11 réponses à ce sujet

[Cra5y Pineapple]

If you save the Council like I did, the fifth fleet come in through the relay and kick the asses out of all the geth ships; yet I don't understand how, if the turian fleet (or the destiny ascension for that matter) was more advanced why didn't it cut through the geth like the Alliance did?

[eshrafel]

It is because the Alliance had the gift of plot timing. Any force, no matter how inferior and underpowered, can and will always become a veritable juggernaut of unstoppable destruction when they arrive just in time to save the day.



Um, I guess you could say it was a surprise attack? That, and the cinematics were probably showing a condensed version of what was going on so as not to bore the viewer.



I don't really have a feel for how powerful the fleets are; I understood that the turians had more ships but they weren't massively more powerful than Alliance ones (eg. Shanxi).

[Stormy-B]

Surprise attack on ships already weakened by battle? Besides I've always thought that the Council fleet was spread out through several relays to detect the geth early (which obviously failed) and therefore wasn't at full strength at the Citadel. If I remember correctly there are dialog with the council where they say that they have patrols at every relay linking to Citadel space = thinned out.

When Sovereign took control of the Citadel and through it the relays it locked the councils back-up force out of the battle, Shepard only opens the relays that will be used by the 5th fleet to avoid the risk of any geth stragglers to come in and mess the surprise attack up.

Besides, as I recall it the council races ships aren't actually more advanced then their human counterparts. They just have more of them.

[somebody99000]

Basically, what seems to happen is that the battle between the Geth forces and the Council fleets at the Citadel is still raging when the 5th Fleet comes through. Critically, the Geth have their back to the relay (that's not where the guys with the guns are, after all). So when Shepard opens up the relay, they're now suddenly in a hammer-and-anvil (envelopment) situation, which makes them much less combat effective; if they turn to engage the human ships, the turian, asari, and salarian ships present aren't getting shot at and can engage them at will; if they keep shooting at their original targets, then the fresh Alliance forces take them in the rear. It has worked *very* well in human history (eg., the Battle of Cannae), so it might work quite well in space, too. Plus there was probably something of the element of surprise, since Saren and Sovereign had locked the gate network so they probably were thinking that nothing was going to show up.

[Zombie Chow]

somebody99000 wrote...

Critically, the Geth have their back to the relay (that's not where the guys with the guns are, after all). So when Shepard opens up the relay, they're now suddenly in a hammer-and-anvil (envelopment) situation, which makes them much less combat effective; if they turn to engage the human ships, the turian, asari, and salarian ships present aren't getting shot at and can engage them at will; if they keep shooting at their original targets, then the fresh Alliance forces take them in the rear.

That is actually a very well-articulated explanation and I'm totally sold on it.

It makes sense because Saren and Sovereign planned only for a short fight.  The plan WAS for Sovereign to just get into the Citadel and signal the rest of the Reapers.  The Geth went for an all-out assault just to give Sovereign a limited window to get to the Citadel, after which they were completely expendable.

However, Shepard and the Alliance drew out the fight into a battle of attrition.  The timing became a bit of a plot device, yeah, but it's very reasonable when considering that Saren and Sovereign weren't concerned about the ship battle, it was about sending the Reaper signal.

[Sinapus]

The mass relays were "known" to be shutdown so they had surprise.

Okay, and I really don't care because I really like those sort of scenes, whether in a visual media like this game or in a book.

Modifié par Sinapus, 27 novembre 2010 - 12:57 .

[CommanderSheperd117]

Stormy-B wrote...

Surprise attack on ships already weakened by battle? Besides I've always thought that the Council fleet was spread out through several relays to detect the geth early (which obviously failed) and therefore wasn't at full strength at the Citadel. If I remember correctly there are dialog with the council where they say that they have patrols at every relay linking to Citadel space = thinned out.
When Sovereign took control of the Citadel and through it the relays it locked the councils back-up force out of the battle, Shepard only opens the relays that will be used by the 5th fleet to avoid the risk of any geth stragglers to come in and mess the surprise attack up.
Besides, as I recall it the council races ships aren't actually more advanced then their human counterparts. They just have more of them.

well you got the first part right, but Sovereign never locked the relays and all the geth pored in at once(heretics, not ALL geth, that would've been bad) and Shepard was just stopping Sovereign's control of the Citadel to stop him from activating the Citadel Relay.

[Mangalores]

The Council said something to the effect of Citadel space, Terminus systems etc, so it stands to reason the main body of Citadel fleets were at the borders of Citadel space while Sovereign somehow jumped right into the center. Given it is a full surprise it stands to reason the Geth didn't go through normal routes where they would have met someone.



Why 5th fleet was so fast? Plot drive.

[Theoristitis]

CommanderSheperd117 wrote...
well you got the first part right, but Sovereign never locked the relays and all the geth pored in at once(heretics, not ALL geth, that would've been bad) and Shepard was just stopping Sovereign's control of the Citadel to stop him from activating the Citadel Relay.

Joker: "I'm sitting here in the Andura sector with the entire Arcturus Fleet. We can save the Ascension. Just unlock the relays around the Citadel and we'll send the cavalry in."
Whether it was Sovereign or Saren who locked the relays is irrelevant. Shepard, gaining control with Vigil's data file, unlocks them as well as taking control ("Vigil's data file worked. I've got control of all systems.").

As to how Joker and co. made it so quickly...if all Citadel fleets were on alert, which they were, then the Alliance was probably awake as well. Joker just made it to the Andura sector before the relays were shut down (if those beyond the Serpent Nebula were even shut down), got the party ready, and waited for Shepard, who had to fight through geth halfway up the outside of Citadel Tower (which is easily a couple kilometers tall).

[Bourne Endeavor]

Primarily the reason the Citadel fleets are being obliterated is due to a surprise attack. The Geth, alongside Sovereign, attacked upon the rear flank of the Citadel subsequent to passing through the Conduit, wherein the Council anticipated a frontal assault. They had no way of realizing they could be attacked from their most disadvantaged position. Thus, by the time they could properly mount any degree of offense, their forces had been considerably reduced.

With the Alliance, the tables ironically flip whereby the Geth receive reciprocated actions, being flanked on their rear. This in conjunction with weakened defenses and an inferior overall militia inevitably led to their destruction. In reality, it was never a case of military superiority on the Alliance of Citadel's side. It was based upon timing, which is usually what determines victory in a war.

Edit: I had forgotten. The Council spoke of sending patrols to every sector of controlled Citadel space, therefore it is logical to assume they were already engaging Sovereign with less. Furthermore, they opposed Sovereign directly in the initial wave, who is nigh indestructible. It alone would have decimated a sizable portion of the fleet. We were treated to only a few demonstrations of its power.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 29 novembre 2010 - 12:03 .