10 réponses à ce sujet

[Metaneira]

I understand that, in game, darker skin tones in humans are assumed to be of Rivaini descent.  Which is fine; it's nice to have an in-game explanation for Duncan's coloring, for example.  Yet one of the problems I encountered when starting my first human noble character in DAO was that I started with a black woman only to discover my parents and brother were these pasty white people.  It's clear that I'm not adopted -- I'm the last of the Cousland line -- so I ended up re-rolling a white character to make the opening story more realistic.  It was disappointing that I was given the option to play a black character (something I've done ever since Ultima first allowed it), but the story was so compelling that I adjusted my character to fit the narrative.  Even if I didn't, however, my family is only featured in the very beginning and end of my tale, so I could have ignored it for the majority of my gameplay experience.

However, from what I know about Dragon Age 2, it looks like Hawke's siblings will play a prominent role in the story -- even as player companions.  I'm wondering why this was.  Perhaps the decision to limit the race of the player character to white a conscious decision, based on player data.  Bioware collected data on Mass Effect 2 that shows only 18% of players pick a femShep.  Maybe it was a simple oversight.  I would love to play a black Hawke, just as I made a black Revan and black Shepard, but my desire for a cohesive narrative will likely win out.  Even if I tried to roleplay that Hawke's parents adopted a stray Rivani child, there would likely be conflicting dialogue from Bethany or Carver that suggests a biological relationship.  It would heavily detract rom the immersive experience I've come to esteem in Bioware RPGs.

Bioware has had such a strong track record of providing traditionally marginalized groups of gamers a way to participate in a fantasy world that reflects who they are in real life.  It saddens me that Dragon Age 2 will limit that for people who want their player character to fit in with the universe seamlessly.

I understand that this can be a contentious issue, and I hope that the forum-dwellers here can approach it with respect and maturity. 

[John Epler]

The system they used to avoid the uncomfortable 'so our milkman was Rivaini' situation that arose in the Human Noble origin of DA:O is actually pretty robust. I've seen it affect all sorts of things in addition to just skin colour.

[David Gaider]

Xewaka wrote...
Does it affect the level of herp-derpness of Carver?

"Herp-derpness"?

Is that meant to imply that the one facial expression you've seen of the character so far must mean he's mentally handicapped in some fashion?

[David Gaider]

Nerivant wrote...
Yes.

Now you're getting us.

I see.

Really that's about as accurate an assessment as assuming your average poster is a moron because they happen to express an idiotic opinion in a single post-- but I guess it'll happen nevertheless.

[David Gaider]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Lots of people "look dumb" when images are taken of them with a fixed, incredulous expression. Hence the term "dumbfounded."

Indeed. Carver is horrified in that shot-- not exactly the most flattering expression to capture someone in.

Of course, it wasn't meant to be the poster for him, either. Like with Varric, eventually everyone will see that he looks quite normal.

[David Gaider]

KLUME777 wrote...
@Bioware

So why did you not have this system in DAO? (The skin-changing-color-for-family-members-according-to-Hawke One)

Surely at least one of the testers noticed this problem? And it is'nt really a thing where you "didn't have time for" since you'd be segragrating 1/3(?) of the audience in a pretty big problem.

I can imagine it must have been quite a turn off since its glaringly present in the very first scene. You may have lost Customers. How can you ignore that?

You mention the "didn't have time for" like it's a minor thing, something we could have overcome if we'd just thought about how "unfair" it would be?

We had to cut a lot of things (as we always do late in development, if they're things we're simply not going to be able to do properly). And this is not "segregation". You could, after all, play a character of whatever appearance you wished. Before you use a word like that, you might want to try understanding it first.

[David Gaider]

Evidently the addition of one feature means the loss of the lack of that feature for those that required that lack to... whatever. I don't get it, but I don't have to. In this case, the number of people that would rather play with a family that mirrors their character appearance choices undoubtedly far, far exceeds those that want to leave their options open for the sake of leaving their options open.



We're not installing a toggle. Period, the end.

[David Gaider]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I want it to be clear though, that to give them that option the other option is begin removed. We're not actually gaining anything. We're still being given one system that will either satisfy us or not.

This isn't an improvement; this is a lateral move. This is demonstrably a lateral move.

Yes, we are no longer allowing the option for you to play something other than the biological child of your parents-- an option that wouldn't have been supported by the story, anyhow.

As far as a "lateral move" goes, that's only for people who were really itching to use that option-- who absolutely had to play as adopted/illegitimate characters in order to satisfy whatever mental construction they put together in their head regarding their character (supported by the game or not). In our estimation, this is a pretty small group. Idiosyncratic, in fact, in the face of the much larger group who would like to see their character appearance reflected by their biological family.

For those who still absolutely need to have every option just because-- that's what modding is for.

[David Gaider]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
That wasn't the only reason you might have wanted a different skin tone.  As I mentioned above, you might want the PC's skin tone to show that he's outdoorsy, or indoorsy, or sickly, or whatever else that might have a visible effect on his colouring.

I get the impression that you no longer expect your players to put any effort at all into their characters' backstories.

Effort? We provide a backstory for you already. If you wish to conjure a backstory in your head, and the game happily coincides with that-- awesome. If not, then that's too bad. DA2 isn't any more about you playing any character you can imagine than DAO was.

You don't always implement these features such that they are moddable.  For example, you couldn't mute just Shepard in ME, because the voices for a scene were all one file, so you could only mute the entire scene - not just one character.  Also, the change to how shattering worked in patch 1.03 for DAO was a change to how the engine functioned, so Lieutenants could no longer ever shatter under any circumstances.  There was no way to change that back with a mod.

If you think the skin tone matching is moddable, that's good news.

If it's not moddable, then you're SOL I suppose. For those who want a game to conform to their idiosyncratic preferences, however, that's their only option. We aren't here to accommodate idiosyncratic preferences when they conflict with the game we intend to make.

Modifié par David Gaider, 30 novembre 2010 - 07:54 .

[David Gaider]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But is DA2 less about that than DAO was?

No, DAO just coincidentally happened to interfere less with whatever imaginary game you're playing, Sylvius. We did not build DAO to make that possible, and arguing that we should make it possible even when it conflicts with what we're trying to make-- when the benefits were never intended in the first place-- is a bit lost on us. Sorry, not going to happen.

[David Gaider]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
During DAO's development you specifically told us that the game wouldn't decide for us how we felt about the details of our background.  And for the most part, DAO delivered on that promise.

And we're not telling you how to feel about your background here, either, but you do indeed have one.

If DA2 is not intended to allow us to determine Hawke's personality for ourselves, you might want to let us know.

Don't be obtuse. This has nothing to do with determining your personality. You're talking about whether or not you can "roleplay" a character that has a different skin tone than your family-- one thing has nothing to do with the other, so stop trying to imply they're the same thing.

I've told you where we stand. I'm not prepared to entertain this discussion further.