147 réponses à ce sujet

[revengeance]

You know i really like a lot of the i guess you could call them neutral dialogue choices. I don't like how i have to go

down a certain path 100% almost to get all the dialogue choices in certain situations. Certain people would argue

that you can get full in one and a lot in the other if you play thoroughly but i feel that they should take it back to mass

effect one and make you invest points in it that way you can play exactly as you would like.

I also feel there should be at least three sub dialogue choices in most generall conversations. EX -

Pure good
Neutral good
Chaotic good
And the same for neutral and evil etc.

I also feel that if people do not like the ME1 way they could just get rid of the Good and bad altogether and just give us choices to solve the situation however we like.

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I argue this, a Diplomat compared to a Soldier arguement. Social speaking, manipulation, and persuation are as much a skill as fighting is.
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Thank you for reading.

Modifié par revengeance, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Indeed. It was a lot more doable in ME1 thanks to the investment feature.

[revengeance]

Yeah i really miss that, it let me play completely how i wanted too.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I would rather have a different set of points that you could obtain. Two level ups if you will one for combat powers and one for speech so you would not have to risk nerfing your character.

[revengeance]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I would rather have a different set of points that you could obtain. Two level ups if you will one for combat powers and one for speech so you would not have to risk nerfing your character.

I like that sounds good to me, ofcourse the system from one would be fine as long as they gave us enough points to invest into everything which i think with enough playing you should be able to do or atleast most things.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I don't know if I really like the investment option, but you really shouldn't have to go fully renegade or fully paragon to use late game renegade/paragon options.

[revengeance]

ReconTeam wrote...

I don't know if I really like the investment option, but you really shouldn't have to go fully renegade or fully paragon to use late game renegade/paragon options.

It was better than this one in my op, but yeah i agree if they atleast brought down the requirements for end game dialogue options (a lot) that would do it.
:happy:

[Sursion]

I ended up cheating for them in both of them. I like playing the game where I would do what I would do in real life. The only difference was in Mass Effect 1 is was possible to max both Charm and Intimidate legit. So I felt less bad about it.

I still don't get why you have to be the biggest badass in the galaxy to tell someone you're a spectre.

[g-w-m]

i agree the charm/intimidate system in ME1 worked heaps better than the reputation system in ME2. after a few playthroughs i find myself sticking to dialogue options i don't want to pick(ie: ALL paragon or ALL renegade), just out of knowing that later in the game if you don't choose a paragon/renegade side early, it can hold undesired consequences.



so a level/skill based system should be bought back, simply because it lets you play how you like & doesn't make you restrict yourself to a blue or red playthrough.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

yes, makes better sense... because one specific in-fighting conflict during the game is impossible to resolve if you don't have a certain amount of paragon points from taking interruption actions (most of them being renegade options, of common sense aka fun)... 


i agree with the OP... 

in fact they should separate the dialogue skill from the paragon/renegade points... dialogue only affects whether or not you may get extra renegade or paragon points, but not needing those points for certain dialogue options though...

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 25 novembre 2010 - 10:10 .

[Vena_86]

One single skill persuation skill you can invest in that gives you all choices, if you invested enough. It can be so simple, yet effective.



Please? *geth puppy eye*

[Sidewinder_617]

why not have that skill tied to your class tree (the more you develop your base stats,

the better your coercion)? then you wouldn't need to pick between it and your combat skills.

[Sidney]

ReconTeam wrote...

I don't know if I really like the investment option, but you really shouldn't have to go fully renegade or fully paragon to use late game renegade/paragon options.

The problem with anything around morality, going all the way back to good/evil in BG or light/dark in KoTOR, is that in game terms the biggest edge is always to min/max the things. I dislike that all or nothing approach and the not-in-the-game type of play it leads to.

Buying "bad****" points, though,  is silly in so many ways. I'm not sure how killing 30 geth makes me better at charming people, I can at least sorta see the guns and biotics getting better thing but talking? Plus, you can buy all the renegade points you want but if you;ve been galavanting around the galaxy like Mother Teresa I'm not sure how threating you can be. The ME2 approach, or the BG2 of "good" gets you discounts, at least does depend upon the reputation your character has developed affecting how people react to him. For me the biggest flaw in ME2 was that the "threshold" to use certain late game paragon/renegade options was just too high unless you went full-on for one side of the other. If they'd tipped that down I think it would work out just fine.

[Vena_86]

Sidewinder_617 wrote...

why not have that skill tied to your class tree (the more you develop your base stats,
the better your coercion)? then you wouldn't need to pick between it and your combat skills.

Because then the whole point of character customization is redundant. It is already stupid that ability recharge, accuracy/damage and health are all bundled into one. What if you want your Grunt to be super tough and your Thane extremely accurate while your Shepard spams abilities? Adding persuation to that list makes the whole thing even more obsolete. Why would Shepard be more talented at speaking/persuation because his abilities recharge faster?

ME3 really needs just a few passive skills (health, ability recharge, persuation, decryption?, accuracy for NPCs) you can freely invest in on-top of the active powers. Persuation is probably the most important and would single handedly fix the black and white morality of ME2.

Modifié par Vena_86, 25 novembre 2010 - 12:07 .

[Mallissin]

This is one of the reasons I felt ME2 was not an RPG. They removed a great amount of the RPG elements and made it into more of a FPS adventure game by focusing skills on combat.



This took away a lot of choices from the player and in the end we only really had two choices when developing the character; the class and which power we won't level to max (since there aren't enough points for all).



Felt very un-Bioware to me.



I have a feeling they tried to trim down the game, thinking more people would enjoy or complete it. I'd be really interested to compare ME1 statistics to the ME2 statistics that were released by IGN to see if the changes were successful.



http://xbox360.ign.c.../1117896p1.html



If not, then I hope we get a return to more ME1 style RPG elements.

[Big stupid jellyfish]

I do agree with the OP.

I had been playing ME2 and roleplaying my Shep making paragon or renegade choices/interrupts according to her character. In the end I felt I was kind of 'punished' when I didn't have a chance to choose several options because of not maximising blue/red points (even though these options could've been very in-character for my Shep).

I do understand a 'You can't choose this ultimate renegade option because you're 70% paragon now' reason. However, I don't think it can be applied to ME2.

Jack/Miranda conflict can be a good example: should the scene take place in the beginning of the game, I can use the paragon option and persuade both girls. I'm, say, 70% paragon and 30% renegade at this point. Should the scene take place in the end, the paragon option is grayed out. But I'm still 70% paragon!

Also, this system prevents you from choosing neutral answers because no red/blue points => less dialogue options further.

Modifié par Big stupid jellyfish, 25 novembre 2010 - 07:44 .

[Comdawg]

I was fine for the most part with the mass effect 2 system and felt it was an improvement over having to spend skill points on non combat skills in ME1. However they do need to fix their meters so that maxing out the paragon or renegade bars truly means you can do any charm or intimidate option.

[Autoclave]

I like the ME2 system, and i HATE the ME1. This is stupid, even from role playing perspective. Oh look! I invested some skill points into my persuading abilities! Now I can convince the bastard into completing my objective. Hell, Neverwinter Nights even had 3 (!!!) different skills of this kind: Persuation, Bluff, Intimidate. Instead of investing in some really useful gameplay skills, i had to put my skill points into this just because i could not complete some quests...

[Nizzemancer]

Autoclave wrote...

I like the ME2 system, and i HATE the ME1. This is stupid, even from role playing perspective. Oh look! I invested some skill points into my persuading abilities! Now I can convince the bastard into completing my objective. Hell, Neverwinter Nights even had 3 (!!!) different skills of this kind: Persuation, Bluff, Intimidate. Instead of investing in some really useful gameplay skills, i had to put my skill points into this just because i could not complete some quests...

Welcome to the world of RPG's where your stats depend on eachother and youhave to make a choice to be good at one thing and mediocre at something else.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

So true. Had to make some annoying dialouge decisions in ME2 so I could shout at people. I say bring back the ME1 leveling system. Just keep a small amount of skills like in ME2 including charm and intimidate and it should be made so you can fully level up your skills in one playthrough like ME2.

The best of both worlds eh? And I can afford to waste points on intimidate since i'm a shooter guy who can get through a situation even on a very low level.

Modifié par Cra5y Pineapple, 25 novembre 2010 - 10:38 .

[revengeance]

g-w-m wrote...

i agree the charm/intimidate system in ME1 worked heaps better than the reputation system in ME2. after a few playthroughs i find myself sticking to dialogue options i don't want to pick(ie: ALL paragon or ALL renegade), just out of knowing that later in the game if you don't choose a paragon/renegade side early, it can hold undesired consequences.

so a level/skill based system should be bought back, simply because it lets you play how you like & doesn't make you restrict yourself to a blue or red playthrough.

Exactly well said sir, I mean hey if they don't want to bring it back they need to do something so atleast we can play how we want and not get gimped later on I mean i dont like how i have to be so cruel to people as renegade or vice versa, sure i would be kind of a hard ass but not plain evil! i just don't like having to be an extreme because i am not nor do i want to play as one in my games.

[revengeance]

Sidney wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

I don't know if I really like the investment option, but you really shouldn't have to go fully renegade or fully paragon to use late game renegade/paragon options.

The problem with anything around morality, going all the way back to good/evil in BG or light/dark in KoTOR, is that in game terms the biggest edge is always to min/max the things. I dislike that all or nothing approach and the not-in-the-game type of play it leads to.

Buying "bad****" points, though,  is silly in so many ways. I'm not sure how killing 30 geth makes me better at charming people, I can at least sorta see the guns and biotics getting better thing but talking? Plus, you can buy all the renegade points you want but if you;ve been galavanting around the galaxy like Mother Teresa I'm not sure how threating you can be. The ME2 approach, or the BG2 of "good" gets you discounts, at least does depend upon the reputation your character has developed affecting how people react to him. For me the biggest flaw in ME2 was that the "threshold" to use certain late game paragon/renegade options was just too high unless you went full-on for one side of the other. If they'd tipped that down I think it would work out just fine.

Exactly, the all or nothing approach it makes the game a lot less fun too me. Why do i have to pick one or the other i payed 50 bucks for this game lol i should be able to do whats fun for me and still get the full experience!

[revengeance]

Vena_86 wrote...

One single skill persuation skill you can invest in that gives you all choices, if you invested enough. It can be so simple, yet effective.

Please? *geth puppy eye*

It really is that simple.

[revengeance]

Autoclave wrote...

I like the ME2 system, and i HATE the ME1. This is stupid, even from role playing perspective. Oh look! I invested some skill points into my persuading abilities! Now I can convince the bastard into completing my objective. Hell, Neverwinter Nights even had 3 (!!!) different skills of this kind: Persuation, Bluff, Intimidate. Instead of investing in some really useful gameplay skills, i had to put my skill points into this just because i could not complete some quests...

It's not stupid, speech craft and the like are a skill that can be improved through practice, i do not see it being to far fetched to compare athletics and persuation for example as being skills which when practiced improve!

[revengeance]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Autoclave wrote...

I like the ME2 system, and i HATE the ME1. This is stupid, even from role playing perspective. Oh look! I invested some skill points into my persuading abilities! Now I can convince the bastard into completing my objective. Hell, Neverwinter Nights even had 3 (!!!) different skills of this kind: Persuation, Bluff, Intimidate. Instead of investing in some really useful gameplay skills, i had to put my skill points into this just because i could not complete some quests...

Welcome to the world of RPG's where your stats depend on eachother and youhave to make a choice to be good at one thing and mediocre at something else.

Ok that is fine but i do not feel that it is fun or necessary to force me to be an absolute i like my neutral choices they reflect my personality,  why can i not play the way i feel is right and not pay for it later?