472 réponses à ce sujet

[jpdipity]

I love both the Alistair and Zevran romances. The biggest attraction was that both men have me laughing throughout the game. I love a good sense of humor and their dialogue/banters keep the game fun. Valentine's voice melts me every single time as a female PC. I had to have a male complete the Zev romance because my female PCs can't resist Valentine's voice, but I do love Zev's romance equally.

On the other hand, I have a very hard time getting into either of the female romances. I usually prefer to play male PCs (even though I am female); however, I find myself playing many more female PCs due to the annoying female LIs. I find Leliana to be downright creepy at moments and a religious zealot with some unbearable racial ignorances. Whereas Morrigan, who is much more bareable in the romance department, is a real downer to take anywhere - all she does is complain. Her negativity is offputting. With the exception of Ashley, I much prefer the Mass Effect female LIs to any DAO female LI.

Modifié par jpdipity, 26 novembre 2010 - 10:39 .

[Sueno]

Addai67 wrote...

Sueno wrote...

May I ask you to provide the scene you found Alistair to be sweet and/or sincere in so we can discuss it. I do believe we get more of people telling us about Alistair than him actually showing (not telling) us who he is. A great example of this is everyone telling the grey warden he is a crybaby. I don't recall ever seeing the guy cry, but it will always come up as a dialouge option for the grey warden or someone will bring it up in conversation. It would have been more powerful for me to see this in action than to have it told to me.

Ok, I'll show you.  Scene 1 is my PC talking to Alistair about Duncan and about her culture.  Keep in mind she has been ripped from that culture and most other people have been insulting to her about it. (Don't mind the modded Alistair in the video.).  Scene 2 on the same character and not long after, he confesses his birthright, and at the end of the conversation tells this Warden he barely knows that she's the reason he thinks he was lucky to survive.  Dalish Warden mind, blown.

Thanks for providing the links! It helps a lot. The beginning of the game is when Alistair was at his best, in my opinion. These two scenes are great  because they exhibit certain aspects of Alistair's character and happen at key moments in the plot. As the game progresses a lot more disucssion happens around the campfire instead of during the missions. For me it made all the character--not just Alistair--seem more distant. While I didn't find these scenes sweet they did aid in shaping him out to be a sincere character and I believe the timing of the scenes had a lot o do with this.

[Addai]

jpdipity wrote...

On the other hand, I have a very hard time getting into either of the female romances. I usually prefer to play male PCs (even though I am female); however, I find myself playing many more female PCs due to the annoying female LIs. I find Leliana to be downright creepy at moments and a religious zealot with some unbearable racial ignorances. Whereas Morrigan, who is much more bareable in the romance department, is a real downer to take anywhere - all she does is complain. Her negativity is offputting. With the exception of Ashley, I much prefer the Mass Effect female LIs to any DAO female LI.

I enjoyed Morrigan's romance and thought it had some great lines.  You get some hilarious raunchy stuff with her as well as some pretty heartrending moments ("free me" ).  As for her b*tchiness, that's just Morrigan and I actually like NPCs who talk back, but I realize not everyone will see that as endearing.

Zevran's is great, too.  I think I'm just a Gaider fangirl.

[Collider]

Alistair is funny, sweet, caring, friendly, humble, and brave. He's a bit of a dork, but that's makes him more lovable. Overall, he's a human character who has flaws but is appealing anyway.

[Addai]

Sueno wrote...

Thanks for providing the links! It helps a lot. The beginning of the game is when Alistair was at his best, in my opinion. These two scenes are great  because they exhibit certain aspects of Alistair's character and happen at key moments in the plot. As the game progresses a lot more disucssion happens around the campfire instead of during the missions. For me it made all the character--not just Alistair--seem more distant. While I didn't find these scenes sweet they did aid in shaping him out to be a sincere character and I believe the timing of the scenes had a lot o do with this.

Yes it's true, there is a lull in the middle and then if you get dumped at the Landsmeet, it can be quite a letdown.  Or a meltdown, depending on how involved you feel at that point.  LOL  Have you tried Zevran's romance?  His builds up more slowly and "peaks" later in the game.

[Sueno]

Addai67 wrote...

Yes it's true, there is a lull in the middle and then if you get dumped at the Landsmeet, it can be quite a letdown.  Or a meltdown, depending on how involved you feel at that point.  LOL  Have you tried Zevran's romance?  His builds up more slowly and "peaks" later in the game.

I romanced Alistair and Zevran at the same time. So once Alistair abandoned my grey warden at the landsmeet she went running to Zevran. In my opinion Zevran seems like the typcial romance hero archtype. He's the bad boy who is changed by the good girl. Because he seemed so typical I was even more curious why females tended to perfer Alistair. I wonder if Alistair being a virgin had anything to do with it (his viriginity also falls into the princess category I mentioned a few pages back). Maybe Alistair not sleeping around was another sign of his sincerity? My very sexually active grey warden was actually turned off by this, lol.

[Persephone]

Ah, yes what is it about Alistair?

I am probably a rare kind of Alistair fangirl, as I prefer Loghain over Alistair in general. Ahem... But here we go:

What do I like about Alistair? To quote Queen Anora, "his heart is in the right place." What first "got to me" was his wit and sarcasm. When I heard "The GRUMPY one!" I LOLed out loud. I also like vocal companions. And unlike Anomen in BG2, he is not completely rigid in his views. The boy has wit, a sense of humor and he isn't a bad fighter. Good starting points.

As the game progresses, traits that I LOVE and traits that make me HEADDESK or curse at my monitor, form a rather realistic character. He has basically been neglected/overlooked throughout his life. For someone who has never experienced love or affection, he is surprisingly caring, soft-hearted and loving. Like all Bioware LIs, he has issues that the PC can or cannot "fix". (Anomen and his father, Carth & his trust issues etc.) And of course hearing "Your desire is my command" makes me melt. However, he thinks with his heart, not his head and that is where my more practical Wardens begin to get miffed. He is self centered to the core, yet never selfish until a very harrowing decision comes along. Self centered as in taking everything personally, rarely ever showing concern for the Warden and his/her traumata (And they all went through hell before becoming a Warden) etc. However, seeing that most of these problems stem from his insecurity and his conviction that he is undeserving of love and affection mellows my Wardens' hearts again, to a point.

When it comes to the romance, I am not into men like him. ME2's Thane Krios is closer to what I personally like, and he has all the sensitivity and angst, in addition to life experience, wisdom etc. that I could possibly ask for. With Thane it is emotional, spiritual, intense, a battle of (serious) wits and sometimes even sarcasm. Alistair lacks that depth, yet he has about 10 times more of screen time than Thane does. The comparison might be unfair as Thane is much older, has loved before and reached a level of maturity that Alistair will have difficulties attaining, if he ever does.

Despite all that, he still gets under my skin. I still want to shield him from the world and its grim, harsh realism, so to speak. To quote Anora again (And for HER to say that...)....yes, his heart is in the right place. So I wish her luck with him. :innocent:

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sueno wrote...

I also liked that Alistair walked out on the landsmeet when you choose to make Loghain a gray warden because it was very much in character for him to do so. Alistair is emotional and often times bases his decisions on how he feels at the moment. But I'm guessing from what I'm reading this is what females like about Alistair, the fact that he is over emotional.

Well, I should clarify that I liked that it was in character for Alistair to do what he did, and there wasn't a cop-out to make him give in or fold so everyone could be happy BFFs. I don't think it's a strength of his that he's over emotional or has an inflated sense of honour to the point that justice and vengeance get twisted (even according to his writer, Gaider), I think it's character flavour.

But most women are emotional creatures, and dealing with an emotional man is something they might like, I agree.

[errant_knight]

There really needs to be a raised eyebrow icon a la Alistair.

Modifié par errant_knight, 27 novembre 2010 - 01:22 .

[Addai]

Sueno wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Yes it's true, there is a lull in the middle and then if you get dumped at the Landsmeet, it can be quite a letdown.  Or a meltdown, depending on how involved you feel at that point.  LOL  Have you tried Zevran's romance?  His builds up more slowly and "peaks" later in the game.

I romanced Alistair and Zevran at the same time. So once Alistair abandoned my grey warden at the landsmeet she went running to Zevran. In my opinion Zevran seems like the typcial romance hero archtype. He's the bad boy who is changed by the good girl. Because he seemed so typical I was even more curious why females tended to perfer Alistair. I wonder if Alistair being a virgin had anything to do with it (his viriginity also falls into the princess category I mentioned a few pages back). Maybe Alistair not sleeping around was another sign of his sincerity? My very sexually active grey warden was actually turned off by this, lol.

Uh... we must be operating under very different standards of normal.  LOL  I would say that Alistair is more your boy next door type romance, whereas falling for an assassin with a checkered bedroom history doesn't seem like the obvious thing to me.  (Zevran's romance is so poignant for some of the underlying and what I found surprising depth.)  But... could you stop referring to Alsitair as a princess? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Virginity makes a guy a princess?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 novembre 2010 - 02:41 .

[Collider]

Pretty Pink Pony Princess.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sueno wrote...

I romanced Alistair and Zevran at the same time. So once Alistair abandoned my grey warden at the landsmeet she went running to Zevran. In my opinion Zevran seems like the typcial romance hero archtype. He's the bad boy who is changed by the good girl. Because he seemed so typical I was even more curious why females tended to perfer Alistair.

It's one of the reasons I adore Alistair: he is the atypical male romance. The whole "badboy being turned good by the power of love" just doesn't appeal to me. A screwed up "good" boy who who might need to be saved from himself is far more interesting. Alistair is his own worst enemy. This dimension to him is very appealing, it speaks of hidden dualities in nature.

I wonder if Alistair being a virgin had anything to do with it (his viriginity also falls into the princess category I mentioned a few pages back). Maybe Alistair not sleeping around was another sign of his sincerity? My very sexually active grey warden was actually turned off by this, lol.

His viriginity has nothing to do with it, though it is a nice part of it. A man being a virgin does not make him weak or princessy, either. There are many other indications of Alistair's sincerity. Landsmeet, in my opinion, proves he is pretty guileless and is lead emotionally to a fault.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Virginity makes a guy a princess?

Only if he can feel a pea through a dozen matresses!

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Virginity makes a guy a princess?

I think it's a pretty weird double standard. Personally, I think it's very attractive that he takes relationships seriously enough to want it to mean something.

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Virginity makes a guy a princess?

I think it's a pretty weird double standard. Personally, I think it's very attractive that he takes relationships seriously enough to want it to mean something.

Thank you

[Sueno]

Addai67 wrote...
Uh... we must be operating under very different standards of normal.  LOL  I would say that Alistair is more your boy next door type romance, whereas falling for an assassin with a checkered bedroom history doesn't seem like the obvious thing to me.  (Zevran's romance is so poignant for some of the underlying and what I found surprising depth.)  But... could you stop referring to Alsitair as a princess? 

Ha-ha, I'm sorry I am unable to fulfill your request. I believe Alistair shares many traits with the princess archetype. Being virginal is one of them (there stories upon stories filled with virginal princesses).

The bad boy is very normal character in the world of romance. Zevran is very typical. And judging from this forum discussion there have been many females who felt an urge to change, or care for Alistair. But what is the difference between Alistair and Zevran? Zevran has high high self-esteem and Alistair doesn't and I think people are cluing into this on a consious or subconsious level and want Alistair to learn to love himself. When you compare Zev's past to Alistair's there's no contest as to who had it worse. However, Alistair seems to hold more of a negative view of what took place in his youth. Maybe if he was as egotistical as Zev some females may not be as drawn to him as they are.

[Gilsa]

Sueno wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Yes it's true, there is a lull in the middle and then if you get dumped at the Landsmeet, it can be quite a letdown.  Or a meltdown, depending on how involved you feel at that point.  LOL  Have you tried Zevran's romance?  His builds up more slowly and "peaks" later in the game.

I romanced Alistair and Zevran at the same time. So once Alistair abandoned my grey warden at the landsmeet she went running to Zevran. In my opinion Zevran seems like the typcial romance hero archtype. He's the bad boy who is changed by the good girl. Because he seemed so typical I was even more curious why females tended to perfer Alistair. I wonder if Alistair being a virgin had anything to do with it (his viriginity also falls into the princess category I mentioned a few pages back). Maybe Alistair not sleeping around was another sign of his sincerity? My very sexually active grey warden was actually turned off by this, lol.

Part of it could be that you meet Alistair so early on in the game while Zevran doesn't come along until later so that's probably why he gets so much attention at the onset. Another part of it is that the way you play the game influences how you see your companions -- some origins just felt better suited to one LI more than the other. Some people also see some parallels between the LIs in the game and their RL significant others so it endears them more to the character.

Sueno wrote...

I also liked that Alistair walked out on the landsmeet when you choose to make Loghain a gray warden because it was very much in character for him to do so. Alistair is emotional and often times bases his decisions on how he feels at the moment. But I'm guessing from what I'm reading this is what females like about Alistair, the fact that he is over emotional.

I agree. I think him walking out on Landsmeet is one of his strongest points in the game as a character and says a lot about his convictions, but other people interpret that as a cowardly act. I see parallels between Alistair walking out at Landsmeet and Kaidan/Ashley walking away at Horizon in ME2. Both sets of characters are not convinced that the PC is on the right path and are standing their ground instead of continuing to be lapdogs. Does that make sense?

[Sueno]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Virginity makes a guy a princess?

I think it's a pretty weird double standard. Personally, I think it's very attractive that he takes relationships seriously enough to want it to mean something.

Thank you

I do not mean virginity makes a guy a princess. I'm purely speaking of archetypes used in stories and where Alistair fits. Ugh, I'm sorry if I'm confusing people. I'm kinda treating this as the writing critiques I had to do.

[errant_knight]

Sueno wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Virginity makes a guy a princess?

I think it's a pretty weird double standard. Personally, I think it's very attractive that he takes relationships seriously enough to want it to mean something.

Thank you

I do not mean virginity makes a guy a princess. I'm purely speaking of archetypes used in stories and where Alistair fits. Ugh, I'm sorry if I'm confusing people. I'm kinda treating this as the writing critiques I had to do.

Not to worry. It's quite refreshing to see a guy who doesn't get the popularity of the character approaching it from an angle other than 'what the hell is wrong with you women?!' Usually this sort of thread starts with a full page diatribe,

Modifié par errant_knight, 27 novembre 2010 - 03:47 .

[Sarah1281]

I agree. I think him walking out on Landsmeet is one of his strongest points in the game as a character and says a lot about his convictions, but other people interpret that as a cowardly act. I see parallels between Alistair walking out at Landsmeet and Kaidan/Ashley walking away at Horizon in ME2. Both sets of characters are not convinced that the PC is on the right path and are standing their ground instead of continuing to be lapdogs. Does that make sense?

I think the difference is (and why I can respect Kaidan/Ashley's decision on Horizen but not Alistair's although it's not like he ever makes it in my games as I make him marry Anora) that Kaidan/Ashley work for the Alliance and Cerberus is, officially, a criminal organization. They have seen all the bad about Cerberus that you have but the only good that you can see comes when they help you and Kaidan/Ashley aren't there while Alistair sees every little reason you might have to spare Loghain as he's with you the entire time. Additionally, they couldn't have come with you and helped no matter what they felt so it was less of a big deal.

Alistair leaves to become king, I am fine with. I am actually more comfortable with that because I don't want the new king dead before his coronation and being a GW is very dangerous. Should he have left the Wardens and gone to fight with Teagan or Eamon's men, I would have been fine with that as well. Him leaving because he has a problem with your actions even though Ferelden is on the verge of destruction? There is a time and a place for moral outrage sending you completely out of the country and the Landsmeet when the darkspawn had taken half the country was not either.

I can see his opinion and I'm not addressing the validity of it but I don't see him walking away and letting Ferelden burn for all he acts to try to save it as a show of strength.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 27 novembre 2010 - 03:49 .

[Sueno]

Gilsa wrote...

Sueno wrote...

I also liked that Alistair walked out on the landsmeet when you choose to make Loghain a gray warden because it was very much in character for him to do so. Alistair is emotional and often times bases his decisions on how he feels at the moment. But I'm guessing from what I'm reading this is what females like about Alistair, the fact that he is over emotional.

I agree. I think him walking out on Landsmeet is one of his strongest points in the game as a character and says a lot about his convictions, but other people interpret that as a cowardly act. I see parallels between Alistair walking out at Landsmeet and Kaidan/Ashley walking away at Horizon in ME2. Both sets of characters are not convinced that the PC is on the right path and are standing their ground instead of continuing to be lapdogs. Does that make sense?

Oh no, it wasn't cowardly at all. It was emotional and gutsy but sometimes you have to go with your gut. I think I'll agree with you about the "standing their ground" point. Although Alistair was very emotional during the landsmeet,  allowing Loghain to live after he took the life of Duncan was the one thing Alistair was unwilling compromise. Although I think Kaidan/Ashley would have been more understanding if they had been in the loop I do believe their actions were driven by the same motive as Alistair; the unwillingness to bend their beliefs for another.

[Zavrian]

I shouldn't post this, I should just shut up.



But, being me, I can't.



Normally I sympathize with Gaider, but when he talked about how instead of Alistair the next leading man would be so macho and stoic and uber-badass (MaleHawke, anyone?) I think he was missing the point.



I don't hate Alistair because he isn't macho, or because he's emotional or vulnerable.



I hate him because he's.....an.....idiot.



You don't make Khalid a Grand Duke. You don't make Anomen a member of the Council of Six. You don't make Alistair King. Yes, I know that none of those characters are the same as eachother. If that's you answer, you missed the point, like Gaider did.

[errant_knight]

Good luck with convincing anyone that the writer doesn't understand the character or the plot. Oh, and I think you're lost. The 'Why do you hate Alistair thread' is over there. *points far, far away* This one is pretty much the opposite. Oh, but you got that from the OP, right? That's why you said you should shut up.

[Zavrian]

Funny, I thought the "we mindlessly worship Alistair" thread was a few posts *down*. And that this one was, you know, an actual even-handed one. My mistake.