126 réponses à ce sujet

[veroneek]

the perfect villain resists the gawking eye of morality. this villain is contemptible insofar as (s)he is against the protagonist's will.

[Knight Templar_]

Jon Irenicus. The players was nothing to him, simply a tool that was close at hand and easy to use.

Brockololly wrote...


And have them voiced by Jeremy Irons...

He's good.

[Ziggeh]

The perfect villain wears all black and a top hat, twirls his elaborate moustache and cackles maniacly while tying damsels to railroad tracks.

[Chuvvy]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

The perfect villain wears all black and a top hat, twirls his elaborate moustache and cackles maniacly while tying damsels to railroad tracks.

You mean like Dastardly something another from that show from the 70s? Crap what was it called?

Dudley Dooright. I did it, you're welcome America.

Modifié par Slidell505, 27 novembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[Kroaks]

Liana Nighthawk wrote...

Kroaks wrote...
Especially if its not made blatantly obvious until its pointed out at the end by people opposing you or the ones you took down in someway that you couldn't actually disagree with their perspective on the matter.

I'm not sure how you could achieve that, given it relies on the player's own sense of morality and, perhaps, their emotional involvement.

Well; I suppose it would be something contengent on someone having played the "hero" path or good guy perspective.


Than just have someone come up with a good argument about how all the actions you took could at the very least be looked at from a negative light.

Kind of like how debates can come down to not which one is right but in the end simply which one you prefer because there isn't anything ultimately supporting one side over the other.

But yeah it would be hard to pull off.

[Dewarren2010]

I think it would be interesting if you were actually the villian- throughout the entire game you think you are doing the right thing, even being a good guy, but in the end, the "champion" ends up being the one who caused everything wrong to happen, leading to whatever cataclysm that is occuring when Cassandra confront Varec. And in the end, it is you, the villian, who has to truley become the hero and undo everything you have unknowingly caused through "redemption"



I think it would be a great plot element if done correctly

[In Exile]

I think a player villain can done if we go for well-intentioned extreemist. Duncan, basically.

Say we have some plot element where, if a society does not collapse, a war does not start, whatever, an even greater evil comes. The PC then has to essentially "play" the role of the villain to avert the greater tragedy. You can have different PC concepts under this umbrella.

[Crimson Invictus]

The biggest issue I see with the PC turning out to be the villain all along is you are basing your idea on the player caring they are now seen as the bad guy. If the big twist at the end relies on them suddenly being seen as the villain and the player doesn't care it will just be a huge flop and lack any emotional impact. 

For those who do care but want to feel like a hero they will feel cheated of their unicorns and rainbows ending, which was something I noticed a lot of people felt they didn't get in Origins.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:44 .

[David Gaider]

Liana Nighthawk wrote...
For those who do care but want to feel like a hero they will feel cheated of their unicorns and rainbows ending, which was something I noticed a lot of people felt they didn't get in Origins.

Are you forgetting we live on their tears?

You must be.

Modifié par David Gaider, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

Are you forgetting we live on their tears?

You must be.

I enjoy my no-happily-ever-after endings, so you will not taste tears from me! *evil laugh*

Though I'm sure you've got a lot of reserves and you'll make do.

[Saibh]

David Gaider wrote...

Liana Nighthawk wrote...
For those who do care but want to feel like a hero they will feel cheated of their unicorns and rainbows ending, which was something I noticed a lot of people felt they didn't get in Origins.

Are you forgetting we live on their tears?

You must be.

Then how do you explain Dog living? To be fair, the dog always lives. Unless the movie is named after it.

Modifié par Saibh, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:58 .

[David Gaider]

Dave of Canada wrote...
I enjoy my no-happily-ever-after endings, so you will not taste tears from me! *evil laugh*

Though I'm sure you've got a lot of reserves and you'll make do.

The amount of BAWWWW on these forums alone keeps the reserves from running dry, trust me.

[Crimson Invictus]

David Gaider wrote...
Are you forgetting we live on their tears?

You must be.

I'm just going to abuse the term "reverse psychology" in response.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 27 novembre 2010 - 07:01 .

[Revan312]

Dewarren2010 wrote...

I think it would be interesting if you were actually the villian- throughout the entire game you think you are doing the right thing, even being a good guy, but in the end, the "champion" ends up being the one who caused everything wrong to happen, leading to whatever cataclysm that is occuring when Cassandra confront Varec. And in the end, it is you, the villian, who has to truley become the hero and undo everything you have unknowingly caused through "redemption"

I think it would be a great plot element if done correctly

Been reading I am Legend recently huh?

Personally I want a villain like Kevin Spacey in Se7en.. "What's in the box?!?"

[Johnny Chaos]

DA2 should be Scott Pilgrim vs the World and Hawke fights off evil exes

[BWDII]

A good villain is one you can sympathize with. Not a bad person due to his/her own evil disposition, but a misguided person whos unintentional bad descisions have lead him/her down the path of corruption.

[Annie_Dear]

I would love DA2 to have a really dark, evil, crazy villain. Someone who's just evil and does what he/she does just because they can.

Someone like The Joker (from "The Dark Knight"); No vengeance, no struggle for power, no agenda. He just wants to make your life a misery.

[Lukertin]

Annie_Dear wrote...

I would love DA2 to have a really dark, evil, crazy villain. Someone who's just evil and does what he/she does just because they can.
Someone like The Joker (from "The Dark Knight"); No vengeance, no struggle for power, no agenda. He just wants to make your life a misery.

Yea but villains like that are just bat**** insane and lack motivation/ character development.  Which is fine in some circumstances but ultimately the villain himself isn't as interesting as someone with a real purpose.

[Silentmode]

BWDII wrote...
A good villain is one you can sympathize with. Not a bad person due to his/her own evil disposition, but a misguided person whos unintentional bad descisions have lead him/her down the path of corruption.

I comepletly agree with that.
I would consider Saren, Loghain, and to an extent TIM to all fill that role perfectly so BW has a good track record. To me the main antagonist is second only the PC in importance to the story. Which is why I have this wild speculation that the main baddie of DA2 will be Hawke's absent father. I can't tell you why or how just a gut feeling and my own selfish desire for a Darth Vader - Luke Skywalker moment.

Modifié par Silentmode, 27 novembre 2010 - 09:31 .

[Revan312]

Lukertin wrote...

Annie_Dear wrote...

I would love DA2 to have a really dark, evil, crazy villain. Someone who's just evil and does what he/she does just because they can.
Someone like The Joker (from "The Dark Knight"); No vengeance, no struggle for power, no agenda. He just wants to make your life a misery.

Yea but villains like that are just bat**** insane and lack motivation/ character development.  Which is fine in some circumstances but ultimately the villain himself isn't as interesting as someone with a real purpose.

The Joker did have purpose though, he wanted to turn the world inside out, to tear down civilization through simple yet unbelievably terrible moral quandries. He wanted to show Batman that society is far more fragile than he believes and that people will turn on each other like animals under traumatic circumstances..

Now there's no power grab, as he doesn't care about gaining money or fame, but he does have motivation, more so than most villains imo.  Plus I like the fact that villains like him can't be turned through a speech, he'll continue his plans no matter how much you try and convince him that it's wrong.  Because to him, it's a philosophy, a religion of sorts.

I'm not sure how well that would work in a setting and story structure such as DA, but I do enjoy Joker like baddies.

[AmstradHero]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The ideal villain is always the player character.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that the ideal villain is the player's character, and I'd like to know how anyone thinks this can be pulled off. It can work in films and books, but I don't possibly see how it can work in an RPG because the player is (playing) the protagonist.

I especially don't see how you can argue this point Sylvius, because your tastes demand that you be allowed to dictate every action and every minutiae of its rationale for the character you are playing.  Unless you're specifically playing someone who is trying to be a villain, this would simply not be possible.

I'd say that every narrative should involve conflict of some sort for the protagonist, be it internal (inside a character) or external (between two or more characters). In an RPG you cannot force the player to have any sort of internal conflict because then they're not roleplaying, they're being given a role. Thus there must be conflict with an external force. Therefore there must be an antagonist (or villain to use the terminology of this thread) on which to base this conflict.

If I played a game and *I* turned out to be the villain at the end of it all... well, I wouldn't be impressed.

[Drakereaver]

well Knights of the old repuplic did that and it didnt turn out horrible wrong.

[HighMoon]

Someone similar to...



*spoilers for Jade Empire and KOTOR*



Sun Li. The most cunning, evil bastard in a Bioware game to date. I really like how he started off as a mentor (one could even say a father figure); your character and Dawn Star trusted him implicitly for the the majority of the game, only for that trust to be betrayed. One of the biggest shocked/outraged/WTF moments in a Bioware game for me, along with the revelation of the the KOTOR protagonist as Revan.

[Tinxa]

I'd like the villain to be a secret, not someone who is obviously evil the first time you see the NPC. I didn't play JE but something like that sounds perfect. I'd like the plot to be about finding out who is the villain and then be surprised and not go "Oh, yeah it was that evil looking lord all along".

[Schuback]

Hopefully we'll see a mad woman this time.