13 réponses à ce sujet

[Amethystium]

For solo purposes or perhaps only a cleric additionally, I'm wondering if F/M/T is a powerful class and able to solo the game? It seems versatile at least

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Yes, pretty powerful, once you get a couple of levels under your belt to make use of your various classes.

If you are going to solo, I'd suggest removing the XP cap (and installing triple class HLAs), so you can use Dragon's Breath etc as well. (of course, that's going to make the build vastly OP)

[saros_shadow_follower]

Even with the xp cap active, your F/M/T should have NO trouble soloing the game. Once you hit mage level 12, almost everything is a walkthrough.

[Czacki]

Every class can solo this game, it's not hard - it's say it's very easy, actually.

It was especially fun with a spell-immune monk - they could literally kiss my butt in SoA where the only problems are mages.

Inquisitor was also fun - no matter how powerful the mages were, they would always end up without any protections after a second thanks to double-powered 0-cast time dispel magic.

As for F/M/T, I'm not a great fan of it. It takes too long to develop, too long to reach higher spell levels possible - most of the time you will be bored out of your mind waiting for ultra-rare level ups... removing the limit via mod is like setting the levels to 100/100/100 - it breaks the intended progression and can be considered cheating.

I think dual classes are vastly superior to multi-classed characters myself, so I'd suggest - if you don't mind cheesy characters - a Kensai/Thief or Kensai/Mage. Maybe even both, if you don't mind making a custom team  (multiplayer then import)

[Sparky The Barbarian]

I waltzed through a duet (solo plus one) with a F/M/T and Jaheira.

It got a little boring in places, especially after the HLA's kicked in



Don't take an F/M.T if you plan on having more than two in your party as it takes forever to level up.



Save those 9th level scrolls, with the XP cap you won't be able to memorize them.

[Valamyr]

Without the XP cap, F/M/T is the most powerful build in the game, IMO.



If you want absolute power at the expense of a little modding, you can also Kit it into an Assassin for super-backstabs.and possibly use the Semi-Multi mod to give it cleric spells too

[mad cat from hell]

O yes. fighter/ mage types are really what you like if you intend to wage a nuclear holocost on your enemies. Start the battle with some immunity: evocation, prot from magic weapons trigger or contingency so noone is going to interrupt your time stop. Vecna: timestop + improved alacrity + full buff + globe, a couple of webs, spheres of chaos a couple of greater malisons(so that magically resistant are affected too), wails, prismatic sprays, symbol stuns or just plain ADHW. Your enemies are going to start crying now only to find out that after time stop ends the remaining troops are going to face black blade of disaster with -14 thac0 and 8-10 apr dealing arlound 40 damage per non crit, draining 4 levels and desintegrating a victim with +4 save bonus vs spells. Thats awesome when the battle is over there are gibs and parts of the enemies all over the place who were desintegrated/ wailed/ plain meleed. Save or die spam followed by BBoD rampage on those who remains is my favourite part of the game. You ve got to have a ton of fun during those watcher's keep demonic/fell encounters.

I got to say, thief does not suit this play style well because thief is either uber cheesy just insta killing anything with traps or he is entirely not used in combat like when you do save or die spam followed by melee. Kensai mage ftw! earlier mage spells (much) plus less temptation to trap the whole floor of the dungeon. I usually take *** longswords for the answerer particularly (lowers enemy magic resistance), *** katanas (i still find that when im not using black blade, celestial fury is the weapon of choice often), *** two weapon fighting and ** staves just to use staff of the magi for dispelling purposes(30 lvl dispel magic on hit wipes enemy buffs if there is no prot from magic weapons). Your ac is bad tho: you can hope to get only around -15 ac with tenser's transformation.

Or you can take F/M/C and unload 2 spellbooks on your enemies followed by thac0 buffs of cleric ( and they dont need you to forget about casting like tensers do) and melee. Idk if its practical tho, because you wont be getting lvl 9 spells for a looong loong time unlike kensai->mage which can reactivate his fighter class rly simple in the very beginning with the help of a couple of basic quests and jan jansen which gives you enough scrolls to gain the needed levels in mage class over fighter. After that, you can get 28+ lvl in mage class even before going to suldanasselar.

Modifié par mad cat from hell, 24 janvier 2011 - 08:07 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Valamyr wrote...
If you want absolute power at the expense of a little modding, you can also Kit it into an Assassin for super-backstabs.

I'm pretty sure my Kensei/Thief/Mage will do better backstabs than your Fighter/Assassin/Mage.
(of course, that build won't beat a Cleric/Assassin's 600 point backstab potential, but at least it doesn't require as much luck to make about 560 points)

mad cat from hell wrote...
Start the battle with some immunity: evocation, prot from magic weapons trigger or contingency so noone is going to interrupt your time stop. Vecna: timestop + improved alacrity + full buff + globe

If you used only Improved Alacrity, without Time Stop, there'd be very little chance for the enemy to disrupt you, so depending on the enemy you could probably lay off on the buffing before the buffing. Depending on what you do next (and the enemy of course), you could put off the actual buffing as well. (yes, Vecna, AoP and IA is that powerful)

[...] or just plain ADHW.

If I were you, I'd use exclusively spells that would take me no time to cast (anything with a Casting Time of 5 or less), and no level 9 save or die. If you have a level 9 spell slot left, use Dragon's Breath, as it has basically the same effect, but leaves an impression on everybody.

Thats awesome when the battle is over there are gibs and parts of the enemies

And for every gib you have to say farewell to another part of the loot. Gore destroys items. That led me personally to the very painful decision that it's not worth it.

I got to say, thief does not suit this play style well because thief is either uber cheesy just insta killing anything with traps or he is entirely not used in combat like when you do save or die spam followed by melee.

Different playstyles and all, but there are some advantages to the thief even in melee, for instance UAI, backstabbing (and Assassination), and Detect Illusions.

longswords for the answerer particularly (lowers enemy magic resistance),

I've never quite understood the charme of this weapon, but maybe you can explain this to me.
If you are able to hit the enemy - with a kensai no less - isn't he pretty much dead meat anyway? Wouldn't it be less time-consuming to either use your biggest weapon (or a dispelling weapon to remove his Stoneskins before doing so) or a Spell Trigger with 3xLower Resistance (or, considering you started the battle with Improved Alacrity, simply making use of the fact that Lower Resistance has a casting time of less than 6)?

you can hope to get only around -15 ac with tenser's transformation.

And I'm not that much of a Tenser's fan either, closing my ability to rebuff and giving me barely anything in return, but I guess that's mostly taste.

Edit: Sorry, if I come across as agressive and arrogant. I simply like this kind of discussion...

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:21 .

[mad cat from hell]

Wail of the banshee gives you bonus style points and it bypasses magic protections entirely (only death ward and spell immunity necro helps) and dragon's breath/comet is honestly kings of boring (lvl 9 fireball, anyone?) plus demons are often immune to fire.  Last time i played, 2 wails killed 2/6 ppl from that pre demogorgon party with marilith and beholder. 2 lvl 9 spells for 2 dead? Considering, you are 1v6 hell yeah.

Casting time of less than 6 is pretty lots of spells but i usually find them on the levels where my buffing spells are situated. Usually, i pack a couple of webs, maybe 1 or 2 skull,secret word, spell thrust to remove all spell immunities at the cost of lvl 3 slot, a couple of malisons, spell immunities (4), a couple of imp haste, prot magic weapons, grease, croma orb or 2. So, lvl 1-6 are usually packed with buffs and few fast cast spells. lvl 7 i take chaos spheres which prove to be very effective for the cost of slots when there are lots of enemies(cast once, provides strong effects on everyone around you for 10 rounds without harm for you. incl desintegrate, polymorph, confusion, hold, sleed effects) and is generally fun.

I like prismatic spray very much: you dont need to debuff a mage to get him with it since its aoe spell. Also, i like prismatic spray castings every round between melee action for additional petrified/ struck dead enemies. And its also a lich killer. Power word stun and blind is also awesome.  

Black blade is the king of awesome for me. Its incredible damage - wise (with standart weapons i usually get 17-29 dmg per hit, with bbod dmg is usually 30-40 plus it heals plus it drains plus it doesnt ruin your imp haste like blackrazor does. Its very satisfying to desintegrate a cromatic demon with it since he is otherwise immune to weapon damage. Or disint a dragon with 500+hp and heal spells. Regardless of hp/resistances there are save or dies in dnd and thats where this system shines for me so i play accordingly.

I could tell you stories how i pvped in nwn using sorc and cleric spammer builds with miserable dcs but great survivability and taking advantage of "roll 1 fod, flesh to stone, implo, destruction, wail = dead if you are unable to keep buffs regardless of hp/dmg reduc/ heal spells". Nothing is more funny then dueling a cleric and killling him with flesh to stone roll 1 because you know what death ward doesnt help vs petrification even tho my casterlvl is lacking any chance to dispel him, breach lets me remove his spell resistance and he is done statistically. Have around 13 fts castings? thats about 50% chance he d roll 1 at least once. Unlucky? You re a monk and can run away to rest andrepeat. Regardless of the fact that his healing spell equals 3 or 4 your damaging spells. The downside is that this tactic obviously makes ppl **** bricks. "What? my fort is 54!!!!11. (dc is 27)" And i tell you what: dnd is really beautiful because of save or dies for me.

The answered helps me toss those power words, prisma sprays etc in between the melee volleys of fire. Convenient with dragons demons etc.

This playstyle is just aestethically attractive to me and if i was a modder, i would do my own mod to discourage using lvl 9 fireballs but instead use more save or dies to balance things out and make the game less diablo-like.

And you can always give up desintegration/fts effects for the battle you know will contain important loot.

My other favourite tactic with sorc is to timestop imp alacrity spam lower resistances grt malison and save or dies like fts/fod/polymorph etc. when the time stop ends you can see a volley of save or dies like your whole spellbook land on a dragon who has then approximately 0.01% chance to live. Thats just cool.

My point ; save or die spells dont respect hp/ dmg resistances/ac and thats their niche. The problem is that most of the time in bg 2 you are better off just bashing stuff til it dies. But thats a game design issue. Check it out: demogorgon has 6 save vs spells. if it wasnt his immunities, he would be as easy to kill with sve or dies as some golem with spell resistance.

Modifié par mad cat from hell, 24 janvier 2011 - 10:34 .

[Sparky The Barbarian]

I've run an FMT with duet with Jaheira and Aerie (once each).



It's a bit of a challenge early on, but gets boring later. The F/M/T is extremely powerful at higher levels. The only drawback is that you can't cast level 9 spells with the XP cap on for TOB.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Okay, mcfh, if you like save or else spells so much, you should go for them. Just keep in mind that for somebody with perfect saves in BG2 even a roll of 1 will not be a failed save, so your NWN example with Fort 54 and a DC of 27 would have killed you in this engine.

[mad cat from hell]

Yea i know there is no autofail. At least when you have party of 6 people you never ever will have all saves negative numbers for all characters unbuffed so you actually are going to fail saves sooner or later if dispelled or unbuffed. Even for solo non - short race you are often having positive saves without buffs. i like the fact saves are often failed in bg2. Too bad, 90% of saves are save vs spell tho.

Modifié par mad cat from hell, 25 janvier 2011 - 09:48 .

[HoonDing]

Wait... does Wail of the banshee pass magic resistance? I've never been a fan of this spell because Dragon's breath and Summon planetar always seemed that much better.

In other games like NWN2 there simply is not much better to take.

Modifié par virumor, 25 janvier 2011 - 10:14 .

[mad cat from hell]

No it doesnt pass but the amount of checks with 1 cast when you are against a lot of enemies can make up for it. It passes spell turning spell trap spell deflection etc.

Modifié par mad cat from hell, 25 janvier 2011 - 09:45 .