48 réponses à ce sujet

[Craka_Rob]

 well iv been reading around, not on these fourms but just random posts about people saying rogue archers are a loss to the group because of low damage and what not, but when i play one id actually consider it my favorite character, i find utility and CC as well as in DAOA even some aoe, just wondering on what others feeling are.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Low damage? Maybe compared to the massive area damage spells mages can toss out, but Leliana has been a regular part of most of my games and it hasn't been just for lock-picking duties. Good crowd control with scattershot, and there tends to be dozens of times she dropped a targets before a warrior could get to it. Even when it was at full health.

Yes, there are faults in how Origins made archers work, (Talents taking almost enough time to fire three-four auto attacks being the greatest failing) but they can a do contribute a good chunk of the party damage that a nuker mage doesn't account for. (And significantly less injuries doing so.)

[Elhanan]

Plus no Friendly Fire issues until Awakenings talents.

The gripe I see most often is over RoF, but that seems to be due to comparing Archers with DW dagger wielders. By adding a Rapid Aim item or more, this problem vanishes for me, plus I like the possible variety in play as opposed to the auto-attack routine.

My first 250+ dmg achievement was with a Rogue archer, so they will stay dear to my PG/RP heart.

[Ferretinabun]

Archery has got a bad rep in Origins. It's generally considered to be one of the least powerful builds of the game. And while there may be some basis for this belief, that's not to say it isn't a viable option for a player.

I'm currently doing an all-archer party playthrough. I'm only just reached level 8, but I want to have myself (Dalish rogue, archer built, Ranger/Bard), Leliana (archer build Bard/Ranger), Zevran (archer build, Assasin/not decided yet) and Shale with Rock Mastery tearing up Ferelden. So far it's fun and perfectly viable. And most importantly, I'm actually learning how to build an archer, rather than just giving Leliana talents practically by random until she gets Arrow of Slaying and Scattershot.

If anyone says archers are low damage, show them this:



Flemeth. Nightmare. No mods. Watch those massive numbers fly!

[Beaner28]

Ferretinabun wrote...

Archery has got a bad rep in Origins. It's generally considered to be one of the least powerful builds of the game. And while there may be some basis for this belief, that's not to say it isn't a viable option for a player.

I'm currently doing an all-archer party playthrough. I'm only just reached level 8, but I want to have myself (Dalish rogue, archer built, Ranger/Bard), Leliana (archer build Bard/Ranger), Zevran (archer build, Assasin/not decided yet) and Shale with Rock Mastery tearing up Ferelden. So far it's fun and perfectly viable. And most importantly, I'm actually learning how to build an archer, rather than just giving Leliana talents practically by random until she gets Arrow of Slaying and Scattershot.

If anyone says archers are low damage, show them this:


Flemeth. Nightmare. No mods. Watch those massive numbers fly!

Holy hell...that is unbelievable.

Modifié par Beaner28, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:13 .

[Zjarcal]

Heh, I have never fought Flemeth at anything past level 15 so I never had a chance to own her so spectacularly!



Archery is a perfectly viable option in Origins. It's true that during the early game you will suffer from a terrible hit rate (especially rogues), but once you get a decent attack score, you'll be as deadly as any other build.



Probably the best example of how kickass a well built archer can be was in my last run when my PC dueled Loghain at the Landsmeet. She was a ranger/duelist with all the archery talents. Turned on defensive fire (+30 defense once you have Master Archer) and Suppressing Fire (10 second penalty attack of -7.5 for the enemy with each arrow that hits), started with a shattering shot on Loghain (-10 penalty to armor), followed with a crippling shot (-10 attack and defense penalty), then an arrow of slaying, entered stealth a few times to deal automatic critical hits...



To make a long story short, Loghain could not deal a single blow on my PC during the entire duel due to her high defense (thanks to defensive fire) and all the penalties he had to deal with from the archery talents.



A properly built archer can be DEADLY. Bard, Ranger, and Duelist are the specs I recommend for an archer build. Bard for the Song of Courage bonus (especially on cunning builds), Ranger so that you can have a pet that can distract enemies as you kill them from afar, and Duelist for the attack and defense bonus, especially the attack bonus on cunning builds.



Assassin is the one spec that really doesn't go well with Archery, which is why it was so frustrating that Nate was built as an archer in Awakening.

[termokanden]

I would have loved archery if only the special attacks were faster. That's the part I consider weak about it. The damage can be OK. In Awakening of course, the damage is completely over the top.



But there's no question that it's viable.

[freddfx]

Ferretinabun wrote...

Archery has got a bad rep in Origins. It's generally considered to be one of the least powerful builds of the game. And while there may be some basis for this belief, that's not to say it isn't a viable option for a player.
I'm currently doing an all-archer party playthrough. I'm only just reached level 8, but I want to have myself (Dalish rogue, archer built, Ranger/Bard), Leliana (archer build Bard/Ranger), Zevran (archer build, Assasin/not decided yet) and Shale with Rock Mastery tearing up Ferelden. So far it's fun and perfectly viable. And most importantly, I'm actually learning how to build an archer, rather than just giving Leliana talents practically by random until she gets Arrow of Slaying and Scattershot.
If anyone says archers are low damage, show them this:

Flemeth. Nightmare. No mods. Watch those massive numbers fly!

No mods, true...  but that relies upon a glitch with Shale's rock mastery doubling the crit chance bonus. and that only stays consistent if you stay within the aura while... move outside the aura and back in your crit chance will be different... different as in lower. 

I enjoyed playing as an archer for maybe... 13 hours in but its hard to feel badass doing chip damage all the time. you really just put yourself into support status with being an archer. Awakenings is a different story... you turn into a freaking 1-shot sniper with regular hits... and you'll feel badass as an archer

UNTIL

you get to Golems of Amgarrak... and feel weak again because golems are immune to crits and you'll be back to chip damage. 

Just to add... 
As for those one time highs with arrow of slaying... that seems nice and all but... it doesn't really mean anything overall to me, consistent damage is what's important. AoS is only useful once per fight... use it on a boss and all you'd be doing is drawing agro...

Anyone take out Ser Cauthrien as an Archer yet?

Modifié par freddfx, 28 novembre 2010 - 10:07 .

[cJohnOne]

I won't be playing another Archer for quite awhile yet but I really enjoy archery. The choices between four specializations is nice too. I meant for playing the PC archer and not Leliana as an archer.



As to whether or not it is viable, I suspect that Archery is comparatively less viable but fun.

[cJohnOne]

Defensive fire and supressing fire against Loghain, I'll remember that. I hope it works.

[Zjarcal]

I don't understand why some people suggest that archers do "chip damage". On my last run as an archer my PC did about 40% of the party damage, certainly not "chip damage". It's true that you can make more damage as a mage or a DW, but my point is that archers can do excellent damage themselves.



As for taking down Cauthrien as an archer, do you mean playing a solo archer or just playing an archer? If it's the latter, yes, I have taken her down as an archer.

[mousestalker]

Archery feels a bit underpowered in Origins, but then overcompensates for that in Awakening. My archer in Awakening was never really sure why she had companions.

[termokanden]

Zjarcal wrote...

I don't understand why some people suggest that archers do "chip damage". On my last run as an archer my PC did about 40% of the party damage, certainly not "chip damage". It's true that you can make more damage as a mage or a DW, but my point is that archers can do excellent damage themselves.

That's not a good measure of how much damage you did. What I'm looking for is something like "damage per second". If you give your party members good builds and gear, they will do better and lower your contribution to the damage total, but that doesn't mean you're doing a worse job at all. My first runs I had 70-80% on my main character, but lately it has dropped because I focus more on my party members.

Modifié par termokanden, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[Zjarcal]

Well I'm not crazy enough to actually measure my DPS, but enemies were dropping down just as fast as when I was playing a DPS oriented DW. And all my party members were properly equipped. In fact they were wearing better gear than my PC since I had a theme for her to stick with nothing but elven equipment.



I will say this, during the first portion of the game (Origin, Ostagar, and Lothering), playing an archer is highly frustrating due to the accuracy issue, since your attack score is SOOO low. Once you solve your attack score issues, things are just fine.

[Realranger55]

Archery is perfectly viable, look for rapid aim and +crit gear and before you even hit lvl 14 you will be autocriting every shot with a very respectable rof. The thing is with an Archer is its most effective when built right and auto-attacking, so aside from arrow of slaying and scattershot dont expect to be using to many abilities.

As for Ser Cauthrien, my last party had 3 archers and she was dead before she even reached us.

Modifié par Realranger55, 28 novembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[Realranger55]

Also the chip dmg thing is way offbase, with a pc archer i believe the dps in any given fight is comparable to a dw rogue, for the fact that you dont spend any time chasing targets and trying to position behind them. As soon as a fight starts my archer is ripping into people (80dmg+) every autoshot and with a couple pieces of rapid aim he is firing them off at a good clip, my archer will normally have a couple kills before anyone else in my party is into position

[Craka_Rob]

im level 14 on my 1st playthrough as an archer now, i definitly see myself as a utility in many ways, but im also dealing 40% of my groups damage, and thats with sten with allmost 60 str and using cailins armor and starfang for a weapon, although i havnt gotten to give him reaver or beserker yet, i find the damage is fine, and the attacks do seem slow when you use skills, i also have alot of stamina problems, but im fixing that with superior dragonskin armor lol. i also notice how well archery scales with crit however, but unlike most of you im stacking more towards crit damage and dex because i think dex increases crit, not sure on that, and i crit often as well as i use critical shot alot, so those are big potions of my damage.

[Realranger55]

the best way to stack crit is actually with a Cunning rogue and song of courage, start stacking song of courage with multiple rogues and you can easily hit 100% crit in origins... honestly talents arent needed for a solid built archer, my pc never got AoS till around lvl 18 and i hardly ever used any talents. Attack speed with rapid aim gear is so much quicker then the attack speed of a used talent that its hard to recommmend, especially when every auto attack starts to crit. Also maxing combat stealth and using it whenver its off cd for the auto crit is a better option then using the Crit talent.

Modifié par Realranger55, 28 novembre 2010 - 09:19 .

[freddfx]

Craka_Rob wrote...

im level 14 on my 1st playthrough as an archer now, i definitly see myself as a utility in many ways, but im also dealing 40% of my groups damage, and thats with sten with allmost 60 str and using cailins armor and starfang for a weapon, although i havnt gotten to give him reaver or beserker yet, i find the damage is fine, and the attacks do seem slow when you use skills, i also have alot of stamina problems, but im fixing that with superior dragonskin armor lol. i also notice how well archery scales with crit however, but unlike most of you im stacking more towards crit damage and dex because i think dex increases crit, not sure on that, and i crit often as well as i use critical shot alot, so those are big potions of my damage.

DEX does not increase crit chance... at all, i know lethality adds 10% and song of courage will add to crit chance based on your CUN for rogues, and then precise striking and bravery for warriors

[Elhanan]

DEX may aid Accuracy in later play, I seem to recall.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Extremely viable. Rapid Aim, Crit gear, a good bow and you got a superb damage dealer.

[Kajan451]

I played my first DA:O Playthrough (when it fresh came out) as Rogue skilled at Archery... and now that i bought my own version of DA:O Ultimate Edition (since i broke up with that girlfriend who owned the other DA:O copy) i played another round at Rogue + Archery.... and i love it. Yes the damage is low for the first 10something levels. It all depends on when you find the Spearthrower bow and the Gloves with give extra rapid fire (Not sure if rapidfire of Bow and gloves stack, but i think they do) and the Master Archer Talent... i kind of breezed through DA:O my Warden contributing (assuming the herostats in the char screen are alight) almost 40% to the Party damage.

Of course it doesn't do as much damage as Dualblades, mind you... But when i started the Witch Hunt DLC and got access to the Awakening Archery Talents..... i keep racking up Hits of 150+ Damage on Autofire. I haven't tried the advanced versions of the other combat skills, mind you... but Autodamage of 150+ is pretty impresive to me. Two hits to 3 Hits and a level 25 Grunt is hitting the ground. The Arrow of Slaying hit a target for 850 Damage just yesterday, which kind of freaked me out a little. Unfortunately that kind of damage is kind of overkill... since Elites and higher do only seem to get hit by 50% (Elites) / 25% (Bosses) of that amount... its like only 400 tops vs a normal enemy. Though i also will admit i am currently just playing on normal with that character.

Dex plays a large role in the Advanced Awakening talents... and in being able to equipt the good bows. My personal favorit is the Spearthrower (without the DLC stuff).

Zjarcal wrote...

Assassin is the one spec that really doesn't go well with Archery, which is why it was so frustrating that Nate was built as an archer in Awakening.

Actually i am using the Assassin Spec... its not much use longrange, but since i do have a mixed group of Tank, 2 DD and a Mage (support and debuff focused) i am not really standing at very long ranges... using the Mark of Assassin, which is kind of long-short or short-medium range... does allow to add some extra damage with the arrows. Thanks to the setup i am usually fighting at Midrange anyway.

Of course the other 3 talents are a waste.. but so are the Bards other 3 talents. (Besides... it never hurts to have some melee skills with your archer. Killing an Ogre or a Dragon with an Arrow isn't as spetectular as if you swap to your melee weapons in the last moment and deliver the killing blow in cinematic fashion to show off (and the warm fussy feeling) )


But i love my Archery Rogues.

Modifié par Kajan451, 29 novembre 2010 - 01:18 .

[Tigress M]

Elhanan wrote...
Plus no Friendly Fire issues until Awakenings talents.
The gripe I see most often is over RoF, but that seems to be due to comparing Archers with DW dagger wielders. By adding a Rapid Aim item or more, this problem vanishes for me, plus I like the possible variety in play as opposed to the auto-attack routine.
My first 250+ dmg achievement was with a Rogue archer, so they will stay dear to my PG/RP heart.

That was me with an Arrow of Slaying.  I guess that's why it's still my favorite skill.  And speaking of damage, my jaw hit the floor the other day while playing Awakening when I did a 9830 AoS crit!  

[DWSmiley]

I didn't read the description of Burst Shot closely enough my first Awakenings playthrough.  I went the whole way not realizing who or what was causing the intermittent 200 points of damage to everyone - Nate, you rascal!  Though it did put a bit of challenge into the campaign.

[Zy-El]

In Origins, my Archer always felt like a quarterback directing the shots while Alistair, Sten and the summoned Bear were the blockers in front of me. Of course, once the pocket collapses during a Darkspawn blitz, it was time to draw the daggers and go poison/melee.

Modifié par Zy-El, 01 décembre 2010 - 09:57 .