101 réponses à ce sujet

[LorDC]

@Zulu
I have no doubts that you can bring up million and one explanation for holes in your theory. But it has one fatal flaw. It is too complicated. It is much easier to assume that Wilson was acting on SB's orders or just gone crazy.

Modifié par LorDC, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
A less "Oliver Stone" explanation is that Wilson didn't plan to kill Shep, Shep was supposed to stay asleep and unharmed -- the mechs could easily be instructed to not enter that room or to not attack the unconcious or whatever. Hence, Wilson's surpise when Jacob says that Shep is awake.

Only Wilson's surprise was more about Shepard's being alive. And when he came on comm, Wilson's voice was clearly panicking, as if he didn't even expecte to reach anyone.

Jacob&Shepard's being alive gave him hope not only to get out of that whole mess but also to complete his out mission -- bring Shepard to the Shadow Broker.

And yes, it's all just my speculation, just like Wilson's "self-inflicted" wound is your speculation.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:18 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
A less "Oliver Stone" explanation is that Wilson didn't plan to kill Shep, Shep was supposed to stay asleep and unharmed -- the mechs could easily be instructed to not enter that room or to not attack the unconcious or whatever. Hence, Wilson's surpise when Jacob says that Shep is awake.

Only Wilson's surprise was more about Shepard's being alive. And when he came on comm, Wilson's voice was clearly panicking, as if he didn't even expecte to reach anyone.

Jacob&Shepard's being alive gave him hope not only to get out of that whole mess but also to complete his out mission -- bring Shepard to the Shadow Broker.

And yes, it's all just my speculation, just like Wilson's "self-inflicted" wound is your speculation.

It's a much "smaller" speculation.  Occam's razor, and all that.

[Zulu_DFA]

Except the ultimate "Wilson did it for teh lulz 'cuz he gone crazy" explanation of the "self-inflicted wound" version of the story takes a lot more stretch of mind to be believe.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Who said anything about Wilson going crazy or doing it for the lulz? Not me.

[CroGamer002]

He was a Shadow Broker agent.

From LotSB Legion dossier.

(Note: We are still unable to directly tap geth communications. Cerberus decryption programs look promising, but Wilson´s death will make integrating new agents onto Minuteman difficult.)

Modifié par Mesina2, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:42 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Who said anything about Wilson going crazy or doing it for the lulz? Not me.

Then why would he do it?



Again, LotSB confirmed that TSB wanted Shepard as alive as possible. Why would Wilson endanger Shepard's life, and his own, is such a daring and clumsy attempt, instead of coming up with a more sophisticated and reliable plan? He was a scientist and "one of the best agents" (TIM's own words!), which implies some intellect and doing something right, or not doing it at all.

[DanaScu]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
A less "Oliver Stone" explanation is that Wilson didn't plan to kill Shep, Shep was supposed to stay asleep and unharmed -- the mechs could easily be instructed to not enter that room or to not attack the unconcious or whatever. Hence, Wilson's surpise when Jacob says that Shep is awake.

Only Wilson's surprise was more about Shepard's being alive. And when he came on comm, Wilson's voice was clearly panicking, as if he didn't even expecte to reach anyone.

Jacob&Shepard's being alive gave him hope not only to get out of that whole mess but also to complete his out mission -- bring Shepard to the Shadow Broker.

And yes, it's all just my speculation, just like Wilson's "self-inflicted" wound is your speculation.

Shepard sees a couple of mechs killing other people on the way to meeting Jacob. All of the other personnel that Shepard and Jacob pass in the halls are dead. None of the mechs leaves a living person behind them. If Wilson was in server room B [whatever it was] and was shot by a mech, where is the mech? Why is Wilson still alive if he and the mech [or mechs, since I think he said "they found me"] were in server room B? Wilson is shot in the leg; the one Ymir Shep sees uses a nice subtle rocket to the head to kill the one guy; did Wilson's mech have really bad aim? And yes, Wilson was panicking; he didn't expect to have anyone else alive. He didn't *want* to have anyone other than an unconscious Shepard alive; his plan wasn't working out the way he wanted.

I didn't necessarily think that Wilson wanted Shepard dead, but I did think Wilson hacked the mechs. All the journal entries from Wilson about wanting more money and Miranda to pay more attention to him were possible reasons he would be open to offers from the SB. I think he shot himself in a not life threatening area to divert suspicion; his immediate offering up of Miranda as the traitor was another move in the same "Its not me" direction. As far as Miranda picking Wilson as the traitor; he's in the server room when he shouldn't have clearance to be, he's messing with the mechs supposedly to try to "fix" them, and he's the only survivor besides Shep and Jacob. Shepard was unconscious and couldn't have hacked the mechs. Miranda trusts Jacob from past experience. Out of the survivors, Wilson was most likely the traitor.

I didn't have a problem with that, actually. I know you'll have a different opinion.

[SimonTheFrog]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Who said anything about Wilson going crazy or doing it for the lulz? Not me.

But it's common knowledge!
BioWare just needed splosions in the tut-level without introducing the bad guys already or even some merc-bands because then it would be more obvious to ask "why the hell are we being under attack". "Wilson is a traitor!" is really all we need to know to understand that we need to shoot those mechs.
Also, it introduces Miranda as cold and efficient and Jacob as a silly, rather harmless buddy. 

I wouldn't even go as far as having the SB pulling the strings because why would he be interested in sabotaging the project? He wanted to sell the body and that's all he cares about concerning Shepard. Why would he want to destroy him? Their paths have not crossed yet, really. It would make a some sort of hoggwash explanation because the SB does all sorts of aggressive stuff... so yeah, him is always a good guess when stuff blows up. <_<

Nah, it's been Wilson. He wanted to sleep with Miranda but she only wanted to please TIM and resurrect Shep. That made him so angry and p.o.'ed that he decided to burn it all down: unsatisfied passion and vengeance are very common motives for destructive behavior.

P.S. yeah inflicting non-lethal wounds to one-self as a distraction is a common plot-part. I've seen it in movies before. 

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:59 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

My guess is Wilson got pissed at Miranda not giving him some lovin' so he contacted the Shadow Broker and attempted to destroy the project and kill Shepard.

[Zulu_DFA]

Just put yourself in Wilson's shoes.



You are to deliver the Package to the Customer and collect a lot of money. The Package is a few days from being ready. You're in charge of determining the exact day when it is ready. So you can warn the Customer in advance when and where he should send his friends to help you with the heavy lifting...



Then suddenly everything around you goes boom, and you know you are a bad guy, and this mess has probably something to do with it... Given that, I can admit that Wilson's wound was probably self-inflicted. And he showed a lot of pluck and wit through the whole business... but he had no chance to make it to the shuttle bay before Miranda.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Who said anything about Wilson going crazy or doing it for the lulz? Not me.

Then why would he do it?

Again, LotSB confirmed that TSB wanted Shepard as alive as possible. Why would Wilson endanger Shepard's life, and his own, is such a daring and clumsy attempt, instead of coming up with a more sophisticated and reliable plan? He was a scientist and "one of the best agents" (TIM's own words!), which implies some intellect and doing something right, or not doing it at all.

I already covered that. 

Shep was supposed to stay unconcious and in his/her room.  Wilson, if he's capable of hacking the mechs, is probably capable of instructing them to kill everyone who isn't Shep or Wilson, in some way.  Say, "don't enter these two rooms". 

Shep being awake means that Wilson has to improvise.  Cover his tracks by wounding himself in a way that looks serious, but isn't -- he's the head of medical, if I recall correctly.  Get Shep to come to him.  Etc. 

If mechs wounded Wilson, why didn't they finish him off?  Do we see any disabled mechs in the server room with Wilson?  Why does Wilson seem to direct Shep and Jacob straight into mechs?   (EDIT:  looks like the probably-self-inflicted wound isn't a point of contention any more, so that's probably moot at this stage.)

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:14 .

[Exile Isan]

I'm in the camp that says Wilson hacked the mechs (without the intention of killing Shepard) and shot himself and blames Miranda for the mechs to throw suspicion off himself when he finds out that Jacob and Shepard are still alive. And all on the orders of the Shadow Broker.

As for Zulu's theory, I can't buy it. Miranda is far to cautious to throw away two years of hard work so casually to "test Shepard", even on the orders of TIM. There are other things that keep me from believing it, but since everyone else already mentioned them I'm not going to bother.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:13 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Just put yourself in Wilson's shoes.

You are to deliver the Package to the Customer and collect a lot of money. The Package is a few days from being ready. You're in charge of determining the exact day when it is ready. So you can warn the Customer in advance when and where he should send his friends to help you with the heavy lifting...

Then suddenly everything around you goes boom, and you know you are a bad guy, and this mess has probably something to do with it... Given that, I can admit that Wilson's wound was probably self-inflicted. And he showed a lot of pluck and wit through the whole business... but he had no chance to make it to the shuttle bay before Miranda.

If Wilson instigates the situation with the Mechs, he can wait for Miranda to leave or be killed.  I'm pretty sure there were other shuttles in the bay, I'd have to start a new playthrough tonight to be sure.

[CroGamer002]

Mesina2 wrote...

He was a Shadow Broker agent.

From LotSB Legion dossier.

(Note: We are still unable to directly tap geth communications. Cerberus decryption programs look promising, but Wilson´s death will make integrating new agents onto Minuteman difficult.)

Hmh, people.
I just gave you answer why Wilson did it.
No point of this thread anymore.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Mesina2 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

He was a Shadow Broker agent.

From LotSB Legion dossier.

(Note: We are still unable to directly tap geth communications. Cerberus decryption programs look promising, but Wilson´s death will make integrating new agents onto Minuteman difficult.)

Hmh, people.
I just gave you answer why Wilson did it.
No point of this thread anymore.

Reread the posts... this is a discussion that goes beyond "why" to "did he?" and "how?" as well.

[thompsmt]

His motivations could be like any number of spies in Real Life. Lack of money, fury at not be recognized by superiors, and possibly ideology (although that wouldn't apply to a non-ideological creature like the Shadow Broker.)



Read these below:

Robert Hanssen- the movie 'Breach' was about this chump.

Aldrich Ames

Kim Philby

John Walker.

[SimonTheFrog]

Oh btw, even if Wilson was on SB's payroll doesn't necessarily mean that SB ordered the attack. It just again underlines that Wilson was naughty boy.



And i quite like the idea that Shepard was supposed to stay alive because in his coma he wouldn't be targeted by the mechs. Then the SB involvement would indeed make sense. I'm glad i punched him in the face, then.

[LorDC]

Exile Isan wrote...
As for Zulu's theory, I can't buy it. Miranda is far to cautious to throw away two years of hard work so casually to "test Shepard", even on the orders of TIM. There are other things that keep me from believing it, but since everyone else already mentioned them I'm not going to bother.

Also TIM is very worried about Shepard. I don't really think he would order such "practice". Even if he was confident in Shepard's abilities when you let loose band of mechs on man who was dead for two years lots of things could go wrong. Such test doesn't really fall into "see to it so we don't loose him" category.

[Sursion]

Wilson was working for the Shadow Broker. The collectors wanted a body, not a pile of meat, so Wilson rebuilt Shepard (probably with the help of the all-knowing Shadow Broker).

[Zulu_DFA]

LorDC wrote...
Also TIM is very worried about Shepard.

Yeah, so worried, that he deliberately sends Shepard into a trap at some point. I am sure, the whole plan to clean the house was his, Miranda just executed it. TIM even says it: "Miranda did everything as I expected of her." What he could have expected of her if he hadn't known of the coming attack beforehand?

TIM knew Wilson was a traitor, beforehand. And knew it so well, to the point that he had no interest in interrogating him.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 novembre 2010 - 09:40 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

The difference between theorizing to fill in holes, and wild speculation, is that theorizing sticks to explaining facts in evidence, while wild speculating invents "facts" not in evidence.

"Miranda did it" is well off into the realm of wild speculation -- there is nothing in evidence which requires "Miranda did it" to explain. 


"TIM knew Wilson was a traitor beforehand."   Really?  I haven't seen anything to indicate that and I haven't seen anything that requires such a theory to explain.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 novembre 2010 - 11:22 .

[Soahfreako]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wilson wasn't trying to kill Shep. Miranda hacked the mechs to give him a live fire test. And kill Wilson.

Where does it say Miranda was the one that hacked the mechs? I doubt Miranda would deliberately kill off staff members just to test Shepard.

[Theoristitis]

Before the Lair DLC, I decided to believe for kicks that TIM set Wilson and Miranda against each other. Loyalty testing or just trying to get rid of them or a fire test (as Zulu suggested) set by TIM himself (see how Shep deals with the chaos of top agents trying to wreck each other). Maybe there was a level of Miranda's ice-queen-ship versus Wilson's frustration with her. Maybe Miranda activated the mechs and Wilson one-upped her by jamming her signal. Maybe Wilson wanted Shep dead, or maybe he wanted Shep's implants, or maybe he thought Miranda was the traitor. Layers within layers. Such fun.



...then it turned out that Wilson was working for the Shadow Broker. Less speculation possible

[Killjoy Cutter]

Soahfreako wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wilson wasn't trying to kill Shep. Miranda hacked the mechs to give him a live fire test. And kill Wilson.

Where does it say Miranda was the one that hacked the mechs? I doubt Miranda would deliberately kill off staff members just to test Shepard.

It doesn't say it anywhere. 

And yeah, Miranda's a ruthless princess, but killing off her own staff?  Not her style.