343 réponses à ce sujet

[Adanu]

David Gaider wrote...

relhart wrote...

They aren't the lowest common denominator, they are average.


130+
Very superior
2.2%

120-129
Superior
6.7%

110-119
High average
16.1%

90-109
Average
50%

80-89
Low average
16.1%

70-79
Borderline
6.7%

Below 70
Extremely low
2.2%

IQ scores broken up by percentage of population. Obviously making a game that caters to people in the 90-120 range is going to appeal to the largest possible audience, (and presumably the highest sales) Mystery solved. DAO wasn't a hard game as it was, it certainly didn't have real strategic depth to it. I don't see DA2 as being much of a departure from that. (based on the little I have seen of it)  Honestly my fellow 130+ ers, you should be used to mass marketed media being this way.

Seriously?

So the assumption is, evidently, that the more hardcore someone is the smarter they are? And the people who don't want a difficult game are therefore either average or dumb? And that, by extension, it's the smart people who are our more worthwhile customers?

I have no opinion on where game difficulty ends up-- gameplay is not my bailiwick-- but if you ask me it's opinions like this from the hardcore that make developers not regret making games more accessible in the slightest.

You're latching onto words and giving them negative meaning where there are none simply because of previous experience with people who have a different view of games than you.

That being said, your BIoware superiors have already made it clear who their worthwhile customers are... and it isn't the BG crowd.

[Dave of Canada]

Adanu wrote...

That being said, your BIoware superiors have already made it clear who their worthwhile customers are... and it isn't the BG crowd.

You're latching onto words and giving them negative meaning where there are none

[Bryy_Miller]

Adanu wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

relhart wrote...

They aren't the lowest common denominator, they are average.


130+
Very superior
2.2%

120-129
Superior
6.7%

110-119
High average
16.1%

90-109
Average
50%

80-89
Low average
16.1%

70-79
Borderline
6.7%

Below 70
Extremely low
2.2%

IQ scores broken up by percentage of population. Obviously making a game that caters to people in the 90-120 range is going to appeal to the largest possible audience, (and presumably the highest sales) Mystery solved. DAO wasn't a hard game as it was, it certainly didn't have real strategic depth to it. I don't see DA2 as being much of a departure from that. (based on the little I have seen of it)  Honestly my fellow 130+ ers, you should be used to mass marketed media being this way.

Seriously?

So the assumption is, evidently, that the more hardcore someone is the smarter they are? And the people who don't want a difficult game are therefore either average or dumb? And that, by extension, it's the smart people who are our more worthwhile customers?

I have no opinion on where game difficulty ends up-- gameplay is not my bailiwick-- but if you ask me it's opinions like this from the hardcore that make developers not regret making games more accessible in the slightest.

You're latching onto words and giving them negative meaning where there are none simply because of previous experience with people who have a different view of games than you.

That being said, your BIoware superiors have already made it clear who their worthwhile customers are... and it isn't the BG crowd.

You could have just written "no, u".

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 26 novembre 2010 - 08:47 .

[Leonia]

I wish I had the pyschic ability to read developers minds so I too could know who they really are targetting with their products. With such power, I would be unstoppable!

[AlanC9]

Adanu wrote...
That being said, your BIoware superiors have already made it clear who their worthwhile customers are... and it isn't the BG crowd.

Meaning the crowd that wants a game just like BG? Not being interested in them has got nothing to do with Gaider's superiors. I mean, why would anyone want to cater to you lot?

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 novembre 2010 - 09:03 .

[Xewaka]

AlanC9 wrote...

Adanu wrote...
That being said, your BIoware superiors have already made it clear who their worthwhile customers are... and it isn't the BG crowd.

Meaning the crowd that wants a game just like BG? Not being interested in them has got nothing to do with Gaider's superiors. I mean, why would anyone want to cater to you lot?

Because we have excellent taste and spare money?

[Aesthioseae]

Xewaka wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Adanu wrote...
That being said, your BIoware superiors have already made it clear who their worthwhile customers are... and it isn't the BG crowd.

Meaning the crowd that wants a game just like BG? Not being interested in them has got nothing to do with Gaider's superiors. I mean, why would anyone want to cater to you lot?

Because we have excellent taste and spare money?

Really? Because a lot of responses in this thread are in quite poor taste. I don't disagree with you about the spare money though.

[AlanC9]

Xewaka wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Adanu wrote...
That being said, your BIoware superiors have already made it clear who their worthwhile customers are... and it isn't the BG crowd.

Meaning the crowd that wants a game just like BG? Not being interested in them has got nothing to do with Gaider's superiors. I mean, why would anyone want to cater to you lot?

Because we have excellent taste and spare money?

Excellent taste? Hardly. BG was OK for its time, but Bio's doing a lot of things better these days.

[Xewaka]

Aesthioseae wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Because we have excellent taste and spare money?

Really? Because a lot of responses in this thread are in quite poor taste. I don't disagree with you about the spare money though.

I dunno. I just read the question and a funny line jumped into my head.

[Adanu]

AlanC9 wrote...

Adanu wrote...
That being said, your BIoware superiors have already made it clear who their worthwhile customers are... and it isn't the BG crowd.

Meaning the crowd that wants a game just like BG? Not being interested in them has got nothing to do with Gaider's superiors. I mean, why would anyone want to cater to you lot?

Meaning the crowd that wants a decent spiritual successor to BG and somewhat stays that way.

Why would *anyone* want to cater to *you*? We have money and we have our own desires. Do you think we are not allowed to express this?

[Monica83]

Baldur's gate still Remain one of the greates roleplay game of all times...



You think MA2 is better than baldur's gate saga?

Or Dragon age?

Or Even jaded empire...



They are not baldur's gate saga still remain a masterpiece...

[Gtdef]

The iq and averages have nothing to do with it. It's just the way of things. It's called going mainstream, and it's all about being faster. Faster music, faster cars, faster lifestyle, faster everything. And if you ask me, that's the way it should be. I don't always like it, but I've come in terms with it. And that's why in 5 years, perhaps there will come a developer that will make a game that has the depth of early 00s rpgs with those advanced graphics and interaction. You should thank Bioware for the Mass Effect conversation wheel and interrupt system, you should thank Obsidian for Alpha Protocol conversation system with the timer and responses based on personallity rather than the old black or white or spineless neutral. Because this is the future, and the future looks good no matter how many lame excuses people will think of.



Western medieval rpgs are about to get evolved. Dragon Age 2, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex: HR. They move in the same direction. Dragon Age 2 actually has taken the most risk. It has new art/animation, graphics, conversation system, character/companion progression, story telling, role playing mechanisms. It's a whole different game and it takes only one and a half year since Origins to be released. I hope that all these rpg games trying to introduce new elements will succeed in sales and in everything else.



As for high iq <=> hardcore, it's just plain wrong. RPGs are not difficult games. RPGs are about choice. The only thing an intelligent gamer can do more than a less intelligent gamer, is to find the better combinations for having an easier time for the second playthrough. But it's not a matter of iq. It's a matter of commitment. Gaming is no different than any other hobby, and always the commited is the more succesful and better at what he does. Not the intelligent.

[Monica83]

Evolve means go on.. not go back...

[Gtdef]

Monica83 wrote...

Evolve means go on.. not go back...

Care to elaborate?

[Monica83]

Since i don't want to explain the same point i already explained tons of times if you want to understeand what i mean check the Things & Concerns you don't like in DA2 anyways...



Mass effect 2 is not an rpg its a shooter with a nice story or a graphic novel

The witcher 2 added the schematic dialog system but isn't a problem if you have a premaded total character like geralt and they also taking care for hardcore gamers i follow with interest what cd-Project are making and i find they way to take care for both audience nice... They improve action but they improve roleplay to...



Dragon age 2: Crap anims,Streamlized as hell, Static classes,Static companion outfit,Static Race Selection (this is not a problem because its the story of hawke),Gameplay much more similiar to a beat em up (on console), or a Streamlized Origins (for pc),Nice texture on graphic but i hate this minimalism on ambience..(since we don't seen a lot of location we will see)



In the case of Mass Effect 2 and his fantasy version Dragon age 2 i don't see any evolution..

[ErichHartmann]

Monica83 wrote...

Since i don't want to explain the same point i already explained tons of times if you want to understeand what i mean check the Things & Concerns you don't like in DA2 anyways...

Mass effect 2 is not an rpg its a shooter with a nice story or a graphic novel
The witcher 2 added the schematic dialog system but isn't a problem if you have a premaded total character like geralt and they also taking care for hardcore gamers i follow with interest what cd-Project are making and i find they way to take care for both audience nice... They improve action but they improve roleplay to...

Dragon age 2: Crap anims,Streamlized as hell, Static classes,Static companion outfit,Static Race Selection (this is not a problem because its the story of hawke),Gameplay much more similiar to a beat em up (on console), or a Streamlized Origins (for pc),Nice texture on graphic but i hate this minimalism on ambience..(since we don't seen a lot of location we will see)

In the case of Mass Effect 2 and his fantasy version Dragon age 2 i don't see any evolution..

The features you trash DAII for are very similar to The Witcher 2.  They have a lot more in common then you realize.

[Monica83]

Yes but implemented way better... Just compare the animations... Dialog wheel its not a problem if you have the a total premade character static outfit not problem the witcher is born in that way so no stepback... Also they are taking care for hardcore gamers and for action lovers in the same way so i don't think DA2 and the witcher 2 are comparable...
Just watch the gameplay trailer Prison escape... Ambience is much more more more detailed graphic is way better characters are well maded.. again they are not comparable..

Modifié par Monica83, 26 novembre 2010 - 09:54 .

[The Masked Rog]

Dragon age 2: Crap anims,Streamlized as hell, Static classes,Static companion outfit,Static Race Selection (this is not a problem because its the story of hawke),Gameplay much more similiar to a beat em up (on console), or a Streamlized Origins (for pc),Nice texture on graphic but i hate this minimalism on ambience..(since we don't seen a lot of location we will see)







In the case of Mass Effect 2 and his fantasy version Dragon age 2 i don't see any evolution..

What about those who think everything you said they have done in Dragon Age is for the better, except for the beat them up combat which I don't think is nearly true, unless the gameplay footage showing gameplay similar to Origins are fake? Mass Effect 2 was a great step forward in RPGs. Black and White televisions were great when they appeared too, but we've evolved past them. So RPGs have evolved past BG. They shouldn't strive for BG likeliness like BG is superior. They should adapt to the newer technologies.

[Monica83]

I don't think mass effect 2 is a step forward i think mass effect 2 is a great step backward from the first like its happening between origins and dragon age 2.. Baldur's gate saga have a deep depth great characters a lot of detail in world and an awesome plot... Yes maybe the engine is old... But Bg2 still have much more content than the recent games... Number of monster number of npc you meet great location dungeon always different quest and great sidequest also companion personal quests you really can't compare bg saga with the recent games...

[The Masked Rog]

Monica83 wrote...

I don't think mass effect 2 is a step forward i think mass effect 2 is a great step backward from the first like its happening between origins and dragon age 2.. Baldur's gate saga have a deep depth great characters a lot of detail in world and an awesome plot... Yes maybe the engine is old... But Bg2 still have much more content than the recent games... Number of monster number of npc you meet great location dungeon always different quest and great sidequest also companion personal quests you really can't compare bg saga with the recent games...

I can. It sucked. The gameplay was bloody bloated and difficult to understand, there were like 500 stats and 1000 spells and it could even be great if there wasn't about only one good way to go about char creation. Recent games have much simplified character creation, where you can actually understand the effects of raising a stat or choosing  a skill. They don't try to emulate a system which works well for tabletop games, they create one that works well for them. DA:O had great characters, an huge number of location and a huge number of quests. Frankly, I'd prefer if DA2 went with fewer sidequests but really fleshed out, ala Mass Effect 2. The story in BGII was meh to say the least, and it reallty dragged for too long, I was tired of it long before reaching the end, mainly because the story isn't engaging at all and very sparse (go here, kill this, get back, get money, etc..) and the gameplay was repetitive. 

[Monica83]

Bg? Sucked? I don't think you can appreciate an rpg game at this point

[nightcobra]

Monica83 wrote...

Bg? Sucked? I don't think you can appreciate an rpg game at this point

for me, time has not been too kind to the BG series. as far as plot and characters go the quality is still there but the gameplay is now to me very dated seriously limiting my enjoyment.

[Fishy]

This snob'ish crap about IQ getting on my nerve.

IQ just describe a minimal aspect of your intellectual potential(spatial math whatever).But it's forget everything else that is essential for the growth of an individual .. IQ mean ****.It's just inflatuate nerd with superior IQ complex(snob) .

Modifié par Suprez30, 26 novembre 2010 - 10:25 .

[Monica83]

Im not talking of IQ but if you don't liked Baldur's gate i don't understeand why you are plyng RPG's..

[EmperorSahlertz]

Because that RPGs don't have have to follow BGs design?