and quite realistic its just whenever Shepard enters the equation that the moral idealism takes the wheel. 

I'd expect this to continue; there will be set backs but being paragon or renegade will affect how you are able to do things for the most part. Renegades will be able to push for human supremacy while paragons fight to protect all species.

A paragon can push for human supremacy and a renegade can fight to protect all species.

But then I'm an idealist who finds grim-dark cynicism to be unrealistic

I'd argue thats not idealism at all but more out right denial

[Count Viceroy]

But then I'm an idealist who finds grim-dark cynicism to be unrealistic

I'd argue thats not idealism at all but more out right denial

Unrealistic ? What planet do you hail from again?