101 réponses à ce sujet

[ODST 3]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

I saw nothing in the LotSB files to suggest it was the Shadow Broker. The assumption that it was him is built entirely off the fact that TSB and TIM are enemies.
Zulu's laughable theory is even worse then BioWare putting this whole thing together to give us a tutorial and establish Miranda as a cold hard **** then expecting us to completely forget about it as soon as we get on the shuttle.

This post is laughable for two reasons:

1. It calls my theory laughable.

2. It shows that the poster is ignorant:

This is a note the Shadow Broker wrote for himself on top of the Legion's dossier:

Note: We are still unable to directly tap geth communications. Cerberus decryption programs look promising, but Wilson´s death will make integrating new agents onto Minuteman difficult

Decide for yourself, who's payroll Wilson was on.

AntiChri5 OWNED

[Soahfreako]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wilson wasn't trying to kill Shep. Miranda hacked the mechs to give him a live fire test. And kill Wilson.

Where does it say Miranda was the one that hacked the mechs? I doubt Miranda would deliberately kill off staff members just to test Shepard.

It doesn't say it anywhere. 

And yeah, Miranda's a ruthless princess, but killing off her own staff?  Not her style. 

Exactly, there's no way Miranda set the mechs loose.

[mcsupersport]

Ummm, important fact, Wilson was the only live person in the mech control area, supposedly hurt by mechs that are no where in sight.



It could have been Miranda doing a cleansing, but I find the idea that she is that stupid with personnel completely at odds with her intelligence.



Now, Wilson using the mechs to kill everyone, while Shep sleeps and then escaping with a comatose Shepard to SB pick-up location to be more in line with facts. It is also possible, Wilson would have signaled a ship to come to the station once everyone was killed and pick up Shepard and have Wilson hide out or be injured to try to maintain Cerberus status.

[Sajuro]

Phaedon wrote...

Wilson ? House MD's colleague ?

Yes, Shepard killed Amber on Feros.

[SmokePants]

Wilson trying to murder the entire base is clearly what BioWare intended, whether it makes complete sense or not. It's at least the most plausible explanation. The how and why really don't matter to me. The situation was officially put to rest when Miranda killed him. If a party wants Sheperd alive that badly, naturally, an opposing party would want him dead. That's good enough for me.

Modifié par SmokePants, 25 novembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wilson wasn't trying to kill Shep. Miranda hacked the mechs to give him a live fire test. And kill Wilson.

Why would Miranda do a live fire test before Shepard is completely healed? If it was mainly to get rid of Wilson, then there are better ways.

[RiouHotaru]

The Shadow Broker wanted to give Shepard's corpse to the Collectors. Wilson tries to kill you so he has a body to send over. It's really just that simple.

[vinak]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wilson wasn't trying to kill Shep. Miranda hacked the mechs to give him a live fire test. And kill Wilson.

Why
would Miranda do a live fire test before Shepard is completely healed?
If it was mainly to get rid of Wilson, then there are better
ways.

She wouldn't. Zulu's assessment is flawed. not enough information to support his assertions...ignores evidence.



Live fire test is insufficient motive to endanger Shepard, especially after investing two years, and billions of credits into his/her revival. Also lacks motive to kill Wilson. Miranda only finds out about his betrayal after the mechs attack.



- Miranda tries to help Shepard
- communications are blocked
- mechs attack Miranda.
- Shepard finds Jacob
- Jacob manages to gain com link with Wilson despite communication block
- Shepard and Jacob find Wilson alone in a room filled with dead Cerberus workers with minor wound to leg next to medical station with no mechs in sight.

it all adds up.

We can look at Wilson's dialogue when you first meet him as well. He immediately tries to get on your good side. He goes into detail trying to explain his circumstances and gets defensive when questioned about it. Further, he tries to cast suspicion on someone else. Then negotiates his position when challenged on that as well. You only do this when you are trying to hide something. - also quick to try to leave, but that can be explained by circumstances as well.

Wilson has plenty of motive to throw the project out the window. Wilson most likely started out dedicated to the Project, but with Miranda's under-appreciation for his work, and his apparent financial situation finally pushed him towards betraying Cerberus.

The Shadow Broker wants to recover Shepard's body for the Collectors, and to obtain information on the Lazarus project. Wilson accepted a bribe. It's that simple.

Miranda lacks sufficient motive to endanger Shepard. She has dedicated two years of her life in order to bring Shepard back to life. Cerberus has invested billions into Shepards revival. She has a lot of pressure on her shoulders to succeed. Miranda would not endanger the project for the sake of testing Shepard before he/she is completely ready for combat. Nor would she resort to such reckless methods to kill a single person. She would just shoot him like she demonstrated.

Modifié par vinak, 25 novembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[atheelogos]

I don't think he was trying to kill him. He was trying to keep him asleep so he could give his body to the shadow broker without resistance from shep.

[Zulu_DFA]

vinak wrote...

Miranda only finds out about his betrayal after the mechs attack.

- Miranda tries to help Shepard
- communications are blocked
- mechs attack Miranda.
- Shepard finds Jacob
- Jacob manages to gain com link with Wilson despite communication block
- Shepard and Jacob find Wilson alone in a room filled with dead Cerberus workers with minor wound to leg next to medical station with no mechs in sight.

it all adds up.

The only thing that doesn't add up is how could Miranda know all that, if she was blocked from the system, and fighting "an army of mechs"?

Miranda lacks sufficient motive to endanger Shepard.

The only motive she needs to do anything is an order from TIM.

Soahfreako wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wilson wasn't trying to kill Shep. Miranda hacked the mechs to give him a live fire test. And kill Wilson.

Where does it say Miranda was the one that hacked the mechs? I doubt Miranda would deliberately kill off staff members just to test Shepard.

As I said, the plan was TIM's. Wilson was the Shadow Broker's top shot at Cerberus, but not the only one. There surely were other people in Cerberus who'd caught TIM's bad eye. "Liability" they call them. He could order their rotation to the Lazarus station prior to the attack. Most valuable and reliable people could have been removed from the station, as the project was about to be over.

Such places as secret space stations must have very strict schedule for the personnel, so it was entirely predictable who would be where at any given time, and the attack could be set up accordingly. The remaining reliable personnel could "accidentally happen" to be near the evac area, and flee, while all the tratiors were cut off. Jacob was set up to be on Shepard's escape path to provide support. Simulations were run to estimate Shepard's chances and amend the scenario to provide just enough pressure on him. Afterall, that's what the tests are for -- to test. Should Shepard fail it -- a pity, but the Lazarus Projuect had always been a gamble. Even Miranda feels it that way.

Miranda could set it all up the way she wanted. Wilson, on the contrary, without clearence had far less ability to schedule his own and anyone else's survival in the attack.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 novembre 2010 - 01:02 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

I'm guessing you think that the CIA and the Mafia teamed up to kill JFK, too.



Whatever.

[Zulu_DFA]

Why would CIA need Mafia for that?

And why would the CIA want to kill Kennedy?

Surely it was just one frustrated guy with a rifle. Then another frustrated guy killed the first one. Then he got even more frustrated and fell ill and died. This is the simplest and therefore the most plausible explanation.

Whatrever.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 novembre 2010 - 03:30 .

[eldav]

öhmm...was it not Johnnson ?

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

I had never thought that Miranda was the one to hack the mechs but it would make sense. It's funny she "loses" communication with Shepard just before he runs into Jacob (who is oblivious). She trusts Jacob to watch his back in case Shepard isn't fully functionally healed. Miranda, Jacob, and Shepard are the only assets in the base TIM really cares about and trusts so he cleans house (knowing Wilson is a traitor and killing off other team members just in case). TIM orders this all to go down a few days before Wilson thinks Shepard is fully healed outmaneuvering the SB. It may not be what happens, but I honestly see it to be the most likely course of action.



TIM >> SB.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why would CIA need Mafia for that?

And why would the CIA want to kill Kennedy?

Surely it was just one frustrated guy with a rifle. Then another frustrated guy killed the first one. Then he got even more frustrated and fell ill and died. This is the simplest and therefore the most plausible explanation.

Whatrever.

Not that it's relevant, and I don't support conspiracy theories, but forensic evidence suggests that 2 bullets were used to kill JFK, and if I remember correctly, they were fired from different angles. The initial autopsy was a mess anyway, they had oncologists conduct it.

Not trying to argue a point, just giving some food for thought.

[Terraneaux]

You guys have to remember, Zulu thinks that TIM is the omnicompetent spymaster behind all of the games, and is the secret master of the alliance, and everything that happens in the games is just part of TIM's 'master plan.' He doesn't take it too kindly when you use Occam's Razor to tear apart his little masturbatory fantasies.

[Soahfreako]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

vinak wrote...

Miranda only finds out about his betrayal after the mechs attack.

- Miranda tries to help Shepard
- communications are blocked
- mechs attack Miranda.
- Shepard finds Jacob
- Jacob manages to gain com link with Wilson despite communication block
- Shepard and Jacob find Wilson alone in a room filled with dead Cerberus workers with minor wound to leg next to medical station with no mechs in sight.

it all adds up.

The only thing that doesn't add up is how could Miranda know all that, if she was blocked from the system, and fighting "an army of mechs"?

Miranda lacks sufficient motive to endanger Shepard.

The only motive she needs to do anything is an order from TIM.

Soahfreako wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wilson wasn't trying to kill Shep. Miranda hacked the mechs to give him a live fire test. And kill Wilson.

Where does it say Miranda was the one that hacked the mechs? I doubt Miranda would deliberately kill off staff members just to test Shepard.

As I said, the plan was TIM's. Wilson was the Shadow Broker's top shot at Cerberus, but not the only one. There surely were other people in Cerberus who'd caught TIM's bad eye. "Liability" they call them. He could order their rotation to the Lazarus station prior to the attack. Most valuable and reliable people could have been removed from the station, as the project was about to be over.

Such places as secret space stations must have very strict schedule for the personnel, so it was entirely predictable who would be where at any given time, and the attack could be set up accordingly. The remaining reliable personnel could "accidentally happen" to be near the evac area, and flee, while all the tratiors were cut off. Jacob was set up to be on Shepard's escape path to provide support. Simulations were run to estimate Shepard's chances and amend the scenario to provide just enough pressure on him. Afterall, that's what the tests are for -- to test. Should Shepard fail it -- a pity, but the Lazarus Projuect had always been a gamble. Even Miranda feels it that way.

Miranda could set it all up the way she wanted. Wilson, on the contrary, without clearence had far less ability to schedule his own and anyone else's survival in the attack.

Because, clearly, everyone on the station were traitors except jacob and miranda as there were no survivors. Yup. Makes perfect sense.

[Soahfreako]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I had never thought that Miranda was the one to hack the mechs but it would make sense. It's funny she "loses" communication with Shepard just before he runs into Jacob (who is oblivious). She trusts Jacob to watch his back in case Shepard isn't fully functionally healed. Miranda, Jacob, and Shepard are the only assets in the base TIM really cares about and trusts so he cleans house (knowing Wilson is a traitor and killing off other team members just in case). TIM orders this all to go down a few days before Wilson thinks Shepard is fully healed outmaneuvering the SB. It may not be what happens, but I honestly see it to be the most likely course of action.

TIM >> SB.

Which is why SB had tabs on TIM every day of his life. The fact that he was able to tell how many cigarettes he smokes a day shows that the SB has millions of more connections than TIM. TIM can't hold a candle to the SB.

[Dean_the_Young]

Soahfreako wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I had never thought that Miranda was the one to hack the mechs but it would make sense. It's funny she "loses" communication with Shepard just before he runs into Jacob (who is oblivious). She trusts Jacob to watch his back in case Shepard isn't fully functionally healed. Miranda, Jacob, and Shepard are the only assets in the base TIM really cares about and trusts so he cleans house (knowing Wilson is a traitor and killing off other team members just in case). TIM orders this all to go down a few days before Wilson thinks Shepard is fully healed outmaneuvering the SB. It may not be what happens, but I honestly see it to be the most likely course of action.

TIM >> SB.

Which is why SB had tabs on TIM every day of his life. The fact that he was able to tell how many cigarettes he smokes a day shows that the SB has millions of more connections than TIM. TIM can't hold a candle to the SB.

Of course. The Shadow Broker's victory was the most obvious demonstration of the complete and total-

Hm? Sorry?

[Computer_God91]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
 "self-inflicted wound" version of the story takes a lot more stretch of mind to be believe.

I don't know what people have said about the self inflicted wound theory but I'd say that your theories are about 90% bullsh!t you squirt out in five seconds or you have a really hard time understanding anything and make sh!t up so you can understand it.

Wilson was a traitor, Obvious. Miranda and TIM didn't plan the mech attack. thats just stupid, spend billions of credits and hey lets blow it the hell up to kill one man, No. He shot himself in the leg to make himself look like a victim and so he'd gather less suspicion. That I can tell you is fact or close to it. You are your ridiculous theories are just that, ridiculous. It takes more stretch of the mind to believe what 90% of your theories are.

[Zulu_DFA]

Terraneaux wrote...

You guys have to remember, Zulu thinks that TIM is the omnicompetent spymaster behind all of the games, and is the secret master of the alliance, and everything that happens in the games is just part of TIM's 'master plan.' He doesn't take it too kindly when you use Occam's Razor to tear apart his little masturbatory fantasies.

Wow! You said "Occam's Razor" and "masturbatory fantasies" in one sentence! I think I should retreat now in awe, before I am utterly defeated by your raw intellectual power!

Oh, wait a minute...

Soahfreako wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

vinak wrote...

Miranda only finds out about his betrayal after the mechs attack.

- Miranda tries to help Shepard
- communications are blocked
- mechs attack Miranda.
- Shepard finds Jacob
- Jacob manages to gain com link with Wilson despite communication block
- Shepard and Jacob find Wilson alone in a room filled with dead Cerberus workers with minor wound to leg next to medical station with no mechs in sight.

it all adds up.

The only thing that doesn't add up is how could Miranda know all that, if she was blocked from the system, and fighting "an army of mechs"?

Miranda lacks sufficient motive to endanger Shepard.

The only motive she needs to do anything is an order from TIM.

Soahfreako wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wilson wasn't trying to kill Shep. Miranda hacked the mechs to give him a live fire test. And kill Wilson.

Where does it say Miranda was the one that hacked the mechs? I doubt Miranda would deliberately kill off staff members just to test Shepard.

As I said, the plan was TIM's. Wilson was the Shadow Broker's top shot at Cerberus, but not the only one. There surely were other people in Cerberus who'd caught TIM's bad eye. "Liability" they call them. He could order their rotation to the Lazarus station prior to the attack. Most valuable and reliable people could have been removed from the station, as the project was about to be over.

Such places as secret space stations must have very strict schedule for the personnel, so it was entirely predictable who would be where at any given time, and the attack could be set up accordingly. The remaining reliable personnel could "accidentally happen" to be near the evac area, and flee, while all the tratiors were cut off. Jacob was set up to be on Shepard's escape path to provide support. Simulations were run to estimate Shepard's chances and amend the scenario to provide just enough pressure on him. Afterall, that's what the tests are for -- to test. Should Shepard fail it -- a pity, but the Lazarus Projuect had always been a gamble. Even Miranda feels it that way.

Miranda could set it all up the way she wanted. Wilson, on the contrary, without clearence had far less ability to schedule his own and anyone else's survival in the attack.

Because, clearly, everyone on the station were traitors except jacob and miranda as there were no survivors. Yup. Makes perfect sense.

There were no survivors remaining when Shepard reached the shuttle bay. Miranda knew it for sure so she (such a carebear for her staff) would refuse to go look for them if Shepard suggested.

Soahfreako wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I had never thought that Miranda was the one to hack the mechs but it would make sense. It's funny she "loses" communication with Shepard just before he runs into Jacob (who is oblivious). She trusts Jacob to watch his back in case Shepard isn't fully functionally healed. Miranda, Jacob, and Shepard are the only assets in the base TIM really cares about and trusts so he cleans house (knowing Wilson is a traitor and killing off other team members just in case). TIM orders this all to go down a few days before Wilson thinks Shepard is fully healed outmaneuvering the SB. It may not be what happens, but I honestly see it to be the most likely course of action.

TIM >> SB.

Which is why SB had tabs on TIM every day of his life. The fact that he was able to tell how many cigarettes he smokes a day shows that the SB has millions of more connections than TIM. TIM can't hold a candle to the SB.

Which is why the Shadow Broker is now a little blue Asari who has a history of working for Cerberus.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 novembre 2010 - 10:34 .

[Computer_God91]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I had never thought that Miranda was the one to hack the mechs but it would make sense. It's funny she "loses" communication with Shepard just before he runs into Jacob (who is oblivious). She trusts Jacob to watch his back in case Shepard isn't fully functionally healed. Miranda, Jacob, and Shepard are the only assets in the base TIM really cares about and trusts so he cleans house (knowing Wilson is a traitor and killing off other team members just in case). TIM orders this all to go down a few days before Wilson thinks Shepard is fully healed outmaneuvering the SB. It may not be what happens, but I honestly see it to be the most likely course of action.

TIM >> SB.

Which is why SB had tabs on TIM every day of his life. The fact that he was able to tell how many cigarettes he smokes a day shows that the SB has millions of more connections than TIM. TIM can't hold a candle to the SB.

Of course. The Shadow Broker's victory was the most obvious demonstration of the complete and total-

Hm? Sorry?

Illusive Man would be dead too if he hadn't lucked out when Kai Leng saved his ass.

[Computer_God91]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Which is why the Shadow Broker is now a little blue Asari who has a history of working for Cerberus.

She worked for them one time to save shepard, thats hardly a history.

[Zulu_DFA]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

I had never thought that Miranda was the one to hack the mechs but it would make sense. It's funny she "loses" communication with Shepard just before he runs into Jacob (who is oblivious). She trusts Jacob to watch his back in case Shepard isn't fully functionally healed. Miranda, Jacob, and Shepard are the only assets in the base TIM really cares about and trusts so he cleans house (knowing Wilson is a traitor and killing off other team members just in case). TIM orders this all to go down a few days before Wilson thinks Shepard is fully healed outmaneuvering the SB. It may not be what happens, but I honestly see it to be the most likely course of action.

TIM >> SB.

Which is why SB had tabs on TIM every day of his life. The fact that he was able to tell how many cigarettes he smokes a day shows that the SB has millions of more connections than TIM. TIM can't hold a candle to the SB.

Of course. The Shadow Broker's victory was the most obvious demonstration of the complete and total-

Hm? Sorry?

Illusive Man would be dead too if he hadn't lucked out when Kai Leng saved his ass.

Pays to be prepared.

[Zulu_DFA]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Which is why the Shadow Broker is now a little blue Asari who has a history of working for Cerberus.

She worked for them one time to save shepard, thats hardly a history.

Then she worked for them again, when she helped their agent (you) recruit a couple of badasses who happend to be in her neighborhood.

Then she worked for them again, when she, you know, took out the Shadow Broker, with the help of their agent, of course (oh, it was you again!)...