472 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

errant_knight wrote...

Good luck with convincing anyone that the writer doesn't understand the character or the plot. Oh, and I think you're lost. The 'Why do you hate Alistair thread' is over there. *points far, far away* This one is pretty much the opposite. Oh, but you got that from the OP, right? That's why you said you should shut up.

You know, the meaning I got from that post was 'I don't think DG understands why some people don't like Alistair' and not 'I don't think DG understands his own character.' That may or may not be true but the former is certainly more likely and less presumptuous than the latter.

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Good luck with convincing anyone that the writer doesn't understand the character or the plot. Oh, and I think you're lost. The 'Why do you hate Alistair thread' is over there. *points far, far away* This one is pretty much the opposite. Oh, but you got that from the OP, right? That's why you said you should shut up.

You know, the meaning I got from that post was 'I don't think DG understands why some people don't like Alistair' and not 'I don't think DG understands his own character.' That may or may not be true but the former is certainly more likely and less presumptuous than the latter.

 Perhaps not. I was assuming a fairly high level of presumptuousness based on posting that here at all.

Modifié par errant_knight, 27 novembre 2010 - 04:44 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Zavrian wrote...

Funny, I thought the "we mindlessly worship Alistair" thread was a few posts *down*. And that this one was, you know, an actual even-handed one. My mistake.

Actually, I think this thread was a request from the OP as to why the fangirls like him. It's not a love-and-hate thread, it's a search for some understanding on what his appeal is.

[Zjarcal]

Zavrian wrote...

Normally I sympathize with Gaider, but when he talked about how instead of Alistair the next leading man would be so macho and stoic and uber-badass (MaleHawke, anyone?) I think he was missing the point.

I don't hate Alistair because he isn't macho, or because he's emotional or vulnerable.

I hate him because he's.....an.....idiot.

You don't make Khalid a Grand Duke. You don't make Anomen a member of the Council of Six. You don't make Alistair King. Yes, I know that none of those characters are the same as eachother. If that's you answer, you missed the point, like Gaider did.

I'm confused.

Are you saying Gaider missed the point because he rewrote Alistair as the character he is? Or that he missed the point by making it possible that Alistair could be king? Or that he misses the point in thinking that people hate Alistair because he isn't "macho"?

And what's with the whole "you missed the point, like Gaider did"? Trying to pass on your opinion as fact?

And before you ask, no, I am not a "mindless Alistair fan". Quite the opposite in fact, not a fan of him at all.

[Lord_Anthonior]

Zavrian wrote...

I shouldn't post this, I should just shut up.

But, being me, I can't.

Normally I sympathize with Gaider, but when he talked about how instead of Alistair the next leading man would be so macho and stoic and uber-badass (MaleHawke, anyone?) I think he was missing the point.

I don't hate Alistair because he isn't macho, or because he's emotional or vulnerable.

I hate him because he's.....an.....idiot.

You don't make Khalid a Grand Duke. You don't make Anomen a member of the Council of Six. You don't make Alistair King. Yes, I know that none of those characters are the same as eachother.

Lol that...was...funny!!!! There are just things in life that are just as simple as that lol.

It is however obvious that female players like alistair though I find interesting how a female player doesn't find him as appealing as the mayority of the ladies. Its a diversity of views and opinions that are welcome to mention.

As a male player I suppose that if alistair had been less childish or whinny I would have come to respect him as a brother in arms, a Warden and a future king.  If in the development of his personality made him a warden who suggest strategies, tactics, options instead of just "I leave it all up to you" then I would have thought of him as a fellow soldier but since that is not the case, then in my playthroughs I leave him at camp the entire game for the same reason as quoted above.

Also for a male player, what king of man liked to have a friend calling their Love interest a b**** or Crazy in the case of Leliana? Not even in real life you tolerate a friend calling your girlfriend things, that's an unwritten rule and part of the code.

I think that as a sort of "hidden tutorial" he could have played in the conversations ideas and tactics then he could have been a character worth having in the party as a soldier before the fight, but that's an alternative option that doesn't exist.

[Zjarcal]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Also for a male player, what king of man liked to have a friend calling their Love interest a b**** or Crazy in the case of Leliana? Not even in real life you tolerate a friend calling your girlfriend things, that's an unwritten rule and part of the code.

Hey, that was not just for male players!! <_<

And yes, that was one seriously annoying faux pas on behalf of Alistair.

[Giggles_Manically]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Also for a male player, what king of man liked to have a friend calling their Love interest a b**** or Crazy in the case of Leliana? Not even in real life you tolerate a friend calling your girlfriend things, that's an unwritten rule and part of the code.

Hey, that was not just for male players!! <_<

And yes, that was one seriously annoying faux pas on behalf of Alistair.

That was when there was need of a slap Alistair mod.

[Persephone]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Also for a male player, what king of man liked to have a friend calling their Love interest a b**** or Crazy in the case of Leliana? Not even in real life you tolerate a friend calling your girlfriend things, that's an unwritten rule and part of the code.

Hey, that was not just for male players!! <_<

And yes, that was one seriously annoying faux pas on behalf of Alistair.

Very true. Remember how HE reacts if the Warden disses people HE cares about? Self-centered to the core.

[errant_knight]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Zavrian wrote...

Funny, I thought the "we mindlessly worship Alistair" thread was a few posts *down*. And that this one was, you know, an actual even-handed one. My mistake.

Actually, I think this thread was a request from the OP as to why the fangirls like him. It's not a love-and-hate thread, it's a search for some understanding on what his appeal is.

Exactly.

[Janni-in-VA]

I've romanced Alistair and romanced Zevran.  While I generally prefer Zevran, there are reasons I enjoy Alistair also.  Many of them have been touched on in earlier posts, but I'll just reiterate what appeals to me.

Yes, Alistair is a teddy bear/woobie.  I just want to cuddle him and wipe even the slightest hint of a frown from his noble brow.  I find his naivete in love refreshing and endearing.  In terms of experience, he's a boy to Zevran's man.  That's not at all a bad thing; as I said, it's refreshing and endearing.  I certainly understand his lack of self-confidence, having suffered from similar in my own youth (even though I had the advantage of supporting, loving parents).  That he is has retained his sense of humor and optimism despite a very difficult upbringing is a big point in his favor.  (As it is with Zevran, to be honest.)  Also, Alistair has a very firm moral compass.  He knows what is right and wrong (based, of course, on his beliefs and upbringing) and isn't afraid to tell you when he feels you're not on the right track.  I like the fact that he's willing to listen to and understand your reasons for acting as you did and maintain Warden solidarity.  I found his physical look appealing also -- good looking rather than classically handsome, if that makes sense.  And Steve Valentine's voice acting is absolutely top notch.  (I did recognize his voice almost right away, although I had to check the credits to get the name.  I knew I knew that voice, just couldn't come up with a name right off.)  When he says, "Maker's breath, but you're beautiful," my Warden just dissolves into a puddle of goo.    There's a warmth and richness in his voice that just draws me in.  (They say that men fall in love with their eyes, and women with their ears.)

"I understand.  I'm minded of a comment by the camp fire where Alistair notes that it is better than the stables: Even here he is retrospective.  To state that he is carrying a lot of baggage is too obvious but to claim that he 'needs' that baggage ,imo, isn't.  I think Alistair has dis-comfort blanket and that to me renders him a coward. 

This could well be the case, but since he's barely 21, he hasn't been given the time or the opportunity to shake it off..."

You have to grow into your strength.  It takes life experience to learn that you can survive the things that life will inevitably throw at you.  Alistair hasn't yet had the necessary experience.  This is part of his character's growth through the game.  Alistair's on the right track, he just has to build the necessary confidence and self-respect.

"He is alot [sic] like the rose he picked in Lothering, something that if not picked and cared for, can end up becoming corrupted in the tide of darkness that is more prevalent.

Skadi, that's a good analogy..."

I agree with Maria, that is an excellent analogy.

Edited to add:  "But I'm guessing from what I'm reading this is what females like about Alistair, the fact that he is over emotional. "

Over emotional?  No, I don't see that, but he does tend to wear his heart on his sleeve.  I think "over emotional" only fits if you're trying to compare him to more traditionally macho warrior characters.  I prefer to take characters, like people, as they come and tend to err on the side of perhaps being too tolerant.  Perhaps.

As a note re Alistair's appearance, I do use a mod which changes his appearance somewhat as I do for all my companions except Morrigan and Wynne.  It may be found here:  www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php.  I also use the Whiter Teeth mod found here:  www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php.  If you'd like to see my version of Alistair, check the screenshots on my profile. 

Modifié par Janni-in-VA, 27 novembre 2010 - 05:48 .

[Lord_Anthonior]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Also for a male player, what king of man liked to have a friend calling their Love interest a b**** or Crazy in the case of Leliana? Not even in real life you tolerate a friend calling your girlfriend things, that's an unwritten rule and part of the code.

Hey, that was not just for male players!! <_<

And yes, that was one seriously annoying faux pas on behalf of Alistair.

hehe my apologies Zjarcal, I did said "For a male player" because I'm a male player I can only mention my own perspective, but I do know what you mean also for female players in the case of Leliana.

I think I remember in my first playthroughs when I use to have high approval with alistair that once he started to gossip and he called Morrigan "a complete and utter B****" and also "I think Leliana is crazy" I thought: "okay dude, you are eventually gonna pay for that" at least Morrigan only refers to alistair as a toadstool and a simpleton not an A**H** so she kept her posture and that was good of her making me loving her even more. 

[Zjarcal]

@Lord_Anthonior:

No problem, I just have a pet peeve of getting ticked off when people forget that Leli is BI. 

@Persephone:

Agreed. I do realize that Alistair's intention was NOT to ****** off the player, which is why I don't hold that incident in such high regard.

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Alistair took my story. So I made him a drunk. 

Revenge is sweet.

Priceless! :happy:

Modifié par Zjarcal, 27 novembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[Janni-in-VA]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Actually, I think this thread was a request from the OP as to why the fangirls like him. It's not a love-and-hate thread, it's a search for some understanding on what his appeal is.

This  ^  Let's try to stay on track.  :happy:  I'm all for an interesting, give-and-take, civil discussion of why Alistair is appealing.  That being said, I have to regard myself as more of a Zevran fangirl.  I like Alistair as a LI, just not as much as I like Zevran.

Glaucon wrote...

@Janni-in-VA

I suppose I am guilty
of expecting too much from a man/boy of his age -- especially if I set
aside his military training in the Templars. That said, my Warden took
every dialogue option that allows you to suggest to Alistair that his
perspective is skewed and that seeing the world through his ?-tinted
spectacles won't help him at all. I don't hate Alistair: I would gladly
share a trench with him and have him as a friend. I just find him weak
psychologically and see the sort of traits that he displays as an
indicator that he uses his past as a crutch to explain his
present.

Do I understand you correctly if I say that you feel Alistair uses his past as an excuse rather than a reason?  There's a fine distinction between the two.  If so, I respectfully disagree.  I don't see him wallowing in the "woe is me" mud puddle.  I feel that he simply tells you about his life as it was and then leaves you free to interpret that the way you wish.  I just take it as information, much like learning that Zevran was purchased by the Crows at the age of seven, rather than Alistair's attempt to rationalize his actions.  (I'm not sure "rationalize" is the word I want, so I apologize if it seems a clumsy choice.)

Modifié par Janni-in-VA, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:01 .

[Gilsa]

Sarah1281 wrote...

They have seen all the bad about Cerberus that you have but the only good that you can see comes when they help you and Kaidan/Ashley aren't there while Alistair sees every little reason you might have to spare Loghain as he's with you the entire time. Additionally, they couldn't have come with you and helped no matter what they felt so it was less of a big deal.

I only spared Loghain for one reason. I don't participate in Loghain adoration threads so you're probably familiar with more reasons to spare Loghain, but my point was that both characters stuck to their convictions. They could have left the Alliance and joined Cerebus if they wanted. Jacob did it.

I can see his opinion and I'm not addressing the validity of it but I don't see him walking away and letting Ferelden burn for all he acts to try to save it as a show of strength.

He's mad and he ends up regretting it down the road. I find that people like to hold Alistair and Wynne to higher standards than the rest of the NPCs in the game.

[Sabariel]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Also for a male player, what king of man liked to have a friend calling their Love interest a b**** or Crazy in the case of Leliana? Not even in real life you tolerate a friend calling your girlfriend things, that's an unwritten rule and part of the code.

Hey, that was not just for male players!! <_<

And yes, that was one seriously annoying faux pas on behalf of Alistair.

hehe my apologies Zjarcal, I did said "For a male player" because I'm a male player I can only mention my own perspective, but I do know what you mean also for female players in the case of Leliana.

I think I remember in my first playthroughs when I use to have high approval with alistair that once he started to gossip and he called Morrigan "a complete and utter B****" and also "I think Leliana is crazy" I thought: "okay dude, you are eventually gonna pay for that" at least Morrigan only refers to alistair as a toadstool and a simpleton not an A**H** so she kept her posture and that was good of her making me loving her even more. 

When does Alistair call Leliana crazy? He asks if you think she's crazy. I've never had him call her crazy or ever agree with me if my response was "Yup, she's nuttier than a nutcake."

As for Morrigan, she is a beotch, but I still love her anyway

Finally, in the case of Alistair, I like him because he's cute, sweet, and just a little fuzzy like an apricot

[Addai]

Sueno wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Uh... we must be operating under very different standards of normal.  LOL  I would say that Alistair is more your boy next door type romance, whereas falling for an assassin with a checkered bedroom history doesn't seem like the obvious thing to me.  (Zevran's romance is so poignant for some of the underlying and what I found surprising depth.)  But... could you stop referring to Alsitair as a princess? 

Ha-ha, I'm sorry I am unable to fulfill your request. I believe Alistair shares many traits with the princess archetype. Being virginal is one of them (there stories upon stories filled with virginal princesses).

I'm sure this is my complete lack of familiarity with anime that makes me shrug and say "ok, whatever."  I have no such associations.  Medieval literature is replete with knights who maintain celibacy out of a sense of honor.  I don't think that is Alistair so much, since he mostly points to his lack of opportunity as the reason, but he also won't sleep with a woman casually and has apparently turned away Denerim's ladies of the evening in the past.  That's the literary association I make, if any.

The bad boy is very normal character in the world of romance. Zevran is very typical. And judging from this forum discussion there have been many females who felt an urge to change, or care for Alistair. But what is the difference between Alistair and Zevran? Zevran has high high self-esteem and Alistair doesn't and I think people are cluing into this on a consious or subconsious level and want Alistair to learn to love himself. When you compare Zev's past to Alistair's there's no contest as to who had it worse. However, Alistair seems to hold more of a negative view of what took place in his youth. Maybe if he was as egotistical as Zev some females may not be as drawn to him as they are.

But some women prefer Zevran, so we really can't stereotype too much.  Alistair is sexy, charming and funny.  It's really not rocket science, is it?

Modifié par Addai67, 27 novembre 2010 - 05:58 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Glaucon wrote...

"Uh oh more crazy, and I thought we were all full up.".

She is more the oOhh pretty colours than the "bwahahaha! Im princess stabbity stab stab kill kill!" type.

[Sabariel]

I stand corrected! Though at that point Alistair wasn't speaking of a potential friend/lover of the Warden and some random woman claiming to have visions and wanting to come with you out of the blue does seem a little crazy... which is why I didn't recruit Leliana in my first playthrough

[Janni-in-VA]

Gilsa wrote...

He's mad and he ends up regretting it down the road. I find that people like to hold Alistair and Wynne to higher standards than the rest of the NPCs in the game.

I think that's actually a pretty fair assessment.  I've yet to spare Loghain.  Apparently, I'm far too vindictive, so I've not seen that scene play out, but I does seem to me to be in character.  Short-sighted and a bit harsh, perhaps, but in character.


Added:  Does it seem that perhaps Alistair is intended to appeal to a younger audience while Zevran is aimed at an older audience?  Alistair would certainly have been appealing to me in my youth.  He has a certain idealism and a lack of confidence which I associate with a younger person.  Again, this is mostly a matter of experience rather than actual calendar years.

Modifié par Janni-in-VA, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:13 .

[Zjarcal]

Sabariel wrote...

I stand corrected! Though at that point Alistair wasn't speaking of a potential friend/lover of the Warden and some random woman claiming to have visions and wanting to come with you out of the blue does seem a little crazy... which is why I didn't recruit Leliana in my first playthrough

Yeah, I have to agree with that. At the moment you weren't in a relationship with Leliana so you can't really get mad at him for calling her crazy right there. It's not like some of my wardens haven't asked for a further explanation from her... 

(I LOVE YOU LELI!)

But I do somewhat resent the way he speaks of her during his "gossip" conversation. Actually, I just flat out hate that conversation. I hate the idea of gossiping about people and talking behind their backs.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:16 .

[Lord_Anthonior]

Sabariel wrote...

When does Alistair call Leliana crazy? He asks if you think she's crazy. I've never had him call her crazy or ever agree with me if my response was "Yup, she's nuttier than a nutcake."

As for Morrigan, she is a beotch, but I still love her anyway

Finally, in the case of Alistair, I like him because he's cute, sweet, and just a little fuzzy like an apricot

I believe that he calls her crazy at the very moment in Lothering after accepting or while accepting her to join the party. "More crazy? I thought we were all packed up" something like that. I thought: "dude! again? you don't want any ladies in the party or what?? or do you want to defeat the Blight by your own?...if no then shut up!" so in away he does calls Leliana crazy.

That ".....I still love her anyway" made me count to 10 and calm down 

Modifié par Lord_Anthonior, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:13 .