472 réponses à ce sujet

[Sueno]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You know, even the people who don't really like Alistair the character seem to agree on his hotness. I can't be the only one who thinks he looks kind of bland but, God help me, I have yet to see anyone express this.

You're not alone Sarah. Then again, I think ALL the men in Dragon Age look kind of bland.

I'm in agreement with you ladies. I also found there was much to be desired in the character designs. Many of the pcs looked similiar to the nps and for me it kinda took away from the mistique of the pcs.

[maxernst]

Gilsa wrote...

@Sueno -- Interestingly enough, the Alistair you're seeing is a second rewrite from David Gaider. Alistair was originally tougher and more brooding, but the response was not positive so DG did a complete rewrite of Alistair to what you see. He also wrote Zevran's character if you didn't already know that so it's nice to see the similarities and contrast in different approaches. If you're a fan of either character (and Morrigan, since he wrote her, too), then keep your fingers crossed that we'll see the same underlying elements carried over into the DA2 romances.

Yeah, I'd heard that too...and that's why he's listed as 32 in the toolset which is totally at odds with his behavior and background.  I'm glad they rewrote in part because I think it would have been hard to swallow him being willing to follow a green Warden recruit.  The fact that he's approximately your age and only has a few months seniority, combined with his insecurity and fear of failure, makes it a lot more plausible.

[Addai]

I hadn't ever played a BioWare game when my husband kept telling me I'd like this new game he was picking up. So hum de dum along I go getting absolutely slaughtered left and right... I gave up a couple times because I found the gameplay so hard, but decided to keep on because I found the fact that you had teammates an interesting change from the Bethesda games I had been playing. BAM, Alistair gives my character a rose and starts talking about how rare and wonderful she is, and I was hooked. I didn't know such a sweet romance story, so well written, existed in toon games. I got hooked even more when we got the companion novels and I loved Maric in them, basically finding out Alistair's history.

I appreciate the fact that he's not your typical muscle-bound action hero and yet has many of the shining knight qualities. Since I played an elf my first character and most of them since, having an LI and a fellow Warden who actually defers to her leadership is a powerful statement.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 novembre 2010 - 06:36 .

[Annarl]

I really like Alistair but I don't get all the love for him. Some of my PC's don't get along with him and others think of him as a brother. I only ever did one romance with him and didn't think it was all that great. He never really grows in the romance. He won't fight his love and willing to toss it aside. And the whole hardening thing to me is silly. It seems to me as selfish (on the part of the PC). But I don't like how it was written and that could be that big problem with it.

I think it comes down to the idea that some women (and I am a woman) have that we can fix the man (or woman) we love. You either at some level buy that idea or you don't. I don't. I believe the individual must want to change.
Then again I'm older and I prefer someone who is mature and has self confidence. ( Insert DH here LOL.) As oppose to someone I have to fix.  
It's a matter of taste and its great on Bioware's part to give us choice.   That said some of the fangirls are scary. 

Modifié par omearaee, 26 novembre 2010 - 06:39 .

[Tigress M]

Taking this completely out of game lore and game immersion, the very first thing that attracted me (the player) to Alistair was his voice. I didn't even realize it was Steve Valentine's voice at first, but that didn't matter. I loved the accent and the seductiveness of it.

In the same light, it's why I didn't like Leilana or Zevran on my first playthrough. I wasn't crazy about their accents. Now, I enjoy listening to them because I've come to like their characters, but thinking back to my first playthrough, Alistair's voice is what caught my attention.

[Maria13]

Glaucon wrote...

I agree with the sentiments expressed by the OP. To me Alistair is the worst form of a coward. He fails to grow during the storyline (even a hardened Alistair is a reluctant one) and is in effect using the Warden's cause as a death wish. The worst of that is that he hides behind honour and respectability whilst conspiring to commit suicide. He believes it a noble/just/honourable act to die defeating the blight; I always get the impression of that notion being a self-justification though and not a core belief.

*Edit to clarify*  Male perspective.

I take your point about him having a death wish though I cannot see why that should be construed as cowardice and in particular "the worst form of cowardice"...  I see it coming from his [distorted] feeling of always having been a spare, worthless, he hopes that if he does something noble even if it results in his death that will be some justification for his life... I do not see cowardice in that, just sadness and folly... Also why do you get the impression that his belief is self-justification and not a core one? If you let him join you on the roof top of Fort Drakon and you are in friendship or love with him, be you male or female, he will take the final blow even though he is aware that that will mean his death and nothing your warden does or says will deter him... If that is not a 'core belief' I don't know what is.

*Female here, mature, and rabid Alistarian, but hopefully not entirely unreasonable...

Modifié par Maria13, 26 novembre 2010 - 06:41 .

[Addai]

How do you have to "fix" Alistair any more than any other LI in the game? All of them have issues. Are people referring to the hardening mechanic? I agree that I don't like that aspect of the game. I figure if the Blight and losing all the Wardens doesn't harden him, nothing would, so I just harden him and ignore the mechanic.

[Alyzabeth]

I like him because he's the second swellest man in the world. lol

[tuppence95]

Sueno wrote...
I'm glad they went with the rewrite. Alistair is great complex character and I hope I'm not coming across as an Alistair basher, I just feel like when it comes to romancing him I'm on the other side of the spectrum from the majority. 

A lot of people seem to share the sentiment it's about how you play the game. Did anyones view on a character  change on your second, third, or fourth play through? I have noticed I tend to like Alistair more when I watch my sister play. She's a dwarf commoner and is way nicer than my human noble (who--as I stated before--is very much a brat).

I really do think that the character of Alistair varies greatly, depending on how he's treated by the pc.  I've tried to treat him in different ways with different wardens, and on one occasion I did get a glimpse of the Alistair that many people dislike.  When he's treated with respect and even love, he flourishes and becomes someone very different from the man who is made fun of and treated badly.  The AI in this game is pretty impressive, I think.

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You know, even the people who don't really like Alistair the character seem to agree on his hotness. I can't be the only one who thinks he looks kind of bland but, God help me, I have yet to see anyone express this.

You're not alone Sarah. Then again, I think ALL the men in Dragon Age look kind of bland.

For me, once I get to know someone, their looks start changing.  I knew an extremely handsome man who worked as a male model for awhile.   He was gorgeous!  But he was such an unpleasant person, that he started looking slightly unattractive to me.  The same with the homely, but really kind & smart woman who was one of my professors.  Her wonderful personality kinda glowed through her plain face and made her beautiful.

When I first saw Alistair, I felt kinda Meh about him.  Now I think he's hot.  Especially when he uses that eyebrow.  

[Annarl]

Tigress M wrote...

Taking this completely out of game lore and game immersion, the very first thing that attracted me (the player) to Alistair was his voice. I didn't even realize it was Steve Valentine's voice at first, but that didn't matter. I loved the accent and the seductiveness of it.
In the same light, it's why I didn't like Leilana or Zevran on my first playthrough. I wasn't crazy about their accents. Now, I enjoy listening to them because I've come to like their characters, but thinking back to my first playthrough, Alistair's voice is what caught my attention.

Steve Valentine does a fantastic job with Alistair voice.

[DahliaLynn]

This might all be a result of the typical "hype" approach. When something is hyped, it leads you to expect stuff opening a large door for disappointment. In my own experience, I played DA:O without knowing a thing about romance. Alistair took my heart without me actually realizing it at first. I played the game as I would act in life...not expecting a thing. I found him entertaining, very funny..and all that flirtatiousness was quite refreshing. (not to mention his good values, powerful abilities, etc...) it was down hill from there on.
So in response the OP's first post...I think if you would have played the game without expectation, your experience might have been different.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 26 novembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Herr Uhl]

Gilsa wrote...

@Sueno -- Interestingly enough, the Alistair you're seeing is a second rewrite from David Gaider. Alistair was originally tougher and more brooding, but the response was not positive so DG did a complete rewrite of Alistair to what you see.

That was more due to that it wouldn't make much sense for a veteran to put you in charge from the get-go. By the time you reach Riordan you've proven yourself enough for it to be plausible that the PC is in charge.

[Zjarcal]

tuppence95 wrote...
For me, once I get to know someone, their looks start changing.  I knew an extremely handsome man who worked as a male model for awhile.   He was gorgeous!  But he was such an unpleasant person, that he started looking slightly unattractive to me.  The same with the homely, but really kind & smart woman who was one of my professors.  Her wonderful personality kinda glowed through her plain face and made her beautiful.

When I first saw Alistair, I felt kinda Meh about him.  Now I think he's hot.  Especially when he uses that eyebrow.  

Well, first of all, remember who you're talking to... 

But I do agree with you that once you get to know someone and like them, you can find them attractive even if you previously didn't. Believe it or not, that's how I initially felt about Leliana. 

[Addai]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

@Sueno -- Interestingly enough, the Alistair you're seeing is a second rewrite from David Gaider. Alistair was originally tougher and more brooding, but the response was not positive so DG did a complete rewrite of Alistair to what you see.

That was more due to that it wouldn't make much sense for a veteran to put you in charge from the get-go. By the time you reach Riordan you've proven yourself enough for it to be plausible that the PC is in charge.

According to Gaider at PAX (* it may have been a published interview, now that I think of it), the reason they changed Alistair's character was because focus group response was negative, particularly from male players.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 novembre 2010 - 06:49 .

[Maria13]

What attracted me to him, as well as the voice, which is ravishing, is his sense of humour, in Ostagar he says he will not follow an order if it involves donning a dress and dancing... Then your character can say, 'I'd like to see that', and he replies 'For you I just might do it... If the dress is a pretty one." A great joke.

[Sueno]

omearaee wrote...

I really like Alistair but I don't get all the love for him. Some of my PC's don't get along with him and others think of him as a brother. I only ever did one romance with him and didn't think it was all that great. He never really grows in the romance. He won't fight his love and willing to toss it aside. And the whole hardening thing to me is silly. It seems to me as selfish (on the part of the PC). But I don't like how it was written and that could be that big problem with it.

I think it comes down to the idea that some women (and I am a woman) have that we can fix the man (or woman) we love. You either at some level buy that idea or you don't. I don't. I believe the individual must want to change.
Then again I'm older and I prefer someone who is mature and has self confidence. ( Insert DH here LOL.) As oppose to someone I have to fix.  
It's a matter of taste and its great on Bioware's part to give us choice.   That said some of the fangirls are scary. 

What part of Alistair's character did you find lacking?

I also think the whole "I'm a woman I can change this man" may play a role in why Alistair has such a following since this is a tried and true romance trope. However it didn't work for me because I've seen to many women try and fail at this in real life and because of my belief system.

@Addai67 So the rose won you over. I tried to toss it out of my inventory at one time hoping it would free up some room, lol. To say the least, my warden was not wooed. The thing about him allowing the elf to lead doesn't seem odd to me because Alistair isn't a leader.

@DahliaLynn I don't think the fanart I saw so much mislead me as it was being misleading. I don't mean this in any negative way. Ff you read fancomics or fanfiction many people tend to exaggerate certain aspects they like of a character. Alistair is indeed sweet but I never saw any fanart of him telling jokes or just acting like the big over emotional kid he is. I will admit to be suprised when I realized who he really is, but I do not think my preconcieved ideas prevented me from seeing him as a romance option. I'm starting to lean more in the direction that he just wasn't right for my grey warden.

[Sarah1281]

If you let him join you on the roof top of Fort Drakon and you are in friendship or love with him, be you male or female, he will take the final blow even though he is aware that that will mean his death and nothing your warden does or says will deter him... If that is not a 'core belief' I don't know what is.

Actually, though he will offer to take the final blow for anybody, he will only not let you talk him out of it if he's in love.

Taking this completely out of game lore and game immersion, the very first thing that attracted me (the player) to Alistair was his voice. I didn't even realize it was Steve Valentine's voice at first, but that didn't matter. I loved the accent and the seductiveness of it.

I don't particularly like that either but that's another thing that so many people seem to love and I can definitely understand the appeal of a voice you like. I know I love Steve Blum's voice when for Gorim.



I guess while I'm not really much of a fan of the Alistair romance (he ends up with my Queen Cousland and my DCF although that ends with the Landsmeet) I do like him as a friend...though that never ends well.

[Addai]

@Sueno, the rose is a quest item and takes up no space in your inventory.

[Maria13]

Glaucon wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Glaucon wrote...

I agree with the sentiments expressed by the OP. To me Alistair is the worst form of a coward. He fails to grow during the storyline (even a hardened Alistair is a reluctant one) and is in effect using the Warden's cause as a death wish. The worst of that is that he hides behind honour and respectability whilst conspiring to commit suicide. He believes it a noble/just/honourable act to die defeating the blight; I always get the impression of that notion being a self-justification though and not a core belief.

*Edit to clarify*  Male perspective.

I take your point about him having a death wish though I cannot see why that should be construed as cowardice and in particular "the worst form of cowardice"...  I see it coming from his [distorted] feeling of always having been a spare, worthless, he hopes that if he does something noble even if it results in his death that will be some justification for his life... I do not see cowardice in that, just sadness and folly... Also why do you get the impression that his belief is self-justification and not a core one? If you let him join you on the roof top of Fort Drakon and you are in friendship or love with him, be you male or female, he will take the final blow even though he is aware that that will mean his death and nothing your warden does or says will deter him... If that is not a 'core belief' I don't know what is.

*Female here, mature, and rabid Alistarian, but hopefully not entirely unreasonable...

During my first run I saw Alistair as an anchor to the plot, my Warden treated him with respect and aided him with his personal growth wherever that was possible -- I'll not dwell on whether my Warden had the right or skill to achieve this as I think that to be beyond technical debate.

It seems that I constructed my sentence poorly?  To me, Alistair is rendered a coward precisely because he fails to overcome his circumstance.  By that I mean his, admittedly, distasteful upbringing.  But once he was made a Warden, and following the Wardens singular philosophy, he should have felt liberated by it.  Instead he constantly dwells on the past and allows that past to influence his decisions.  His 'cowardice' is of an introspective nature and not one of skill in combat or pliability in moral ethos.  To me he represents bathetic writing and it weakens his plausibility?    

Aspiring to get the right of this: So you mean he is a coward because he would rather die than live what he sees as a pointless or loveless life?

As to the other points, Alistair has been a warden barely six months, not sure that's long enough to be imbued with the mystique that should guide the rest of his life and liberate him... In any event, is not electing willingly to become a Warden as he did. a form of death wish?

Also not sure that there is a "singular philosophy" to becoming a GW.  If there is it is "any means to end a Blight" which is not an abstract philosophy but pure pragmatism...

Modifié par Maria13, 26 novembre 2010 - 07:13 .

[Sueno]

Addai67 wrote...

@Sueno, the rose is a quest item and takes up no space in your inventory.

Ha-ha, I know, I know. But if it had it would have been long gone. There's no room for sentimental items in my grey wardens backpack.

[Addai]

@Sueno, it may simply be that Alistair's romance is not for you and there's nothing wrong with that. Just replay and try one of the other romances. They're all well written and fun to play. Morrigan and Zevran are of a different type, the hardened sort you have to crack, whereas Leliana is another romantic softie.

[Sueno]

Addai67 wrote...

@Sueno, it may simply be that Alistair's romance is not for you and there's nothing wrong with that. Just replay and try one of the other romances. They're all well written and fun to play. Morrigan and Zevran are of a different type, the hardened sort you have to crack, whereas Leliana is another romantic softie.

Oh, no, I didn't ask this question to find out why Alistair wasn't working for me. Being a English major with a focus in creative writing I immensly like having discussions about characterization. Alistair worked well as a romance option for quite a few females so I'm just curious about what was done right.

Ha-ha, at least I'm not asking whether or not Alistair has agency and what it is or when did he gain it . Unless you guys want to go that route...cause I am so game.

[Maria13]

@ Glaucon, I'm enjoying this.

He may not try hard enough, but he tries he is young and impatient...

My view is that when he leaves the Chantry, there's a major battle which is lost and he is plunged into a long hard campaign against the Blight... He has no real time to enjoy the freedom of being a GW. He does try and enjoy himself along the way, looking for love, making friends, but... One of the reasons I started to write my FF, I wanted to get him to a place where he could begin to enjoy what life has to offer...

Modifié par Maria13, 26 novembre 2010 - 07:41 .