106 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

Besides, it's official word by God, I mean David Gaider, that Wardens can indeed have children, except with other Wardens. So, dynastic problems mostly solved.

Actually the official word is that wardens can only have children with extreme difficulty and never with other wardens.  This does indeed damage the Cousland line.

Also FIRST Sons were almost never sent into the Church or knightly orders and as far as Duncan knows (as does Bryce), your Human Noble is the last of the line.  What you say about second sons only applies to largish famiies with abundant heirs.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

DPSSOC wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Bolloxs.  Duncan was no more apolical than Ronald Reagan was.  Conscripting the last (known) surviving Cousland, running interference and misleading Logain (per Return to Ostagar) are all intensely political acts and the Grey Wardens pay for those acts dearly.

Maybe you need to take Loghain back to Ostagar but what the hell are you talking about?

When you talk to the King's bodyguard and ask him why Duncan wasn't given the key to the King's chest, he says that he was too busy with his new recruits and running interference against Logain (an openly political act).

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

Um, excuse me? Duncan saves your life and wants something in exchange. So? The Cousland line is still secure at that moment, since it's only AFTER Ostagar that Fergus is missing.

On the contrary, given how carefully Arl Howe planned the assault, it is unreasonable to think that he didn't have something planned for Fergus as well....and that means that for both Bryce and Duncan, your PC is likely the last surviving Cousland.  At least that's the assumption that needs to be made.

Sending off the second son to a (military or religious) order was common practice even in medieval Europe, if not to secure the right of the firstborn over his brother. Duncan doesn't consciously weaken anything at that moment.

Already answered and no it wasn't common for second sons since they were the "spare" (as in Heir and a Spare).  It was common for third or lesser sons....but that's only in families with heirs to spare...emphatically not the case here.

Anything to stop the Blight. Should he better have left the HN to die at Highever? Would you have preferred that, Mr oh so righteous? This is War. Quid pro quo. I need able recruits, so I save your second son and he joins the order. Your heir to the Teynir is still happily on his way to Ostagar and we'll catch up with him there.

If you take that to it's logical conclusion, then Duncan should have saved Ser Gilmore and kept completely out of the politics.  Failing that, he should save the Teryn's son to insure political support for fighting the blight.  Sometimes it's better NOT to recruit than to recruit.

-Polaris

[Addai]

IanPolaris wrote...

Alistair does NOT say that Grey Wardens have the right to conscript all the time.  He very specifically says (pull up the dialog lines youself) that they only have that right (in Fereldan) during a time of blight as confirmed by King Maric.  He also says the GWs have to use it sparingly.

I did.  He says "King Maric re-instituted the right of conscription that was given to the Wardens during the Blights."  He is referring to the historical inception of the practice.  Wardens were first given the traditional right after the Blights.  Alistair does NOT say that they only have it during Blights.  Besides which Alistair is not the perfect fount of information on Wardening.

They don't have that right from the crown unconditionally.  Anders proves my point on this.  If you don't want to be conscripted you CAN appeal to the crown (as can those who otherwise have rights to you).  This is canon in DAA.

Anders proves nothing.  As I said upthread, that is a case of mediation between the Wardens and the Chantry.  The Fereldan monarch is acting as judge between two power blocs.

As for Daveth, that WAS during a time of blight (as was your City Elf) and in neither case was their real polical impact from conscripting a commoner convict.  Huge difference here.....so much so I am shocked you even bothered to bring it up.

The reason I bring it up is that it shows the same pattern.  The Wardens don't have to ask permission.  They just do it.

Bolloxs.  Duncan was no more apolical than Ronald Reagan was.  Conscripting the last (known) surviving Cousland, running interference and misleading Logain (per Return to Ostagar) are all intensely political acts and the Grey Wardens pay for those acts dearly.

That is speculation on yours and Loghain's part, but nothing shows Duncan was politically involved.  Not even in the HN origin.  He did not press conscription of the Cousland until there was no other alternative.

I want to see a lot less hero worship of Duncan.  At least when it comes to the HN background the man was a rat and should be regarded as such.

-Polaris

Well I already said I think that origin proves he can be a real bastard.  So we agree there.  I don't view it as being a "rat."  He does what he feels is necessary for the sake of saving the world from an existential threat which supercedes politics.

[DPSSOC]

IanPolaris wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Bolloxs.  Duncan was no more apolical than Ronald Reagan was.  Conscripting the last (known) surviving Cousland, running interference and misleading Logain (per Return to Ostagar) are all intensely political acts and the Grey Wardens pay for those acts dearly.

Maybe you need to take Loghain back to Ostagar but what the hell are you talking about?

When you talk to the King's bodyguard and ask him why Duncan wasn't given the key to the King's chest, he says that he was too busy with his new recruits and running interference against Logain (an openly political act).

-Polaris

Hmm can't recall, will have to recheck (yay excuse for new playthrough).

[Addai]

DPSSOC wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Bolloxs.  Duncan was no more apolical than Ronald Reagan was.  Conscripting the last (known) surviving Cousland, running interference and misleading Logain (per Return to Ostagar) are all intensely political acts and the Grey Wardens pay for those acts dearly.

Maybe you need to take Loghain back to Ostagar but what the hell are you talking about?

When you talk to the King's bodyguard and ask him why Duncan wasn't given the key to the King's chest, he says that he was too busy with his new recruits and running interference against Logain (an openly political act).

-Polaris

Hmm can't recall, will have to recheck (yay excuse for new playthrough).

Even so, that is simply Elric's perception, and not surprising given that Duncan's goal is to get as many Wardens into Ferelden as possible and Loghain's is to keep the Orlesians out.  They are at odds in their primary military goal.  The question is how to defeat the Blight, not Fereldan politics.

[IanPolaris]

Addai67 wrote...

Even so, that is simply Elric's perception, and not surprising given that Duncan's goal is to get as many Wardens into Ferelden as possible and Loghain's is to keep the Orlesians out.  They are at odds in their primary military goal.  The question is how to defeat the Blight, not Fereldan politics.

Actually it's both.  Logain is openly hostile to the Wardens even before the battle of Ostagar, and Duncan does indeed play politics against Logain failing only in getting Cailan (that idiot) to wait.

-Polaris