97 réponses à ce sujet

[philiposophy]

I use Slam on my vanguards. By doing this I can access it from the start of the game instead of investing into Shockwave to access Pull. It's a neat little power - short cooldown and surprisingly effective.



I think it only really works on Shepard though. I never give Miranda any points more than the default one point, and she uses Warp and Overload the most.

[AntiChri5]

I've never argued this was the slam only thread.

You are constantly insisting i am missing the point or "not contributing to the essence of the thread" by disagreeing with the effectiveness of Slam as a power.

I pointed out facts why people choose slam over other bonus powers, something you can't grasp.

I can grasp the reason well enough. It is easier to get then pull. That is the only valid reason you have yet to put forth.

You blindly hold to the fact that there is nothing that slam gives you over pull. I can't change that fact.

How about providing evidence to the contrary? Point out a function Slam fulfills that Pull does not.



You have constantly been making absurd assertions about my "blindness" and "inability to see" and how you "can't change that fact" yet you have yet to mention a single thing Slam does that Pull doesn't.

According to the posts if several other people in this thread, Slam is simply what you can get until you have the points to get Pull. Since Slam does not do anything Pull is incapable of, explain to me how it is anything but "My first Pull".

[Soahfreako]

I use slam cause it's funny as hell. Though on harder run throughs I use stasis now cause it's OP.

[LeonBrass]

Since I am the OP I will say this:

I am perfectly happy to have all these debates about other powers, this is precisely why I said: "and reasons why I should reconsider" my choice in the lead off post... so go at it gang! Just keep it polite.

Slam is not the best power, that is not my point.  I chose slam because I require all my  builds to have the fastest cooldown I can get. and I was sick of spending  points where I didn't want them.  I discovered other advantages as I played with it -- and a few problems too.

Finally, I am in the "it just looks cool and fun" camp.   I am not a hot shot, I get into a lot of trouble due to bad moves during fights and slam is my "get the f***  off of me!" button.  I totally s***k at melee, so mobs of husks, varens, and Fenris mechs give me fits.  Slam saves my sorry a88.

[AntiChri5]

We have been over the instant cast issue. There are both negative and positive aspects to this so it supports neither of our Pull nor Slam.

Points in Shockwave is a problem with the class itself, not Pull. Besides, there are plenty points to go around. Losing Cryo Ammo is no great pain when so many squadmates have their own ammo powers. Having counterpoints you refuse to acknowledge is not "blindness".

And you have yet to even attempt to counter my point about Pull keeping enemies out of cover and completely exposed for up to 12 seconds (almost always fatal) while Slam often simply puts them back into cover.



I have never said that Reave is the "best" power, i am not some Reave fanatic i have only ever used it on one character.

[AntiChri5]

Finally, I am in the "it just looks cool and fun" camp.

This is a perfectly acceptable reason to favour the power.

[AntiChri5]

You asked for something that slam does over pull. I gave you a reason, you dismiss it. This isn't productive and you know that.

No, you raised a point and i raised a founter point. This is how debate works. Now you raise a point. If i cannot refute it, i am forced to accept your claim.

Points in shockwave is the reality at this point in time and it is something that you have to accept if you go for pull. This is a fact. You don't want to acknowledge that, I see that at as "blindness" on your part.

Of course i accept it is a reality of Pull. Just not a part of how Pull works. Does the Adepts Pull require Shockwave? No. Does Jacobs? No. Does Samaras? No. Does Morinths? No. Ergo it is not a weakness of the power but of the class. I acknowledge that i lose Squad Cryo, but maintain that this is not such a great loss as you can easily get ammo powers from squadmates. You raised a point and i raised a counterpoint, this is not in any way "blindness".

RIght, if your goal is keep someone floating in the air for 12 seconds, then slam isn't going to cut it.  My point is slam makes up for "this deficiency" in other ways. Again you don't accept that.

Then you acknowledge that Pull is better at some things that Slam does, but Slam is better at some things Pull does, as i have?

You originally stated:

I do not see in which universe Slam could be better then Reave.

in a thread dedicated to taking Slam as a bonus power.  Ho hum, can't imagine what that means...

The meaning (in context) is perfectly clear. It is better for a player who has Pull but not Warp to have Reave then Slam. I did not say it was "ZOMG teh bestest power evah!" only that it was more effective.

Several people have agreed that a fully leveled Vanguard is better off taking Reave then Slam but that it is beneficial to take Slam as a Pull substitute until the later levels.

[Kronner]

Nozaro wrote...

What it comes down to is whether you are playing NG+ or not.

Not really. I played more NG+ Vanguards than regular games.
Before I saw Slam in action I had no bonus power (did not use it), then I saw how Slam can work. I liked it a lot.
For me, and apparently some other people too, Slam is better than Pull.

Why?
No need to waste 3 points in Shockwave, which allows me to keep squad Cryo ammo, which is a nice passive bonus that costs no cooldown.

I prefer instant cast over traveling projectile, Warp bomb, when I use them (mostly against collectors) are just more effective with Slam than with Pull.

So no, no matter what anyone says, Pull does not offer the same functionality. Pull is not instant cast power. That is a difference, like it or not. Pull can never replace Slam in this regard. That is a fact and no one can change that. What is so hard to understand (I do not mean you here, btw)?

I also don't like Reave, because the CD is too long and for me stripping powers are a waste of cooldown.

So Slam + squad Cryo Ammo is what I prefer over Shockwave + Pull + whatever. I am not saying it is universally better and the best build out there, just that it can be more effective for SOME people, depending on their playstye. Simple.

Modifié par Kronner, 25 novembre 2010 - 06:42 .

[AntiChri5]

No you refuted it as not being a valid point.  This is not debate this is pointless arguing, something that you appear to relish.

You are ignoring the points i used to invalidate it. There are positives and negatives to both instant cast and travel, and which you favour comes down to personal taste.

We are talking about bonus powers here and it is a disadvantage to taking pull on vanguard and this is inescapable and so you probably lost cryo.  I see that as an advantage to taking Slam, you obviously don't.

Of course. Losing cryo is no great sacrifice. It is the ammo power you use when you have no ammo power to use.

At least your at starting to acknowledge my points now. Progress!

I always have been.

[Cornelian]

I had an infiltrator with lift as bonus power in ME1.

Too bad that you cannot choose among all powers for your bonus power in ME2.

Slam is the "most acceptable" lift-pull i have found for him.

Modifié par Cornelian, 25 novembre 2010 - 07:14 .

[Mocker22]

Guys, In the end you should use the power that you like. Games are meant to be fun remember, they arn't meant as the test to see who has the l33test pwnzorz char.



There are clearly bonuses to each power.



Slam is very good if you are starting at level one, there is NO doubt about that. If your level 30 and can have Area Reave then that changes things a bit. Also if you want Squad Cryo Slam is great because it saves you 3 points. And Insta Warp bombs are very nice.



For me, because my Vanguard is level 30 and I dont really like Squad Cryo on Insanity I stick with Reave.

[sinosleep]

I like slam because as a 1 point power it is SPECTACULAR. In the the early game when you aren't going to have enough points 4 points to waste for 1 point of pull it's a life saver to able to just drop a point in slam and go about your business.



The only caveat really is that in order to use it for warp explosions you need to make sure your squad is BEHIND you. I ran into a problem several times when making my vanguard tutorial vids that when you let your warp bombers get into your line of sight they perform the casting animation which can mess up the PRECISE timing you need to set off warp bombs with 1 point slam.



So long as they are behind you though they don't seem to bother with the animation making their warps instant and MUCH easier to time with slams very short warp window.

[ryoldschool]

Let me add my two cents about what that guy was saying about pull. I have played complete vanguard playthroughs with slam and reave, and now I'm doing statis as the bonus. I have never used pull on a vanguard before, but after looking at this thread, I just did the LotSB mission at level 25 with only one point in both pull and statis. Pull was great on that mission because it could arc over barriers, etc. Also it was really easy to make those guys float on the outside of the SB ship - you don't have to be that careful. I know everyone here has a lot of opinions, but it made me try something I have avoided because I never wanted to spend points on shockwave. I assume pull will work well on husks on Reaper IFF ( I usually retrain with slam for that mission ).

[Nozaro]

Kronner wrote...

Nozaro wrote...

What it comes down to is whether you are playing NG+ or not.

Not really. I played more NG+ Vanguards than regular games.
Before I saw Slam in action I had no bonus power (did not use it), then I saw how Slam can work. I liked it a lot.
For me, and apparently some other people too, Slam is better than Pull.

Why?
No need to waste 3 points in Shockwave, which allows me to keep squad Cryo ammo, which is a nice passive bonus that costs no cooldown.

I prefer instant cast over traveling projectile, Warp bomb, when I use them (mostly against collectors) are just more effective with Slam than with Pull.

So no, no matter what anyone says, Pull does not offer the same functionality. Pull is not instant cast power. That is a difference, like it or not. Pull can never replace Slam in this regard. That is a fact and no one can change that. What is so hard to understand (I do not mean you here, btw)?

I also don't like Reave, because the CD is too long and for me stripping powers are a waste of cooldown.

So Slam + squad Cryo Ammo is what I prefer over Shockwave + Pull + whatever. I am not saying it is universally better and the best build out there, just that it can be more effective for SOME people, depending on their playstye. Simple.

What i was trying to get across was that if you are playng NG+ you have many more options because you are max level and can choose to use whatever combination of powers you want because you have the points to do it. While if you are starting at level 1 Slam offers far more benefit than any other bonus power at a 1 point investment.

Like you, i really like slam, it is my go to bonus power for Vanguard, all im saying is that if you are playing NG+ you can use whatever power combinations you like because you have the points for it. At higher levels in the game it all comes down to personal preference, while at lower levels you have priorities when spending your points (Heavy Charge > Champion > Inferno Ammo).

I also really like squad cryo and always get it on my Vanguards but i dont see how having pull effects getting squad cryo. You get 50 skill points at lvl 30 (51 if you take the one from your bonus power) so you have enough to max Charge > Passive > Inferno Ammo > Squad Cryo thats 40 points and you still have enough left for the points in shockwave and pull to level 3 if i remember correctly. The only way you cant get squad cryo is by choosing a bonus power that needs to be maxed to be effective (Reave).

Like i said in my first post in this thread, i like both slam and pull but at different points in the game. It all comes down to personal preference in my opinion.

[Velo]

m14567 wrote...

Velo wrote...

Pull can do everything slam does with same cooldown.

Slam is SLIGHTLY more reliable because instant cast, but you are bound to line of sight, so that's situational.

Every advantage slam has over pull is minimal. It's like taking reave when you have warp.

Choosing a bonus power giving you little more than something you already have is a waste, there are other bonus powers offering much more.

I see only two reason to take slam:

First reason: you have just one point and nothing vs. unprotected enemies.

Second reason: you really like slam and want to use it because it's funny and cool, that is perfectly fine.

Amen brothers and sisters. This thread is why you might want to take slam as a bonus power.  There are certainly reasons why you might not want to, to each their own.

You should check the first sentence of the first post (the one in brackets), you missed something

[Velo]

m14567 wrote...

Velo wrote...

m14567 wrote...

Velo wrote...

Pull can do everything slam does with same cooldown.

Slam is SLIGHTLY more reliable because instant cast, but you are bound to line of sight, so that's situational.

Every advantage slam has over pull is minimal. It's like taking reave when you have warp.

Choosing a bonus power giving you little more than something you already have is a waste, there are other bonus powers offering much more.

I see only two reason to take slam:

First reason: you have just one point and nothing vs. unprotected enemies.

Second reason: you really like slam and want to use it because it's funny and cool, that is perfectly fine.

Amen brothers and sisters. This thread is why you might want to take slam as a bonus power.  There are certainly reasons why you might not want to, to each their own.

You should check the first sentence of the first post (the one in brackets), you missed something

Or maybe you missed a joke, amen (religious fervor?)  Read my second and third sentence

I did.
In fact this thread is not only about reasons to take slam, but also about reasons why you should not take it.
This seems a small difference but it's not.
The main and only reason not to take slam is because there is something else better.

It is perfectly fine to talk about reave, because for a vanguard reave may be a reason not to take slam.



About the first topic:

slam seems to be only a vanguard issue, since vanguards needs shockwave to take pull and it is a waste of point because shockwave really sucks at higher difficulties and vanguards can't take squad cryo ammo.

Imho if you have squad cryo ammo there is no reason to take slam, you already have something that works against unprotected enemies, slam offers other advantages but is redundant overall, maybe situational at best, like in LoTSB, if you hate that mission on the platform, take slam, but I'll drop it later because it adds little.



My ultimate advice is to try other powers and see how they fit in your playstyle.

[Kronner]

Velo wrote...

Imho if you have squad cryo ammo there is no reason to take slam, you already have something that works against unprotected enemies, slam offers other advantages but is redundant overall, maybe situational at best, like in LoTSB, if you hate that mission on the platform, take slam, but I'll drop it later because it adds little.

Instant Warp Bombs.

For the milionth time. Slam is the only power in the game that allows you to set up instant Warp bomb. This can't be replaced by Pull. With Reave you can do instant bombs too, but only against barrier/armor protected enemies AND you have longer cooldown.

Modifié par Kronner, 26 novembre 2010 - 03:07 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Velo wrote...

The main and only reason not to take slam is because there is something else better.

Like what? Reave?

It is perfectly fine to talk about reave, because for a vanguard reave may be a reason not to take slam.

Why take Reave? It's imho the worst bonus power available (all classes). It is versatile for sure, but everything it can do, can be done better and faster using other powers. Reave is only worthwhile to players who don't like to change their bonus power now and then (it works on all missions except synthetic heavy missions).

Besides, isn't playing Vanguard about Charge? I can't think of many situations (except non-chargeable enemies, but they are few) where I would prefer using something else instead of Charge. Slam has a very short cooldown thus hardly interferes with the aggressive charging Vanguard's playstyle, while allowing instant warpbombs even at rank 1.