280 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Have we seen any leaked gameplay that wasn't from the 'unreliable' narrative sequence where Hawke has all of his abilities and is able to annhilate derpspawn with one hit?

Yes, though the video was removed. Guy essentially got his party massacred.

[Nerevar-as]

Rise to Power included footage that looked game engine, and there´s the leaked demo which is always said to be not representative of the game, but was used as a demo anyway... I´m starting to think the framed narrative is so they had over the top sequences for marketing the game as a GoW. I´m afraid the problem to get to that group of players has more to do with attention span about the story than to gameplay. And if story takes a hit, I´m definetely out.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 27 novembre 2010 - 07:57 .

[Beaner28]

scyphozoa wrote...

I have no shame in saying I will gladly buy any game Bioware produces. Bioware has an unprecedented catalog of quality games. I don't care about commercial or critical reviews, I have actually played the entire catalog and know first hand that Bioware is committed of creating excellent games I enjoy playing.

In fact, the more Bioware experiments and innovates, the more I am willing to support them. This doesn't mean that I am blind to faults Bioware makes, but it does mean I am confident enough in Bioware to support them when they make changes or innovations I might not necessarily agree with. Even if I do not support the individual changes, I expect Bioware games to meet a standard of excellence that Bioware has set for itself.

Clearly an undercover dev.

Modifié par Beaner28, 27 novembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[slimgrin]

scyphozoa wrote...

I have no shame in saying I will gladly buy any game Bioware produces. Bioware has an unprecedented catalog of quality games. I don't care about commercial or critical reviews, I have actually played the entire catalog and know first hand that Bioware is committed to creating excellent games I enjoy playing.

In fact, the more Bioware experiments and innovates, the more I am willing to support them. This doesn't mean that I am blind to faults Bioware makes, but it does mean I am confident enough in Bioware to support them when they make changes or innovations I might not necessarily agree with. Even if I do not support the individual changes, I expect Bioware games to meet a standard of excellence that Bioware has set for itself.

Thanks for sharing that with us Dr. Muzyka.

[Leonia]

Ya'll are quite the bunch of cynics. There's lots of Bioware loyalists out there that will buy any game with the Bioware logo on it. It's not that surprising is it?

[Vylan Antagonist]

Beaner28 wrote...
If BioWare is counting on my sale because I liked Origins they have another thing coming. Not saying there aren't those idiots but please.

I'm not saying my purchase is guaranteed, just that I'm an easier potential sale than the market their advertising seems to be targeting; I loved the original game, I bought BG on release day, I have a reasonably large amount of disposable income, and I care enough to follow the game in multiple forums (even if one seems to mostly be dedicating to watching the potential trainwreck).

Really, I'm just looking for reassurance that this is a fun and worthwhile sequel. It doesn't even have to be the sequel I would have expected. If they really execute on a Marvel Ultimate Alliance kinda game and make it appealing, that'd be fine too, I guess. I figure a lot of the other people who seem concerned are pretty much in the same boat- We have enough of an emotional stake in the game to come here and wring our hands over where it's going.

While the marketing is obviously not directed at me and actually actively undermines my interest in the game, the same was true for DA:O and it still turned out splendidly in the end, so I weigh it very little in the broader scheme of things.

What's alarming me are other things than marketing slogans and catchphrases repeated ad nauseum.

And yes, my sale is Bioware's to lose, even if that makes me an idiot. But they can lose it. Unfortunately.

[Vylan Antagonist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Have we seen any leaked gameplay that wasn't from the 'unreliable' narrative sequence where Hawke has all of his abilities and is able to annhilate derpspawn with one hit?

Yes, though the video was removed. Guy essentially got his party massacred.

Now that sounds promising. I wish I'd seen it.

[slimgrin]

scyphozoa wrote...

So its either an idiot or an employee. Yeah you guys are very reasonable.

I was just teasin' because your post sounded so...orderly. I mostly agree with you. But I don't buy any game till I've seen gemplay at the very least (lots of it) and reviews.

Modifié par slimgrin, 27 novembre 2010 - 08:12 .

[MerinTB]

In Exile wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Long rant short - of the people I know, those who LIKED DA:O were either turned off or, at best, meh on the ads like "The new S*%T" (and honestly many of my friends tried the game because *I* was hyping it to them for years before it was released, not because of any ads), and the very few people I know who LIKED the ads all didn't finish and didn't like DA:O.

Marketing failure.

Not really. All you've shown is that you hang out with people who are a lot like you, and they tend to have the same taste as you. That isn't really proof of anything other than whatever will dissapoint you will dissapoint your friends.

You either didn't read what I wrote or you suffer from really bad reading comprehension...

I wasn't sampling "my friends" - I was sampling people I know, which happens to include friends..  Did you read what I posted, especially where I went out of my way to point out the differences between the guys I do my podcast with?

Most of my "friends" never played nor want to play DA:O, despite my hyping it up before and after release.  Why?  Different interests...
I have many friends who don't play video games nor table top RPGs.

But of those who do play games I listed:

my nephew, who DIDN'T play DA:O, because despite liking the marketing for it found out that it wasn't his type of game.  He likes God of War, he likes FPS games, he liked Avatar the movie, he's a huge sports star at his school, he's very religious, he likes comedy movies like all the "Epic, Superhero, Scary" Movie variety... he's NOTHING like me.  He used to play Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, but never touched a game like D&D.  There's no similarity between some genetic code.

The mid-20's newspaper editor is a Mac enthusiast.  You couldn't pay me to use one.  He's a console gamer, primarly, and the only computer games he's played are WoW and Plants vs. Zombies (you've got me there, I like PvZ too.  We're exactly alike!)  He likes Scrabble, loves Facebook, is a huge Star Wars nerd... Our similar tastes are mostly limited to Futurama, 30 Rock, 4E D&D, and Joss Whedon stuff.

I could go on, but as someone in his mid-30's I can assure you  that I do not hang around with sycophants, and when I start talking about customers at my comic store or family members I promise you that our tastes are pretty different.

So, despite myself saying that my sample size was relatively small (a few dozen people) and that my evidence was unscientific  - at best it's anecdotal - you decide to attack it as being "just me and my like-minded friends."

Mister, with all due respect, don't make assumptions about things you know nothing about.

In Exile wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Meanwhile, with DA2's marketing, they have successfully turned me into someone who's badmouthing the game anytime it's brought up amongst friends and family - and as a result, there are plenty of "that sounds horrible, I'm probably not going to touch it."  Not everyone... there are a couple people who DIDN'T like DA:O whom I tell that they will probably LIKE DA2 now (I'm not a jerk to everyone at all... I like to help people find stuff they'll enjoy), but that's a very small percentage.

Okay, if you hate DA2, why are you still here? I just don't understand this. Why are you so invested in ragging on this game? Because you feel Bioware betrayed you? Just what could possibly be the point of this.

I didn't say I hate DA2 - I can't say that, I've not played it.

I think I understand precisely what you don't understand this - you keep making baseless assumptions and posit conjecture as fact about me, my associations, my motivations and my tastes.

I dunno how invested spending ten minutes here, twenty minutes the next day, writing a few posts on a forum is.  If less than an hour of time per day is a major investment of time for you I feel for the fullness of your schedule.  It's also much easier to make forum posts while watching my daughter than it is to do most anything else that requires more concentration.  Writing comes remarkably easy for me - so while this may look like it takes a lot of thought and effort on my part to write (maybe it doesn't, maybe you think I'm rattling off rants off the top of my head incoherently in seconds, I don't mean to presume WHAT you think of what I'm doing) - it's really not a significant portion of my time in the least.

I'm pretty sure I'm "ragging on" the marketing for this game, not the game itself, in this thread.  You see the difference, right?

I don't feel betrayed by BioWare.  I've never used the word "betrayed" nor do I feel that the game company owes me anything (save maybe a tiny, tiny amount of gratitude for buying all their games and at least the same modicrum of respect they should show every person posting on here all things being equal), and right about here I'd normally suggest that you are setting up a strawman ... but I honestly believe your earlier statment that you just don't understand me.  It is most likely you are conflating what I'm saying to mix with what you perceive anyone who criticizes anything about DA2 as all having the same motivations and beliefs and feelings on the game, which seriously is a failing on your part.  Despite the multiple attempts by multiple people to paint everyone who voices even the smallest concern or dislike of news about DA2 as all being "doomsayers" or "whiners", it's actually a fairly diverse and widely eclectic group of people who you can often find disagreeing with each other over many, many, many things.

The point of me posting is that a thread was created about this short video interview about DA2.  I wrote a response about what I perceived as a "pot calling the kettle black" post... and then I wrote a post later about my reactions to the video.  And finally (before this post responding to you replying to my last post) I wrote a post following up on something someone else said that I was agreeing with and elaborating on his point.  That was my point.  Pretty sure it's the point of this thread, discussing that trailer and the marketing concepts behind what was said in it?  Or am I breaking In Exile's rules of proper forum ettiquette now?

[MerinTB]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
Ugh, pedantry. Fine, I speak it. While really your fallacy is more of a fallacy of false cause, it's still a deductive fallacy- That the marketing 'obviously worked' because DA:O sold well. That's not a logical conclusion from the mere fact that DA:O sold well.

It's probably simpler just to refer to it as the correlation equals causation fallacy.

[Beaner28]

scyphozoa wrote...

So its either an idiot or an employee. Yeah you guys are very reasonable.

It was such a brown nosing post, brah.

[MerinTB]

leonia42 wrote...

Ya'll are quite the bunch of cynics. There's lots of Bioware loyalists out there that will buy any game with the Bioware logo on it. It's not that surprising is it?

No, I was one of those for a long time despite hittings games like NWN and Jade Empire that, in retrospect, I probably wouldn't have bought otherwise.

I'm still hoping that I love this game and I can come back on the forums and call myself Chicken Little.  Seriously, I'd rather be wrong and embarrassed and still have a great game from BioWare than right and justified in my fears and looking at a bad game from BioWare.

I'm not at the cynical disliking of BioWare as a company yet.  Nowhere near.  Very much looking forward to ME3, and interested in what TOR will be like (despite really disliking MMO's.)

[Brockololly]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
Now that sounds promising. I wish I'd seen it.

Eh, it wasn't a very good video in the sense that while the guy got his party slaughtered, he was able to still win out by just kiting and ridiculously twirling the mage staff like a cheerleader twirling some baton.

[Dave of Canada]

Brockololly wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...
Now that sounds promising. I wish I'd seen it.

Eh, it wasn't a very good video in the sense that while the guy got his party slaughtered, he was able to still win out by just kiting and ridiculously twirling the mage staff like a cheerleader twirling some baton.

You're fully capable of kiting in Origins, though. I don't see how that's a bad point.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 novembre 2010 - 08:25 .

[fchopin]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Have we seen any leaked gameplay that wasn't from the 'unreliable' narrative sequence where Hawke has all of his abilities and is able to annhilate derpspawn with one hit?

Yes, though the video was removed. Guy essentially got his party massacred.

Now that sounds promising. I wish I'd seen it.

Believe me, you did not want to see the massacre game trailer.

[Sharn01]

We need to release another video but we have nothing new to say.

What if we just say the exact same thing over again, but this time have an attractive young woman say it?

That will work.

[fchopin]

Sharn01 wrote...

We need to release another video but we have nothing new to say.

What if we just say the exact same thing over again, but this time have an attractive young woman say it?

That will work.

The girl was very attractive but it changed nothing for me.

[In Exile]

MerinTB wrote...
You either didn't read what I wrote or you suffer from really bad reading comprehension...

I didn't read your full post. I apologize for that.

So, despite myself saying that my sample size was relatively small (a few dozen people) and that my evidence was unscientific  - at best it's anecdotal - you decide to attack it as being "just me and my like-minded friends."

Again, my apology. I went right to this line: "Long rant short" and I assumed it would give an accurate summary of everything you said. You then said "of the people I know" and in parenthesis, "and honestly many of my friends" all of which I mistakenly took to refer to the same group of people.

So like I said: I certainly didn't mean to misread you. Like you, I tend to do this while doing other thing (generally working on papers) and so sometimes just post a reaction versus some deeply reasoned and well-construted essay, which is apparently the expectation some have.

I didn't say I hate DA2 - I can't say that, I've not played it.

I think I understand precisely what you don't understand this - you keep making baseless assumptions and posit conjecture as fact about me, my associations, my motivations and my tastes.

Here is what you said:

"they have successfully turned me into someone who's badmouthing the game
anytime it's brought up amongst friends and family"

This, to me, seems like something pretty excesive to do. Moreover, it seems like you dislike the game tremendously. But it might just be me - badmouthing a product is something I would only do in the most extreme sort of cases.

I dunno how invested spending ten minutes here, twenty minutes the next day, writing a few posts on a forum is.  If less than an hour of time per day is a major investment of time for you I feel for the fullness of your schedule.  It's also much easier to make forum posts while watching my daughter than it is to do most anything else that requires more concentration.  Writing comes remarkably easy for me - so while this may look like it takes a lot of thought and effort on my part to write (maybe it doesn't, maybe you think I'm rattling off rants off the top of my head incoherently in seconds, I don't mean to presume WHAT you think of what I'm doing) - it's really not a significant portion of my time in the least.

But if you dislike the direction of the game, are actively badmouthing it to you friends, etc. then why are you still following the game? This is what I don't understand. It seems like you've made up your mind it will not be the sort of game you like (otherwise why would you badmouth it?) and so I can't understand the appeal of any time spent on the DA2 forum, when you could spend it on some other forum talking about a game you do like.

Of the time that I spend on the internet, I only do it on websites that include features I like. Not to say that it isn't good to have dissenting opinions on features (nothing worse than an echo chamber), but I just don't see the payoff.

I'm pretty sure I'm "ragging on" the marketing for this game, not the game itself, in this thread.  You see the difference, right?

You said you would not only not reccomend the game to your friends and family, but that you are actively discouraging them from purchasing it (i.e badmouthing). That to me seems to be precisely about the game.

I don't feel betrayed by BioWare. Despite the multiple attempts by multiple people to paint everyone who voices even the smallest concern or dislike of news about DA2 as all being "doomsayers" or "whiners", it's actually a fairly diverse and widely eclectic group of people who you can often find disagreeing with each other over many, many, many things.

I brought it up because is a common reaction to the direction of DA2, which you are criticizing - that DA:O was a game for a certain group of people, and the majority of those people (or of the features designed for those people) are being pushed aside.

Since your post was focused on how led down you were by the direction of DA2 (including features of the game, which you have decried in other threads) I asked you if your dislike for the game comes from a sense that Bioware ought to have designed a game like DA2. Betrayed just seemed to best capture that. I apologize if it was inflammatory.

Pretty sure it's the point of this thread, discussing that trailer and the marketing concepts behind what was said in it?  Or am I breaking In Exile's rules of proper forum ettiquette now?

I didn't object to that; just to your claim that your self-selected sample reflects on the broad reception of the marketing. I was wrong to say that you were refering only to your friends - but even with that, the fact you work with these people in similar areas (i.e. on your podcast, in your comic book store) might mean you have the same tastes when it comes to marketing.

I object to any claim that people make re: their capacity to predict the taste, or target, etc. of any particular game.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 novembre 2010 - 09:06 .

[Sharn01]

fchopin wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

We need to release another video but we have nothing new to say.

What if we just say the exact same thing over again, but this time have an attractive young woman say it?

That will work.

The girl was very attractive but it changed nothing for me.

It was a sarcasm attempt.

[fchopin]

Sharn01 wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

We need to release another video but we have nothing new to say.

What if we just say the exact same thing over again, but this time have an attractive young woman say it?

That will work.

The girl was very attractive but it changed nothing for me.

It was a sarcasm attempt.

sorry about that, i am slow today.

[Sharn01]

I am not going to take the time to quote all the posts but there is a lot more negative feedback for DA2 then there was for ME2. ME2 had negative comments but not to the extent that is on these forums, and I think ME2 is to blame for a lot of it. ME2 was a success but it alienated as many old fans as new ones it brought to the game, and I think a lot of people here fear that history is repeating itself.

[Vylan Antagonist]

fchopin wrote...

Believe me, you did not want to see the massacre game trailer.

Maybe it wouldn't have done any good for my confidence in the game's current state, but I'm a curious cat. Seeing DA:O's actual PC gameplay in the nice long Giantbomb Hands On unequivocally sold me on the game. It's the gameplay that'll make or break the game for me in the sequel as well.

We are about three and a half months from release. PAX was 4 months before the release of ME2 and we had the opportunity to see ample play footage 'officially' by that point. It's kind of unsettling that all I've seen of DA2 has been the exaggerated combat and even it was illicitly taken.

In conjunction with a special signature edition that seems to manufacture even more incentive to buy before seeing the game in action, it just doesn't seem to communicate much confidence in the game. Sure, we are repeatedly being told how awesome it is and how immediately it delivers the kickass with each press of a button, but why are we being told and not shown?

[fchopin]

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Believe me, you did not want to see the massacre game trailer.

Maybe it wouldn't have done any good for my confidence in the game's current state, but I'm a curious cat. Seeing DA:O's actual PC gameplay in the nice long Giantbomb Hands On unequivocally sold me on the game. It's the gameplay that'll make or break the game for me in the sequel as well.

We are about three and a half months from release. PAX was 4 months before the release of ME2 and we had the opportunity to see ample play footage 'officially' by that point. It's kind of unsettling that all I've seen of DA2 has been the exaggerated combat and even it was illicitly taken.

In conjunction with a special signature edition that seems to manufacture even more incentive to buy before seeing the game in action, it just doesn't seem to communicate much confidence in the game. Sure, we are repeatedly being told how awesome it is and how immediately it delivers the kickass with each press of a button, but why are we being told and not shown?

I think the reason they haven't shown a game trailer is because the combat and graphics are not up to standard yet so they would like to improve them before showing to us.
 
I will not say what i thought on the game trailer again as i have already upset many people here.