190 réponses à ce sujet

[daedalus304]

I'd never say it translates into an automatic win for humanity, it does translate into a nightmare for the Turian military that would see them with substantial losses.

[AKOdin]

daedalus304 wrote...

So look under the section of the First Contact War, where you got your comment about the diplomatic solution being fortunate for humanity and keep reading to the end of said FCW section...

Should be the top of page 9 in the codex book.

I have the PC version, and it doesn't list pages. It is organized by entries. The Codex entry for FCW section ends with "Fortunately for Humanity, the FCW was ended with a diplomatic solution." I don't recall anything about the Turians being thought invincible prior to contact with Humanity.

if the Turians had completed mobilizing their military against the humans, I expect conflicts would have been similar to the US Spanish War, phillipino theater. Humanity hadn't even figured out biotics yet, for pete's sake....

[Inquisitor Recon]

Amazing drawing on page 4. My question is what would the turians do with their new slave-race if Hackett didn't pull off something amazing and save the day?



Manual labor kinda sucks... but maybe you could volunteer into some sort of auxiliary military unit. The kind that are expendable and whose sole purpose is to make the enemy use as must ammunition killing them as possible.

[AKOdin]

The Council has apparently quarantined races deemed to violent to be space faring to their homeworld (LotSB, Yahg). Could have done that to the humans. I don't think slavery is tolerated in Citadel Space. Illium is technically not bound by Citadel laws, isn't it?

[Gabey5]

No. we ere epic noobs with inferior tech

[atheelogos]

look I love humans and everything, but the turians would have kicked our **** back then. The better question I think is can they beat us now?

[devilsgrin]

thats a far better question atheelogos.

its blatantly obvious that at FCW the Systems Alliance would have been annihilated by the Turian Heirarchy.

"Now" however, things would not be anywhere near so simple.

I think considering humanity's ingenuity, and adaptability, the inferior numbers (which is still the case) would matter less. I'd suspect a LONG protracted conflict with brutal war-crimes committed by both sides.

The only way this war ends "less" bloody is the Salarians and Asari stepping in to stop the action, or take a side. Which they would always choose together... both species know that only together can they stop the conflict, since choosing either side would result in the conflict escalating to catastrophic proportions, utterly destroying all that the Council had ever wrought.

I suspect Salarians and Asari would choose the race they thought would be most likely to "win" after all was said and done. And even better than we, the Salarians and Asari would know who to pick. The alternative is to help the side that has greater benefit to the galaxy as a whole... and that is certainly the Turians. Humanity has proven its barbarity, and its alarming ability to adapt to new technology. I reckon the Council races fear humanity in some ways, since they could ultimately be surpassed by this upstart species from the Sol System.

[General User]

Smaller nations have often defeated larger, “stronger” ones in human history, when those smaller nations get outside support. If the WTA had gone on, with the turians 100% committed to victory, they probably would have won, eventually, unless humanity received outside help.



Ironically the asari and salarians are the most likely source of this help. They already sided with humanity at the negotiating table, facilitating a peace treaty heavily in humanity’s favor.



Moreover, both the asari and the salarians (especially the salarians) have a proven history or “reigning in” powerful militaries that have grown beyond control. If the turians decided to prosecute a war against humanity regardless of the opposition of their fellow Council members, that is exactly what the turians would be, an uncontrolled militaristic race.



Humans had done nothing to warrant the turian attack. The turians never even attempted to communicate with humanity, except with their guns. It was the turians who acted with brutality and savagery.

[Count Viceroy]

No we wouldn't have won. The 'war' started only 9 years after humans found the cache on mars, there's wouldn't be enough time to adapt the new tech. But humans are special. 

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 25 novembre 2010 - 02:56 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Ironically, I had pondered this earlier in the week, ultimately concluding that no humanity would not come out the victor. Frankly, I do not believe even according for the technological advancement of the human species in the Mass Effect lore, we would be superior tactically. Our only advantage would be a complete lack of knowledge of humanity from the Turians, yet likewise we suffer a similar qualm in strategizing against them. Numerically the Turian army boasts a significantly superior military and technology we would have fathomed at such an interval. It is entirely probable of them discovering Earth and judging from prior indication of Turian efficiency, they would have leveled the entire planet, effectively concluding the war. Even had the Systems Alliance held them at bay for a sizable duration, it would be a matter of when not if they discovered Earth.

This is not to suggest the Turian military would not suffer immense causalities because I imagine the lose would be severe, albeit nothing they could not recover from within the subsequent years. In the end, we simply could not combat a threat we knew absolutely nothing about. If the Council were to assist the Turians, the end result would be catastrophic for humanity.

This scenario widely differs upon the beginning of Mass Effect, where humanity is significantly more advanced and knowledge of alien life is widely known. At this juncture a war between either would have such immense loss of life, neither would be seen the victor as I firmly believe a war would result in the death of both species regardless of who 'won'.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 25 novembre 2010 - 03:57 .

[Teknor]

Count Viceroy wrote...

But humans are special. 

The game is made by humans for humans what do you expect ?

[Soahfreako]

Katamariguy wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Without doubt.

THIS IS SPARTA!!!

"Using morale-boosting battle-cries will secure our dominance in the galaxy; against the reapers and beyond."
                                                                                                                                                                         -TIM
*snip*

Epic picture is epic.

[Soahfreako]

GodWood wrote...

Despite having achieved space flight near 1500 years before hand, having the benefit of exposure to other species technology, having had more time to develop superior technology and having an entire society built around militarism humans would of won.
Why?
Because in the ME universe humans are special

1500?! Humans BARELY achieved space flight before finding the prothean ruins on Mars. This games set in the (~)2180s. So according to your logic humans discovered space flight in 680s AD. Hmm...

[Soahfreako]

LET ME CLEAR SOME THINGS UP. The Turians, as we all know, were around prothean technology a LOT longer than humans. This means that on their ships they would have mass accelerator cannons, while us lowly humans probably still had missles. In a fleet on fleet fight (I'm talking the entire Turian fleet here, not the patrols that were intially sent) Humans would probably score a few kills, but the Turians would've most definitely eradicated the entire human fleet. Not to mention that humans had NEVER fought a war in space. They had no experience at all. While the Turians had the best fleet at the time, and would most assuredly have much experience with this kind of combat. One would only need to look at how one of the said patrols was able to take over the planet. A PATROL. While it took a lot, maybe too much, effort to retake it on humanity's part. This is also because it was fought on a planet, where humans have had the most experience fighting on. If you STILL think humanity would've won, you're either in denial or just that naive. Must we really have a hostile alien takeover for people to realize this?

[Anacronian Stryx]

Soahfreako wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Despite having achieved space flight near 1500 years before hand, having the benefit of exposure to other species technology, having had more time to develop superior technology and having an entire society built around militarism humans would of won.
Why?
Because in the ME universe humans are special

1500?! Humans BARELY achieved space flight before finding the prothean ruins on Mars. This games set in the (~)2180s. So according to your logic humans discovered space flight in 680s AD. Hmm...

You know he's talking about the Turians right?...oh well.

[Soahfreako]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Soahfreako wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Despite having achieved space flight near 1500 years before hand, having the benefit of exposure to other species technology, having had more time to develop superior technology and having an entire society built around militarism humans would of won.
Why?
Because in the ME universe humans are special

1500?! Humans BARELY achieved space flight before finding the prothean ruins on Mars. This games set in the (~)2180s. So according to your logic humans discovered space flight in 680s AD. Hmm...

You know he's talking about the Turians right?...oh well.

If he is, I apologize. It definitely seems like he's talking about humans.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm fairly sure it was far more than a patrol that occupied Shaxni. The Turians weren't mobilized, but nor were their patrols able to occupy planets at will.

[Soahfreako]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm fairly sure it was far more than a patrol that occupied Shaxni. The Turians weren't mobilized, but nor were their patrols able to occupy planets at will.

It was more than a patrol, yes, but it wasn't a full on strike force either. Couldn't think of another word during that rant. Lol

[Phaedon]

atheelogos wrote...

look I love humans and everything, but the turians would have kicked our **** back then. The better question I think is can they beat us now?

They still would.

Dem dreadnoughts. 

[Count Viceroy]

Phaedon wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

look I love humans and everything, but the turians would have kicked our **** back then. The better question I think is can they beat us now?

They still would.

Dem dreadnoughts. 

Not so sure. We have carriers. History has a habit or repeating it self.

It *could* be battleships vs air craft carriers all over again....

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:17 .

[Phaedon]

You are giving too much credit to the carriers. The carrier themselves could be destroyed by a single hit by even a frigate, and the fighters/interceptors that they carry would get taken down by the Dreadnought's GARDIAN system.

[Count Viceroy]

As the description suggests, if the carriers themselves are close enough to be hit, they are too close. I'm not saying it's a straight up carrier vs battle ship, humany has 'naughts too. I'd bet the carriers could make up the difference, or at least even the odds a bit. 

There's not been any sort of data or codex entry regarding the effectiveness of the carriers so it's hard to tell. GARDIAN systems are worn down eventually though, its the same on any ship, regardless of size.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:31 .

[Phaedon]

Yes, they are, and that's the point of the 'suicide fighters' anyway. I just think that the Hierarchy's significant advantage in numbers (not only in dreadnoughts but other ships as well) and discipline could beat the SA.

But there's no point in arguing about that,anyway, we can't know for a fact what would happen. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:36 .

[CARL_DF90]

Some people seem to be forgetting a few things. The first would be the fact that humans were the first species after the krogan that were able to achieve a military victory against the turians when reinforcements arrived to liberate the colony taken by the turians. They were surprised by humans unorthodox approaches to military tactics, adaptability, and novel technologies to reinforce military units. Turians on the other hand, despite their discipline, numbers, and years ahead in space, are not very adaptable, and tend to NOT think outside the box until its too late. In a lot of ways, tradition comes before practicality to them. It usually takes a giant boot to the head before turians change their ways. Look at what happened with Saren and Sovereign. So, to answer the heading, would humanity have won the First Contact War? Probably not have won. It would have seen it as a long and protracted conflict ending in stalemate.

[Dean_the_Young]

Soahfreako wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm fairly sure it was far more than a patrol that occupied Shaxni. The Turians weren't mobilized, but nor were their patrols able to occupy planets at will.

It was more than a patrol, yes, but it wasn't a full on strike force either. Couldn't think of another word during that rant. Lol

A stand-by expeditionary force.

The Turians sent a regular military group, gave a lump (took a small colony largely by surprize), and then took their lumps (not expecting human reinforcements).

It was never depicted as a bloodbath or a walkover. When the Turians had surprise, they were able to beat a smaller, underprepared force. (A largely alone human colony.) When the the humans returned, they had the numbers and initiative.

The Heirarchy hadn't mobilized to full-scale total war, but they also weren't half-assing it either on competency or size. They didn't simply waltz in with superior tech and take on great hordes of superior numbered humans with their better Turian tech, nor were they defeated merely by surprise.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:50 .