280 réponses à ce sujet

[Slayer299]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ME 2's slogan was "Fight the Future."

Wasn't that slogan also from one of the X-files movies?

[In Exile]

Here is one thing I don't understand. The release trailer for ME2 was almost a work of art. Say whatever you want about the game, but that thing was brilliant in terms of the production value, the atmosphere, the emotion it wanted to convey, etc. Just what is going on with the DA marketing in contrast?

MerinTB wrote...
Long rant short - of the people I know, those who LIKED DA:O were either turned off or, at best, meh on the ads like "The new S*%T" (and honestly many of my friends tried the game because *I* was hyping it to them for years before it was released, not because of any ads), and the very few people I know who LIKED the ads all didn't finish and didn't like DA:O.

Marketing failure.

Not really. All you've shown is that you hang out with people who are a lot like you, and they tend to have the same taste as you. That isn't really proof of anything other than whatever will dissapoint you will dissapoint your friends.

That being said, I took a look at the Violence trailer now (since I tend to keep on blackout, I never saw the original). The trailer isn't bad at the start but it just jumps off the wagon after a while (man, the title of it is very descriptive). Also, Marylin Manson sucks.

For the record, it has 1022 likes and 221 dislikes on youtube, so it seems that it this random internet sample did like it more often than not.

ETA:

To give some feedback

matejoto
1 day ago


Two things are clear: Bioware, and their games are made out of pure Win.
The other: Marlilyn Manson's song fits in perfectly to this
trailer!
matejoto
1 day ago

ShadowbaneOverload
1 day ago


You can have sex in this game?!
*buys*
Oh my GOD!
You can have sex in this game!!
ShadowbaneOverload 1 day
ago

rofanatics

1 day ago


Man I love Loghain's speech at the Landsmeet - sodding
charismatic!
rofanatics 1 day ago


MagisterJE

1 week ago


@worldsendmusic Thanks !!! I
already discovered it, but it´s good discovering that there are still people
willing to help in the world
MagisterJE 1 week ago


worldsendmusic
1 week ago


This was a sweet trailer. Made me buy the game. Mass Effect, Dragon Age,
Kotor, Bioware ALWAYS make epic games. Now I'm eagerly awaiting Dragon Age 2,
should be fricken awesome, as always.
worldsendmusic 1 week
ago

worldsendmusic
1 week ago


@MagisterJE New **** -Marilyn
Manson
worldsendmusic 1 week
ago

TheCrashAcid
1 week ago


@AllOfTheRestWillFlow
PLEASE tell me you're joking...this is an amazing trailer, I've seen worse
trailers for games blood gore death and sex, how could you not like it? =D or
was it because it was with Morrigan.

[/list]These people really like the trailer.

Meanwhile, with DA2's marketing, they have successfully turned me into someone who's badmouthing the game anytime it's brought up amongst friends and family - and as a result, there are plenty of "that sounds horrible, I'm probably not going to touch it."  Not everyone... there are a couple people who DIDN'T like DA:O whom I tell that they will probably LIKE DA2 now (I'm not a jerk to everyone at all... I like to help people find stuff they'll enjoy), but that's a very small percentage.

Okay, if you hate DA2, why are you still here? I just don't understand this. Why are you so invested in ragging on this game? Because you feel Bioware betrayed you? Just what could possibly be the point of this.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:29 .

[hexaligned]

Slayer299 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

ME 2's slogan was "Fight the Future."

Wasn't that slogan also from one of the X-files movies?

That flashed through my head too when I read it, I wasn't positive though.

[Vylan Antagonist]

Target Market said:

You can have sex in this game?!

*buys*

Oh my GOD!

You can have sex in this game!!

this is an amazing trailer, I've seen worse

trailers for games blood gore death and sex, how could you not like it? =D

Welp, target market found, I guess.

[-Semper-]

if it's the same support as for da:o the outcome will be like this: press a button, something awesome happens... ctd



btw it's lame how all the people at bioware keep talking about how stunning da2 is without proving their words.

[In Exile]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Welp, target market found, I guess.

It helped DA:O sell 3 million copies, so it obviously worked.

[Vylan Antagonist]

In Exile wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Welp, target market found, I guess.

It helped DA:O sell 3 million copies, so it obviously worked.

Premise: Dragon Age Origins Sold 3 million copies
Premise: Dragon Age Origins was marketed with Blood!Sex!Gore!
Conclusion: Blood! Sex! Gore! marketing sold 3 million copies.

Looks like a deductive fallacy to me, In Exile. That's kinda your apologist stock in trade though, so..

[Nerevar-as]

I just try to ignore BW marketing as much as I can. Didn´t like most from DA, not even Sacred Ashes as it was too over the top. ME2 was a mixed lot, the dev videos were pretty good, but if characters had been like in their teasers I would have left most behind in the SM. Something I noted is how the renegade/evil path was heavier in the adds, as if someone thought Jerkass = Badass, both for PC and party/squad.

[In Exile]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Welp, target market found, I guess.

It helped DA:O sell 3 million copies, so it obviously worked.

Premise: Dragon Age Origins Sold 3 million copies
Premise: Dragon Age Origins was marketed with Blood!Sex!Gore!
Conclusion: Blood! Sex! Gore! marketing sold 3 million copies.

Looks like a deductive fallacy to me, In Exile. That's kinda your apologist stock in trade though, so..

If I said that, maybe you'd have some point. But you don't, because as the bold comment shows, I said it helped.

So if you want an argument, it would be like so:

Premise: DA:O sold 3 million
Premise: The marketing seems to be well-received (supposing the youtube response generalizes)
Premise: If the marketing was well received, it contributed some non-zero total to the total sales of DA:O
Premise: If the marketing contributed some non-zero total to the sales of DA:O, the marketing was succesful.
Premise: If the marketing was succesful, it helped sell 3 million copies.

Conclusion: The marketing helped sell 3 million copies.

ETA:

If you want, to get the full claim, we can add another premise that says: "If the marketing was succesful, the marketing worked" to get semantic equivalence.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:50 .

[ErichHartmann]

-Semper- wrote...

if it's the same support as for da:o the outcome will be like this: press a button, something awesome happens... ctd

btw it's lame how all the people at bioware keep talking about how stunning da2 is without proving their words.

Same is true for people "ranting" against DAII without proving their words.

[Vylan Antagonist]

In Exile wrote...

[Premise: The marketing seems to be well-received (supposing the youtube response generalizes)

That's an absolutely terrible metric. Emphatically rejected.

Premise: If the marketing was well received, it contributed some non-zero total to the total sales of DA:O
Premise: If the marketing contributed some non-zero total to the sales of DA:O, the marketing was succesful.

That's an absurdly weak metric for 'success'. That's not how marketing is evaluated anywhere. If I budget 6 FTEs for 3 years and $100,000 for marketing, 'contributing some non-zero' total to the sales is not a success. So again, bad premise, bad conclusion. GIGO.

Premise: If the marketing was succesful, it helped sell 3 million copies.

Conclusion: The marketing helped sell 3 million copies.

No, still not an accurate summation, because if the non-zero total is 10, then it's still not really accurate to say that was an appreciable 'help' in sales of 3 million.

But as usual, you are positioning yourself as the stalwart white knight. If you really want to white knight "This is the new $H!T!", then no amount of reasoning is going to make a dent in your dedication to the cause.

[Vylan Antagonist]

ErichHartmann wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

if it's the same support as for da:o the outcome will be like this: press a button, something awesome happens... ctd

btw it's lame how all the people at bioware keep talking about how stunning da2 is without proving their words.

Same is true for people "ranting" against DAII without proving their words.

Not at all. Bioware is marketing their game. They are selling it. So far, they are doing so by talking up how awesome it is in terms of immediate gratification (You can be killing someone in literally 15 seconds of starting the game, every time you press a button something awesome happens, etc). Ever heard 'Show, don't Tell'?

The people 'ranting' against the game are expressing concerns about what both they've been told and what seems to be conspicuously absent (particularly gameplay footage 3 months from release). It's reactive, not demonstrative. It's silly to respond by saying 'Well, you guys who are being mean gotta prove it too!"

The thing about those ranting people is that they are all potential sales. In fact, they are probably among the easiest sales you are going to get. They are repeatedly coming to a forum dedicated to the game and taking their time to express their concerns about it. Heck, they care enough about it to have concerns. One way or another, they are probably going to end up buying the game and are just looking for some reassurance that they will be making a good decision by doing so.

[In Exile]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
But as usual, you are positioning yourself as the stalwart white knight. If you really want to white knight "This is the new $H!T!", then no amount of reasoning is going to make a dent in your dedication to the cause.

I am going to ask you to stop with the personal insults. It is certainly not worth the time to debate with you.

ETA:

As for the argument, I simply gave you an illustration of how you were wrong, i.e. how the claim was not a deductive fallacy, given your absolute out of the blue personal attack. You're certainly not interested any real argument on the effectiveness or marketing for DA:O. You may want to review what a deductive fallacy is, and how the truth of the premises is irrelevant to any such claim.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 novembre 2010 - 07:22 .

[Vylan Antagonist]

In Exile wrote...

I am going to ask you to stop with the personal insults.

Okay. I'll wait.

In Exile leapt to the marketing's defense with:

It helped DA:O sell 3 million copies, so it obviously worked.

That's a logical fallacy, regardless of whether or not I think you have a tendency to seem to feel obligated to defend Bioware in every thread. The fact that the game sold well does not intrinsically mean the marketing was the proximate cause. Period. Trying to use Youtube 'like' ratings as a justification for the campaign's success is just.. I don't even know how to categorize that. Humorous, I guess?

You may want to review what a deductive fallacy is, and how the truth of the premises is irrelevant to any such claim.

Ugh, pedantry. Fine, I speak it. While really your fallacy is more of a fallacy of false cause, it's still a deductive fallacy- That the marketing 'obviously worked' because DA:O sold well. That's not a logical conclusion from the mere fact that DA:O sold well.

Modifié par Vylan Antagonist, 27 novembre 2010 - 07:37 .

[Beaner28]

iShreav wrote...

I still want to see PC gameplay.

Anyone else worried that BioWare still refuses to show any PC gameplay yet we're only 3 1/2 months from launch?

[Atakuma]

Beaner28 wrote...

iShreav wrote...

I still want to see PC gameplay.

Anyone else worried that BioWare still refuses to show any PC gameplay yet we're only 3 1/2 months from launch?

They haven't officially shown any gameplay yet.

[Beaner28]

Atakuma wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

iShreav wrote...

I still want to see PC gameplay.

Anyone else worried that BioWare still refuses to show any PC gameplay yet we're only 3 1/2 months from launch?

They haven't officially shown any gameplay yet.

There was the Rise to Power trailer but I'm gasping for straws here....

[Atakuma]

Beaner28 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

iShreav wrote...

I still want to see PC gameplay.

Anyone else worried that BioWare still refuses to show any PC gameplay yet we're only 3 1/2 months from launch?

They haven't officially shown any gameplay yet.

There was the Rise to Power trailer but I'm gasping for straws here....

Yeah that was nothing more than a collection of cinematics really.

[Beaner28]

The only way to defend BioWare's refusal to show any gameplay footage is to just bank on their reputation as a reason to know that the game will not suck. However, seeing as how each Dragon Age DLC that was released got progressively worse I think there is legitimate cause for concern that BioWare is slippin gin the quality department and DA 2 is going to end up being some half-assed rush job to milk an established franchise.

Dragon EAge, unfortunately.

Modifié par Beaner28, 27 novembre 2010 - 07:52 .

[Dave of Canada]

Beaner28 wrote...

iShreav wrote...

I still want to see PC gameplay.

Anyone else worried that BioWare still refuses to show any PC gameplay yet we're only 3 1/2 months from launch?

I don't understand the complaints about not seeing PC gameplay.

We haven't seen official gameplay.
At all.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 novembre 2010 - 07:49 .

[Vylan Antagonist]

Have we seen any leaked gameplay that wasn't from the 'unreliable' narrative sequence where Hawke has all of his abilities and is able to annhilate derpspawn with one hit?

[Beaner28]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

if it's the same support as for da:o the outcome will be like this: press a button, something awesome happens... ctd

btw it's lame how all the people at bioware keep talking about how stunning da2 is without proving their words.

Same is true for people "ranting" against DAII without proving their words.

Not at all. Bioware is marketing their game. They are selling it. So far, they are doing so by talking up how awesome it is in terms of immediate gratification (You can be killing someone in literally 15 seconds of starting the game, every time you press a button something awesome happens, etc). Ever heard 'Show, don't Tell'?

The people 'ranting' against the game are expressing concerns about what both they've been told and what seems to be conspicuously absent (particularly gameplay footage 3 months from release). It's reactive, not demonstrative. It's silly to respond by saying 'Well, you guys who are being mean gotta prove it too!"

The thing about those ranting people is that they are all potential sales. In fact, they are probably among the easiest sales you are going to get. They are repeatedly coming to a forum dedicated to the game and taking their time to express their concerns about it. Heck, they care enough about it to have concerns. One way or another, they are probably going to end up buying the game and are just looking for some reassurance that they will be making a good decision by doing so.

Completely disagree. Anticipation is not always a guaranteed purchase, for me, at least. I spent months anticipating the Force Unleashed 2. It came out with mediocre reviews and a demo I was largely unimpressed with. Did I buy it? Nope.

If BioWare is counting on my sale because I liked Origins they have another thing coming. Not saying there aren't those idiots but please.

Modifié par Beaner28, 27 novembre 2010 - 07:50 .

[Leonia]

Guess I am just one of those idiots then.

[Beaner28]

leonia42 wrote...

Guess I am just one of those idiots then.

It's your money.

[Leonia]

Beaner28 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Guess I am just one of those idiots then.

It's your money.

Yep. Thanks for making me feel warm and fuzzy.