148 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Serial killers are morally good.

[Wolfy2449]

Phaedon wrote...

Serial killers are morally good.

Not morinth, she isnt interest in stupid ppl thus leaving the majoritiy of the world intact.

But i like someone posts about Morinth bring a tragic character, she is
The main question is that if she actually believes(of ourse she doesnt know) about shepard surviving the sex encounter with her or she is just trying to trick him

[Dean_the_Young]

I still have yet to hear a good reason why 'neural shock capacitors' or some such investment couldn't be made to let Shepard live through it.



Of all the cybernetic upgrades he gets, you think that'd be a big one.

[pf17456]

I think Morinth was under utilized and mischaracterized. It was stated during the game that she was beyond rehabilitation but all things considered Morinth could have been an excellent excutioner and functioned well on death row or as a hit woman or as a spy. Her talents were wasted.

[Dean_the_Young]

I think ordering a woman to sleep with people she doesn't find interesting is, well, a bit missing the point on a number of levels. 'Oh, you like sex, don't you? Have sex with these thugs/punks!'



Though a more ceremonial executioner has potential.







But fully agreed that she was under-utilized and poorly developed.

[Chuvvy]

Sociopath. She only shows a few symptom of it though. Killing without remorse and manipulation. She seems to be able to empathize, she's not paranoid, I've yet to see her attack boo. Very strange almost Hannibal Lectery. At any rate you can't help a Sociopath, at least we haven't found away. You have to be born with some predisposition to it. Then if you also have a terrible childhood you might become one.



My mother is a psychologist.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Copy/pasted from TVTropes, "Complete Monster" section. Yes, even TVTropes is not buying the victim act.

"Morinth. As an ardat-yakshi, she has a genetic defect that kills anyone she has sex with. This also makes the act of sex addicting to her, so she set off across the galaxy in a sexual killing spree. She seduces her prey with her wiles and psychic powers, getting close and intimate with them until they're more or less brainwashed, then she kills them in the act. She doesn't regret her actions, and actually relishes in them. When confronted, she actually has the gall to pull the victim card! (Which is only technically true. She had no choice in becoming an ardat-yakshi, but she did have the choice in succumbing to her addiction.)
# Samara, Morinth's mother, who has made it her life's goal to kill Morinth, has spent several hundred years trying to find her. She tells Shepard of a time when she managed to track her to a small village on a remote planet. Morinth had brainwashed the entire village into worshipping her as a goddess. And when Samara tried to confront Morinth, they all (except for the youngest children) attacked her. And because Samara is a Knight Templar whose Code states that she must kill anyone who attacks her... Morinth forced her mother to wipe out an entire village. Somehow that is worse than if she just killed them herself.

# Also, you can kill Samara and recruit Morinth into your party instead. And you can have sex with her, knowing of her condition. The cutscene basically goes through a bunch of "are you sure?" responses (with one of the lines you can say to Morinth being "No thanks, I want to live."). When you finally do the deed...guess what happens. Just guess."

Why are we treating a wiki site as an authoritative source? All it means is that some people who think one way wrote it on the interwebs. It's rather telling, for example, that the writer put all the blame on Samara wiping out a village on Morinth. Morinth never forced Samara to kill them, or even to follow her.

We are not, it is merely another opinion on the subject, and in spite of your argument. She is fact does force Samara to kill the villagers if you bothered to read the section. Morinth is well aware of the Justicar code in Asari culture, wherein if a Justicar is attacked, she must kill the aggressor. Whether or not we wish to debate Samara's morality is another issue. It does not alter Morinth's primary motivation.

Why anyone would defend Morinth is beyond me. The woman is psychotic with a penchant for murder. There is no redeeming qualities in this combination. I cite it a similar, albeit significantly more villainous example. Luca Blight of Suikoden II. His childhood is horrifying, yet his actions as an adult is arguably the most sadistic in video game history. To such a degree all sympathy is lost. Morinth is essentially the same.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 25 novembre 2010 - 08:05 .

[Xilizhra]

I still have yet to hear a good reason why 'neural shock capacitors' or some such investment couldn't be made to let Shepard live through it.

Damn it, why didn't I think of that? If I ever write something Morinth-related, I'll credit you for this idea.

Why anyone would defend Morinth is beyond me.

Well, from her point of view, she clearly felt that she had no real choice; confinement would be worse than death. It's also possible that she was already addicted to sex at that point...

Also, regarding the village situation. It's true that while Morinth bears some responsibility for their deaths, Samara has more of it, as she still chooses to follow the Code.

[Dean_the_Young]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
We are not, it is merely another opinion on the subject, and in spite of your argument. She is fact does force Samara to kill the villagers if you bothered to read the section. Morinth is well aware of the Justicar code in Asari culture, wherein if a Justicar is attacked, she must kill the aggressor. Whether or not we wish to debate Samara's morality is another issue. It does not alter Morinth's primary motivation.

Morinth never made Samara become a Justicar, or swear to hunt her down, or actually make her hunt her down. or force her to use lethal force. To condemn Samara's actions on Morinth absolves Samara of all responsibility for her own choices, upto and including continuing to follow the Code. 'I was just following orders' wasn't an acceptable excuse before, and it isn't one now.

We also get no indication that Morinth forced these people to defend her, and that they didn't do so gladly and willingly, protecting her as a precious person. That's, well, half the motivations for heroic struggles in the first place: fighting to protect someone important. Even if you insist that Samara is somehow blameless, it also takes all responsibility for the villager's actions off themselves as well.

You're making an argument that the woman who kills the villagers is not to blame for pursuing, causing, and carrying out the fight, and that the villagers are not to blame for choosing to fight, but the person to be blamed for the fighting and the bloodbath two other parties willingly dead is the one who fled the fight in the first place.

Why anyone would defend Morinth is beyond me. The woman is psychotic with a penchant for murder. There is no redeeming qualities in this combination. I cite it a similar, albeit significantly more villainous example. Luca Blight of Suikoden II. His childhood is horrifying, yet his actions as an adult is arguably the most sadistic in video game history. To such a degree all sympathy is lost. Morinth is essentially the same.

I suppose my defenseis that a lot of people make stupid arguments based on their emotional response and not logic.

[primero holodon]

good or not, an asari with a death fettish isn't exactly something you want wandering around the galaxy.

[CroGamer002]

She's a serial killer and murdering people is like crack to her.



I'm pretty sure is bad.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

I still have yet to hear a good reason why 'neural shock capacitors' or some such investment couldn't be made to let Shepard live through it.

Damn it, why didn't I think of that? If I ever write something Morinth-related, I'll credit you for this idea.

You  are learning well, young Padawan... why, I believe I even spied you defending killing Samara over in the DA forum earlier.

You are slipping...



More seriously, though, survivable sex would be a dynamic change of things for Morinth that could have opened up so much of her character that was unexplored. What she is now, what she was before: before the killing and the connection/sex were interchangable, but now they're seperate. Which is more important, now that she doesn't have to kill? Did she actually care/remember her mates in her own way, and how does a living one matter?

Morinth was always a sob story and a surviving sex scene from being another Jack.

Why anyone would defend Morinth is beyond me.

Well, from her point of view, she clearly felt that she had no real choice; confinement would be worse than death. It's also possible that she was already addicted to sex at that point...
Also, regarding the village situation. It's true that while Morinth bears some responsibility for their deaths, Samara has more of it, as she still chooses to follow the Code.

Morinth's responsibility for the battle only goes as far as you insist 'dominate' is actually against someone's will, as opposed to the lore-described uber-capable actor/interpersonal skills she's credited with. If the villagers protected her because they liked her, only the degree to which she forced that affection is relevant. If she just has a silver tongue, the blame goes increasingly on them (if they are to be blamed at all).

In that case, setting up a system of human (asari) sacrifice is far more relevant to her sins than the actions of others. And that, to, is shared with the villagers.




To answer the original point as to why... well, hate to put it down, but Morinth is pretty small scale. She's a serial killer, but you're actively recruiting people with far more explosive, ominous, and far-reaching pasts than a selective sex killer on the run from the super fuzz. Jack alone can turn heads compared to Morinth, while no one matches the number effected by Mordin's war crime (a necessary war crime or not, the genophage re-write remains one). Add in Zaeed, or simply compare Morinth's body count to the trail Samara has left trying to find her and... well, again. Small time, all things relative.

[Xilizhra]

More seriously, though, survivable sex would be a dynamic change of things for Morinth that could have opened up so much of her character that was unexplored. What she is now, what she was before: before the killing and the connection/sex were interchangable, but now they're seperate. Which is more important, now that she doesn't have to kill? Did she actually care/remember her mates in her own way, and how does a living one matter?



Morinth was always a sob story and a surviving sex scene from being another Jack.

My thoughts exactly. The whole Morinth story was underutilized and too simplistic; I would have loved to see what would have happened had Shepard actually been able to survive. Hell, that'd be the first time in Morinth's life that she'd ever meld in any capacity with anyone... in a way, it might be the first time that she's ever emotionally realized that other people have emotions besides pleasure. Great potential wasted...

[Aigyl]

If they had made Morinth a more sympathetic character who you could see was trying to fight her addiction but couldn't break it, the choice between her and Samara would be way more interesting.

As it is, Samara is no saint (questionable sense of justice, god-awful outfit), but Morinth just does not have enough redeemable qualities to make it an even choice.

[Dean_the_Young]

She's as strong as Samara, she isn't obligated to kill you as a matter of professional policy if you don't play by her rules, and she can act.



I don't know about redemption, but those are three usable qualities I can see.

[Phaedon]

Wolfy2449 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Serial killers are morally good.

Not morinth, she isnt interest in stupid ppl thus leaving the majoritiy of the world intact.

But i like someone posts about Morinth bring a tragic character, she is
The main question is that if she actually believes(of ourse she doesnt know) about shepard surviving the sex encounter with her or she is just trying to trick him

I was actually being sarcastic. 

[Cyanios]

good or bad is just point of views, but in my case, she is a threat, and thus will be killed so she won't kill me and mine.

[spacehamsterZH]

Uuuh... serial killers are bad, m'kay?

[Wolfy2449]

theres still me3, hopefully they ll add more things for morinth like a paragon path for her to choose between getting someking of biotic/tech advancement that woudlnt kill her partners.

Currently you only get an god-awful dialogue before and after suicide mission.

She is a tragic figure,was born like this obviously chosen freedom instead of jail and run around all the galaxy to hide from her code obsessed with 0 thinking mother and how she was a normal mother but with no love or how she could never be for long with a person because of her

Having sex is in her nature, the best she could do is try to constrain herself but i dont think many people would do that

Uuuh... serial killers are bad, m'kay?

Not all time, i would gladly be a serial killer of those rich Ceo of gaming companies who destroy games just for their profit, if i could only assure i wouldnt go to jail xD

Modifié par Wolfy2449, 25 novembre 2010 - 09:35 .

[Phaedon]

Not all time, i would gladly be a serial killer of those rich Ceo of gaming companies who destroy games just for their profit, if i could only assure i wouldnt go to jail xD

It's a good thing that Dexter didn't play video games then.

[Terraneaux]

Morinth is bad. Samara is just as bad, however, and much more dangerous to a renShep.

[Aigyl]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

She's as strong as Samara, she isn't obligated to kill you as a matter of professional policy if you don't play by her rules, and she can act.

I don't know about redemption, but those are three usable qualities I can see.

Oh aye, Morinth is certainly at least as powerful as Samara, if not more able in some ways (acting as you said, less likely to object to a controversial decision Shepard chooses). If I played a Shepard that based their choice purely on which is more useful to the team, I'd pick Morinth. On biotic power however they are both equal, which is the main reason TIM tells you to pick up Samara if I recall.

On a moral standpoint it's a different barrel of fish. If Samara/Morinth survives the SM, once they leave Shepard you know they are both going to end up killing people. One will kill people she deems should die based on a questionable Code, which I imagine will mainly be mercs, slavers and criminals, with the occasional civilian or someone who just gets in her way. The other will seduce and kill people who have done nothing but be attractive to her. That's the way I see the choice anyhoo.

[Dean_the_Young]

You can also throw in the dynamic that while Samara promises to leave, Morinth has no such obligation to... and may well be safer/more interested in staying.

[Aigyl]

Indeedy, alas that theory will have to wait until we know what ME3 is planning to do with the squad

Would be very interesting if Samara leaves while Morinth stays aboard the Normandy though.

[Wolfy2449]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You can also throw in the dynamic that while Samara promises to leave, Morinth has no such obligation to... and may well be safer/more interested in staying.

And i am pretty sure bioware wont simply allow morinth to leave like that to continue killing for the sake of paragon at least