147 réponses à ce sujet

[hexaligned]

Sooo, I guess I'm the only one that likes permanent death mechanics if one of your companions falls in battle. It helps pull the actual game mechanics into the story imo. Of course I don't get emotionally attached to companions anyways, I just see them as tools essentially.



That being said, I'd rather they stick with the new story arc for every title (assuming there will be more) I had more than enough of my Warden(s) after 3 playthroughs of DAO, and certainly had, had enough of the party members in the game. Newness for Newness's sake I say.

[the_one_54321]

crimzontearz wrote...
we paly a different protagonist each time

And what the heck would be wrong with this, exactly? 

[the_one_54321]

The point you're missing is the story that you're playing.
What comes later, comes later.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[errant_knight]

Brockololly wrote...

It will be interesting to see how the whole 10 year time period and the framed narrative affects things like character death in DA2 though. Whether maybe having Carver or whoever in Hawke's family die at the beginning changes anything later on in the timeline, beyond just missing out on content.

errant_knight wrote...
I
have to agree that if you killed your companions, or otherwise got rid
of them, it makes no sense to me that the other characters wouldn't have
a strong reaction of some kind. They've been travelling with them for
months. They might hate that person, or like them very much. They'd say
or do something. It wouldn't be business as usual afterwards. They
wouldn't just say goodbye at the gate as though nothing ever
happened.

That sort of thing might not be as big of a deal in DA2, seeing as the companions sort of do their own thing when not out adventuring, but in DAO at least, it would have been interesting if there had been some sort of Total War/CIv style overall party approval system in addition to the individual approval, kind of how in Total War games you have the overall approval/disapproval of a given region. So like if you just whacked Leliana or somebody, maybe it puts the whole party in a crisis mode where it culminates in a big sit down moment  where everybody airs their grieveances to the PC- or a scene like in ME1 after Virmire.

I would find that very interesting. Depending on what you said or did, it could lead to a major shakeup.

[Ortaya Alevli]

If I decided to add options to kill off certain important characters in a game I wrote, including the player character, I'd do that for three reasons:

1) I'd have established a canon where the player protagonist and a number of killable characters have remained alive instead of getting killed, thus ruling out player choices in a possible sequel,

2) I'd have shifted the focus from the killable characters to brand new ones, or at least other preexisted characters that are guaranteed to stay alive in the future, in a possible sequel,

3) I'd have no plans to write a sequel at all.

Then again, I wouldn't have a few tricks up my sleeve that a professional writer would, therefore I'm not sure writers are going for optional character survival only to write themselves to a corner.

[Vylan Antagonist]

What DA2 really needs is a character that inspires the same sort of fervent dedication and disturbing sexualization that Tali did among fans in ME. Then DA2 needs to kill that character with no possibility of player recourse.... except in DLC.



Start with an elf, obviously, then make her chaste and guileless.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

What DA2 really needs is a character that inspires the same sort of fervent dedication and disturbing sexualization that Tali did among fans in ME. Then DA2 needs to kill that character with no possibility of player recourse.... except in DLC.

Start with an elf, obviously, then make her chaste and guileless.

But what if she ended up another Aerie? hehe You'd have people like me who would ask for a DLC where we can kill her off.

[the_one_54321]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
What DA2 really needs is ... disturbing sexualization that Tali did among fans in ME.

Please no. Seriously. No more alien sex. Not even the blue sexy women.

[Ortaya Alevli]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
What DA2 really needs is ... disturbing sexualization that Tali did among fans in ME.

Please no. Seriously. No more alien sex. Not even the blue sexy women.

I think you wouldn't make great buddies with Captain Kirk.

[Revan312]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
What DA2 really needs is ... disturbing sexualization that Tali did among fans in ME.

Please no. Seriously. No more alien sex. Not even the blue sexy women.

I think you wouldn't make great buddies with Captain Kirk.

No wild blue alien women?! My Avatar displays Kirk's rage at such a demand!

Modifié par Revan312, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:37 .

[the_one_54321]

Kirk >> Shepard

[Addai]

There weren't that many plot deaths in DA. There was just a revolving door of companions where you never saw them again. I prefer to develop a character and see that character move through different situations, so that I always have a personal connection to the larger story of Thedas. It looks like that is not going to happen and was never the plan.

I've seen Mr. Gaider referring to characters like Maric, where people have asked if we would see more of him in some form, and he said he didn't feel like some characters were finished but that apparently people wanted to see a new cast. I don't know if that's focus group people or what, but it makes me want to hit them. I would like to see more of the characters we've come to love, not an endless parade of faceless companions.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:47 .

[Brockololly]

----9----- wrote...
If I chose the Morrigan romance in DA:O and into WH, I find there is no (apparent) continuity in DA2, although it seems implied when playing DA:O, moreso with the advertising of WH: "But whether you seek answers, revenge, or reconciliation with your lost love, you may find more than you bargained for." Except I found less and a cliff hanger ending, with what now appears to be a crumbling cliff rather than a timely rescue.

The marketing taglines and marketing claims behind Witch Hunt were pure nonsense that seem to have in part led to massively misguided expectations from people on what to expect out of that DLC which led to it getting pretty abysmal review scores across the board once people realized there was no epic closure or great answers given from Morrigan, like the marketing claimed and people were expecting- especially since it was paraded around as the last big Warden adventure with "Morrigan's Secrets Finally revealed!"

At best, ignoring any of the Warden's personal connections(which is a significant factor in your enjoyment of WH), Witch Hunt seems to hint at some big future event, the big "change", which will likely tie Morrigan into some future story. And it hints that the Wardens might have some role to play in that story and that Flemeth is seemingly something even "worse" than Morrigan thought. And then flag wise, it does keep track of how you end things with Morrigan (stab, go with her, or get the gift and walk away).

But yeah, seeing as Morrigan and the Wardens don't seem to play much of a role in DA2, it seems its setting up something in the future. Laidlaw said in this interview at Gamescom that DA2 sets the stage for Morrigan's story in the future, so I guess, taking the whole world view on things, DA2 and Hawke and probably Flemeth's machinations set the stage for (hopefully) some resolution or continuity with Morrigan in DA3 or whenever- hopefully sooner rather than later.

[Herr Uhl]

Addai67 wrote...

There weren't that many plot deaths in DA. There was just a revolving door of companions where you never saw them again. I prefer to develop a character and see that character move through different situations, so that I always have a personal connection to the larger story of Thedas. It looks like that is not going to happen and was never the plan.

I've seen Mr. Gaider referring to characters like Maric, where people have asked if we would see more of him in some form, and he said he didn't feel like some characters were finished but that apparently people wanted to see a new cast. I don't know if that's focus group people or what, but it makes me want to hit them. I would like to see more of the characters we've come to love, not an endless parade of faceless companions.

You mean like all the companions prior to DAO?

[Ziggeh]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Kirk >> Shepard

I for one am dissapointed you don't get to blow the reapers up by questioning their logic. Who knows, though, maybe we will.

Vylan Antagonist wrote...


Then DA2 needs
to kill that character with no possibility of player recourse.... except
in DLC.

Haha, they could charge whatever they liked. I'd keep quiet, that idea's a little too good.

----9----- wrote...

What point are we (or am I) missing? Or do
I misunderstand something here? You seem to be saying there's a
continuity, yet a single story of the Warden, followed by the single
story of Hawke.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive. It's not a continuous narrative moving from one PC to the next, but
then no one ever said it was and that's not the same thing as continuity. If you chopped off Wynne's head and stole her shoes, and she then bowls up to Hawke and introduces herself, that's a break in continuity. If she's never mentioned again, no matter the state, continuity is preserved.

[Addai]

Herr Uhl wrote...

You mean like all the companions prior to DAO?

??  Don't follow you.  I'm talking about the fact that we got all new companions (Oghren excepted) in Awakening, which we then never saw again, new faceless companions for Golems of Amgarrak, new faceless companions in Witch Hunt, etc.  I mean, it's true, there was very little continuity in the DLCs at all, but it was the companion discontinuity that struck me the most and seemed the most unfortunate, since companion interaction was such a strength of DAO.

[Vylan Antagonist]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

What DA2 really needs is a character that inspires the same sort of fervent dedication and disturbing sexualization that Tali did among fans in ME. Then DA2 needs to kill that character with no possibility of player recourse.... except in DLC.

Start with an elf, obviously, then make her chaste and guileless.

But what if she ended up another Aerie? hehe You'd have people like me who would ask for a DLC where we can kill her off.

 Um, about Aerie... I think she might have been a Gaider creation, but as I recall, he's pretty content with how she turned out; She generally inspired potent emotions one way or another.

Still, unless I just blissfully managed to forget, I don't recall her being idolized quite like Tali, inspiring hundreds of pages of weird fetishistic inflation pics and the like. For this plan to work, we need someone comparable in terms of lonely gamer appeal. On the other hand, she can't be so pitiful as to inspire scorn (Aerie's downfall, arguably).
Again, Mission Vao and Tali need to be our template for this  plan to work. So, uncomfortably young. Plucky.

And maybe give her cat ears and a tail to lure in the furries.

[Ziggeh]

Addai67 wrote...

??  Don't follow you.  I'm talking about the fact that we got all new companions (Oghren excepted) in Awakening, which we then never saw again, new faceless companions for Golems of Amgarrak, new faceless companions in Witch Hunt, etc.  I mean, it's true, there was very little continuity in the DLCs at all, but it was the companion discontinuity that struck me the most and seemed the most unfortunate, since companion interaction was such a strength of DAO.

Read the bit I wrote a page back about the writers. Sure they could add depth to each character, but you can't assume everyone has played the preceding game, meaning you need to essentially tell a new personal story with each appearance of the character. That's going to be a little contrived, as are the methods you use to keep them alive. But most of all, maybe they've just said what they wanted to say with that character, and no matter how much you might have loved it, it doesn't follow that theres more to be told.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 24 novembre 2010 - 06:11 .

[Herr Uhl]

Addai67 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

You mean like all the companions prior to DAO?

??  Don't follow you.  I'm talking about the fact that we got all new companions (Oghren excepted) in Awakening, which we then never saw again, new faceless companions for Golems of Amgarrak, new faceless companions in Witch Hunt, etc.  I mean, it's true, there was very little continuity in the DLCs at all, but it was the companion discontinuity that struck me the most and seemed the most unfortunate, since companion interaction was such a strength of DAO.

Ah, I thought you meant for DA2. No worries.

The characters there probably won't be faceless.

[FedericoV]

crimzontearz wrote...

Seriously tho....it seems to show a certain lack in the far sight department to make it possible to kill so many people only to realize you are not going to be able to make them come back at all in following games if not in the form ofa tiny cameo that everyone will just go "meh" about.

I'd rather have a COUPLE of virmire moments than a ton of crisis situations that will prevent the return of some of my favorite characters (yes that includes their return coupled with a "ah yes a three headed dog brought me back to life" handed to me by the writers)

What do you guys think?

I agree with the overall position but do not agree with the solution. In my opinion, videgoames and books are very different media and need different kind of choices. Each game has to stand on its own and the consequences of our choices should be visible here and now in the course of the game. "Cross-titles" repercussion will never be rapresented in a satisfactory way, especially in a series like DA that has not a planned end on sight. A game is not an episode of a tv series or one book in a long series. So, the solution for me is to invest in choices that matters more on the story of the single game and less on the overall continuity of the franchise (wich is cool but should not be more than flavour).

Modifié par FedericoV, 24 novembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Archereon]

Gleym wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Unless Dragon age is turning into a freaking FF-like rpg

Don't be silly. Dragon Age 2 isn't even an RPG in the first place (if adding stats to level up abilities counts as an RPG, I guess that means God of War is one too; similarly, if customizing my armor and appearance makes it an RPG, then so is Halo - and no, multiple choice answers in a cutscene isn't enough to count as an RPG), so how could it turn into a Final Fantasy knockoff?

lol.  I don't really think there is such thing as a proper RPG.  Everyone has their own defenition.

But the basic defenition of an RPG is a game who's gameplay is derived at least in part from Dungeons and Dragons...

As in...

-Meaningful levels.
-Meaningful stats and/or skills
-Meaningful equipment and some sort of inventory managment.
-Strategic combat, and often  "Active ability" combat.
-(generally) party based gameplay)

[Ortaya Alevli]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

 Um, about Aerie... I think she might have been a Gaider creation, but as I recall, he's pretty content with how she turned out; She generally inspired potent emotions one way or another.

Still, unless I just blissfully managed to forget, I don't recall her being idolized quite like Tali, inspiring hundreds of pages of weird fetishistic inflation pics and the like. For this plan to work, we need someone comparable in terms of lonely gamer appeal. On the other hand, she can't be so pitiful as to inspire scorn (Aerie's downfall, arguably).
Again, Mission Vao and Tali need to be our template for this  plan to work. So, uncomfortably young. Plucky.

And maybe give her cat ears and a tail to lure in the furries.

Of course. A strong dislike doesn't imply an opinion that Aerie was a poorly written character. Quite the contrary. A strong dislike implies an appreciation of the writer's success in personifying a fictional character. If I didn't find Aerie a well-written and fleshed out character, I wouldn't even bother taking time for pathetic hate-mongering. hehe

Aerie wasn't idolized in the same way, yeah. Not enough medium, and it wasn't a time of relevant trends back then. But if an Aerie expy were to be created today...well, we all know how forums can get.

That aside, if we get another Aerie in the future, I'd expect a demand for a DLC where she can be killed in a number of gruesome ways.

[AlanC9]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
Still, unless I just blissfully managed to forget, I don't recall her being idolized quite like Tali, inspiring hundreds of pages of weird fetishistic inflation pics and the like.

That might have been just how that era worked. I don't recall any characters inspiring that sort of thing a decade ago.

[Ortaya Alevli]

AlanC9 wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
Still, unless I just blissfully managed to forget, I don't recall her being idolized quite like Tali, inspiring hundreds of pages of weird fetishistic inflation pics and the like.

That might have been just how that era worked. I don't recall any characters inspiring that sort of thing a decade ago.

There were some, but not in the same way. Intense marketing geared towards that direction was involved. Lara Croft comes to mind.