280 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

On the plus side, Robyn is a babe.

[ErichHartmann]

I get the feeling she doesn't like RPGs in general. My geek detector says no.

[biostarfan]

Maria Caliban wrote...

biostarfan wrote...

can some one post a YouTube video? I'm stuck on an iPhone.

Don't know if you're still around but here it is.

thnx, can't say
that it was entirly worth it, but thanks nonetheless. lol.

[henkez3]

When is Bioware gonna start backing up all their fancy words with actual gameplay vids?



... Yes I'm impatient!

[Dave of Canada]

LTD wrote...

You know what's less irritating than Bioware's PR? Teletubbies, that's what. I wish I were 11-16 year old horny male. I'd slide nicely in the middle of marketing demographic  and thus fail to find all of this incredibly ****ing stupid. Would mean skin problems though:(

That's adorable, how you find the marketing to be for 11-16 year olds.

Will people on this forum ever realise they aren't the majority and in reality they aren't as important to the marketing as they think they do?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 novembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[slimgrin]

Dave of Canada wrote...

LTD wrote...

You know what's less irritating than Bioware's PR? Teletubbies, that's what. I wish I were 11-16 year old horny male. I'd slide nicely in the middle of marketing demographic  and thus fail to find all of this incredibly ****ing stupid. Would mean skin problems though:(

That's adorable, how you find the marketing to be for 11-16 year olds.

Will people on this forum ever realise they aren't the majority and in reality they aren't as important to the marketing as they think they do?

I'm wondering why Bioware assumes those on forums are so different than the majority. I still think their marketing for DA and DA2 is odd to say the least, if not plain misleading. It's like they are aiming for gamers who wouldn't like rpg's in the first place. They still need to convince those that do. 

[Brockololly]

The problem with these vague interviews and such is that sure, they aren't targeted at us forum goers. But I don't know they're doing much of anything to those they are targeted towards either.

You look at the comments and such on the sites these sorts of things are posted on and its more often than not one big shoulder shrug of indifference. These marketing buzzwords mean absolutely nothing if you can;t actively illustrate them with some gameplay. If you want to say "press button something awesome happens"- memo: show somebody playing DA2 and pressing a button and showing something awesome happening- especially because maybe your version of "awesome" doesn't mesh with what I'd think something awesome is.

Modifié par Brockololly, 27 novembre 2010 - 04:02 .

[fchopin]

More of the same rubbish.

[Lyssistr]

Robyn is really pretty

[TJPags]

In Exile wrote...

Have people ever considered what it means to have to explain a complex feature to an audience that may be unfamiliar with it? It's not something easy it all - you would need to demonstrate the feature in detail and explain it as you're doing so. Given the length of these publicity spots, you're likely only getting one feature to explain, like the inventory podcast focused only on that.
What happens if Joe New Fan looks at your commercial and happens not to care about this feature? Ignores the game. Stupid over-the-top marketing is designed to funnel people to information sources. Whether that is effective or not, we'll see.

This can be solved very easily by actually showing us some of the 'awesomeness' which occurs when someone actually presses a button.

You know, gameplay footage.  I don't care what platform it is.  The trailers aren't gameplay footage, so telling us how amazing the game is while showing us a trailer is getting old.

[Vylan Antagonist]

slimgrin wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

That's adorable, how you find the marketing to be for 11-16 year olds.

Will people on this forum ever realise they aren't the majority and in reality they aren't as important to the marketing as they think they do?

I'm wondering why Bioware assumes those on forums are so different than the majority. I still think their marketing for DA and DA2 is odd to say the least, if not plain misleading. It's like they are aiming for gamers who wouldn't like rpg's in the first place. They still need to convince those that do. 

I have no idea who they are targeting.
 
In the forums I frequent, the marketing for both DA:O and DA2 was (and is currently) ridiculed. With DA:O, the naysayers were balanced out by an equal number of potential buyers taking a wait-and-see approach, but both sides were united in finding the 'THIS IS THE NEW S**T!!!' marketing absolutely head-scratchingly and cringe-inducingly awful. For the posters willing to give the game a chance, the marketing was simply embarassing, whereas the critics who had already made up their minds found the trailer to be a source of endless hilarity. When Giantbomb's playthrough finally emerged, it was like we'd finally waded through the relentless deluge of angsty adolescent pap into something comfortingly normal and familiar.

Outside of those forums, discussing the game with less opinionated and jaded gamers, the advertising was met with mixed reactions. The actual battle scenes and action portrayed seemed to resonate, but the screeching Manson track made them inclined to dismiss it as probable crap. Of the ones that purchased it (a mixed lot encompassing a marine with vacation cabins and a penchant for hunting, a proud Green Egg-owning grillmaster who prefers FPS games, and a 'best of everything' certified PMP who always feels embarassed after spending an hour playing a game), the first two enjoyed it, but did so in spite of the marketing. 

It just doesn't seem to me that even games in much more adrenalized segments are marketed with this level of repetitiveness and reliance on catchphrases. CoD, MoH, even Saint's Row 2 (with Busey, fer crissakes!)- None of them seemed remotely as puerile, and with Saint's Row 2 in the mix, that's really saying something. So I just have no conception of who they see this campaign as reaching. It's truly baffling.

Modifié par Vylan Antagonist, 27 novembre 2010 - 05:52 .

[MerinTB]

Brockololly wrote...

The problem with these vague interviews and such is that sure, they aren't targeted at us forum goers. But I don't know they're doing much of anything to those they are targeted towards either.

You look at the comments and such on the sites these sorts of things are posted on and its more often than not one big shoulder shrug of indifference. These marketing buzzwords mean absolutely nothing if you can;t actively illustrate them with some gameplay. If you want to say "press button something awesome happens"- memo: show somebody playing DA2 and pressing a button and showing something awesome happening- especially because maybe your version of "awesome" doesn't mesh with what I'd think something awesome is.

The problem with this marketing is that they are targetting a SMALL, NICHE gaming demographic.  It isn't us forum gooers for the most part, but let me tell you -
I don't have any people I know in the wide array of...
scratch that, for honesty's sake...
I know of 1 guy, personally, who liked the DA:O advertising.  My (then) 16 year old nephew.  And, without insulting him (I don't want to) or stereotyping anyone, he's a console gamer who likes FPS stuff, God of War stuff, and is very "male" in the most basic understanding of that categorization.

The two guys I do my IG podcast with?  On is in his mid twenties, the other is mid thirties.  The one is an editor at a newspaper who's whip-smart, owns a Mac and a PS2 and a 360, but doesn't follow any gaming advertising or websites and the only DA:O ads he saw I showed to him.  The other is a graphic designer, plays a lot of Madden but otherwise is not a big gamer at all, and prefers Kurosawa films, Ayn Rand novels and stuff like Old Boy and (the original) Solarus.  He did see the DA:O marketing.

I can branch to friends I game with or customers at my comic book store... most of whom have not played or are not interested in DA:O.  But there's a couple guys who were really hyped on the DA:O marketing and didn't play much of the game because the advertising for the game was not what the game actually played like (they both hated the game.)

There are others whom I know that I've honestly never talked about the advertising with (my brother and bro-in-law, both of whom didn't really enjoy DA:O much so I'm curiousif they saw the ads and what they thought of them now) but any sense that "the marketing is for people who don't visit these forums" fails my (decidedly unscientific, absolutely not a significant sample size) anecdotal evidence.

Long rant short - of the people I know, those who LIKED DA:O were either turned off or, at best, meh on the ads like "The new S*%T" (and honestly many of my friends tried the game because *I* was hyping it to them for years before it was released, not because of any ads), and the very few people I know who LIKED the ads all didn't finish and didn't like DA:O.

Marketing failure.

Meanwhile, with DA2's marketing, they have successfully turned me into someone who's badmouthing the game anytime it's brought up amongst friends and family - and as a result, there are plenty of "that sounds horrible, I'm probably not going to touch it."  Not everyone... there are a couple people who DIDN'T like DA:O whom I tell that they will probably LIKE DA2 now (I'm not a jerk to everyone at all... I like to help people find stuff they'll enjoy), but that's a very small percentage.

I, personally, do not even pretend to have a clue on marketing demographics for video games (though I'd like to say I knew something about movie demographics a few years back fairly well) so maybe the DA2 decisions will be very successful for BioWare overall.  I do know, however, that in my little corner of the world the game will sell much less.

[TJPags]

You know, I don't mind trailers at all.  Cinematics are cool to see, and they give me some indication of what the concept of the game is.

However, that really only goes so far.  I've seen games with great trailers which had the most atrocious (IMO) gameplay ever.  It's kind of like a movie trailer (at least those are actual footage from the film, though) where you see the trailers, think "this is going to be great" then go see it only to realize - the only actual good parts are what you saw in the trailer.

Showing me the same old trailer time and again, even dubbing interviews over it, does nothing for me anymore.  Telling me a game is awesome, that awesome things happen when you press a button, that it's so much better than the first game, that doesn't do much for me either.

I'd think this is true for almost anyone who regularly plays games, that they've had this same experience - trailer great, game bad.  These things may get my attention, but I really want to see more than just the same trailers and hear more than just the same tired catchphrases.

But maybe I'm just old and jaded . . .

[ErichHartmann]

Any type of marketing is simply hype. Although the L.A. Noire trailer managed to impress me by only using the ingame engine. I don't need to be reassured by BioWare though. I have confidence in their abilities.

[upsettingshorts]

I don't have as big of an issue it seems with what Bioware's done so far. I've graduated from ambivalence to indifference when it comes to marketing. That being said, I do believe there is a distinction to be made between a "gameplayer trailer" and "a trailer that shows stuff taken from gameplay." The former shows the actual act of playing the game, the latter just shows something from the game. The notion that Rise to Power - I think that was the name - is a gameplay trailer is one I'd dispute. The value in proper gameplay trailers is that they give the audience an insight into what the game will play like, if it doesn't it may as well be another cinematic trailer that was simply rendered in the gameplay engine.

ErichHartmann wrote...
Although the L.A. Noire trailer managed to impress me by only using the ingame engine.

That's a pretty good exception to my general point - something that advertises aspects of the game's engine as a genuine gameplay feature as L.A. Noire does - would have a point if they said their trailer featured gameplay because they've said that reading the facial expressions and body language of actors within the game will be a big part of your job as a detective, so demonstrating that they can in fact be read is pretty useful information.

Granted, that just means there will be threads on a Rockstar forum somewhere complaining that "so-and-so didn't look angry to me."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2010 - 05:39 .

[slimgrin]

scyphozoa wrote...

I am pretty sure we are the core fan base on these forums. We care the most, we know the most about specific products and content. Most gamers are not so compelled to go to a forum community and express themselves, or all the other things that make up the BSN. So yeah, we are very different from the millions of people who buy Bioware games. This community is pretty small, and you have to remember, we are probably the top 2% most committed of the fanbase.

I think the marketing is geared specifically towards people who are not familiar with the franchise. The responsibility of every game, and in turn, every marketing campaign, is to introduce the product to as many people as possible and to get them interested. I don't think we will ever see a trailer that is custom tailored to us as the top 2%, that doesn't mean we won't like (some of) the marketing, but that the marketing is not designed specifically for us.

Then explain to me why the marketing for ME2 was both effective and informative. For everybody.

Personally, those previews, dev diaries, and snippets of gameplay ( of which there was quite a bit ) really got me amped for the game. But with DA, they want to throw all that out the window and make the game appealing to...I have no idea who.

I will say this: DA was a game mainly for adults, a mature title. I'm not seeing that so far in DA2, because I've heard no dialog, no story, only the barest outlines of a plot. The games about 3 months away. People who like Bioware's games are interested in that stuff, It's their bread and butter. You'd think they would want to show it off. 

[Dave of Canada]

slimgrin wrote...

Then explain to me why the marketing for ME2 was both effective and informative. For everybody.

You don't remember all the complaining?

[SarEnyaDor]

I know this is pages old now, but "Fight the Future" was the tagline from the first X-files movie, not ME2, that was "Fight for the Lost" and although I played ME2 alot, and enjoyed it, it was not as good a game as ME1 *AND* in ME2 Shep never really seemed to give a crap about the so-called Lost during all his/her running around recruiting missions until the one speech. *sigh*



I've already pre-ordered DA2, so no matter what it is like I will be getting it. I reserve judgement until I play it, but I can say because of the direction BioWare went when it "fixed" ME to make it better in ME2 I am much less confidant about how DA2 will be namely because I don't know if the hatchet vs scalpel analogy is a pattern yet.

[slimgrin]

Dave of Canada wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Then explain to me why the marketing for ME2 was both effective and informative. For everybody.

You don't remember all the complaining?

If it was on forums, then I wasn't here. I don't recall anyone ridiculing ME2's advertising campaign in the general media. Just the opposite. We got that mysterious trailer with the Geth focusing and then the N7 logo - that was it. Then more and more info leaked along with cinematics and gameplay, all of it with music fitting for the franchise. By the time it arrived my friends and I were bursting at the seams with excitement. So was the media. It was just effective advertising, and its so strange to see how they've handled DA, why they think it needs to be handled differently.

Another game that had brilliant marketing was Arkham Asylum.

Modifié par slimgrin, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Schuback wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Bah I am looking forward to playing my mage with the emphasis of thinking like a Spartan and fightiing like a General. That way everytime I do press a button something awesome will happen, because that is what happens when Generals fight. Much more so than when Spartans fight whilst thinking like Generals.

You do realise that usually Generals don't fight.

Usually... but then there is always...

"My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legion.."

Actually, now I've thought of that... sod fighting or thinking like a spartan, when you can just fight and think like a general such as the aforementioned one.

Maximus > Leonidas

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 27 novembre 2010 - 05:58 .

[hexaligned]

tmp7704 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's the dark second chapter.

Dark and sexy. Oh, and bloody, too.

Hmm, *has flashbacks to his ex with the blood fetish*

Does marketing only have to show up for work like 3 times a year or something?  Seems like we are due for some new info coming out.  Yes, color me impatient .

[Vylan Antagonist]

slimgrin wrote...

I will say this: DA was a game mainly for adults, a mature title.. 

Even this was undermined by the trailers and initial marketing. The numetal "Rargh! This is the new S##T" trailer came across as anything but 'mature'. It was mature like BMX XXX was mature, in that it seemed like it was all Blood! Gore! Big Effin Swords! Naked Chix! It was like Heavy Metal (The Movie), only without Moebius: Sex-soaked adolescent power fantasies cloaked in a veneer of maturity that seemed to appeal to anyone but the mature. It was like the Dead Alewives skit that Summoner animated, only without the tongue-in-cheek self-awareness.

Shortly afterwards, there was an extended clip with a dev showcasing in camp interactions with Morrigan. It was similarly embarassing, seemingly focusing on getting laid by giving Morrigan a locket. Again, it evoked memories of 'Are there any girls there? If so, I wanna do them!', announced around a mouthful of cheetos and Mountain Dew.

And that so wasn't the game, thank god. It was infinitely better than the marketing made it appear to be, much more layered and nuanced.

And the thing that most sold me on it, again, was not anything the marketing team did to promote it, but just seeing the Giantbomb crew playing it.

I enjoy good marketing. There's some very good marketing on the part of game developers these days. I particularly loved the GTAIV vignettes. They were absolutely bang-on. Halo marketing? Incredible, but obviously in a completely different class in terms of funding. 

Mass Effect? It lends a real gravitas. There's a sense of menace and cinematic import. Again, great stuff.

Dragon Age marketing is just... perplexing.

Modifié par Vylan Antagonist, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:10 .

[In Exile]

TJPags wrote...

This can be solved very easily by actually showing us some of the 'awesomeness' which occurs when someone actually presses a button.

You know, gameplay footage.  I don't care what platform it is.  The trailers aren't gameplay footage, so telling us how amazing the game is while showing us a trailer is getting old.

I suppose. I can't judge because I'm on media blackout for any release I follow so as to not spoil any part of the game. So I have no idea what the trailer does or does not show.

But you're right - there's no reason not to show how a button does something awesome. Keep in mind that criticizing Bioware for faling to meet their own standard (like you're doing) is not the same as criticizing them for failing to meet someone else's standard.

[Apollo Starflare]

slimgrin wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Then explain to me why the marketing for ME2 was both effective and informative. For everybody.

You don't remember all the complaining?

If it was on forums, then I wasn't here. I don't recall anyone ridiculing ME2's advertising campaign in the general media. Just the opposite. We got that mysterious trailer with the Geth focusing and then the N7 logo - that was it. Then more and more info leaked along with cinematics and gameplay, all of it with music fitting for the franchise. By the time it arrived my friends and I were bursting at the seams with excitement. So was the media. It was just effective advertising, and its so strange to see how they've handled DA, why they think it needs to be handled differently.

Another game that had brilliant marketing was Arkham Asylum.

I quite liked the marketing for ME2 on the whole. The blur trailers just for characters, the epic build up of the Collectors as a threat, interactive website elements, posters, all sorts! But there were certain buzzwords and phrases that got vastly overused, and that's mostly what I saw mocked on the forums around here and in some other places ('dark and gritty second act' 'emotionally engaging' 'Empire strikes back' etc.)