163 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But is DA2 less about that than DAO was?

No, DAO just coincidentally happened to interfere less with whatever imaginary game you're playing, Sylvius. We did not build DAO to make that possible, and arguing that we should make it possible even when it conflicts with what we're trying to make-- when the benefits were never intended in the first place-- is a bit lost on us. Sorry, not going to happen.

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But is DA2 less about that than DAO was?

No, DAO just coincidentally happened to interfere less with whatever imaginary game you're playing, Sylvius. We did not build DAO to make that possible, and arguing that we should make it possible even when it conflicts with what we're trying to make-- when the benefits were never intended in the first place-- is a bit lost on us. Sorry, not going to happen.

What about making it possible in DA3 to play quill-and-parchment sessions of "Imaginary Game by Sylvius the Mad" with our companions. They already have cards and other board games in Thedas by the looks of it...

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But is DA2 less about that than DAO was?

No, DAO just coincidentally happened to interfere less with whatever imaginary game you're playing, Sylvius. We did not build DAO to make that possible, and arguing that we should make it possible even when it conflicts with what we're trying to make-- when the benefits were never intended in the first place-- is a bit lost on us.

Regardless of whether the benefits were intended, they were there.  They're not valueless just because you didn't foresee their value.

I'd like your  future games to take a wider range of playstyles into account.  Your earlier games certainly accommodated them.

During DAO's development you specifically told us that the game wouldn't decide for us how we felt about the details of our background.  And for the most part, DAO delivered on that promise.  But if we're to play a coherent character, while at the same time populating his set of beliefs and preferences ourselves, then his backstory needs to be ours to command.

If DA2 is not intended to allow us to determine Hawke's personality for ourselves, you might want to let us know.

[MadLaughter]

Man, the condescension in this post rivals that of like ten other posts combined.

[Vicious]

I'd be snarky to such nitpicking too, frankly.

[David Gaider]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
During DAO's development you specifically told us that the game wouldn't decide for us how we felt about the details of our background.  And for the most part, DAO delivered on that promise.

And we're not telling you how to feel about your background here, either, but you do indeed have one.

If DA2 is not intended to allow us to determine Hawke's personality for ourselves, you might want to let us know.

Don't be obtuse. This has nothing to do with determining your personality. You're talking about whether or not you can "roleplay" a character that has a different skin tone than your family-- one thing has nothing to do with the other, so stop trying to imply they're the same thing.

I've told you where we stand. I'm not prepared to entertain this discussion further.

[DPB]

MadLaughter wrote...

Man, the condescension in this post rivals that of like ten other posts combined.

Hey, DG has been having these conversations with Sylvius since 2004. I think he's entitled to show exasperation now and again.

[Sylvius the Mad]

They're not the same thing, but they're related. Most features generate ambiguity create opportunities for roleplaying, while features that eliminate ambiguity typically limit roleplaying (and some of those are good things).

[Sylvius the Mad]

dbankier wrote...

Hey, DG has been having these conversations with Sylvius since 2004.

Try 1999.

I think we still agree more often than we don't.  We just don't have cause to engage each other on those topics.

[revan11exile]

Hey in fable 3 you can have 2 white parents and have black kids i found that VERY amusing

[Charsen]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I'd like your  future games to take a wider range of playstyles into account.  Your earlier games certainly accommodated them.

During DAO's development you specifically told us that the game wouldn't decide for us how we felt about the details of our background.  And for the most part, DAO delivered on that promise.  But if we're to play a coherent character, while at the same time populating his set of beliefs and preferences ourselves, then his backstory needs to be ours to command.

If DA2 is not intended to allow us to determine Hawke's personality for ourselves, you might want to let us know.

What if you play a 100 year old Warden, how come he has 60 year old parents? Why can't you play an Achondroplastic dwarf? Why can't you play a character whose legs were destroyed in a terrible riverdancing competition gone amuck? Why can't you play a Genlock raised by Elves? Why can't you play a Warden that caught a terrible elf disease that causes flowers to grow out of his nostrils? Why can't you play a character who grew up on a small island with only a toy ball with a bloody handprint face to talk to?

I mean, at some point you have to realize this isn't a table top game. It's not free form RP. You can't expect them to accommodate every wild background concept -- and yes, asking to have a skin color that is different from your biological parents is pretty wild and practically unwanted to everyone except, well, you.

The fact is, the vast majority of players who had dark skinned characters are thrilled with the fact that our next character will look like his parents. Because... That's sort of how it works, and that's what most of us want. They don't have infinite time to create a limitless world with every background imaginable.

If your entire enjoyment in a game depends on the skin color of your character's parents, then I don't know what to tell you. My Cousland was dark skinned and his parents weren't. I laughed and thought mama's got some explaining to do, and moved on with my life. 

Now... you can chin up, stuff your hands in your pockets and say, "alright, I'll just mod it for myself." Or you can continue bickering about a "feature" that almost no one wants and be forever lost to trolling. If you do end up trying to mod the game to accommodate your unique background, there will be more than enough people in the toolset forum that will assist you when the time comes. 

[Darkhour]

Inzhuna wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

What you see on the map is all of Thedas. Not all of the world, but all of Thedas. 

But Thedas is the world. It's the name of the world in which events of DA franchise take place. TheDAS = The Dragon Age Setting.
At least that's how I understand it.
If they introduce new never-before-seen territories, it will be new parts of Thedas.

From the codex:


"Thedas is bounded to the east is the Amaranthine Ocean, to the west by the Trishan and the Hunterhorn Mountains, to the south by the snowy wastes that lie beyond the Korcari Wilds, and to the north by the Donarks.
 
The word "Thedas" is Tevinter in origin, originally used to refer to lands that bordered the Imperium. As the Imperium lost its stranglehold on conquered nations, more and more lands became Thedas, until finally the name came to apply to the entire continent.
 
...

There must be other lands, continents, or islands, perhaps across the Amaranthine or north of Par Vollen, for the Qunari arrived in Thedas from somewhere, but beyond that deduction we know nothing. The idea that "the world" consists solely of the lands we know about will one day be disproved, and no doubt much to our collective dismay.
 
--From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar, by Brother Genitivi.[/i]"

Modifié par Darkhour, 30 novembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Harid]

As a black paying customer, this is one of the few positive things I like about DA2, and I hope they keep it in mind for the rest of their games going forward.



Video games don't have minority leads right now due to cross culture appeal with the lowest common denominator, and minorities that want to play people that look like themselves have been largely SOL. I don't give a **** about roleplayers with this move. Keep it up, Bioware.

[Annihilator27]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

dbankier wrote...

Hey, DG has been having these conversations with Sylvius since 2004.

Try 1999.

I think we still agree more often than we don't.  We just don't have cause to engage each other on those topics.

You two are like a married old couple lol.

[HighMoon]

"David and Sylvius are like an old married couple. I keep expecting to walk in on them arguing about the temperature in the c*ck pit."

Modifié par Golden-Rose, 01 décembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[test for echo]

Charsen wrote...

What if you play a 100 year old Warden, how come he has 60 year old parents? Why can't you play an Achondroplastic dwarf? Why can't you play a character whose legs were destroyed in a terrible riverdancing competition gone amuck? Why can't you play a Genlock raised by Elves? Why can't you play a Warden that caught a terrible elf disease that causes flowers to grow out of his nostrils? Why can't you play a character who grew up on a small island with only a toy ball with a bloody handprint face to talk to?

I have to admit, this paragraph made me laugh a lot more than it should have. (And Cast Away -- love that movie! )

In any case, on a more on-topic note, I very much agree with your stance. I'm thrilled that BioWare decided to implement this particular mechanic. I'm curious to see how choices made regarding skin color and what have you affect the degree to which your family's appearance is altered.

[The Red Menace]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
During DAO's development you specifically told us that the game wouldn't decide for us how we felt about the details of our background.  And for the most part, DAO delivered on that promise.

And we're not telling you how to feel about your background here, either, but you do indeed have one.

If DA2 is not intended to allow us to determine Hawke's personality for ourselves, you might want to let us know.

Don't be obtuse. This has nothing to do with determining your personality. You're talking about whether or not you can "roleplay" a character that has a different skin tone than your family-- one thing has nothing to do with the other, so stop trying to imply they're the same thing.

I've told you where we stand. I'm not prepared to entertain this discussion further.

So you don't think that giving voice to the protagonist would limit our choices about how we role-play our characters, ignoring for the moment that the number of dialog choices will inevitably be smaller, if not due to the cost of VA work for all the options, then simply because they won't fit on the new dialog-wheel?

[Boombox]

Golden-Rose wrote...

"David and Sylvius are like an old married couple. I keep expecting to walk in on them arguing about the temperature in the c*ck pit."

LOL.

[Trintrin86]

Lemme get this straight...



People are b*tching because they can't customize their party's armor...and here there's b*tching because the personal, customized physical design of Hawke can impact the skin/facial features of potentially THREE separate characters, thereby CUSTOMIZING YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY TO FIT YOUR CUSTOM HAWKE!?



If I ever meet you devs in person I'm buying you all a round of drinks...maybe several...geeze.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Charsen wrote...

What if you play a 100 year old Warden, how come he has 60 year old parents? Why can't you play an Achondroplastic dwarf? Why can't you play a character whose legs were destroyed in a terrible riverdancing competition gone amuck? Why can't you play a Genlock raised by Elves? Why can't you play a Warden that caught a terrible elf disease that causes flowers to grow out of his nostrils? Why can't you play a character who grew up on a small island with only a toy ball with a bloody handprint face to talk to?

I mean, at some point you have to realize this isn't a table top game. It's not free form RP. You can't expect them to accommodate every wild background concept -- and yes, asking to have a skin color that is different from your biological parents is pretty wild and practically unwanted to everyone except, well, you.

Sure, there have to be limits.  But accepting that is not the same as declaring every limit acceptable.

Having fewer limits is, I think, generally a good thing, and I'm going to keep arguing for that.  Especially when limits are being added for no apparent benefit.

The fact is, the vast majority of players who had dark skinned characters are thrilled with the fact that our next character will look like his parents.

That's completely beside the point.  That people keep bringing this up astounds me.  How is that at all relevant to my point?

Forcing a matching skin-tone on us isn't any worse than forcing a non-matching skin-tone on us.  Though, of course, DAO didn't do that - DAO did allow you to create a character with a matching skin tone if you wanted.  You just couldn't create any skin tone you wanted and have it match.

DAO let you have a matching skin tone.  DAO let you have whatever skin tone you wanted.  You just couldn't have them both at the same time.  The change in DA2 is to permit that specific combination of desires,
but at the cost of losing a single other specific option (non-matching
skin tones).

If your entire enjoyment in a game depends on the skin color of your character's parents, then I don't know what to tell you.

My entire enjoyment of the game relies on my ability to create a detailed character and have the game accommodate him.  This change removes one specific option without adding another to replace it.

[ErichHartmann]

The game won't let me customize every part of the body yet has little bearing on my overall enjoyment. Go figure.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 01 décembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[cmathews03]

Trintrin86 wrote...

Lemme get this straight...

People are b*tching because they can't customize their party's armor...and here there's b*tching because the personal, customized physical design of Hawke can impact the skin/facial features of potentially THREE separate characters, thereby CUSTOMIZING YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY TO FIT YOUR CUSTOM HAWKE!?

If I ever meet you devs in person I'm buying you all a round of drinks...maybe several...geeze.

[The Masked Rog]

My entire enjoyment of the game relies on my ability to create a detailed character and have the game accommodate him. This change removes one specific option without adding another to replace it.

Doesn't it add the chance of being a dark skinned biological son?

[Rykoth]

Sylvius,wake up FFS.



You can't have a different skin tone from your family, get over it. You know why? Because even in DAO, how babies are made are still the same as our world.



That means, two white parents will not produce a black baby. End of story. Two black parents will not produce a white baby. End of story. Get over it.

[nightcobra]

Rykoth wrote...

Sylvius,wake up FFS.

You can't have a different skin tone from your family, get over it. You know why? Because even in DAO, how babies are made are still the same as our world.

That means, two white parents will not produce a black baby. End of story. Two black parents will not produce a white baby. End of story. Get over it.

not quite true though, two white parents can have a black baby and vice versa.